Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[-ACE-]

Lol I hate the term hax dash.

This takes like 100x the skill as it does with falcon. Moonwalk is extra

 

[-ACE-]

@ RedmanSSBM

More uair and bair. Zone him/space him out more. He fairs WAY too much, that'll get you....

x|-<

 

[NickNasty]

Lol I hate the term hax dash.

This takes like 100x the skill as it does with falcon. Moonwalk is extra

lmfao I actually had "Is this a hax d-" written as a joke, and deleted it because I didn't want people to **** on me for making fun of it. I'm just glad we're all on the same page. heh

 

[PseudoTurtle]

wait is it just a hax dash? or the motion including the double jump? or the WL- reverse moonwalk?

either way, that is some really good control

The hax dash is simply a reverse ledge dash, or RLD. Instead of wavelanding into the stage, you waveland back onto the edge. Fast fall it and you've got yourself an invincible ledge stall.

What I'm doing is the RLD, then immediately double jumping, DI'ing into the stage right after the RLD (like samus super WD), then pressing R to waveland on the platform. I use the momentum here to slide into a moonwalk so that I can take center stage and possibly create an edge guard scenario with a fair. You do not need to moonwalk on yoshis to take center stage.

I know it sounds like a mouthful, but break it down step by step. Start learning the RLD on hyrule temple because the ledge in the middle of the stage allows you to air dodge by accident and not die. Then bring it to FoD (platform at low height) to get the basic motion down, then battlefield / yoshis and try the full pseudo dash.

And for the record, @ -ACE- is right, the term hax dash is dumb. Tipman has been doing this since 2006 or earlier and even an empty RLD with ganon is harder than with falcon. I mastered it with ganon, then tried it with falcon just for ****s and got it first try. Couple it with the waveland (+/- moonwalk) and falcon mains could only dream of that kind of precision.

love it man, it would add to my ledge game if i learned it. I do ledge hop turn arounds to plat variations but rld seems to be a tighter window

Thanks man. Ledge hop turnarounds are legit, but pseudo dash is faster for sure, and it's absolutely incredible on yoshi's. Pseudo dash into bair (3rd fastest aerial) when they're pressuring you from under the plat is so legit. It immediately reaches center stage with no moonwalk required. They don't know what hit them. Like I said, I used it quite a bit the other day and some of it even got recorded. I'll be sure to gfycat it, but I didn't get punished once and I think I may have outright killed a sheik with it; at the very least, I set up for an edge guard.

I'm gonna hound my buddy until he uploads my matches to youtube, this lack of footage is killing me. I gotta see what kind of damage this **** did

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

I mostly just like the ledge regrab option. Ledge options and ground game is what im trying to improve/build on.

 

[NickNasty]

Thanks Pseudo.

I've already got the RLD down pat, it's just I can't keep my momentum going towards the center into a Moonwalk going --->>
I can do it in one direction, so I just gotta nail down the muscle memory. Thanks for the tips and full tutorial. :3

 

[-ACE-]

The hardest part is getting back to full forward and basically hitting it the same frame as jump (or before). It almost made me want to DD for minutes on end until my thumb is more loose/faster lol.

Also, if you ledgehop into pivot jump, then wL, it's basically the same as runoff dj wL and you retain your dj. Just something I like to do occasionally. NIL to immediate jump is pretty fast.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Thanks Pseudo.

I've already got the RLD down pat, it's just I can't keep my momentum going towards the center into a Moonwalk going --->>
I can do it in one direction, so I just gotta nail down the muscle memory. Thanks for the tips and full tutorial. :3

Np bud. Honestly, the moonwalk is optional and situational lol. Drop through bair is faster and safer, so probably more effective (in regards to battlefield).

Tipman, empty RLD (ledge regrab) has worked wonders for me thus far. Dumb marths try and fsmash on reaction to your waveland. Very stupid. So, sometimes you can fool them with an RLD, then waveland in afterwards and get a free grab. EZ$$. Works similarly in other matchups, but with less committal moves than marth fsmash lol.

Dave, that's pretty good, I should start practicing it so I can get my speed up. Right now, I'm a little laggy on the easier ledge tricks lol. I'd like to start seeing more ganons edge guard from the ledge. I know it sounds kinda silly, but I think there's a lot of reaction based tricks you can implement, many with the invincibility frames that the ledge offers. I'm gonna try and lab hard before big house.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Oh I can RLD no problem on either side but getting to that platform isnt happening unless i ledge hop run off which will have me facing the wrong direction if i platdash back towards the ledge. like ace mentioned that getting full forward DI jump on frame 1 is hard for me. i cant even get on the platform but it looks hella close lol. in regards to baiting with rld, try rld regrab to dj uair but you have to dj and uair as soon as you let go and you will preform a uair off stage but get the regrab. bait and punish free hits with ledge regrab options open again.

 

[gmBottles]

Damn that's dope as ****! Time to start grinding that

 

[Linguini]

And here I am still having trouble L cancelling all my fairs LOL. Tommy you're too good on the ledge

 

[PseudoTurtle]

That DJ uair regrab is actually the tech that was hardest for me to master lol, imagine that. I only used it as an edge guard before, never as a bait. Interesting concept, I'll have to try it out.

Linguini come to big house you can have your salty runback vs kage

 

[Linguini]

sounds good someone sponsor me and pay for all my expenses! trololol

btw been unrusting little by little, been goin 50-50 in sets with porkchops & blea gelo in the past couple tourneys

 

[-ACE-]

20GT|Linguinas

 

[Duel]

Anyone here still need a teammate for TBH5? Today is the last day you can choose your teammate.

 

[-ACE-]

Battlefield movement tip:

Backwards fulljump will NIL on the lower plat.

 

[Superspright]

Lol **** the pseudo dash and **** pseudoturtle.

I will get it though. Landing on the plat to instant shield 6 times = it's only a matter of time.

Use music to get down the timing. At least with this one. You can't even make a single error in timing. I was getting it for a little bit but mainly whiffing it.

Backwards fulljump on the first tier of platforms on battlefield is also a fast(er) way to waveland without giving up the second jump.

 

[-ACE-]

True. That's why that ledgehop pivot jump wL is actually mad fast.

But like backwards fulljump NIL dash shield drop is so good.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Battlefield movement tip:

Backwards fulljump will NIL on the lower plat.

Man, this is something that I still haven't really implemented in my game but I'm completely aware of. I do use this to waveland off the side platforms, but I don't use it to just NIL on the platform and instantly grab my opponent in shield. You can do this on BF, YS, DL, PS, and even FoD at certain heights. It's a really useful mixup on your opponent because they expect you to upair through the platform and hit them, so once you have them conditioned to think that, you can just jump up there with a NIL and grab them instantly.

I really want to drill this into my head because I have this habit of trying to attack my opponent on the platform above me everytime with upair. I could try to poke with bair or even give a lot of shield stun with dair, but no, I insist on upairing rofl. This is definitely one of the next things I want to work on doing, cause it's a powerful mixup option.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

You guys wanna know some ****? It's about SDI out of fox up air. Because I suck at the precise timing for SDI inputs, I've been doing this thing lately where I do a "dash dance" whenever I expect fox to up air. Idk how or why, but it works. A lot. Like the success rate is crazy, and higher than when I was just trying to do "normal" SDI.

There's a set recorded (but not yet uploaded) where I hit it a lot, I'll link it when it's upped, but I've literally never seen any ganon have this much success at SDI out of fox up air than I did the other day and it was kind of unintentional. @ -ACE- try this out and explain to me why it works so well lol.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Battlefield movement tip:

Backwards fulljump will NIL on the lower plat.

And wavelanding off a platform and jumping immediately will NIL on the upper platform. Mix in buffered shield drops for both of these things and BF is by far the best stage for Ganon in terms of movement. Just one more reason it is arguably better than Yoshi's in some cases.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

You guys wanna know some ****? It's about SDI out of fox up air. Because I suck at the precise timing for SDI inputs, I've been doing this thing lately where I do a "dash dance" whenever I expect fox to up air. Idk how or why, but it works. A lot. Like the success rate is crazy, and higher than when I was just trying to do "normal" SDI.

There's a set recorded (but not yet uploaded) where I hit it a lot, I'll link it when it's upped, but I've literally never seen any ganon have this much success at SDI out of fox up air than I did the other day and it was kind of unintentional. @ -ACE- try this out and explain to me why it works so well lol.

as someone who struggles with SDI this information could be very useful to me...

Gotta test it out next time I play a Fox

 

[-ACE-]

@ PseudoTurtle

I kind of quarter circle for fox uair, at times where it's actually possible I get it almost 50%.

I'll try out the DD motion, but my left thumb isn't like yours lmao. I'm fairly certain you're securing at least one SDI input every time you use that method, which is def good. Do you do this motion one way or the other depending on spacing?

 

[PseudoTurtle]

And wavelanding off a platform and jumping immediately will NIL on the upper platform. Mix in buffered shield drops for both of these things and BF is by far the best stage for Ganon in terms of movement. Just one more reason it is arguably better than Yoshi's in some cases.

Yoshi's is ganon's best stage. Blast zones and stage size are king.

@ PseudoTurtle

I kind of quarter circle for fox uair, at times where it's actually possible I get it almost 50%.

I'll try out the DD motion, but my left thumb isn't like yours lmao. I'm fairly certain you're securing at least one SDI input every time you use that method, which is def good. Do you do this motion one way or the other depending on spacing?

I don't. Honestly, I just spam it, no thought really goes into it either way, but I SDI'd out of maybe 50% or more of fox's up airs AS GANON. I've never seen this done before, and it was recorded. I'll be sure to link you guys to the video when it gets uploaded to youtube. Too bad I lost lol

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

linguini you going to vs sunday?

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Yoshi's is ganon's best stage. Blast zones and stage size are king.

I actually don't really like Yoshi's. My favourite stage is Dreamland in most MUs. I like the space. Yoshi's is too small for me.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

BF vs who ever.

 

[tm]

Battlefield movement tip:

Backwards fulljump will NIL on the lower plat.

Yep. also happens on dreamland

 

[-ACE-]

BF/YS are G tier (Ganon/God tier).

The other stages (regarding counterpicking) really depend on matchups, styles, and why you lost the previous match; among other things. They must be chosen carefully.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

I always thought it was kinda wierd that if you do that backwards jump thing on the platform and as you land hold forward slightly ganon is slanted for a bit. gonna check frame data to see his fastest way to get on a platform. or does someone already know?

 

[-ACE-]

I'd say jump +dj wL has it, with backwards fulljump wL second. But I really don't know and **** it's close.

Edit: I sorta misread that. I think backwards fulljump NIL is hard to beat.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

BF/YS are G tier (Ganon/God tier).

The other stages (regarding counterpicking) really depend on matchups, styles, and why you lost the previous match; among other things. They must be chosen carefully.

Glad you brought this up. Azzu, local Chicago falco counterpicks me to Dreamland after yoshi's game one (we always strike there and I win 99% of the time... lol then he beats me game 3, super annoying) and he wins almost every time. For the longest time, I thought Dreamland was a terrible falco stage and refused to go there, even considered banning it at one point.

Until I started experimenting just for ****s and counterpicking hindawg / other falcos there and pulling out wins. It all depends on style and I don't think counterpicks should be limited to what you think would favor you in a certain matchup, etc. While matchup should be your first go-to point in deciding a stage, I think style, stage limitations / why you lost should be next in your decision making process. It's a tough call. Sometimes I ban Stadium vs Falco, sometimes FD. All depends on the falco.

 

[-ACE-]

Good post.

DL64 cp is like... "I will out-neutral you bro."

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I feel like I'm one of the few Ganon mains who is actually really comfortable on Fountain. Someone prove me wrong?

 

[-ACE-]

I feel like I'm one of the few Ganon mains who is actually really comfortable on Fountain. Someone prove me wrong?

Bizz took a game off gahtzu there, Kage loves it compared to fd... Probly Emilio and I hate it most lol.

I'm starting to like it slightly more because of dair/edge cancel shenanigans, and obviously the blast zones are clutch for Ganon, I've just never liked how low plats kill SHFFL fair.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I feel like I'm one of the few Ganon mains who is actually really comfortable on Fountain. Someone prove me wrong?

I used to hate it, now it's my favorite counterpick against fox if battlefield and yoshi's are out. I almost never ban it and don't mind striking there vs peach / sheik. Overall, I think it's looked upon in a pretty positive light by most ganons that don't reside in FL.

I still don't like it vs marth and would prefer to take falcon back to battlefield if I lost there and he bans yoshi's, even though FoD is probably better than battlefield. But better FoD than dreamland vs falcon IMO.

The main problem I have with FoD now is, like Dave said, the low plat heights can really screw up your fairs and stuff edge guard / ledge pressure attempts. That gets annoying. One of the main reasons I don't like it vs marth, actually, is because sometimes you can't SHFFL / AC bairs to create a pressure situation when marth is on the ledge (and SHFFL'd / AC'd bairs are the best thing you can do when marth is on the ledge 99% of the time). Bad stuff.

People who say you should "always" pick a stage based on character matchup or blah blah blah are idiots. If you're not comfortable there, don't counterpick it. That's just dumb. But what I think you should do is, if it's technically a stage you "should" like, practice it in friendlies or practice tech skill / setups on that stage until you're more comfortable with it.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Alright so since I'm 100% confirmed to going to BH5, I want to crash with some Ganon homies in their room. I don't care how many people are already there, I will sleep on the floor if I have to, and I will pay evenly according to the split for the room, so let me know if you guys wouldn't mind me staying in your room for the weekend. I already talked with @ PseudoTurtle about it in ppmd's chat, but I just wanted to bring attention to it here just to get things figured out.

@Divinokage @spider_sense @ Coastward ???

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Yoshi's is ganon's best stage. Blast zones and stage size are king.

See, I'm starting to think it really depends on the matchup. If I want to have the best mobility and that pesky battlefield ledge, I'm going to BF. If I want to kill early, I'm going to go to Yoshi's. But sometimes, even BF can let you kill faster than Yoshi's. If you're setting up edge guards a lot, BF is better because that ledge eats up some of their recovery options.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Speaking of weird stages, I kinda like pokemon. You can be real cirspy with your movement there and surprise people. And you have that under 100 ledge attack invincibility gimmick by the cliff. You can also drop from the cliff ledge into a uair and grab the ledge below as soon as your uair hitbox goes away. And then you can tournament winner back up with invincibility. That like that catches people off guard in cliff fights. Also shield drop uair on the weird ass platforms on some of the stages allows you take control of center stage real easy once they've learned to respect it.

 

[Coastward]

@ RedmanSSBM i MIGHT have an open spot in my room, it'd be with 5 other people thought so idk if you'd be down.

i'll get back to you on info about splitting and **** and if the spot is still open.