Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[F. Stein]

Having a hard time following the acronyms too, so I'll ask...

RLD = ???

 

[-ACE-]

Reverse ledge dash. Ledgehop reverse wL.

Questions like that are beyond welcome.

 

[Swagic]

Wait, how does NIL look? Is it like the waveland-in-place thing? Or just landing and immediately standing up like a jab reset? Or something else entirely?

 

[-ACE-]

You land with zero lag, skipping the normal landing animation.

Try backwards fulljump under a platform on BF like I said. You can do anything instantaneously. This is why BF is just as good as YS imo.

 

[Diosama]

On the subject of ledge options, how do you guys like to ledge hop?

I like tilting back on the control stick to let go of ledge then jumping forward with Y. I've also heard of letting go with the c stick followed by a tap jump.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

If you don't **** with RLD, then you can just get out *south park voice*

 

[-ACE-]

Diosama I just use down, and roll to forward as I jump immediately. Some advise against it but I use down to drop for all ledge mechanics.

 

[-ACE-]

http://youtu.be/4nYQJaWff1w

1:11 backwards fulljump NIL instant drop fair

 

[Linguini]

Reverse wl is hard; unless you're tipman that is lol

 

[Swagic]

http://youtu.be/4nYQJaWff1w

1:11 backwards fulljump NIL instant drop fair

OOOOOOHHHHHHHHH Okay. That makes more sense.

Also, I use control stick, back->forward->x for ledgehops.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

As much as you want to play Falcon like Ganon... it just doesn't really work. Maybe neutral can be similar, but the punish and combo game is sooo different. Not to mention edgeguarding too.

 

[KenMeister]

I personally just can't see how people can play both Falcon and Ganon at the same time. They're like complete opposites in playstyle, and Ganon advocates perfect spacing moreso than Falcon does when it comes down to defensive play. Then again, I can't really short hop consistently with Falcon, soooo.....lol

 

[Dorsey1]

I mean if you switch to falcon why would you play like ganon anyway

 

[-ACE-]

I mean if you switch to falcon why would you play like ganon anyway

I dunno ask kage LOL

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

or ask n0ne

 

[-ACE-]

Lol he plays Ganon like falcon, exact opposite

 

[-ACE-]

So, you can cc jab between Falco ledgehop fair hits. I dunno if I ASDI'd backwards slightly also and maybe one of the hitboxes whiffed, which may have made it possible, but yeah. It's possible.

 

[Divinokage]

I mean if you switch to falcon why would you play like ganon anyway

Because Sheik is a little easier and Falcon has a style of fight that corresponds to how I think mostly. Also I sometimes think about using Falcon on FD and Stadium.. at the limit Dreamland vs whoever.

 

[Swagic]

Helpful training trick for any lurkers (also just a TON of fun)

Want to work on teching? Super Sudden Death on Hyrule Temple against Ganon, Bowser, or DK. I suppose it could also be some SDI practice too. Personal record is about 630% against Roy.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I've always practiced ledge-teching by using a lvl 9 G&W cpu, CCing his moves till 50%, and just practicing by jumping off stage and he will always attack at the ledge. The hardest attack he will do that you can tech is his up-smash cause it's so delayed. If you can react to the moves G&W can do, then you can tech Falco's delays f-smash at the edge that seems to get everyone.

 

[Swagic]

I personally am a fan of the motion-sensor bombs on FD, but that's just me. That was for an introduction to techs.

 

[F. Stein]

What's my best option to deal with consistent super missile spam on a place like FD?

My training partner plays samus consistently, he bans yoshi story and we'll win up fighting on FD, Battlefield and Dreamland 64. I'm fine when I have platforms to NIL/Waveland on but I'm confused on what options I have for approaching when he creates missile patterns.

What I've been doing is waveland into jab, which destroys a super missile and lets me edge closer until I can catch him locked in missile stance with a Fair (which eats the missile that's coming out). What other options do I have for moving towards a spamming samus?

 

[-ACE-]

You can fair and bair missiles. So many moves will cancel them out. Try to take up space quickly so you don't spend half the match punching missiles lol.

 

[Swagic]

My roommate plays a super spammy Samus (ha... Spamus), and it gave me problems because of the stupid land-cancelling missiles thing, which completely stuffed my aerial approaches. So I switched to just walking menacingly towards him and ftilting any missiles that got in my way. It's terrifying. When he jumps to avoid the approach, you pounce.

Also, just a helpful hint, rolling backwards to avoid missiles/charge shot? Bad call. Turns out the hitbox comes out the back and still hurts.

 

[tm]

What's my best option to deal with consistent super missile spam on a place like FD?

My training partner plays samus consistently, he bans yoshi story and we'll win up fighting on FD, Battlefield and Dreamland 64. I'm fine when I have platforms to NIL/Waveland on but I'm confused on what options I have for approaching when he creates missile patterns.

What I've been doing is waveland into jab, which destroys a super missile and lets me edge closer until I can catch him locked in missile stance with a Fair (which eats the missile that's coming out). What other options do I have for moving towards a spamming samus?

Dash attack helps you approach and cancels as it destroys the missile, very good imo (doesn't work for high missiles, which you can duck and sideB under) jab works but is a bit harder to time and doesn't move you. Shielding is fine too

if she jumps, you have like a year to close the space on her before she lands lol. Missile camping isn't really bad on FD, but it can be on pokemon / BF. Yoshis too but obv that's a bit easier to close the space on

 

[-ACE-]

oh yeah, I've been thinking about the up-tilt as a legitimate edge-guard. i think the rarity of the move's usage will surprise your opponents enough to make them mess up their recovery.

Wow. #bizarrospark #historicalpost

 

[Swagic]

Alright, guys, I have a funny:

I was working on my techskill today, just testing things. And my successes were weird.
RLD- 50%
Regular ledgedash- 90%
L-cancels- 100%
Wavelands- 95%
Shield drops- 80%
Good, old-fashioned, basic wavedashing- 2%

That's right. I can do craptons of advanced techs, but I cannot wavedash to save my life. WHYYYY

 

[-ACE-]

You have to be hitting R during jumpsquat.

Everyone should practice SHFF perfect wavelands imo

 

[Swagic]

You have to be hitting R during jumpsquat.

Ooooohhhhhhhhh that'll do it.

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah Ganons wd being so slow took me forever to get used to.

 

[KenMeister]

Are there any niche situations worth using wavedash over wave lands though? I never see it get brought up, so I was curious.

 

[-ACE-]

Are there any niche situations worth using wavedash over wave lands though? I never see it get brought up, so I was curious.

OMG yes. It's mandatory to have good neutral vs falcon, fox, pikachu, Marth, sheik, etc. Really anyone with a fast approach. To have success in tournament you need to pressure as hard as possible, only doing something "unsafe" as a bait. You're trying to corner them without leaving yourself open. Ground game is often more important than aerials, and at high level you quickly find out how much of a commitment even a shorthop is. WD back to shieldgrab and dash up to your opponent and wd back (bait, or you can dash +jc grab them) are still so good despite being so basic.

Edit: perfect wd into instant dd is great.

 

[-ACE-]

Also wd oos is still underused. Free grab on shielded marth fsmash baby! /oldnews

Basically wd oos is great any time you don't need near-immediate invincibility (like you would get from a buffered roll or spot dodge). Good for falco lasers/samus missiles when you must shield (hopefully not when Falco's approaching lol) too. Great way to change your position quickly and do literally anything afterward (including simply dashing immediately if no options make sense after the wd).

Wavelands are obviously longer and therefore sneakier/more viable for approaching in many cases, but you certainly can't get repetitive. DJ wavelands are easier but sh wL is better and worth mastering imo.

 

[DCW]

Repeated WDing is faster than running! It's Ganon's quickest way to get across the ground without employing platforms, as far as I know. For instance, when you hit someone across FD, the optimal way to close the distance between you and them is to repeatedly WD, not to run.

Remember that there are two components to practice with your wavedashes: 1) the timing between your jump and airdoged andand 2) the angle of your control stick when you dodge. Focus on the timing part (1) at first until you become fairly confident with it, then focus on the angle (2). You'll want your control stick to be almost, but not exactly, horizontal to get a maximum length WD. (Dodge horizontal for WLs.) A max length WD is a lot longer than any other WD, so it's important to aim for this max distance. Anything less will really limit your movement as Ganon. With practice and dedication, you can WD all the way across FD no problem.

And I agree with ACE, sh WLs are really good. Focus on WDs, dj WLs, and platform WLs first though, because they're easier and more basic movement skills, in my opinion.

 

[-ACE-]

Fastfalling after the shorthop and into the perfect wL requires more speed but actually increases your window for getting the wL.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Hey guys. Figured I'd check in since it's been a while. How are you guys doing? Any notable improvements?

I also figured I'd share this "combo" video someone made for me as a going away present. Not sure if it was posted yet. https://youtu.be/OTLUxQT9W5Y

 

[-ACE-]

Hey guys. Figured I'd check in since it's been a while. How are you guys doing? Any notable improvements?

I also figured I'd share this "combo" video someone made for me as a going away present. Not sure if it was posted yet. https://youtu.be/OTLUxQT9W5Y

Nice vid.

I'm chaingrabbing spacies like it's my job. You know, the usual.

 

[Swagic]

Hey guys. Figured I'd check in since it's been a while. How are you guys doing? Any notable improvements?

I also figured I'd share this "combo" video someone made for me as a going away present. Not sure if it was posted yet. https://youtu.be/OTLUxQT9W5Y

I'm having my mind blown by techs you guys were discovering right around FC in 2012 and SUPER jealous of the Ganon house.

Also, question time, is there really anything in Ganon's advantage in neutral vs any top tiers?

 

[-ACE-]

Also, question time, is there really anything in Ganon's advantage in neutral vs any top tiers?

A strong mind. Lol

 

[Swagic]

So basically hit them really hard so you're never in neutral?