Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Swagic]

It's really nice hearing these defensive strategies, though. A lot of these I wouldn't have considered. It's not often I see giving up stage position as a viable option, but WD oos should really be a more used option for me. I know I personally get caught up in Ganon's power, overextend myself, and get punished for being too aggressive.

 

[Duel]

I don't have trouble against players that approach me lul. Although ganon's defense is way better than his offense, it can only do so much.

People approach Ganon lol?

 

[-ACE-]

People approach Ganon lol?

I know right lmao.

In Florida tho, a lot of players have gotten good at playing against Ganon offensively. A lot of people give him too much respect. Choking him out is the most efficient way to kill Ganon, but it's high risk if you don't go about it right and the Ganon is punishing properly.

Edit: not trying to sound biased, other regions have offensive beasts too, just most of the offensive anti-Ganon playstyle lies in FL.

 

[Swagic]

You know, that might, just MIGHT be because of the ridiculously high concentration of Ganons in FL.

 

[-ACE-]

You know, that might, just MIGHT be because of the ridiculously high concentration of Ganons in FL.

Come on. Me, RockCrock, renth, Eikelmann, tipman, linguini, ranch, and spider_sense isn't that much.

 

[Swagic]

Come on. Me, RockCrock, renth, Eikelmann, tipman, linguini, ranch, and spider_sense isn't that much.

Oh, is that all? Well, then I can't imagine why they'd be good at it. /sarcasm

In al seriousness though, having to fight people that RockCrock styles on to start out is rough... Everyone at least understands the Ganon matchup. It's unfortunate.

 

[-ACE-]

Oh, is that all? Well, then I can't imagine why they'd be good at it. /sarcasm

In al seriousness though, having to fight people that RockCrock styles on to start out is rough... Everyone at least understands the Ganon matchup. It's unfortunate.

Yeah I'm going through that as we speak. By the time I made top 10 in SFL I'd be a beast at most matchups lol. Everyone has played a Ganon better than me.

 

[Bwmat]

That's one good thing about being the best (i.e. Only person foolish enough to main) ganon in my region.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I know right lmao.

In Florida tho, a lot of players have gotten good at playing against Ganon offensively. A lot of people give him too much respect. Choking him out is the most efficient way to kill Ganon, but it's high risk if you don't go about it right and the Ganon is punishing properly.

Edit: not trying to sound biased, other regions have offensive beasts too, just most of the offensive anti-Ganon playstyle lies in FL.

In my experience, this is very true. I have the hardest time against a fox in my region who's ranked #3 or something like that. I am nowhere near as afraid of the #1 and #2 spots as I am of the #3 because he plays the matchup correctly. #1 is a falco player who willingly puts himself near the edge... lol. #2 is a fox / sheik. The sheik bodies me, but the fox is campy as they come and he somehow thinks platforms are safe vs ganon. I actually have a positive record vs his fox in tournament even though he is net positive vs me overall. #3 goes in and suffocates me. I don't know where he learned to play the matchup, but he's got it down lmao.

I think the players are properly ranked, too, just that #3 plays the matchup the correct way. I played colbol recently and he went fox and it was more of the same. He's an aggressive enough player, but with all that linguini practice, he knows what he's doing in the matchup. I somehow kept it very respectable, actually, but yea when an aggro fox knows what they're doing, it's a hard day for ganon.

If an aggro fox has no idea what they're doing, it's ganon food.

 

[Bwmat]

spacies that **** me up the most usually dash dance camp me, rather than play especially aggro, although super techskill foxes which go in arts also troublesome.

 

[Linguini]

Nice. Looking forward to this.

On a side note, where did the name 'Meeels' come from?

Both meeels and linguini are childhood nicknames lol. Linguini only a few people ever used but meeels is still used quite a bit.

Honestly, most people who know the ganon matchup play it aggro since correct rushdown can annihilate ganon. Those who don't know the ganon matchup usually resort to camping by default. In theory it should be better; but most players play scared when they're camping.

 

[-ACE-]

I tested some **** and at 90% when you dthrow a fastfaller you can definitely dtilt ANY DI on reaction before they hit the ground (tech). The DI mindgame between ftilt and dtilt is real (although ftilt is better used at 110-115%). Both are good KO setups.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Yesterday I got RLD uair to ledge cancel off randal by accident. Could also be cool to try this with eikeldrop or lh runoff aerials.

 

[-ACE-]

spider_sense won the vs tournament Sunday and there was no stream. BS

 

[F. Stein]

I tested some **** and at 90% when you dthrow a fastfaller you can definitely dtilt ANY DI on reaction before they hit the ground (tech). The DI mindgame between ftilt and dtilt is real (although ftilt is better used at 110-115%). Both are good KO setups.

Fastfallers = Fox, Falco, Captain, Shiek, Pikachu, Roy? Asking mostly about those last two to expand my playbook.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Both meeels and linguini are childhood nicknames lol. Linguini only a few people ever used but meeels is still used quite a bit.

I oh think I get it. It's like E"meeel"io as in your name, I would assume. I'm still not sure where Linguini came from lol. Maybe that was your favorite pasta or something rofl.

spider_sense won the vs tournament Sunday and there was no stream. BS

Of-****ing-course. Everytime a Ganon who doesn't get much exposure does something great in tournament, it seems to never get recorded. What a tragedy.

 

[-ACE-]

Fox falco falcon = fastfallers.

I know some people call link, Roy, and others fastfallers but they are in a completely different tier. Fox Falco and falcon behave similarly in stun and fall situations, except falcon travels a little more laterally.

Ftilt is a great finisher out of dthrow if they DI towards ledge. But if they survival DI, your edgeguard will require a read. The read gets easier as the percent at which you ftilt him increases (easy edgeguard if you do it around 115% normally). So if you're playing someone that is used to ftilt, you can throw in dtilt and their survival DI gives you a free lethal fair. That's the idea.

If they DI away anticipating dtilt, ftilt is lethal.

 

[-ACE-]

This is basically what I think about when punishing spacies, or stuff that's influencing my decision making in neutral.

0%... Grab, jab, ftilt, stomp, spaced aerial

12%... Fresh dash attack knocks down.

17/18%... Fresh dtilt knocks down.

35-45%.... Dthrow to jab knocks down (missed tech for dair).

50-55%... Doable chaingrabbing and uthrow regrabs and traps begin.

70% dtilt starts setting up for free uair/fair

90% dtilt guaranteed after dthrow, uthrow regrabs end.

110-115% ftilt after dthrow

130-145% down-b after dthrow (DI behind is very difficult, I don't even try)

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Man I really want to start using dash attack more in neutral.

 

[-ACE-]

Added that dtilt is pretty good in neutral starting at 70% (ending around 95%), since the reward is so high.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

uair/fair aren't free from dtilt if it's DI'd correctly.

 

[-ACE-]

uair/fair aren't free from dtilt if it's DI'd correctly.

I try to word everything right but alas, I am far from perfect. I was implying that it often sets up for a free uair/fair, lol.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Ik ik. But it's an important distinction because that setup becomes less viable once someone's seen it.

 

[-ACE-]

The dtilt out of grab is backed up by the ftilt mindgame. And as far as using dtilt in neutral obviously it shouldn't be spammed, dtilts should usually surprise people lol.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

The dtilt out of grab is backed up by the ftilt mindgame. And as far as using dtilt in neutral obviously it shouldn't be spammed, dtilts should usually surprise people lol.

Does dtilt still set up for fair/uair at all percents in that range if a fast faller DIs up or perhaps up and away?

 

[-ACE-]

Up and away, no. They'd have to be right on you when you dtilt and then you could maybe uair.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I don't think so. The hitbox closest to Ganon doesn't combo.

Up and away would be pretty good DI for ftilt too. So it would negate the mind game. Besides, according to your data, ftilt doesn't work until 110. So you have a 20 percent gap where regrab, dtilt and jab are your only options out of dthrow. So it's probably best to continue the chaingrab, uthrow, or jab until 110, unless you see them DI into the sweet spot of dtilt and you are absolutely sure they won't DI to avoid your uair/fair.

At 110, I think the optimal thing to do is to not even try dtilt, but to just down-b or ftilt in reaction to their DI. Down-b for in front, and ftilt for behind. The only problem is there are situations where it might not be enough to close off the stock. But the chaingrabs go really high, so it's important to recognize when down-b or ftilt won't finish it and just continue the chaingrab.

Example: You're near the edge of DL facing offstage and dthrow fox at 110. If they DI behind, your ftilt might not set up for the kill. They might be able to DI down and tech. Really good survival DI would also probably work. So in that situation, regrab would be best until he DIs in your favor.

 

[-ACE-]

You can ftilt at 90% too lol, ftilt is just more viable at my recommended range. And up and away DI seals their death there, just edgehog. The mindgame is not negated.

I've always recommended regrab on DI behind in those situations. The ftilt and dtilt are also option selects for offstage KO setups.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

When can you start ftilting off dthrow?

 

[Duel]

The peach MU is a joke, the neutral stage choice is always anything but neutral. Where do you guys let peach take you, DL, or FOD? Those seem to be the last 2 stages remaining after striking every time.

 

[-ACE-]

When can you start ftilting off dthrow?

Good question, low ftilt starts working first. I'll test it in the next few days.

 

[-ACE-]

The peach MU is a joke, the neutral stage choice is always anything but neutral. Where do you guys let peach take you, DL, or FOD? Those seem to be the last 2 stages remaining after striking every time.

I do better on FoD half the time because I'd rather fight any opponent in a phone booth opposed to a stadium. You also have to consider your mental stamina and neutral game. DL is good but you have to put in a lot of effort to beat a good peach.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Duel I don't think FOD is nearly as bad as people make it out to be. With shield drops and proper movement, it pretty much is a slightly harder to play Yoshi's. Because it's so small, it's easier to control.

The problem with DL is you have to play so much harder to win. Because of how easily Peach edgeguards you, one mistake could lead to your death. The faster you can get your KOs, the better.

 

[-ACE-]

Tipman makes DL work, he's really smart about when he chooses to commit.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

That's true. But I feel like that decision making could be applied to any stage with better results. It looks to me like he's just more comfortable there, which is understandable. DL is probably the second easiest stage to move around on.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

http://www.twitch.tv/mikehazegaming/v/36869820 Glorious n0ne Ganon vs HugS footage starting at 3:23:30 or so

EDIT: lol that was part 2 i linked. Here's part 1: http://www.twitch.tv/mikehazegaming/v/36869820?t=2h57m36s

 

[spider_sense]

That's true. But I feel like that decision making could be applied to any stage with better results. It looks to me like he's just more comfortable there, which is understandable. DL is probably the second easiest stage to move around on.

Just don't play a campy fox there.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

The Ganon - Falco MU

 

[RedmanSSBM]

EDIT: Nevermind, Mike Haze told me to take them down cause I didn't ask for permission. Gonna have to get that figured out.

EDIT 2: Okay Mike Haze uploaded the first set to his channel... now for the second one.

 

[-ACE-]

LOL wow. How dare you try to steal his subscribers?!?!

Put your **** on YouTube muh f***a