Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[-ACE-]

You bring up good points man, just don't doubt the plat wL grab so much. You can catch spacies too. Totally depends on the situation as we all know.

 

[-ACE-]

Something someone should look into: when you dair your opponent on a platform, if you L-cancel shield drop fp dj fp dair, it comes out so quickly. Like so quickly that you could almost land 2 dairs in stun. But you obviously don't need to fp dair, you can use the floatiness of the dj to cover more options.

Next time you stomp someone on a plat, drop through and dj immediately and think of your options. Pretty cool imo, the way the dj feels when techchasing a restricted opponent.

I feel like dair, L-cancel shield drop dj uair would be sick.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Pseudoturtle how do you hax dash DJ and then waveland back onto the platform on battelfield. I never seem to go high enough

**** is hard man lol. First, practice your RLDs, once you get those down, the DJ waveland on platform requires that you jump immediately (like within 2 frames of pressing R) while flicking the stick in the direction of the stage (like the super wavedash from samus). On battlefield, it's near frame and pixel perfect. If you wanna practice, I'd say to do it on yoshis because the timing is slightly less strict and you can do the full waveland on the platform, meaning you can RLD DJ waveland fair in the middle of the stage. This is great because opponents will dash dance near the middle, trying to bait out a waveland jab / ftilt. Now you fair them and they have no way to pressure you when you're on the ledge.

 

[Coastward]

so whos confirmed for big house so far? we really need to get a giant photo of everyone.

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

@ -ACE- the link under yo name doesn't play all the way thru

 

[Frosty Yeti]

**** is hard man lol. First, practice your RLDs, once you get those down, the DJ waveland on platform requires that you jump immediately (like within 2 frames of pressing R) while flicking the stick in the direction of the stage (like the super wavedash from samus). On battlefield, it's near frame and pixel perfect. If you wanna practice, I'd say to do it on yoshis because the timing is slightly less strict and you can do the full waveland on the platform, meaning you can RLD DJ waveland fair in the middle of the stage. This is great because opponents will dash dance near the middle, trying to bait out a waveland jab / ftilt. Now you fair them and they have no way to pressure you when you're on the ledge.

**** man that's crazy, thanks b

 

[-ACE-]

@ -ACE- the link under yo name doesn't play all the way thru

The 4 second link in my Sig? This?

https://youtu.be/854sLMQL4do

sh uair, wL.

 

[Frosty Yeti]

Did u guys know that if you are at the edge of one of the battlefield platforms (closest to middle) and you do a grounded wizard's foot, it will ledge cancel on the other platform in a fashion similar to falco's side b

 

[-ACE-]

Lol yep, it's pretty jank but grounded wizkick definitely edge cancels and can surprise people.

 

[-ACE-]

Well, dair to drop through dj dair is actually a true combo without shield drop. Just did it in training mode on Ganon at 30%. Then I believe you'd have time to grab tech in place or shield getup attack, which I feel could be somewhat common since they'll probably panic lol. I was not aware

I really don't think this is great, but I'm in the process of finding out how good it is. Sometimes I'll dthrow a fastfall on a plat and drop through dj. I think the floatiness of the dj can allow for extra aerial mindgames (fake like you're covering one option, but drift back at the last second and punish the one he thought was safe). That's IF you're playing someone that reacts well and can choose good tech options at the last second. Some people decide where there're going mad early lol

Edit: I also didn't know you can dropzone uair, dj fair, and make it back to ledge until now (never tried it aside from swaggy suicide ko shenanigans). Timing is tight.

 

[Superspright]

Lol yep, it's pretty jank but grounded wizkick definitely edge cancels and can surprise people.

Wait wait...what? This I haven't experimented with...is it an actual edge-cancel?

 

[RedmanSSBM]

so whos confirmed for big house so far? we really need to get a giant photo of everyone.

Right now I am registered but have not worked out ride or housing plans. I'll be sure to do this once Smash Con is over.

 

[-ACE-]

It's like a tad slower since you kinda fall into it but yeah it cancels the cooldown if spaced right. Still super punishable lol

 

[-ACE-]

Smash Con today, nerd hype. It's sad how much I like unlimited data LOL. On that note if someone wants me to do a review of a match, link it up (but never play link) and I'll have a look.

twitch.tv/vgbootcamp

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Shoutouts to @ L Linguini for Graduating from UF today! I hope to see you at more tournaments man. What are your plans for the future? Still gonna be DJing? Making Music? Kicking ass with Ganondorf?

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I beat vro 3-1! Took a game off ORLY, took two off hindawg. Didn't do well overall, but I'm happy with my win over vro, who I'd give #3-4 in Chicago.

About ****ing time.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I beat vro 3-1! Took a game off ORLY, took two off hindawg. Didn't do well overall, but I'm happy with my win over vro, who I'd give #3-4 in Chicago.

About ****ing time.

Good **** man! I know what it's like to finally get that win on someone who's just kept beating you.

 

[VegiLohrd]

So two questions: I'm going to Big House, so can I bother you all to show me how to git gud.

and what practical uses does nair have?

 

[-ACE-]

Ganon mains are awesome and love talking Ganon, I don't think you'll have a problem.

Nair is not very disjointed and typically isn't used in neutral to win exchanges. The first hit of nair however has the smallest amount of kb out of all of his aerials, so it can be used to force them to tech on a plat (free hit) where a uair would send them too far (no free hit). If you time and space it so that you hit a semi-floaty with the first hitbox and L-cancel immediately, you can follow up with fair at low percents. It's also not bad for damage if you get both hits, but the second hitbox will give you only that, damage.

 

[-ACE-]

http://youtu.be/XmCflwJ8GBo

0:40

That simple yet beautiful nair combo deserves its own post.

 

[Duel]

http://youtu.be/XmCflwJ8GBo

0:40

That simple yet beautiful nair combo deserves its own post.

Looks like me every time I practice on the CPU =D lol

 

[PseudoTurtle]

So two questions: I'm going to Big House, so can I bother you all to show me how to git gud.

Anytime. Find me at big house and I'll play as long as you want

 

[RedmanSSBM]

So I went to a local today and I got 4th out of a good number of people. I swear to God this is the third tournament that someone not from Charlotte who is also really good came out to a local and I played in Loser's Semis ROFL. I alternated back and forth between Captain Falcon and Ganondorf, having two really close sets with some local players who have gotten much better, and bodying this Sheik player with Falcon to the point where she switched to Marth and went FD for whatever reason.

I then did some best of 5's with a few of the other good players who entered the tournament that I didn't get to play. I first played a pretty good Fox main where game one was pretty rough as Falcon on Yoshi's, but then Game 2 was really close as Ganon, but I messed up twice where I had an edgehog and my c-stick did the thing where instead of rolling it makes me fair from the ledge, and I died cause of that ROFL. I also was at last stock and edgehogging and I forgot to refresh my invincibility at the ledge to upair Fox and I got Firefox stage spiked. Then I took him to Dreamland as Falcon and he went Marth, so that was a relatively easy win. Then he just took me to FoD as Falco and totally bopped me there rofl.

I then did a best of 5 with a rising Marth main from my area, and it turns out that he's just really solid vs Falcon, but not so much vs. Ganon. He beat me on game 1 on Battlefield as Falcon, but then I switched to Ganon and went to Yoshi's and I won there convincingly. Then he took me to FD, I stayed Ganon, and I clutched it out last stock, then he took me there again and he kind of got bodied haha.

The last best of 5 that I did was against Bl@ckChris. The first game was a massacre, as I got 4-stocked by his Fox on Battlefield as Falcon. But then Game 2 I CPed as Ganon to Yoshi's, and I ended up beating his Fox there. Right after that, he went back to Yoshi's as Ganon and we had a super tight Ganon ditto match on that stage, as it got down to last stock, I got a grab on Bl@ckChris and I chaingrabbed him from like 5% to 60% and got the full DI behind multiple times. He got scared and was recovering poorly, but I missed my bair and then got hit by some Ganon shenanigans and he clutched it out, but he sure as hell breathed a sigh of relief right after. I then CPed as Falcon to FD and pretty much got 4-stocked again rofl. It's nice to know that my Ganon is still up to par and going toe-to-toe with both of Chris' characters. I feel pretty happy about that.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I teamed with MattDotZebb the other day at a local and got third. Wasn't that great of a performance from both of us. We both tried to cover the same options every time lol.

I was losing to this Falco in tourney yesterday. He was beating me in friendlies and then we had to play in bracket losers side. My dorf lost the first game. I really didn't want to go out early in bracket, so I pulled out Zelda and won the next two games. They were so ****ing close. I had to make 2 stock comebacks on both of them. I'm really glad I have a wonky character no one knows how to play against under my belt lol.

I'm trying to play as many Falcos in my area to learn the matchup because I shouldn't have to pull out another character just to beat a random Falco.

 

[-ACE-]

Pocket ZELDA lmao

http://youtu.be/K2RcnnV3cBQ

 

[Linguini]

Shoutouts to @ L Linguini for Graduating from UF today! I hope to see you at more tournaments man. What are your plans for the future? Still gonna be DJing? Making Music? Kicking *** with Ganondorf?

thanks man! working at henny & moet atm but hopefully i'll be doing more of all 3. hax has been trying to convince me that ganon isn't tourney viable anymore and I would love to prove him wrong. Will certainly be wrecking ******* with ganon in the near future...gonna get some hyperbolic training in with porkchops this week

 

[PseudoTurtle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQkMO9bcmt8
This matchup is ****ing garbage

@ L Linguini @ Divinokage you guys have beaten kels- teach me. Teach me everything.

I can beat people that beat kels as long as they don't play fox, but I can't deal with fox, it's a huge weakness. @ -ACE- and anyone else: all critiques are more than welcome.

 

[Divinokage]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQkMO9bcmt8
This matchup is ****ing garbage

@ L Linguini @ Divinokage you guys have beaten kels- teach me. Teach me everything.

I can beat people that beat kels as long as they don't play fox, but I can't deal with fox, it's a huge weakness. @ -ACE- and anyone else: all critiques are more than welcome.

You look like you're afraid of Fox DD and you are constantly fighting in your own corner. It should be the opposite.. you cant give him room to DD or else all those waveland off the platforms dont serve anything. You got caught a lot of the times doing nothing when you should be actively trying to punish him, maybe those proper reactions at the right time are still too slow to deal with Kels.

 

[-ACE-]

Well, you had a lot of opportunities to tomahawk that set. Kelly shielded basically every time you had any type of frame advantage. If he was still in lag when you left the ground the shield was going up. Nasty out of plat wL... they often expect the aerial.

More buffered rolls. Obviously getting repetitive is never great but they are just too good not to use. It's about respecting his shine. There are patterns to his shield pressure, you can see this and your rolls should get smarter/safer throughout the set.

But definitely try to shield less in general, keep up your efforts to stay mobile in neutral, and try to always be slightly more of a reaction-based player than you were yesterday. Making good decisions midair helps. It's just very hard to get a read on fox sometimes, Kelly was playing mad crisp.

More ASDI and SDI. But you know that. Shield the shine more. Respect it fully.

Throw some new baits into your neutral game, starting thinking about innovative, tricky movement. He was playing super reaction-based so it's tough to throw off his read of what Ganon is going to do/where he'll end up.

Stage control. That **** at 3:20 was because you rolled to the ledge and he did fox stuff. It's tough but you want to play king of the hill a little more in neutral.

Grabs are how we'll push the metagame imo. I don't know how any Ganon is going to constantly beat spacies at this level unless they're getting grabs.

 

[Duel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQkMO9bcmt8
This matchup is ****ing garbage

@ L Linguini @ Divinokage you guys have beaten kels- teach me. Teach me everything.

I can beat people that beat kels as long as they don't play fox, but I can't deal with fox, it's a huge weakness. @ -ACE- and anyone else: all critiques are more than welcome.

My opinion may be unpopular, but I think right now you need to focus more on the fact that you beat Vro, took a game off ORLY, etc, than to focus on getting whooped by Kels. Obviously the fox MU is terrible, and there are things you can improve on, but I think as a ganon main you need to focus on little accomplishments to keep you motivated. Ganon can be very frustrating in many MU's, and basically the way i see it, is if I am now beating someone that used to always beat me, that's a freaking awesome thing. The best part is that we get to play a badass character that most people wish they could main, but don't have the balls to actually stick to. Lets play some friendlies at TBH5, you can teach me some stuff.

 

[-ACE-]

True, but if he keeps SD'ing someone might call him ACE!

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Pocket ZELDA lmao

http://youtu.be/K2RcnnV3cBQ

It's legit dude. They think I'm playing Sheik and ban FOD or some **** and then I'm like DREAMLAND BVTCH.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

All I have to say about Chicago is that our player that gets like 9th-5th at our locals came in and beat all your asses.

Boston > Chicago



But on a more serious note, I watched your set with Kels @ PseudoTurtle . Don't despair man. There were a lot of things you were not doing right for the matchup.

First of all, you kept putting yourself at a strategic disadvantage by going to the platforms like that, especially at the beginning of the set. Stay grounded more.

That leads me to my next point. It's time to stop approaching with fair so much and utilize your ground moves more. When you waveland in, you had a lot of opportunities to grab. But, a lot of the times you jumped, you should wavelanded into something grounded instead of fairing. Maybe also learn how to pivot consistently and work that into your ground game. You could use it to do things like pivot bair that are a lot more safe than fair.

You missed too many edgeguards. Not much more to say on that. You can't miss edgeguards vs. Fox. Instead of going for hard reads, just keep it simple and bair/uair more. It's not worth the swag lol. But if you do want a good swag option that works, RLD double jump uair would cover a lot more options than what you were going for.

 

[SwiftNinjaBlackMan]

Can we have a list of uses for the Neutral Air and when to use it?

 

[PseudoTurtle]

@ Divinokage how do you propose I do that? I agree I was much too scared, but getting in on kels is TOUGH! Would a run in and crouch work? Something like that to see what he does and crouch cancel on reaction?

@ -ACE- and wanted (idk how to tag you): yea I went for the tomahawk too late. Landed one, but I was already ****ed at that point. Good advice otherwise. I know I was shielding too much. I've been practicing shield DI and don't quite know how to apply it: you know how it is with new tech. Anyway, I ended up shielding too much in preparation.

Wanted, waveland in and grab doesn't work vs kels when he is dash dancing. He plays a very reaction based style and will outspace you. Good advice on the edge guarding though, RLD DJ up air is definitely a good edge guard.

@ Duel I know, I'm actually very happy with how I've been playing lately. I consistently take games off of the Chicago elites and my seeding has jumped ~5 places. But I still wanna get better in general and at the fox matchup.

Wanted: idk how the **** mdz came and won everything LMFAO. Kels is such an inconsistent player sometimes. He can beat gravy, gahtzu, sfat, and anyone else who has tried to take a weekly... But loses to mdz lol. He also lost to scythe before, and I came close to beating him. I promise if dart was there that he would've destroyed Matt. No disrespect to Matt, he deserved the win, but damn.

Who's top in Boston? Kels and dart would probably **** em up.

 

[-ACE-]

@ Divinokage
Who's top in Boston? Kels and dart would probably **** em up.

+1 dart is a beast

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Btw I rewatched my set vs vro on twitch (waiting for youtube upload to post here) and wavedash out of shield is broken vs marth. Wavedash OOS and grab after fsmash, WD OOS and ftilt if they're baiting a roll, WD OOS and jab if they're poking you with dtilt and then running away. Completely reverses the pressure and can get you a stock.

Broken.

 

[Duel]

Advice on how to DI after fox throws you off the edge? I keep getting shine gimped by my training partner =(

 

[-ACE-]

DI up or a mixture of up and away and look for airdodge opportunity. If you know he'll get the shine, save your jump and at least try to land on stage and hope he ****s up. If he's off, dj uair him off at all possible. Bad scenario lol

 

[Duel]

DI up or a mixture of up and away and look for airdodge opportunity. If you know he'll get the shine, save your jump and at least try to land on stage and hope he ****s up. If he's off, dj uair him off at all possible. Bad scenario lol

Damn, I never air dodge... one of my many terrible traits I can improve on.