Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[X WaNtEd X]

My new understanding of the matchup:

Wait for Falco to **** up and punish. A cornered Falco will eventually make a mistake, even if it costs you 20 percent in lasers to force it out. Focus more on your DI, teching everything, and not getting trapped in shield than trying to move around and be fancy. You have to play defensive with aggressive stage positioning no matter what kind of Falco you're playing against.

It is impossible to guarantee edgeguards on Falco. Prioritize stage control over trying to cover options you can't cover. Recognize when you can cover everything. You can react to side-b with uair and jab from certain distances. There are certain indications it's coming, such as Falco being at level with a platform, yourself, or the ledge after a double jump.

 

[-ACE-]

In general Ganons suck at edgeguarding tho. Only a few are really good. I should be landing well over 75% I feel on spacies. Ganon has the tools.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Sucks at edgeguarding? I don't know about that. The only characters in the top 8 he really struggles to edgeguard are Peach and Puff. And I think Peach might become more doable in the future. Spacies are the next hardest. After that, all the other characters you should get down pretty consistently if you make correct decisions and have good ledge tech for Marth.

 

[-ACE-]

Ganon players suck at edgeguarding spacies. spider_sense and linguini are the best easily imo.

Also edgeguarding peach is cake compared to jiggs

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I made a playlist of Ganon vs. Falco in 2015. These are videos with Kage, Linguini, Spider Sense, Bizz, and Eikelmann vs. Falco. Pretty much all from YouTube. If anyone has some good twitch archives that aren't on YouTube, post them here too.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrk1E9c-bAhWcVPWndhIwfiYwHkQTOUKf

 

[-ACE-]

There are DEFINITELY Versus tournaments that didn't go to YouTube that are more than likely on VSGC twitch. I have no idea how long the twitch videos stay up. But if you look at the dates of YouTube videos, and you see a week is missing, unless it was during paragon, VS was open and a tourney took place. I'm sure there's some good hidden footage somewhere.

Also, you'll find some year old linguini matches in YouTube if you search "Ganondorf543 Ganon"

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Hitting Falco when he is in shield and how he responds is getting really predictable and easy for me to punish as of late. Most of the time if you space a bair or an upair or fair on a Falco's shield, he's gonna try to dair you out of shield. Seriously, so many mid-level and even higher level Falcos insist on using dair out of shield to get out of shield pressure. The thing about this when you are playing vs Ganon, is if it becomes predictable, it's really easy to trade a dair with Ganon's upair and have it be in your favor. You gotta be fast enough for it to work, but it's such a common thing for Falco to just ATTACK you out of their shield that it's gotten so predictable that I just punish their whiff and they get flown off stage. Even when Falco is pressuring my shield, I don't try to attack back unless he does something stupid. Each time I am put into shield by a Falco I always wait long enough for him to pressure my shield for a few hits and then just roll. I have YET to be punished for rolling in this way, which kind of annoys me cause I know higher level Falcos will just not tolerate that ****. Sometimes I'll just wavedash out of shield and just run away, cause I don't need to be in that business giving Falco free combos by trying to be aggressive when I should be getting the hell away.

I've been playing against this "basic Falco style" for such a long time now to where it is so predictable the decisions that they make, that my real focus goes into outplaying them in neutral, practicing edgeguarding and off stage edgeguarding, and even practicing SDI on his shines when he does land a hit on me. It's easy to forget how easy Falco has it, especially with his incredibly flow-chart punish game on FD. Every time I get hit by Falco on FD I'm expecting to take anywhere from 30-80% damage easily, even WITH good SDI. Still to this day I am punishing my Falco friends for doing stupid short hop double lasers from the edge and STILL they keep on doing it. I get a little annoyed when I punish my friends for something yet they insist on doing it over and over again. I love uptilting people's double jump with Falcon cause it's such an auto-pilot thing to do to people. Getting people to actually think and take me seriously in the game instead of just pushing buttons is one of those little pleasures of mine in the game that I like a lot.

So many Falcos don't preserve their double jump well enough and I want to play more Falcos who make smarter decisions so that I can further understand the matchup. This is the biggest reason why playing someone of high level is so important, because even if they make a poor decision the first time around, they will adapt and change up their decision making. Sometimes I like to **** around a little bit and see how my opponent responds to me spamming an option or maybe I don't throw a move out at all. Working on adaptation is hard when your friends aren't even doing much adapting in the first place with their decisions, and they are moreso doing it with their button pressing.

 

[-ACE-]

Hilarious **** went down tonight. Videos up in a while. Me, porkchops, and a newish falcon joined in too.

 

[-ACE-]

Part 1
http://youtu.be/zx76cahyNxY

7:06 example of CG to offstage uthrow trap, then example of option select regrab vs ftilt.

18:00 uthrow trap
19:42 uthrow trap

20:14 PORKCHOPS CAREER ENDED.

Part 2. Got cut off so you miss the stomp to untechable stomp to fair into edgeguard on FD. **** lol. Falco was on center stage with 20%, DI's one stomp wrong, dead.

http://youtu.be/giu7T5uagho

1:50 uthrow trap

2:33 reason I bought new controllers. No turn :/

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Those uthrows aren't traps, they just cover every option.

 

[-ACE-]

Those uthrows aren't traps, they just cover every option.

Lmao. If that isn't a trap I don't know what is.

He has nowhere to go.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Lmao. If that isn't a trap I don't know what is.

To me, a trap is when you trick someone into doing something when you otherwise could not cover an option or couldn't punish as hard if they did something else. So for example, if there are no platforms around in the Falcon matchup and you dthrow regrab once or twice to make them want to DI behind and then you uthrow into bair, that would be a trap.

But in your situation, no matter what that pork chops did, you were going hit him. If he didn't DI, you would've done uair or regrab. I think dtilt and ftilt also work on no DI sometimes. If he DI'd behind, you could've done bair or regrab or ftilt. And if he DI'd forward, like he did, you just tech chase uair on reaction. I felt like cg thing was more of a trap than those uthrows.

 

[-ACE-]

DI behind I would've just regrabbed. Then cg until I can trap him again or ftilt him off stage.

What you describe to me is simply good guessing. He wasn't trapped, you just read his DI. When I refer to "uthrow trap" I mean he's literally trapped (in a situation where DI away is normally safe) aka all options covered when normally (fd) they wouldn't be. A relatively easy KO setup results.

 

[Diosama]

Merry Christmas my fellow kings of evil

 

[Swagic]

Assuming you're playing on FD (because you used your ban on Fountain or something), how long can Sheik cg Ganon guaranted?

 

[Diosama]

Assuming you're playing on FD (because you used your ban on Fountain or something), how long can Sheik cg Ganon guaranted?

I checked a thread on the Sheik boards and someone said til around 70%

 

[-ACE-]

I checked a thread on the Sheik boards and someone said til around 70%

I think Ganon might be able to get out just before 60% on slight forward DI. Not sure. I get out around then though and most sheiks I play are already tilting instead of grabbing around that percent.

 

[Swagic]

Well, Ace started answering my followup question- what's the best way to DI to get out ASAP?

 

[-ACE-]

At low percents I like to switch between full away, full behind, and slight forward. At med% slight behind becomes a thing too. I jump out with slight behind around 60ish sometimes but I think slight forward is better.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Yeah it's either upper 50s or really low percent to get out. DI diagonal down away is the hardest for Sheik to conver on reaction I think.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

Every other thread is garbage af, they all DEAD -_-

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah it's either upper 50s or really low percent to get out. DI diagonal down away is the hardest for Sheik to conver on reaction I think.

Yeah true that, she can't regrab 0-7%

Also one more thing vs falco (and fox). When you're in stun, waiting to jump away from an incoming rising aerial, don't just dj, dj and instant uair. You will dodge uairs and bairs much better.

http://youtu.be/giu7T5uagho 2:05 is an ok example but not great.

YvngFlameHoe welcome back

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

Every other thread is garbage af, they all DEAD -_-

I'll probably learn more falcon here, then on any of them sucka ass threads. Video critique *********

 

[-ACE-]

I'll probably learn more falcon here, then on any of them sucka *** threads. Video critique *********

Why play falcon? Unless you're really serious about it. A Ganon main in sfl has it all.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Central FL is falcon land. SFL is Ganon land.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

I think one falcon outta sfl would be dope, he'd be madd Ganon esque

 

[Swagic]

I think the 2015 Ganon metagme will just be a mix of movement options. Just think about it. You've got sh forward, straight up and back, and from that you can do an aerial, a ff wl, or a regular waveland. If perfect wavelands can be achieved crazy **** can happen. I don't want to forget dj ff wl either.

I know, SUPER old post, but there was a debate LONG ago between him and Pseudo Turtle- what was the 2015 metagame about? Movement mixups or RLD? Also, DANG this thread is amusing.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I know, SUPER old post, but there was a debate LONG ago between him and Pseudo Turtle- what was the 2015 metagame about? Movement mixups or RLD? Also, DANG this thread is amusing.

I have always been a big proponent of the RLD. If you don't use it, you're a jabroni. Such a good option for stalling / edge guarding / recovery mixups to center / and even looking cool. Only jabronis don't RLD with ganon.

 

[KenMeister]

Dunno if this is the right place to post this, but is there a Melee Ganon Skype group? I remember asking sometime ago but no one had answered my question in another thread. If so, I'd like to join if that's alright.

 

[Swagic]

Dunno if this is the right place to post this, but is there a Melee Ganon Skype group? I remember asking sometime ago but no one had answered my question in another thread. If so, I'd like to join if that's alright.

I know there was one formed in Spring of 2012, no idea if it's still alove. If it is, I'd like in as well.

 

[F. Stein]

^^^^^^^^ I second that, i read everything here.

 

[Bwmat]

RLD is too hard, not worth the risk, IMO.

I'm pretty bad at it though.

 

[Swagic]

RLD is too hard, not worth the risk, IMO.

I'm pretty bad at it though.

RLD into aerials. ALL the "WTF?" It makes the game SO much funnier. Once you get it down, it's not bad. It also screws with people trying to cover the ledgehop or normal ledgedash. RLD to DJ to fair is totally worth it.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

RLD is hard. But you don't need it. I think that lh uair regrab and plat drops are better tech to learn. Plat drops into waveland are so good.

 

[-ACE-]

RLD good. RLD worth it.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

RLD isn't risky if you're good at it, like anything. But if people would rather focus on other things first rather than RLD, I can see why.

 

[Oldiz]

Wouldn't NIL from ledge and running off function similar to RLD, just turn you around?

 

[-ACE-]

Wouldn't NIL from ledge and running off function similar to RLD, just turn you around?

You don't get the added RLD mindgames. You can't ledgehop runoff regrab and then to ledgehop runoff bair, you have to commit to the bair or wL. You also can't ledgehop runoff dj into Tipman spike. It's really good.

 

[Swagic]

NIL? What is this?

 

[-ACE-]

No impact land.

Try backwards fulljump under a platform on BF or DL. Also, a slightly late ledgehop will NIL.