Coastward
Smash Lord
that luigi one was sickkkkkkkkkkk
also, i still dont understand how we get away with side-b shieldgrab punishes so much.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Linguini
- Start date
also, i still dont understand how we get away with side-b shieldgrab punishes so much.
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
LOL right? Everyone tries to shield grab like it's 2006 or some ****. Blows my mind, but I'll take the free jab. So, for anyone curious, that was the amateur top 8 finals round robin. I lost my first two sets against people I shouldn't be losing to. I was playing terribly lol, basically went from ALMOST beating vro to losing to two people who I've never lost to.
So, I said **** this **** and decided I wanted to just style on everyone and do silly things that shouldn't work. I also made it into the "pro" top 8, which is this Saturday at around 6:00 (central) on twitch.tv/expgamingil (half of my sets will be streamed)... needless to say, the TO thinks I shouldn't be allowed to compete in amateur bracket anymore lol.
This is huge for me, as I'm not "expected" to take a set off of anybody in the bracket - I just barely made it in at the 8th spot. But if I can take sets off of people that I have close sets with, but just barely can't edge it out, that would be a breakthrough for me.
So, I said **** this **** and decided I wanted to just style on everyone and do silly things that shouldn't work. I also made it into the "pro" top 8, which is this Saturday at around 6:00 (central) on twitch.tv/expgamingil (half of my sets will be streamed)... needless to say, the TO thinks I shouldn't be allowed to compete in amateur bracket anymore lol.
This is huge for me, as I'm not "expected" to take a set off of anybody in the bracket - I just barely made it in at the 8th spot. But if I can take sets off of people that I have close sets with, but just barely can't edge it out, that would be a breakthrough for me.
Last edited:
YvngFlameHoe
Smash Ace
Coastward
Smash Lord
that feel when you go buster mode and get 9th to a sheik but people say you've improved...
gonna be getting a CRT soon so i'll finally be able to practice melee
gonna be getting a CRT soon so i'll finally be able to practice melee
Last edited:
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Beat scythe's falco! But then he went falcon and won the set. I might finally be starting to learn the falco matchup, which would be cool... Even though azzu bodied me lol
I'm getting there boys. Tune in this Saturday to see if ganon can actually compete with Chicago's finest.
Oh and I finally beat 14k! God we were both so nervous during that set lol
I'm getting there boys. Tune in this Saturday to see if ganon can actually compete with Chicago's finest.
Oh and I finally beat 14k! God we were both so nervous during that set lol
Last edited:
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Lol spidey left his cube here, I get 3 days to practice.that feel when you go buster mode and get 9th to a sheik but people say you've improved...
gonna be getting a CRT soon so i'll finally be able to practice melee
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
Well I just got a Wii so I'm going to be labbing it up in 20xx. The first thing I'm going to do is find the zones on all stages in which Ganon has guaranteed tech chases on fast fallers. Like, obviously he can cover everything with a grab on a platform or under a platform. But there are certain weird spots where you're kinda diagonally under a platform or facing away from the ledge with a grab that can be awkward to cover. So I'm gonna try to optimize these situations.
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
Oh and tournament update:
My hangover tournament I wound up getting 5th in singles and 4th in teams. Not happy about it, but I know I would've taken the whole thing if I didn't have a raging head ache the entire time. Anyway, gonna start attending NGP soon now that the MA scene is blowing up. Our weekly is literally the biggest in the world right now. Get jelly.
My hangover tournament I wound up getting 5th in singles and 4th in teams. Not happy about it, but I know I would've taken the whole thing if I didn't have a raging head ache the entire time. Anyway, gonna start attending NGP soon now that the MA scene is blowing up. Our weekly is literally the biggest in the world right now. Get jelly.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
How many at each weekly?
I just checked and vs probably averages just under 50 melee entrants, mid 20's being the low end and some tourneys closer to 80.
I just checked and vs probably averages just under 50 melee entrants, mid 20's being the low end and some tourneys closer to 80.
Last edited:
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
We've been consistently breaking 100 recently.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
That's badass!
You should post the challonge link for the next tournament on here when they make it.
Oh yeah, and VIDS!!
You should post the challonge link for the next tournament on here when they make it.
Oh yeah, and VIDS!!
Last edited:
YvngFlameHoe
Smash Ace
I was playing Blea y-day and he said Linguini went Even with him and Porkchops....... My **** is so hard
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Lol yeah I was there. He's still crazy good.
He also beat me probly like 8 to 3 and I'm fairly strong in the ditto.
I sea you lurking Emilio. You should play more bruh.
He also beat me probly like 8 to 3 and I'm fairly strong in the ditto.
I sea you lurking Emilio. You should play more bruh.
Last edited:
SwiftNinjaBlackMan
Smash Apprentice
wow i never thought about using the grounded wizard's foot when falco or fox side b im going to start doing that :D
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Doing some experimenting. After a fresh dthrow, FALCO will land on the lower platforms of the following stages at these corresponding DI's and damage percents.
Battlefield:
No DI: lands starting at 78%
DI Behind: starting at 119%
DI away: starting at 75%
Yoshi's (Ganon not standing on the slant):
No DI: starting at 42%, consistently at 43%
DI Behind: starting at 80%
DI away: starting at 37%
DL64
No DI: starting at 107%
DI Behind: starting at 151%
DI away: starting at 105%
Battlefield:
No DI: lands starting at 78%
DI Behind: starting at 119%
DI away: starting at 75%
Yoshi's (Ganon not standing on the slant):
No DI: starting at 42%, consistently at 43%
DI Behind: starting at 80%
DI away: starting at 37%
DL64
No DI: starting at 107%
DI Behind: starting at 151%
DI away: starting at 105%
Last edited:
aHarmlessCup
Smash Rookie
Edgeguards with Ganon feels so right (a gfycat a while back) http://gfycat.com/AffectionateRashCoyote
Linguini
Smash Master
dave, I prob will soon. graduating from uf this sat (hype) and gonna be back in sofla for the near future after that. Been traveling a lot over the past month so haven't had much of a chance.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Word, congrats man!
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Sheik on BF:
No DI: lands at 57% fresh, 61% stale.
DI behind: stale is near like 90% so..... (ez test cg lvl1 cpu)
DI away: lands at 54% fresh, (guessing 58% stale)
I was a little ambiguous with my last statement. All percents are before dthrow.
No DI: lands at 57% fresh, 61% stale.
DI behind: stale is near like 90% so..... (ez test cg lvl1 cpu)
DI away: lands at 54% fresh, (guessing 58% stale)
I was a little ambiguous with my last statement. All percents are before dthrow.
Last edited:
Coastward
Smash Lord
so for some random reason, i have a decent peach at my disposal. are there any matchups that peach has the upper-hand on ganon besides ics?
gmBottles
Fun Haver
Nobody should convince you to pick up a character, it should be something you want to do all on your own.
I definitely didn't have anybody trying to convince me to pick up Bowser but here I am.
I definitely didn't have anybody trying to convince me to pick up Bowser but here I am.
You're forgetting an option!
gmBottles
Fun Haver
Well it'll be different from person to person. I like Ganondorf because he plays pretty similar to Bowser. Both of them have pretty strong punish games and hit like an eighteen wheeler.
It'll depend on how you like to play and such. Just try out the character and you should be able to tell if they're right for you.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Reasons to pick up Ganondorf
http://youtu.be/zt1Hd8PfwVs
http://youtu.be/ZlwlvUyKSII
http://youtu.be/yr_3c_AVSD8
http://youtu.be/oLHbdM0tRG8
Last edited:
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
Interesting finds for Yoshi's in particular. I would've thought much higher for the most part. BF and DL are no surprise really. I'm going to be hypothesizing that uthrow is the best option in MOST instances in which a throw will land someone on a platform under the majority of DI choices. This is because I believe off a uthrow you have two great options available:
1. React to tech on platform with a combination of bair and uair (dependent on stage of course) or fair in some instances.
Basically, if they tech in a direction that puts them behind you, bair can be used on reaction. Because bair hits harder than uair, this would be optimal in some situations. Uair can be used to cover all tech options on reaction. But given how bair can really only be used to cover a tech that is behind you (perhaps pivot bair could be used on reaction. I'll have to test this) uair is what you should use when someone techs in front of you. These are decent punishes. However, it is to be noted that a well placed fair covers at least two of the three tech options and hits much harder at lower percents relative to other punishes. So now we begin to question what optimization is in the first place. Is it worth the 1/3 chance you will miss to get such a strong punish off at lower percents? Or is it better to go for what is always guaranteed? I'm hypothesizing that fair will be a more optimal punish depending on the circumstances of the set/game. For example: let's say you are up by any amount within a game over your opponent. Unless they are a total scrub and you know they will do the same one to two tech options on a platform each time, it is probably best to cover every option on reaction. But if you are down, it might be best to take some risks and hope they pay off.
2. Jump (or double jump depending on the stage (I have my own options on what is optimal on each stage in terms of jumps to waveland/perfect land, but that's a discussion for a time in the future when I've mastered Ganon's movement)) into waveland grab
What I really like about this option is that if you get a grab as Ganon on a platform against a fast faller, you should be able to land a great punish. Given the size of dair's hitbox, you should be able to cover two tech options on some platforms and grab locations in several instances. At least that's what I'm hypothesizing. I'll be testing all this out over the course of the next few weeks. So far my findings have shown that bair into grab covers every option on all platforms regardless of size. And while in some situations, like when you are facing right on the left platform, dthrow bair covers two options, and those options both will result in bair sending a fast faller quite a bit offstage, dthrow bair grab is a very optimal platform setup, I am sure that dair will serve as another slight risk but high gains kind of option coverage that you should be utilizing when you are down in a game and need to make some plays. Another idea I had is you dthrow at low percents when you are facing away from whatever ledge you are closets to, drop through uair to get a tipman from a platform off if they tech in a position where they're behind you, and grab if they are in front of you. You can also utilize this if you get next to a person who has a missed a tech that you failed to punish immediately. Except what you do is shield to cover getup attack. If they roll behind you, shield drop uair. If they getup attack or roll/getup into a position that is in front of you, regrab.
And even in instances where uthrow doesn't land someone on a platform, perhaps you can still cover that with a regrab on Falcon or a tilt on a spacie. These are just the ideas that are coming to my head. We'll see what actually works and what doesn't. But I believe this is an area in the Ganon tech chasing game that hasn't really been explored much yet. We all know the basics of tech chasing fast fallers utilizing reads and multiple option coverage. But there doesn't seem to exist a guide on the zones in which you have total option coverage and how to exploit this advantage.
Last edited:
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
Off a grab missed tech should always be covered. But there are definitely some situations in which it is impossible to cover missed tech. Like if you get a ftilt that knocks someone down and they fail to tech but you are too far away to get there.
The biggest problem with specifically waiting to get a stronger punish off missed tech is you have to sacrifice time you'd be using to position yourself to cover other tech options. The goal of my zone option coverage system is to find places where missed tech/tech in place can be covered in super hard ways like dair while also covering another tech option. Unless you can consistently force miss techs, it's time to give up on relying on that. I'm finding that more and more space animals in my region just don't miss techs off the usual setups anymore due to understanding how they work. And honestly, I think that's just spacies in general.
Frosty Yeti
Smash Rookie
Pseudoturtle how do you hax dash DJ and then waveland back onto the platform on battelfield. I never seem to go high enough
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Bro that **** is hard. I have only been able to land on the plat once. If you can RLD you're already pretty ****ing technical.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
@
X WaNtEd X
The AC bair/grab trap on a plat is very legit, as is techchasing with grab, at percents where a simple aerial won't put them offstage. Offstage is always best, and I think you'll run into trouble trying to pivot bair tech options on reaction, but you're bringing some good stuff to the table.
The importance of uthrow all depends on Ganon's position, and determining this is as easy as asking yourself "what if they DI full away?" Uthrow is best when DI'ing away leads your opponent to either land on a platform or
go offstage (as we know), so it's important to wL FORWARD and grab them, so that it's always a trap (be near the edge of the plat, facing the edge of the plat, so that you're facing either offstage or facing the top plat). DI behind will always give you an easy ftilt/regrab/bair.
If you have a fastfaller grabbed by the edge of a plat, but facing the center of the plat (offstage is behind you), I'd dthrow so that you can still followup DI away, not to mention a drop through tipman can KO DI behind.
Edit: typos, clarification.
X WaNtEd X
The AC bair/grab trap on a plat is very legit, as is techchasing with grab, at percents where a simple aerial won't put them offstage. Offstage is always best, and I think you'll run into trouble trying to pivot bair tech options on reaction, but you're bringing some good stuff to the table.
The importance of uthrow all depends on Ganon's position, and determining this is as easy as asking yourself "what if they DI full away?" Uthrow is best when DI'ing away leads your opponent to either land on a platform or
go offstage (as we know), so it's important to wL FORWARD and grab them, so that it's always a trap (be near the edge of the plat, facing the edge of the plat, so that you're facing either offstage or facing the top plat). DI behind will always give you an easy ftilt/regrab/bair.
If you have a fastfaller grabbed by the edge of a plat, but facing the center of the plat (offstage is behind you), I'd dthrow so that you can still followup DI away, not to mention a drop through tipman can KO DI behind.
Edit: typos, clarification.
Last edited:
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Fox, falco, sheik, pikachu, falcon, IC's, samus, luigi, doc, mario... Error: maximum number of characters reached
gmBottles
Fun Haver
Might as well main Peach with that Fakku sponsorship
Last edited:
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Coastward
Smash Lord
nah i was playing peach at a smashfest last night and it was complete donkey ass. my fox is better but **** that, just gonna keep going with ganon.
gmBottles
Fun Haver
Then again maybe maining Ganon and the Fakku sponsorship go hand in hand. Just look at that bulge when you taunt!
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
@
-ACE-
When I was talking about uthrow setups, I meant I think in my positions where you could throw someone on a platform that uthrow would be better than dthrow. But I'm going to try everything and decide for myself what I think is better.
I think pivot bair has a chance of working for a tech roll. I'm skeptical of it working on tech in place. In fact, I'm almost sure it won't work. But we'll see.
WL into grab off a throw I think is going to not be a guaranteed setup on at least some stages. I just don't think Ganon is fast enough to fully take advantage of his frame advantage here. Against spacies I think it will be an option you'll have to be very warry to use because you could get shined. I think it will be a much better option against Falcon.
At the same time, because it sets up for such a nasty punish, it might be worth the risk, so to speak. You risk missing the grab, but you have a good chance of hitting it because they'll have to be super fast to react to it and they'll probably be preparing to DI your aerial instead of spot dodging or shining your grab attempt. It's just like using the fair to cover 2/3 tech options. You have to decide if you want to guarantee a punish or if you want to take a risk to get a bigger punish.
-ACE-
When I was talking about uthrow setups, I meant I think in my positions where you could throw someone on a platform that uthrow would be better than dthrow. But I'm going to try everything and decide for myself what I think is better.
I think pivot bair has a chance of working for a tech roll. I'm skeptical of it working on tech in place. In fact, I'm almost sure it won't work. But we'll see.
WL into grab off a throw I think is going to not be a guaranteed setup on at least some stages. I just don't think Ganon is fast enough to fully take advantage of his frame advantage here. Against spacies I think it will be an option you'll have to be very warry to use because you could get shined. I think it will be a much better option against Falcon.
At the same time, because it sets up for such a nasty punish, it might be worth the risk, so to speak. You risk missing the grab, but you have a good chance of hitting it because they'll have to be super fast to react to it and they'll probably be preparing to DI your aerial instead of spot dodging or shining your grab attempt. It's just like using the fair to cover 2/3 tech options. You have to decide if you want to guarantee a punish or if you want to take a risk to get a bigger punish.