Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Divinokage]

What would you do to punish spot dodge in that situation then? This is assuming you have the read they will buffer spot dodge after usmashing your shield.

Pivot bair or back jump Fair usually can punish that without committing too hard.

X WaNtEd X I think kage's main point is the higher the level of play, the less spot dodges you see generally.

Well.. everyone has tendencies, I normally classify someone in different pieces usually. If someone likes to use a defensive option after getting hit then i try to cover those options until he's able to adapt to it for example. Patterns normally always change during the match too so its hard to give a clear cut explanation.

 

[spider_sense]

I used to have major problems with the spot dodge shine, but it's actually possible to grab fox the frame after his invincibility. You can either wait for the "ootah" then grab immediately after or dash attack.

 

[Divinokage]

I used to have major problems with the spot dodge shine, but it's actually possible to grab fox the frame after his invincibility. You can either wait for the "ootah" then grab immediately after or dash attack.

Ya you can actually react to the spot dodge and do a move fast enough to punish it before the recovery happens. It takes some practice but it's kinda in the same difficulty level as punishing no tech every time you see it. The people need to use visual and sound cues. =)

 

[spider_sense]

Ya you can actually react to the spot dodge and do a move fast enough to punish it before the recovery happens. It takes some practice but it's kinda in the same difficulty level as punishing no tech every time you see it. The people need to use visual and sound cues. =)

Brah I NEED my sound cues; Ace has to turn the T.V down cause its too loud as I wait for him to go to the bathroom to turn it back up, while he comes out to turn it back down. It's a never ending struggle. xD

 

[-ACE-]

Bruh I use sound too, you trying to blow a speaker LOL

 

[Diosama]

Any other ganons going to beast 6?
I'm seeded 3rd in my pool and have 2 falcos above me, as well as a almost even ranked 4th seed marth. I really don't have that much experience vs marth, so any advice would be appreciated.

bair is really good against a lot of his aerials, save for fair, which your upair beats
ALWAYS wd oos to punish his fsmash
Tech the walls when recovering or you're donezo
Waveland ftilt is pretty good
cc his approaches at low %
Use invincible eikeldrop/ledge hop upair to edgeguard against his up b
Stomp -> at 0% works
dthrow -> bair/upair is guaranteed all the time

 

[spider_sense]

Ppl still calling it the eikeldrop. lmao

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I don't like stomping to punish spot dodge tbh. I still do, but dsmash is just so much safer / better. It's safer because you won't get grabbed or shined if you mis-time or misread the spot dodge.

And it's better because it covers roll behind as well as opposed to just spot dodge.

Not that you can do this out of shield, just wanted to get it out there.

Edit: I love spacies who buffer spot dodge after tech roll.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Ppl still calling it the eikeldrop. lmao

maybe if you traveled more and used all of your cool tech stuff then people would name things after you too ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

an update, btw. finally got to play the other 2 of the top 4 in my new home state. beat our resident falcon guy 3-0, not even close. then got to grand finals and played vs second best player in our state, sheik player. we've played extensively before so he understands the ganondorf matchup.

first set, decide to say **** playing to learn, go ganondorf. 3-0 with only game 3 being kinda close. decide okay, i played to win, time to play to learn and use falco.

falco vs sheik, i lost 3-2. WHY IS SHEIK VS FALCO HARDER FOR ME UGH this **** sucks.

 

[-ACE-]

Falco? Lol.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

A falco literally cc'd the second hit of my dsmash and then punished me for it tonight. So watch the percent you dsmash at. It can be pretty unsafe.

I'm just gonna use bair/fair to punish it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm really feeling ****ty about Melee. As my tech improves, my placings get worse. I expected to get a little worse for a bit in exchange for working on everything I wanted in my game. But it's starting to really hurt. Putting in all this work for pretty much no results so far really pisses me off.

 

[Divinokage]

A falco literally cc'd the second hit of my dsmash and then punished me for it tonight. So watch the percent you dsmash at. It can be pretty unsafe.

I'm just gonna use bair/fair to punish it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm really feeling ****ty about Melee. As my tech improves, my placings get worse. I expected to get a little worse for a bit in exchange for working on everything I wanted in my game. But it's starting to really hurt. Putting in all this work for pretty much no results so far really pisses me off.

Tech skill is about executing, dont forget to read what the opponent is doing.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Grim, I wouldn't sweat it. Whenever you learn new tech / strats, you have to condition yourself when to use these things. For me, it typically takes about a week of heavy play time before I implement new tech / strats well.

 

[-ACE-]

A falco literally cc'd the second hit of my dsmash and then punished me for it tonight. So watch the percent you dsmash at. It can be pretty unsafe.

Was it spaced? What percent? Second hit is much harder to punish compared to first hit. I was under the impression that if the second hit is spaced it's at least relatively safe.

 

[Swagic]

Would anybody (Ace?) be up to make an actual matchup guide? We have the old "Ganon Vs." which is nice, but really not in-depth at all. It'd be a LOT easier to consult that than to have to try to dig through this mess to find the relevant mu. just a thought.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

A falco literally cc'd the second hit of my dsmash and then punished me for it tonight. So watch the percent you dsmash at. It can be pretty unsafe.

I'm just gonna use bair/fair to punish it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm really feeling ****ty about Melee. As my tech improves, my placings get worse. I expected to get a little worse for a bit in exchange for working on everything I wanted in my game. But it's starting to really hurt. Putting in all this work for pretty much no results so far really pisses me off.

The Falco must have been crouching behind you waiting to get hit for that to work, cause I know ASDI down alone doesn't prevent the second hit of downsmash from knocking down.

My tech is getting better too but I'm not placing any better. I didn't know whether to think that I was hitting a plateau or that everyone around me was just getting better, but in the end none of that really matters, cause all that matters is that you are getting better in something. You don't need results to make yourself feel good about the game. What if you win a super close set with someone cause they SDed their last stock? I wouldn't feel too great about that but hey that means I got 5th instead of 7th.

It all boils down to what aspects of yourself that you focus on. There are positive aspects and negative aspects about yourself and I used to focus so much on the negatives of myself. I've gotten way better about it and I'm happy about that improvement.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Would anybody (Ace?) be up to make an actual matchup guide? We have the old "Ganon Vs." which is nice, but really not in-depth at all. It'd be a LOT easier to consult that than to have to try to dig through this mess to find the relevant mu. just a thought.

I can probably do some of the lesser known matchups, like yoshi or luigi. Should be able to contribute a bit to falco / marth, but those would be better suited for the pros.

I'd love for one of those guides to be updated though. Would help me vs problem matchups like fox.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I never get to play with people heavily, so it'll probably take longer.

And the falco did this to me around 10 or so.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Sorry for the rants. None of my friends actually enjoy talking about the game. So I guess I just need an outlet.

Spoiler

I think trying to apply new tech with ganon, where you don't gain as much as top tiers from it, makes me not try to make reads and I play insanely worse from my highs. Like I can go from being four stocked by someone to taking games just from not trying new things.

And I always seem to "forget" matchups if I don't play them consistently. Like I'll know them in my head, but I'll forget how to execute the stuff that works. The solution is to either study harder or play better people consistently. Since I'm a tactile learner (I learn best by doing things. Think naruto) the latter would be best. Unfortunately, people will avoid me, as if their time is so valuable that I'm not even worth it. I'll walk up to a setup, and then the one person I want to play on it will leave. So I guess the only solution is to start salty mming people. I wish I could just sit down with people for hours and play while conversing about the game. But that's just not going to happen until I'm respected I guess. And everyone I play with regularly just doesn't understand what I'm talking about or dislikes talking during games. **** modern smash culture.

Until then, I'll keep studying. But unfortunately I'm just not as good at improving that way. When when I know how things work, my fingers don't I guess.

 

[Swagic]

Sorry for the rants. None of my friends actually enjoy talking about the game. So I guess I just need an outlet.

Spoiler

I think trying to apply new tech with ganon, where you don't gain as much as top tiers from it, makes me not try to make reads and I play insanely worse from my highs. Like I can go from being four stocked by someone to taking games just from not trying new things.

And I always seem to "forget" matchups if I don't play them consistently. Like I'll know them in my head, but I'll forget how to execute the stuff that works. The solution is to either study harder or play better people consistently. Since I'm a tactile learner (I learn best by doing things. Think naruto) the latter would be best. Unfortunately, people will avoid me, as if their time is so valuable that I'm not even worth it. I'll walk up to a setup, and then the one person I want to play on it will leave. So I guess the only solution is to start salty mming people. I wish I could just sit down with people for hours and play while conversing about the game. But that's just not going to happen until I'm respected I guess. And everyone I play with regularly just doesn't understand what I'm talking about or dislikes talking during games. **** modern smash culture.

Until then, I'll keep studying. But unfortunately I'm just not as good at improving that way. When when I know how things work, my fingers don't I guess.

Hey, if I ever get to play you, I won't shut up about the game.

 

[Oldiz]

Pools got updated, and I'm now going to face a samus. Any tricks i should look out for?

 

[Swagic]

Pools got updated, and I'm now going to face a samus. Any tricks i should look out for?

Missile spam edgeguard is a pain in the ass. Don't forget that you can CC pretty much everything she throws at you, and literally every move you have beats a missile. At close range, fair will actually go through a missile and still hit. Also, she has 5 frames of invincibility on her up-b and the hitbox starts on frame 4, so go for the dair to get it, uair will trade unless spaced absolutely perfectly, and time it to wait until she's started the up-b.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Pools got updated, and I'm now going to face a samus. Any tricks i should look out for?

Might be too late, but side-b straight up beats missiles when you're close to samus. When you're approaching a samus on a platform, they're gonna drop through and shoot a missile so you can't aerial. Side-b will beat this. Just use sparingly because if you whiff, you die lol.

Watch when your opponent uses the grapple for recovery. On battlefield, they have one option. Time ledge drop up airs to edge guard this.

Samus players love to spot dodge, so watch out for it. They'll usually end up dtilting or crouch cancelling after they spot dodge, so if you don't punish the spot dodge, you should stomp. Don't jab because they'll just cc it.

You should approach, but be patient about it. Wait until you definitely have an opening because getting hit with a missile will almost always put you in a bad position.

I seem to remember plup saying that ganon should approach samus from above. Makes sense to me, seeing as missiles won't hit you if you attack from top plat etc.

 

[Swagic]

I tried that... Turns out Samus's uair is pretty stupid. It'll stuff most approaches from above, but it can also be punished. The hard part is the safe bait for it.

The irony of all this is that it's the Samus matchup that originally drove me to these boards. If my roommate wasn't an obnoxious Samus player, I wouldn't have ever gotten into competitive smash.

Edit: Wait, Pseudo, didn't you learn to play under Ripple's Samus?

 

[Diosama]

Kage Falcon Punched me ayy lmao

The set should be up tomorrow so I'll link it then. I did ok game 1, not so good game 2.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Wait, Pseudo, didn't you learn to play under Ripple's Samus?

I learned under his marth, but he frequently played samus, DK, and yoshi as well. Ripple had a lot of characters, all of them weird.

It's why I'm good at the marth matchup I think. And some of these other weird ones that I never really get to test lol

 

[Swagic]

I learned under his marth, but he frequently played samus, DK, and yoshi as well. Ripple had a lot of characters, all of them weird.

It's why I'm good at the marth matchup I think. And some of these other weird ones that I never really get to test lol

Dude, that DK-Yoshi combo... That's what my roommate plays. JANK matchups.

 

[spider_sense]

Dave's Doc vs my Zelda. Now THAT'S a jank ass match up. lmao

 

[Swagic]

Dave's Doc vs my Zelda. Now THAT'S a jank *** match up. lmao

I went Peach against my friend's G&W... GREAT way to test who RNJesus loves.

 

[-ACE-]

Dave's Doc vs my Zelda. Now THAT'S a jank *** match up. lmao

Seriously, I'd rather you switch to sheik for the sheer normalcy. Lol

 

[spider_sense]

Seriously, I'd rather you switch to sheik for the sheer normalcy. Lol

Don't act like my Zelda isn't amazing.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

zelda-ganon $mm?
















Ripple had a zelda too.

 

[-ACE-]

Don't act like my Zelda isn't amazing.

Amazing at truly highlighting how horrible her recovery is. Lol.

 

[spider_sense]

I'm down Joe. People underestimate the power of wisdom. lol

 

[F. Stein]

Played that shiek from last week today. Used my secondary to tire out his mind and then he quit. #kirby&ganonRotation

 

[Divinokage]

Kage Falcon Punched me ayy lmao

The set should be up tomorrow so I'll link it then. I did ok game 1, not so good game 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3DXrneVfZE&list=PL65IMg9w1B_hobTay-dYS6VsPomBAofk0&index=4 Ill do it for you. lol.

 

[Swagic]

During some random techskill practice today, I came across something I haven't seen here before- sticky walk into dash attack. The range is very deceptive.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Amazing at truly highlighting how horrible her recovery is. Lol.

lol zelda's recovery is sick. people just don't know how to use it.

source: zelda is my low tier main and one of my best characters.

 

[-ACE-]

I just feel like it's easy to read.

 

[Divinokage]

Grab the ledge, she's done.