Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[gmBottles]

I have a Bowser vs Ganondorf money match. I'm Bowser, what should I be looking out for from Ganondorf?

I'm asking here because the Bowser boards are dead and this isn't.

 

[Diosama]

I have a Bowser vs Ganondorf money match. I'm Bowser, what should I be looking out for from Ganondorf?

I'm asking here because the Bowser boards are dead and this isn't.

Why are you giving away free money

@YvngFlameHoe
Take it easy man, I just started part 6

 

[-ACE-]

Lmao. Yeah that's tough, don't try to contest his bair that much. If he spams aerials bad enough you might be able to dd grab him. Get free damage with your ledge getup attack every now and then. Find ways to link into your command grab and bthrow him offstage. You have to play lame and gimp him imo. Ganon has better neutral.

Not many Ganons are going to be able to cg bowser, thankfully for you. DI the dthrow behind and tech (unless that option puts you at ledge lol)

 

[Diosama]

Honestly dude, I really don't know what to tell you. If you get stomped or cg'd, you're good as dead. I suppose if his fair hits your shield, you could up-b, but that's it. You're gonna have to play like a super ***** rofl

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah up-b oos will actually save your ass a LOT

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I concur with -ACE- on the dthrow to fsmash not working at those percents on DI behind. It works on slight DI behind, though.

 

[gmBottles]

I've won the MU in tournament before so I know I can win. I'm not super ****ed

I know to play super lame, I have no problem with that.

 

[gmBottles]

I know that the dude isnt really that good. I imagine he'll be trying to style on me or whatever, I think he's gonna hit my shield a lot. Gonna spam upb OoS so much.

 

[-ACE-]

I know to play super lame, I have no problem with that.

Loooooool word

 

[gmBottles]

Loooooool word

When I won the set against a Ganon I just backthrew fair off ledge so much.

I think I won with a backthrow at like 15% and 3 fairs lmao

 

[-ACE-]

****ing gotem LOL

 

[Diosama]

Bizz kids actually really depress me. Don't get me wrong, he's a fantastic player, but that's exactly what it is: his playstyle is stylish, not the character. They focus too much on tech and not enough on fundamentals, even basics.

 

[gmBottles]

Bizz kids actually really depress me. Don't get me wrong, he's a fantastic player, but that's exactly what it is: his playstyle is stylish, not the character. They focus too much on tech and not enough on fundamentals, even basics.

Oh same here, they annoy me to no end. Which is why I'm totally down to obliterate him

 

[DCW]

Behind DI you should regrab if possible because bair won't kill them at this positioning.

When platforms are not an issue, I actually always run past them and then bair. It always works, in my experience! Am I missing something? Because that seems like the best option.

To clarify: say I'm on the right edge of FD and Sheik DIs the downthrow toward center stage. Then I just run past her in the same direction and bair her offstage.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I'm cool with having spent most of my time so far practicing tech rather than fundamentals. Some fundamental skills have come naturally. But when I actually get to really optimizing everything I can and perfecting fundamentals, I'll have more tools to work with, more options, and thus more mixups. Investing time into tech is a long term investment. Fundamentals will take you far. But you need to have enough layers to your game to make enough adaptations to get the w against the high and top level players.

e: adaptations, not agitations. god dammit swype

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah, if fundamentals were everything Kage would've won 5 nationals by now LOL

 

[tm]

When platforms are not an issue, I actually always run past them and then bair. It always works, in my experience! Am I missing something? Because that seems like the best option.

To clarify: say I'm on the right edge of FD and Sheik DIs the downthrow toward center stage. Then I just run past her in the same direction and bair her offstage.

That's good but they can still survive bair way past 90%. It's definitely not the "best" option.

 

[-ACE-]

That's good but they can still survive bair way past 90%. It's definitely not the "best" option.

True, you could turn and fair as well, which often takes her jump. But I do get what DCW said to work fairly often when they DI away.

 

[BraveGrunt]

abcdefghij

 

[-ACE-]

Perfect wavelands out of an empty, fastfalled shorthop.

 

[F. Stein]

Perfect wavelands are so nice.

BraveGrunt Sounds like you practice a lot of the same stuff I do, I find dedicated timed practice helpful. Since I'm really new to the game here is what I do on my own.

FD - Two minutes of perfect waveland
BF - Two minutes of platform perfect wavelands
DL - Two minutes of NIHL, shield drops and general platform fun
PS - Two minutes Ledge tech, spider drops, anything that I feel that needs work using the ledge because of the camera angle
YS - Two minutes Pivot training, tilts, b-air, all that good stuff
FoD - Two minutes of edge guarding practice
FD - Two minutes of comboing a different, random character that you don't normally face so you learn something new

Then I go into practice mode and practie Motion sensor mine teching for 2-5 minutes and then boot up Fox as an opponent for 5 minutes of No DI chain grabbing and then 5 minutes of DI behind chain grabbing.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Nair pressure on shield is pretty interesting but I haven't seen it be put to use against a good player to really determine if it's good or not. It will probably get players to react to getting hit by the first hit and then try to jump out and get hit by the second hit, or you use the nair to puts them off the side platform... Idk I just haven't seen it be used enough to really see if it's a viable mixup. Maybe for characters who do not have good out of shield options like Marth.

I think the only time nair in NEUTRAL is actually useful is vs Falcon when you know he is going to nair and you do yours first and close enough to beat his. It's basically a hard read in neutral but since most Falcons just like to nair anyway and they are DIing in when they are drifting forward, they are likely to get hit by both hits of nair cause lol Falcon's falling speed is great for comboing. Using nair anywhere else purely in neutral is a bad idea because it's just not a lasting hitbox nor even getting the first hit is all that good because it sends people too far away to be useful when you have a better move called upair. Good players should be able to punish dumb nairs in neutral because the hitboxes are so bad and they can challenge that ish with almost no real worry. Even the animation length of nair is longer than upair is, so it's pretty much an inferior move in every single way. It's fun to land against mid-level players but expect that **** to not fly at a higher level.

God, retreating instant upair is so good guys. Just be careful to not use it too much cause even if you fast fall it, a fast enough character (like Fox) can just run in and shine you when you land.

Also get really good with doing pivot perfect wavedashes when moving around in neutral. It's pretty useful as Falcon and I imagine it's also pretty useful as Ganon.

 

[-ACE-]

a fast enough character (like Fox) can just run in and shine you when you land.

If he catches you airborne you can ASDI grab him out of his waveshine (down and away). But if you're grounded, SDI out obviously.

 

[DCW]

That's good but they can still survive bair way past 90%. It's definitely not the "best" option.

What would be a better option in the FD scenario I mentioned? Suppose that they DI too far away for a regrab, as sometimes happens.

Yeah, if fundamentals were everything Kage would've won 5 nationals by now LOL

On the other hand, if tech meant nearly as much as fundamentals, many of the people on the Ganon boards would be doing as well as Kage.

 

[-ACE-]

D DCW with no platforms, regrab is guaranteed on DI behind, and is worth opting for over a non-lethal aerial.

 

[DCW]

Good point. But after the regrab in our hypothetical scenario, if Sheik DIs away (toward center stage) would fair kill? Seems like you would be in a worse position to kill, since you're farther from the blast zone than before. For that reason, it seems better to forgo the regrab and bair Sheik while you have the position and she is at a suitable percent like 90%. If the bair at the edge doesn't kill her, it will force her to up-B, in which case you grab and repeat the above procedure until bair kills. That seems more likely to result in a kill than a regrab on full behind DI toward center stage. This is just based on my experience and may not be right.

 

[-ACE-]

Think about 3 pummels + dthrow damage and fair. Close.

 

[DCW]

Hmm, I guess you're right...I'll keep that in mind vs Sheik. What do you think about it vs Marth, though? Those are the two I've used it on the most, and Marth isn't susceptible to the regrab. I've found it effective in both cases.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I got my first 0 to death chaingrab in tournament on a Sheik last week. Some guy behind me literally asked, "Is that a thing?" Felt so good. My new thing vs. Sheik is I use Ganon and punish super hard for not knowing the matchup. If they find a way to beat my Ganon, I just go Falco or Fox. Still having a secondary character crisis. Either way, my spacies are catching up to my Ganon pretty quick. It's kind of sad, considering I haven't put in even a thousandth of the time into them that I have on Ganon. Whateva.

 

[Divinokage]

Bizz kids actually really depress me. Don't get me wrong, he's a fantastic player, but that's exactly what it is: his playstyle is stylish, not the character. They focus too much on tech and not enough on fundamentals, even basics.

But you live in the same area as I.. Players can attempt to style here but everyone gets wrecked for it.

I might have done better overall if I had played a ton of hours everyday but Ganon is still a hard read character so a lot of times when you miss one little thing, you die. You cant always cover everything because he's slow, the only way i would have beaten everyone is if i had clairvoyance lol. Its super hard to be 100% consistent with everything and even then the gods aren't even at that level. Every player is still ****ty by Melee's standards.

 

[-ACE-]

D DCW you'd be surprised how long you can regrab Marth when it's DI behind.

 

[DCW]

Do we have any numbers or guesses on how long behind DI regrab works on Marth?

 

[-ACE-]

Do we have any numbers or guesses on how long behind DI regrab works on Marth?

I'm curious myself, if only level 1's would spam dj or fair after DI'ing behind lol.

But in general, it's good to know that DI behind extends many chaingrab percentages due to its low trajectory.

 

[DCW]

CPUS spam jump in 20XX, so I might check it out if I find myself with spare time this weekend.

 

[-ACE-]

CPUS spam jump in 20XX, so I might check it out if I find myself with spare time this weekend.

I know I'm wasting my "breath" but post your findings!

 

[Diosama]

But you live in the same area as I.. Players can attempt to style here but everyone gets wrecked for it.

I might have done better overall if I had played a ton of hours everyday but Ganon is still a hard read character so a lot of times when you miss one little thing, you die. You cant always cover everything because he's slow, the only way i would have beaten everyone is if i had clairvoyance lol. Its super hard to be 100% consistent with everything and even then the gods aren't even at that level. Every player is still ****ty by Melee's standards.

Yeah I get that but I'm talking with Ganon specifically. Sometimes it feels like the character is becoming a joke you know?

ty for wrecking me in dittos again btw

 

[-ACE-]

GOOD LUCK

To all Ganons going to Genesis 3. Whip out that smart phone if hype sets go down off stream! Lol

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Ganondorf might be a joke to plebs who don't know **** about the character, but I'm sure we will always know of Ganon's potential. We just need more and better Ganons.

 

[-ACE-]

Ganondorf might be a joke to plebs who don't know **** about the character, but I'm sure we will always know of Ganon's potential. We just need more and better Ganons.

Preach it

 

[F. Stein]

Exactly, we just have to start climbing and getting noticed. As long as I can get past the peach matchup at my school I think I'll be able to make Ganon take first place on a weekly basis now.