Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[RedmanSSBM]

someone tell me if im stupid but, do you guys think edgeguarding falcon and ganon with grounded down-b would be a reasonable option?

their recoveries are ***, so it'd be easy to hit.

i'm really ****ing bored right now and im just ****ing around with **** LOL

Yeah it's definitely doable. Falcon and Ganon's legs kinda just fling upwards when they flip over from the up-b, and the trajectory is so linear that you can hit it with pretty much anything. You can definitely time a down-b to hit Falcon attempting to sweetspot.

 

[Coastward]

Yeah it's definitely doable. Falcon and Ganon's legs kinda just fling upwards when they flip over from the up-b, and the trajectory is so linear that you can hit it with pretty much anything. You can definitely time a down-b to hit Falcon attempting to sweetspot.

imma try doing it in tournaments, maybe ill swag on @Divinokage this weekend

 

[tm]

someone tell me if im stupid but, do you guys think edgeguarding falcon and ganon with grounded down-b would be a reasonable option?

their recoveries are ***, so it'd be easy to hit.

i'm really ****ing bored right now and im just ****ing around with **** LOL

It's pretty fking easy, and it'll usually work, but you have other equally easy options that won't result in you dying if you **** up.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

It's pretty fking easy, and it'll usually work, but you have other equally easy options that won't result in you dying if you **** up.

Pretty much this lol. You can literally just stand at the edge and jab his legs when they come up, you can ftilt them, dtilt them, like whatever lol. Some options are safer yes, but others will demoralize your opponent more. I think a dsmash might even knock them into the stage resulting in a stage spike.

 

[-ACE-]

someone tell me if im stupid but, do you guys think edgeguarding falcon and ganon with grounded down-b would be a reasonable option?

their recoveries are ***, so it'd be easy to hit.

i'm really ****ing bored right now and im just ****ing around with **** LOL

The first time they tech that **** you'll never do it again.

Also Ian dropped an edgeguard in match 1 vs ghatzu where I would have wizkick spiked him. Reverse uairs often lead to free WF spike setups. But obviously if they're hugging the stage they can tech.

 

[spider_sense]

Well gonna start writing my Ganon bible tomorrow when I'm at VS. I need to get into serious shape before CEO and EVO. Anyways, Psuedo I'll accept your proposal, but we need to do the "Big Mac" challenge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5qMdA8e7dE Whoever taps out or pukes has to play Peach.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Definitely good overall play vs ghatzu. I'll critique if I have time later.

Edit: you had that set won 3-4 times and didn't take the opportunity lol. Nerves from wanting the win so bad I assume.

dude not even nerves. i'm just not confident in my play for some reason. idk how to change this.

ALSO, if you guys could critique this doubles set, i'd really appreciate that. paging @Divinokage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOvZrx6EJMI

Well gonna start writing my Ganon bible tomorrow when I'm at VS. I need to get into serious shape before CEO and EVO. Anyways, Psuedo I'll accept your proposal, but we need to do the "Big Mac" challenge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5qMdA8e7dE Whoever taps out or pukes has to play Peach.

you and your ****ing big mac challenge smh

 

[Moy]

A friend and I did Ganon/ICs the one week our local tournament had doubles only. We had no real gameplan - I'd be interested to hear your strategy with Dizz @ Эикельманн [РУС] .

In any event, looking for critique for these two sets:

https://youtu.be/FVyFm67nRek
https://youtu.be/T28VFqyPis4

Sveet, when playing well, is top 10 in Chicago imo, while ORLY has always been around the top 5. I play these guys all the time at this local, but can never seem to take sets in Melee (PM is another story, since I play a different character).

Doesn't help that Fox and Falcon are the MUs I'm struggling with the most right now.

Again, any help is appreciated.

 

[Coastward]

you guys got quick tips for peach? my pool for saturday has vwins and another peach seeded above me, so im looking for 1st if i can overcome the big booty hoe.

 

[tm]

Go check out Eikelmann's peach guide. Owait :>

Grab lots. Have good grab punishes. Don't approach if she has a turnip.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Go check out Eikelmann's peach guide. Owait :>

Grab lots. Have good grab punishes. Don't approach if she has a turnip.

you cheeky ******* lol i'd make a guide but i'd need some serious help with it. i'm really rusty at making big, detailed walls of text.

adam message me on fb or twitter if you want and we can go over some stuff.

also @ Moy gj tagging me since it's apparently just too difficult for other people here to do. the main strategy was to have me corner one guy while dizz gets the grab and wobbles them. since ganondorf is good at walling people out, it worked out a decent amount of the time, but in some sets he didn't really grab much and well...i asked for critique because i honestly don't know what all we were ****ing up lol so yeah, that's the basic idea. you have to force your meat moutain between the other team and slowly push them aside while ICs go in and get a grab. it would also be nice to have @HoChiMinhTrail speak about this since he understands both characters quite well.

 

[Moy]

also @ Moy gj tagging me since it's apparently just too difficult for other people here to do. the main strategy was to have me corner one guy while dizz gets the grab and wobbles them. since ganondorf is good at walling people out, it worked out a decent amount of the time, but in some sets he didn't really grab much and well...i asked for critique because i honestly don't know what all we were ****ing up lol so yeah, that's the basic idea. you have to force your meat moutain between the other team and slowly push them aside while ICs go in and get a grab. it would also be nice to have @HoChiMinhTrail speak about this since he understands both characters quite well.

Take the text from when someone quotes you, copy and paste. That's all it is.

Thanks for explaining that. My friend doesn't really like wobbling, but I could see how that strategy would work with how consistent Dizz is at it.

I wonder if Trail will respond...he's constantly on and off the map it seems.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Take the text from when someone quotes you, copy and paste. That's all it is.

Thanks for explaining that. My friend doesn't really like wobbling, but I could see how that strategy would work with how consistent Dizz is at it.

I wonder if Trail will respond...he's constantly on and off the map it seems.

ICs can't work in doubles without wobbling imo.

also, maybe some of you can appreciate this. a fan of mine got to it before moxie did it would seem.
https://twitter.com/EikelmannRUS/status/599154680757932032

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Vids from the tourney about a month ago finally uploaded:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ7SejJoDs8 WFs

Ganon vs Sheik. I'm not sure who was playing in this set but I don't think it was actually me. I played like complete trash except for game 3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5dHfEGxfhU LF and part of GF
14:30 for LF - Ganon vs ICs. I won 3-0 with a triple 3 stock. For anyone who watches this, am I doing good stuff in this MU or was my opponent just bad? I'd hate to go up against a better ICs and try the same stuff and get bodied cuz it's bad stuff XD
26:13 for GF1 - Ganon vs Sheik/Falcon/Marth. I won 3-0. Finally starting to play like myself against Sheik. Then he went secondaries and threw me off for set 2 XD
36:06 for half of G1 of GF2. Vids got split weird, you have about 2 minutes of Game 1 of the second set before the vid ends.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwkuRNdXz4Q 4.5 games of GF2

Ganon vs Sheik. I was playing decently I guess, missed way too many CGs and edgeguards (especially edgeguards in game 5) which cost me. If anyone (coughcough @ RedmanSSBM coughcough) wants to do any critiques I'd prefer to have this one looked at. Especially games 4 and 5.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

@ Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir I've already gotten to 5 videos that I'll be critiquing this afternoon. Yours will be first on the critique queue for next Thursday though.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

@ Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir I've already gotten to 5 videos that I'll be critiquing this afternoon. Yours will be first on the critique queue for next Thursday though.

Awesome, that'll give me plenty of time to prepare for GOML

 

[-ACE-]

Got a handful of matches in with Tipman the other day. Wish they were recorded. The eikeldrop to suicide dj dair is real, lol. Walltech uair + dj fair not as swaggy as fair to fair, but much more guaranteed. Ground game is important. Wizkick spikes are underused. High ftilt is a great mixup after landing a spaced aerial on shield (ganon/falcon). Tomahawk.

That's basically what it made me remember. Unfortunately I didn't get added to bracket Thursday and couldn't enter lol. Got some friendlies though and almost my first jv5 on a pm player who recently picked up marth lmao. /420inducedrant

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Yo I updated my Knockdown Data Thread a bit with Data on Ganondorf getting knocked down by other character's moves. I hope to get all of the top tiers in this section. http://smashboards.com/threads/ganondorfs-knockdown-data.360530/

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Doing Ganondorf Match Analysis: http://www.twitch.tv/skytch

 

[PseudoTurtle]

@ Moy Sveet's fox is this: dash dance, up tilt, up smash, and shine. Especially shine.

One thing you gotta do on stage is stomp through his aerials / shines. I remember when I was playing him that that worked quite a bit. And another thing regarding shines- he goes for shine spikes all the time, so much so that it's bad and punishable. You were adapting to it, but by using your up-b early. This is fine, but you'll get punished for your landing lag. Next time, up air him, like you did at 16:39. You'll recover safely.

I'd like to see you dtilt more when he does his pivot up tilt shenanigans. He likes to just stand in place and do it multiple times, so instead of shielding, dash dancing, etc. just dtilt and tech chase.

If he up smashes on shield, that's punishable by wavedash oos --> jab and up-b oos.

Also, next time Sveet jabs you, crouch cancel it into a jab of your own. Or grab. Whichever you prefer.

So, 13:14 is a perfect example of when Sveet went for an unsafe shine. You definitely could have up air'd that one and gotten back safely. Instead, you had to do the dair from the ledge (which was sick, but you basically died from it lol). I would have personally gone for the eikeldrop

 

[RedmanSSBM]

@ Coastward @ Эикельманн [РУС] @ Moy http://www.twitch.tv/skytch/b/659470556

 

[YvngFlameHoe]

What does Ganon have to do vs Link?

 

[Orah]

@ YvngFlameHoe
Like many other ganon matchups you have to get grabs in.
Links pretty easy to chain grab but the matchup can be weird because there aren't too many links around so it can seem bad for ganon. I think you can jab boomerangs and arrows, catch "healthy" bombs, and remember there's PSing too. You want to try to to weave in between his projectiles by fullhopping aerials to close space. This is where you can trick them by full hoping an aerial to dj an aerial/ dj ff waveland jab, grab, ftilt. Be aware of his grab range as it goes far in front of him but a missed grab by link is the perfect opportunity to punish him with a grab or a dair. They will most likely abuse nair like a drug because of how good the hitbox is. Link can juggle you pretty well but then again most characters can combo ganon pretty easily. When you have link in the air be aware of bombs or falling dairs. As far as edge guarding Link, the Tipman can eat thru his hook shot and his up b so try to eikeldrop or ledgehop up air at the right moments. If he gets hit by it and has no bombs he's done. When he's edge guarding always go high, recovering below the stage is asking to be up-b semi spiked. Respect his sheild because they will try to sheild grab you. Try baiting it by doing full hop fastfall tomahawk grabs when he thinks you'll go for the aerial. If you know he's going for the sheild grab, disrespect him by full hop warlock punching him the face for missing the grab. Link also has a pretty good up-b out of sheild and most likely will nair out of sheild too. Its a 60-40 favor for ganon because trades work in Ganons favor and if you can grab him I think you can chain grab him to like 70%. It's not free but can be a fun matchup. Link can take a beating if he doesn't get edge guarded, so getting solid punishes and having clean edge guards are an absolute. ( That's really any Ganon matchup for the most part though.)


Got on stream yesterday but my play was sloppy joe for the most part. Hopefully they upload it soon. I remember ledge jumping a lot when I didn't mean to and SDing a few times. Should've been more calm but I was playing on tilt pretty much the whole time, gotta break some bad habits. Was trying to implement Full hop fairs/dairs to weave through Falco lasers I think it worked once but I really just need to play people as much as I can cuz I practice the tech but the XP against real players is key. I really only play people maybe twice a week at max so I really gotta try to up that number if I want to turn knowledge into wisdom. Learned a lot though so atleast that's something to build on. Sometimes you just gotta go out like a buster.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

What does Ganon have to do vs Link?

https://youtu.be/aFqTeCKAXmk

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

24 hour stream plz come watch omg i'm lonely
twitch.tv/eikelmann

 

[X WaNtEd X]

In speaking of whacky matchups, I'd like to hear some opinions on the DK matchup. I already asked in the Ganon R&D group and got some good advice. Specifically, I'd like to hear how you guys handle good DKs in neutral and how to DI certain moves. I already know edgeguarding him is free and how nasty the punishes are.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

thank you. keep it coming guys.

guys, even if you're lurking, you watch my set, and you happen to see something that hasn't been covered yet, speak up.

Just saw this. I saw you try to shield drop several times from your run. If you got that **** down, you could add a bunch of mixups to your neutral game. Also just adding regular shield drops to your game would help a lot. There were a bunch of times when you were on a platform and you could've punished Ghatzu with shield drop uair.

 

[tm]

https://youtu.be/aFqTeCKAXmk

Niiice. Sick down B at the end. Want to write a Link guide too? :>

 

[Duel]

good news. i actually have a decent set of me for once that can be critiqued.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUJ-_uxmMSY

so embarrassed about those rolls game 2. **** my life.

You completely outplayed him, you missed that one edgeguard game 2, otherwise it would have been a total whooping IMO

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Just saw this. I saw you try to shield drop several times from your run. If you got that **** down, you could add a bunch of mixups to your neutral game. Also just adding regular shield drops to your game would help a lot. There were a bunch of times when you were on a platform and you could've punished Ghatzu with shield drop uair.

it's not really neutral if one of us is in a disadvantageous position lol

i'm working on shield drops though

also tm yeah i'm down

 

[Coastward]

YO @ Эикельманн [РУС] THE PEACH COACHING WORKED, kinda lmao.

k so imma recap my time at toryuken 4.

day 1 pools: had vwins as my 1st seed, i was 2nd. he ended up going fox so ian's tips ended up going down the drain (not really though). got 3rd seed because i lost to a shiek lmao. i moneymatched dizzkidboogie after doubles was done and went 3-1, almost went to game 5. moneymatched some random ganon too, gonna see if i can get those VODs.

played mad friendlies afterwards with vwins, hes too good lol. mentality has improved greatly and i have broken extremely bad habits (i think).

day 2 bracket: played a **** ton of friendlies with kalamazhu and another peach from my region. @ tm , i dont know how you do usually against him, id like to hear your thoughts about your matches with him. definitely got a better understanding of the matchup though. bracket started and i tapped a samus 2-0. played shroomed afterwards and got completely destroyed lol. then i had to play a guy i usually play at my weeklies and i bodied him 2-0. then i played nightmare, who i usually end up playing in GF at my weeklies and bodied him 2-0. then i had to play kjh and lost. it was a 2-0, but it was both 1 stock. dude spams shine so hard rofl.

http://challonge.com/eglms here's the final result, ended up with 17th. happy with my performance, and @Divinokage ended up getting 4th too and he beat @n0ne. here are some of my matches, so hopefully @ RedmanSSBM can critique em sometime soon.

:^)

 

[Bwmat]

I went to a local today, beat this guy who's top 3 around here, that's the first time in foreeeeeeeever, so I'm pretty happy: http://www.twitch.tv/vanstreetbattle/b/660215501?t=3m55s

then I lost to this other falco: http://www.twitch.tv/vanstreetbattle/b/660215501?t=23m59s

then I forfeit because my hands really hurt

edit: the first guy is the one who keeps saying I'm the best ganon in canada lolz

 

[tm]

day 2 bracket: played a **** ton of friendlies with kalamazhu and another peach from my region. @ tm , i dont know how you do usually against him, id like to hear your thoughts about your matches with him. definitely got a better understanding of the matchup though

I've never beaten him. Our games often go to last stock, and I've taken games but he always wins. I feel like neutral vs him is so hard because he always uses turnips, and once he gets a hit his punish game is very good. His edgeguarding could use some work though. KJH always beats me too.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I've never beaten him. Our games often go to last stock, and I've taken games but he always wins. I feel like neutral vs him is so hard because he always uses turnips, and once he gets a hit his punish game is very good. His edgeguarding could use some work though. KJH always beats me too.

my only time playing him was a mm at big house and it was the closest set i've ever had with a peach player before. pretty sure i could beat him.

glad i could help adam.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

it's not really neutral if one of us is in a disadvantageous position lol

i'm working on shield drops though

also tm yeah i'm down

I meant more of the running shield drops as a mixup to your neutral. You could use those while trying to come down on someone from the top platform, which wouldn't necessarily be a disadvantageous position.

 

[tm]

Fun fact: Mr. Brandandorf beat Kzhu at EVO 2014

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Fun fact: Mr. Brandandorf beat Kzhu at EVO 2014

doesn't surprise me. peach players, even armada, are awful vs ganondorf and don't know the matchup.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

doesn't surprise me. peach players, even armada, are awful vs ganondorf and don't know the matchup.

I feel like I'm quite the opposite. I'm naturally awful vs Peach players that know how to gimmick with dsmash, nair and dash attack.

 

[-ACE-]

Armada may not know the intricacies of the matchup as well as someone who actually focuses on exploiting peach's weaknesses (let's face it, hardly anyone takes the time to figure out how to make Ganon's life completely miserable, they have more important matchups to focus on), but to say he is awful is a joke. When he starts camping hard he makes the matchup tough aF for Ganon.

 

[LightKaizo]

I feel like I'm quite the opposite. I'm naturally awful vs Peach players that know how to gimmick with dsmash, nair and dash attack.

This is something I depise with (some) Peach players. This has been a thorn in my side, especially since Im trying to have a secondary Falco and dsmash completely wrecks him. I keep getting dsmash when I try to sweet spot my recovery and if I go high I get fair'd. Any advice VS gimmick abusing Peach players?