• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
So I did some extra testing on untechable stomp. It feels like it's virtually impossible to hit on Falco at 19-20% (fresh stomp no DI). Starting at 22 or 23% though, his tumble has changed by the time he's hit the ground (when he's airborne but on his back, tail feather pointing down), and it's noticeably easier. At least to me. So I won't be attempting it under 22% on Falco.
 
Last edited:
X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,647
Location
Lowell, MA
Yeah getting noticed will take time. I'm way better than everyone at my community college, but I don't care because that doesn't mean **** and won't get me noticed. My local Boston scene is going to be hard to break into the PR or get consistent meaningful results in because it attracts a fair number of top 100 players and hidden bosses of relative skill. And there are people on the tri-state PR, a region that most would consider one of the best, floating between both regions and attending our locals pretty frequently. DJ Nintendo and The Moon come to mind, but there are more. Obviously it's not a super stacked area. But I would say that the player base coming to tournaments in the area is pretty strong on average compared to most of the country and world. Smash is played almost everywhere now. There are therefore more tiers for regions and cities than ever before. It's funny just how big of a gap there is between the best regions and cities and the worst. I'm thankful I'm in an area where it will be hard to climb the rankings, but doable if I put in the work. I think a lot of people struggle getting noticed and developing confidence in the super stacked regions, which can really inhibit long term results. And at the same time, people that dominate ****ty regions/areas don't get enough high level experience to go far. So I guess I'm happy to be in a mid tier region/area.
 
X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,647
Location
Lowell, MA
We have a sponsor. Unfortunately, I'll have to be at like a top 200 level before I could stand out enough to get the one sponsor we have.

e: Actually there's one other somewhat legit sponsor. Still, just about everyone sponsored by these two sponsors is pretty good. Maybe they'll lower their standards and maybe more sponsors will show up. Idk. Regardless, I'm not going to get a sponsor the easy way. I can at least be grateful it won't be insanely difficult.

e2: But sponsors are pretty new here in general. That's reflected by the fact that a player like Mafia, a miom top 100 player with a few notable wins on a national level and consistent high results locally doesn't have a sponsor. There are other examples, but that's probably the best.
 
Last edited:
F. Stein

F. Stein

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
237
Location
Wyoming
Lol, yeah I live in wyoming... university scene is the only one within 3 hours drive time so... getting to any level of good is pretty much impossible lol. But i'll be going down to Denver and over to Omaha, maybe Kansas if I have nothing to do. Kinda separated from ant real smash scenes by geography but at least my state is trying... even if we are super horrible. I at least want to try and learn.

On topic, untechable stomp seems fin. Got it to work on a Samus on battlefield today. Kinda by accident so I went straight into a nihl and then platform drop fair. I'm curious to see if this has tons of hidden uses.
 
X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,647
Location
Lowell, MA
I watched some n0ne Ganon this morning. Do you guys know if dash perfect wavedash is faster than dash over long distances?
 
D

DCW

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
104
Location
Georgia
Last edited:
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
Last edited:
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
I saw the shield tilt too but I know if you get pushed off a ledge while shielding you suffer from 25 frames of no inputs working. So it's a shield drop but I doubt he meant to do it. As long as his controller is good he'll get it in no time. If he cares to, lol.
 
ForTheLulz

ForTheLulz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
104
Location
Maryland
Peach is a challenging matchup.

My friend's a Peach main, you see.

Turnips and FC's absolutely body me. I can't get any stage control.

How do I maintain stage control without just committing to an aerial and being punished? And how do I avoid getting stuck in shield?
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
Catch the turnips, don't shield them. If you catch it during a turnip approach you can dj and throw it down. A lot of times peach will be directly under you by then. If the turnip hits her, fall and uair. If she shields it, drop and immediately grab.

Instant uairs, spaced, are great. Fastfall immediately and it auto cancels. Peach isn't super fast, so utilize your ground movement (DD and smart wavedashes into dash) as opposed to shielding. DD grab (a quick jc grab) is legit in this matchup. You have to out space her, which takes constant good zoning. Instant uairs and spaced bairs/pivot bairs work well and are pretty safe. Try to get grabs and punish correctly after dthrow.

Shield IS good when you get a good read on her dash attack habits.
 
Last edited:
O

Oldiz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 15, 2015
Messages
125
Ganons item throw animations are also so dank that your opponent surely gets dazzled.
 
RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
1,744
Location
Greensboro, NC
ForTheLulz said:
Why, thank you :)

What do you mean by backwards roll? Is it just roll back and Peach can't do anything about it?
Click to expand...
Yeah if you're in your shield and you roll backwards while facing peach you will do the quick and long backflip. I think Peach's dash attack just barely can't reach but I can't remember. I think it also depends on how close to your shield she is at first.
 
F. Stein

F. Stein

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
237
Location
Wyoming
Locke Robster said:
Yeah if you're in your shield and you roll backwards while facing peach you will do the quick and long backflip. I think Peach's dash attack just barely can't reach but I can't remember. I think it also depends on how close to your shield she is at first.
Click to expand...
I can confirm that, I have a peach that I play on a weekly basis.

@ForTheLulz

Unless she uses a FC air to fall behind you while you are shielding, rolling back puts you out of reach of even her dash attack. Fun fact, if she DOES dash attack towards you after you roll backwards she is in perfect range for a grab or a jab. Pivot Bair also works great on her if she commits to a dash attack. In the case where she falls behind your shield with an air just roll away from her. Enough times of this and she should start to get the message... or just lose sets, so either way works.

I would also recommend baiting her to D-smash. If she is D-smash happy on a stage with platforms you can always drop a spaced Fair on your while she is in that animation and you will knock her out of it. Usually the peach i play tries to get a dash attack, downsmash in if one of his turnips hits and I always just fade back with a Fair to hit the pink spinning top.

Don't be discouraged if she keeps recovering, just keep bodying her from the stage and look for good Bair/Tipman opportunities. Bair is slightly worse in this matchup than it normally is when used for edgeguarding because it can reset the neutral and give you headaches. If she sits on a platform she'll want to D-smash, keep that in mind and get her to do something silly. Even though D-smash is a great move for peach she gets stuck in it long it enough to eat heavy damage if she spams/wiffs it.

Do NOT try to trade with the umbrella unless you know the hit boxes really well and are good with spacing your Uair. If she is forced into recovering from below, so that she has to take the ledge, just take it first and drop an invincible Uair on her.

Ace has a great post on edgeguarding peach over on the first page of this thread:
http://smashboards.com/threads/ganon-edgeguarding-102-peach-added-is-ace-full-of.266671/
 
Last edited:
X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,647
Location
Lowell, MA
Although roll away is safe, don't do it too much. If the Peach knows the matchup, they won't try to punish your roll. They'll either dash toward you and try to bait something, or pull a turnip. Either way, you're suddenly at a disadvantage. Everything has a cost.
 
Swagic

Swagic

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
406
Location
Indianapolis or South Florida
Okay, question time. I keep getting baited into a Wizard's foot, then getting hugely punished for it. The annoying part is that the second I input it, I know I'm being baited. Is there any approach I can replace it with? Or should I not even approach at all? This is in most matchups.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
Swagic said:
Okay, question time. I keep getting baited into a Wizard's foot, then getting hugely punished for it. The annoying part is that the second I input it, I know I'm being baited. Is there any approach I can replace it with? Or should I not even approach at all? This is in most matchups.
Click to expand...
Oh ****, this is a bad habit. I have it, even more so with side-b. You ruin neutral game and give them the most free punish ever. But it's gotten me fairly good at using side-b lol. The alternative you're looking for would depend on matchup. WF is better used after a CC when your opponent is at kill percent.

Play good neutral instead. Dash dance, jump to platform and drop back down, fullhop aerial, etc. You can adapt and change your style too and throw people off, simply by going from an aggressive defensive wall (kage style) to baiting fox with wavelands and see if he'll approach at bad times (bizz style). Try not to do down-b's out of desperation. Be more patient.
 
SlippinJimmy

SlippinJimmy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Messages
3
Location
Oklahoma City, OK
Anyone know the exact %'s for doing a Dair to charged U-smash kill off the top on fast fallers? (assuming the opponent doesn't DI) It seems a way better option than doing a dair to fair to edgeguard situation.
I've seen linguini do it a couple times in vids, looking for the exact %'s and stages it kills on.
 
PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Messages
2,162
Location
Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
Swagic said:
Okay, question time. I keep getting baited into a Wizard's foot, then getting hugely punished for it. The annoying part is that the second I input it, I know I'm being baited. Is there any approach I can replace it with? Or should I not even approach at all? This is in most matchups.
Click to expand...
Dash attack. Seriously. Don't overuse it, but when people dash dance or do that double jump bait thing, dash attack will usually clip them. Just run up as if you were going to fair and then dash attack slightly past them. Just don't do it against floaties if they're baiting it out with a double jump.

Ganon's dash attack is actually amazing for covering space. I clip foxes who DD close (baiting out fair) with it all the time. Not sure who agrees with me on this one but I don't care.
 
RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
1,744
Location
Greensboro, NC
Really good to see n0ne's Ganon being put to good use. I really believe he could have taken the set if he stayed Ganon on FoD, as he was just overwhelming HugS on Yoshi's, so I think a small stage like FoD could have been good as well. I definitely want to take a closer look at that Yoshi's game cause DAMN did n0ne have a lot of good tech and decisions in there. Really great stuff. I just wish n0ne used Ganon a bit more than just a CP against floaties on Yoshi's lol.
 
X WaNtEd X

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,647
Location
Lowell, MA
I've said it before, but n0ne is literally the fastest moving Ganon. Being able to consistently move around with perfect wavedashes like that is hard a f. I'm training to do it now, and it's so hard to keep up for long periods of time. Like going across fd once or twice is doable. But being able to do it forever without stopping, and being able to control yourself with precise dash dance and jumps out of it is difficult. **** moonwalking this **** is way cooler imo.

Also someone link the n0ne hugs set.
 
ForTheLulz

ForTheLulz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
104
Location
Maryland
S2J takes a game off Armada.

I think he was sort of taking a ganon approach to the matchup. He was walling out Armada, heavily using spaced nair and ftilt.
A lot of his kills were off just grab to uair.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
X WaNtEd X said:
I've said it before, but n0ne is literally the fastest moving Ganon. Being able to consistently move around with perfect wavedashes like that is hard a f. I'm training to do it now, and it's so hard to keep up for long periods of time. Like going across fd once or twice is doable. But being able to do it forever without stopping, and being able to control yourself with precise dash dance and jumps out of it is difficult. **** moonwalking this **** is way cooler imo.

Also someone link the n0ne hugs set.
Click to expand...
Yeah smash turn to perfect wd always looks super fast
 
XLAX_OVERDOSAGE

XLAX_OVERDOSAGE

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 15, 2013
Messages
192
Location
Ottawa, Canada
On topic about faster movement

So dash perfect wavedash seems to be the most optimal ground movement for ganon. Combined with dashdancing(as mentioned about n0ne's crisp ganon movement), it could be considered one of the better options for ganon to improve in neutral. Perfect wavelands are a good movement mixup as well, but they require a SH beforehand, which takes a bit of time as well.

Could this also be the best option for ganon to grab the ledge from the stage? I could also see it as less punishable than backwards sh, and it could be faster than wavelanding onto the ledge.

I really want to improve my neutral with ganon the most, which is the hardest aspect to improve IMO. My ganon's been improving over the past few months locally, and my pros seem to be my punish/edgeguarding(which is usually what ganon strives in).

On a second note, I don't see myself comboing as much in general, as to getting one hit, and adjusting my position to get that second hit, or bait myself into getting that second hit. Do you guys have advice on improving my combo game? I feel like this is also too general a question to ask as it could be very MU-dependant.
 
O

Oldiz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 15, 2015
Messages
125
XLAX_OVERDOSAGE said:
On topic about faster movement

So dash perfect wavedash seems to be the most optimal ground movement for ganon. Combined with dashdancing(as mentioned about n0ne's crisp ganon movement), it could be considered one of the better options for ganon to improve in neutral. Perfect wavelands are a good movement mixup as well, but they require a SH beforehand, which takes a bit of time as well.

Could this also be the best option for ganon to grab the ledge from the stage? I could also see it as less punishable than backwards sh, and it could be faster than wavelanding onto the ledge.

I really want to improve my neutral with ganon the most, which is the hardest aspect to improve IMO. My ganon's been improving over the past few months locally, and my pros seem to be my punish/edgeguarding(which is usually what ganon strives in).

On a second note, I don't see myself comboing as much in general, as to getting one hit, and adjusting my position to get that second hit, or bait myself into getting that second hit. Do you guys have advice on improving my combo game? I feel like this is also too general a question to ask as it could be very MU-dependant.
Click to expand...
Perfect waveland is indeed the fastest way to grab the ledge, especially if you do the smash turn at the end if you're facing the ledge. That way you don't need to turnaround first.
Ganons punishes and edgeguards is what makes him kinda viable, and his horrible neutral is what holds him back. That might be what you meant, but strive=struggle.
As for true combos you want to either start with stomp, dthrow, 1st hit nair, dtilt or even badly DIed dsmash and side b. These moves have good amounts of stun, and allows strong follow ups like fair. I've connected dsmash to down b spike in tournament, and it's the greatest feeling ever. Combos with jab, uair and such are rarely true, so it's essential to space correctly when going for a followup. Also it's very important to recognize if you can hit them before they can tech, or if you should wait and tech chase.
 
W

Waldoring

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 27, 2015
Messages
69
Location
PGH
If you read (might be able to react as well) a standing/jc grab from a Samus you can sh warlock punch, pretty hilarious that it's guaranteed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom