Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[-ACE-]

Sometimes I wish I could hear what commentators on stream are saying so I can prove they know nothing about Ganon.

I have had SO MANY lulz over the years over Ganon commentary. Even really high level players. Ganon knowledge is far from common knowledge, fortunately for us.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

Every time I hear commentators talk about Ganon I just and wait to laugh at they comments xD

 

[F. Stein]

Meh, some of the commentators in my area piss me off. A few of them think that I shouldn't be maining Ganon and that I should play a top tier instead. #HateMarthCommentators

 

[-ACE-]

Meh, some of the commentators in my area piss me off. A few of them think that I shouldn't be maining Ganon and that I should play a top tier instead. #HateMarthCommentators

Wish I could fly in just to play that guy LOL

 

[Swagic]

Master the Marth mu and be the one that makes sure they do nothing but comment the entire tourney

 

[BraveGrunt]

abcdefghij

 

[Bwmat]

a couple of weeks ago some guy came onto the stream chat and was saying I should just play fox lol, was complaining that ganon was cheese rolf. Probably some guy from the local community who was butthurt about losing to my cheese.

 

[Bwmat]

Does anyone here know if Ganondorf's "jab" reset (the weak hit of uair) has ever been used in a match before? I'm trying to figure out if it can even be used reliably without TAS precision.

I've done it by accident and then jabbed them before I think, but never intentionally.

 

[Swagic]

Does anyone here know if Ganondorf's "jab" reset (the weak hit of uair) has ever been used in a match before? I'm trying to figure out if it can even be used reliably without TAS precision.

Because it's such a weird setup for it (reverse uair, seriously Sakurai?), there are VERY few things that would really work well with it.

WAIT- theorycrafting time- jab reset dair?

 

[Coastward]

why are there so many people looking at the thread right now LOL

 

[BraveGrunt]

abcdefghij

 

[Swagic]

Double theorycrafting time: jab reset -> downsmash?

I just tested it out. Jab reset -> downsmash is no longer theory. It is fact.

I don't have a setup to test jab-reset dair on right now, but if the minimum frame for jab reset is 12 getup, then reset -> dj -> dair should work, which means double dair, which means another techchase, which is an easy stock if they've already missed one tech.

Back to reality, why jab reset if you can just dair the missed tech in the first place? Besides style points.

Oh, and Coastward I'm reading it because I'm on page like 455 of 620 now and I'm not giving up. Coincidentally, this time almost exactly a year ago, jab resets and jab cancelling came up again.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

The worst isn't the commentators tbh. It's the people in the background that will just spread blatantly false info about Ganon. I heard someone last week while watching me play a set tell his friend that Ganon's only approach option is fair. And when I started chaingrabbing, he told his friend it was just a DI mixup....smh.

 

[BraveGrunt]

abcdefghij

 

[Swagic]

Dairing might not allow for a followup if they're at high enough percent.

Other than that, yeah this is probably useless.

That never stopped any of us. If we wanted to make the objectively optimal choices, we'd play a better character.

Actually, dsmash may actually be useful. If someone knows the knockback formula, dsmash has 60 base and 110 scaling, the highest scaling factor of any of Ganon's moves. There will be a point (if I had to guess, ~85% or so) where dsmash will have more kb than fair.

Edit: and in the span of about five minutes, we go from 6 members and 5 guests to... Me. And a guest.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Dairing might not allow for a followup if they're at high enough percent.

Other than that, yeah this is probably useless.

Yeah but at those percents you could just punish missed tech with fair and put them offstage or end the stock.

If you could do dair out of uair reset, I'd say it's worthwhile cause you get more percent. But I doubt you can do that, so it's probably not very good. Cool that it works, though.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

That never stopped any of us. If we wanted to make the objectively optimal choices, we'd play a better character.

Actually, dsmash may actually be useful. If someone knows the knockback formula, dsmash has 60 base and 110 scaling, the highest scaling factor of any of Ganon's moves. There will be a point (if I had to guess, ~85% or so) where dsmash will have more kb than fair.

Edit: and in the span of about five minutes, we go from 6 members and 5 guests to... Me. And a guest.

True, but the kb of the second hit will send people at a more vertical trajectory than fair. Unless you know the percent it will kill off the top, fair is the better choice.

What do you guys think of jab reset usmash? If you did the uair right on top of them, you could get the crotch hitbox, maybe even double hit depending on DI. Probably would rarely happen, if it's even possible, but it would be sick.

 

[Swagic]

True, but the kb of the second hit will send people at a more vertical trajectory than fair. Unless you know the percent it will kill off the top, fair is the better choice.

What do you guys think of jab reset usmash? If you did the uair right on top of them, you could get the crotch hitbox, maybe even double hit depending on DI. Probably would rarely happen, if it's even possible, but it would be sick.

You'd probably have to be frame perfect on that one to get just the first hit. If it worked, it would be GREAT, but... I'm not liking those odds. You'd have to pivot into it, too.

Edit: double checking frame count, I'm going to have to test dsmash for myself.

 

[F. Stein]

o.o Jab reset to a true combo of Dair to dair? Rinse, wash, repeat?

 

[Linguini]

Pretty sure tipman warlock punched chillin in teams while recovering high on rainbow cruise back in the day lol. too bad it got deleted

 

[-ACE-]

Pretty sure tipman warlock punched chillin in teams while recovering high on rainbow cruise back in the day lol. too bad it got deleted

I think I've seen that. I have a feeling it could still exist

 

[Swagic]

o.o Jab reset to a true combo of Dair to dair? Rinse, wash, repeat?

After no DI missed tech, or really any missed tech.

The only thing is that preparing the jab resets will take some practice, because ours are MUCH harder than anyone else's.

 

[Swagic]

Just came up with a potential game changer in the fox mu, that everyone should at least have heard by now-

Fox usmash isn't safe on shield. Sheild-wavedash oos in-grab-cg-death.

Only works once, and won't work this time next year.

 

[-ACE-]

Just came up with a potential game changer in the fox mu, that everyone should at least have heard by now-

Fox usmash isn't safe on shield. Sheild-wavedash oos in-grab-cg-death.

Only works once, and won't work this time next year.

It's known but I'm not consistent at all with it yet. It's a tighter window than Marth fsmash.

Been looking at cubes on ebay, I feel like grinding wd OoS right now lol

 

[Swagic]

Here's a question- I know playing on an LCD will build up some input lage. But does dolphin?

 

[Waldoring]

Dolphin itself won't give you input lag if you have it configured properly (fullscreen, settings as recommended in most guides). Depending on the latency of your monitor (some LCDs are better than others; CRTs are the best), you may have no input lag at all. I have a CRT and can attest that it's about the same as playing on a cube.

Dolphin is great just because of how easy it is to set up 20XX on it, the better quality video is good too.

 

[Oldiz]

Any other ganons going to beast 6?
I'm seeded 3rd in my pool and have 2 falcos above me, as well as a almost even ranked 4th seed marth. I really don't have that much experience vs marth, so any advice would be appreciated.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Just came up with a potential game changer in the fox mu, that everyone should at least have heard by now-

Fox usmash isn't safe on shield. Sheild-wavedash oos in-grab-cg-death.

Only works once, and won't work this time next year.

Won't work next year? What? Wd oos to jab is guaranteed and grab is a mixup.

I literally used this three days ago against someone who I play a lot against.

He's used to my style, he up smashed the back of my shield, and he expected the wd oos into pivot jab (guaranteed and my usual follow up), but I read his shield and just grabbed instead. It's a great mixup and because you have a guaranteed follow up, it'll be around next year and the year after.

 

[Swagic]

Won't work next year? What? Wd oos to jab is guaranteed and grab is a mixup.

I literally used this three days ago against someone who I play a lot against.

He's used to my style, he up smashed the back of my shield, and he expected the wd oos into pivot jab (guaranteed and my usual follow up), but I read his shield and just grabbed instead. It's a great mixup and because you have a guaranteed follow up, it'll be around next year and the year after.

Oh, I just mean that they'll start to realize it's not safe on shield.

 

[SwiftNinjaBlackMan]

http://gfycat.com/BabyishFaithfulBlackfootedferret

Can get out of the jab reset like that?( and if he can will the skull crusher come out fast enough?)

 

[Coastward]

http://gfycat.com/BabyishFaithfulBlackfootedferret

Can get out of the jab reset like that?( and if he can will the skull crusher come out fast enough?)

that was druggedfox ****ing up the jab i think.

 

[Oldiz]

badly timed jab + smash di, should be possible for anyone

 

[-ACE-]

http://gfycat.com/BabyishFaithfulBlackfootedferret

Can get out of the jab reset like that?( and if he can will the skull crusher come out fast enough?)

My guess is 1 SDI input up at the absolute peak of the bounce your character does on a missed tech. Ganon doesn't really get jab reset by sheik much because of Ganon's floatiness... Straight combos out of dthrow instead.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

What do you guys think of wd oos stomp to punish fox usmash on shield? The idea is to punish spot dodge after you've conditioned with wd oos grab.

 

[-ACE-]

What do you guys think of wd oos stomp to punish fox usmash on shield? The idea is to punish spot dodge after you've conditioned with wd oos grab.

I feel like the first time I tried that, with my luck, I'd just get upsmashed LOL

 

[Divinokage]

What do you guys think of wd oos stomp to punish fox usmash on shield? The idea is to punish spot dodge after you've conditioned with wd oos grab.

Good Foxes will always see that coming, it's slow. All they need to do is shield then you're ****ed. Not a good situation to use Dair. But you can go for the shield stab then mayyybbeee... lol

 

[-ACE-]

Good Foxes will always see that coming, it's slow. All they need to do is shield then you're ****ed. Not a good situation to use Dair. But you can go for the shield stab then mayyybbeee... lol

Lol yeah mayyyybbeee haha. Spot dodge shine :/

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Good Foxes will always see that coming, it's slow. All they need to do is shield then you're ****ed. Not a good situation to use Dair. But you can go for the shield stab then mayyybbeee... lol

What would you do to punish spot dodge in that situation then? This is assuming you have the read they will buffer spot dodge after usmashing your shield.

 

[Oldiz]

Wait then grab? We all know grab equals death vs spacies...

Also, is it viable to reaction techchase on platforms? Ganons dthrow sends behind while uthrow mostly forward, so you can kinda trap them on the platform. I'm talking about low percents of course.

 

[-ACE-]

X WaNtEd X I think kage's main point is the higher the level of play, the less spot dodges you see generally.

O Oldiz you can absolutely uair anything on reaction, from the ground (react fast af) or perfectly space a sh and dj uair on reaction, depending on the situation. You could also backwards jump NIL grab in some situations, it's crazy fast.