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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

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@ -ACE- -ACE- thanks man. Yea its awesome and really hard to do even after lots of practice.

And yea purple killer, what ace said about the removing the moonwalk. I was doing it some in tournament and friendlies today and dropping through with a bair after the Waveland. I find it works best when your opponent is waiting on the platform when you're on the ledge. They expect a ledge dash / ledge hop and usually punish. Imagine their surprise when you end up behind them in a heartbeat.

Sick stuff.

@spider_sense this is faster. Same application, but (I think) harder for your opponent to get used to.
 
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PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

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@ Coastward Coastward I used to have a big problem with getting stuck in a rut.

I find that what helps me is practicing other things, instead of just "trying to get better." For example, focus on shield DI against falco, or power shielding, or going for ridiculous things for edge guards- just on the off chance that what you do may become something new that you can learn and apply. Even if there's something you KNOW works, try something else. The best way to get out of constancy is to experiment.

So today, I actually learned a hell of a lot. The tournament went... Ok. But this was the first time in a really, really long time that I was able to play a lot of different people for an extended period of time.

You guys should've seen my friendlies matches with kels. I took a couple games and felt like I was finally starting to get in his head in some cases. Some of those matches were so close...

It convinced me that I could viably use ganon at a high level. Top 10 in Chicago here I come...

Got completely wrecked by vro (#2 in Chicago now that dart is gone) lol. No johns on that one, that dude is just solid. Got 2-1d by Ripple (huge step up for me). Last match, last stock and it only ended because of a tech flub (**** that).

And, if anyone was wondering, the RLD plat Waveland is extremely viable- I didn't get punished for it a single time. My gimmicks don't work on ripple, but using this with a bair worked 2/2 times in our set. Like I'd mentioned earlier, the best use in my experience is when your opponent is waiting on the platform, expecting a Waveland or a ledge hop. They'll usually drop down with something as soon as they see you get off the ledge, and I'd hit them with the bair every time.

So far, its probably been my most successful mixup off the ledge. I'm sure that'll change once people get used to it, but practice it, ganons! It'll make you good.

One more thing. I know it sounds unnecessarily flashy, but RLD dair is amazing vs marth. Amazing. When ledge drop up air won't hit because they're too low, RLD dair will. Just wait for their double jump. It worked on kels and vro. Nuff said.

Also good vs Luigi.
 
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Эикельманн [РУС]

Эикельманн [РУС]

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PseudoTurtle said:
@ Coastward Coastward I used to have a big problem with getting stuck in a rut.

I find that what helps me is practicing other things, instead of just "trying to get better." For example, focus on shield DI against falco, or power shielding, or going for ridiculous things for edge guards- just on the off chance that what you do may become something new that you can learn and apply. Even if there's something you KNOW works, try something else. The best way to get out of constancy is to experiment.

So today, I actually learned a hell of a lot. The tournament went... Ok. But this was the first time in a really, really long time that I was able to play a lot of different people for an extended period of time.

You guys should've seen my friendlies matches with kels. I took a couple games and felt like I was finally starting to get in his head in some cases. Some of those matches were so close...

It convinced me that I could viably use ganon at a high level. Top 10 in Chicago here I come...

Got completely wrecked by vro (#2 in Chicago now that dart is gone) lol. No johns on that one, that dude is just solid. Got 2-1d by Ripple (huge step up for me). Last match, last stock and it only ended because of a tech flub (**** that).

And, if anyone was wondering, the RLD plat Waveland is extremely viable- I didn't get punished for it a single time. My gimmicks don't work on ripple, but using this with a bair worked 2/2 times in our set. Like I'd mentioned earlier, the best use in my experience is when your opponent is waiting on the platform, expecting a Waveland or a ledge hop. They'll usually drop down with something as soon as they see you get off the ledge, and I'd hit them with the bair every time.

So far, its probably been my most successful mixup off the ledge. I'm sure that'll change once people get used to it, but practice it, ganons! It'll make you good.

One more thing. I know it sounds unnecessarily flashy, but RLD dair is amazing vs marth. Amazing. When ledge drop up air won't hit because they're too low, RLD dair will. Just wait for their double jump. It worked on kels and vro. Nuff said.

Also good vs Luigi.
Click to expand...
DID YOU GET FIRST SEED
 
PseudoTurtle

PseudoTurtle

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Эикельманн [РУС] said:
DID YOU GET FIRST SEED
Click to expand...
Nope. I was close though. I got 2-1'd by my usual teammate cheato, the peach player, and only because I SD'd on the first match. I had him, dude. I'm still so salty lol. So very salty. We're bros, so I don't mind losing to him, but ****, it was so disheartening to have one SD cost the entire set. That match was fully my momentum too...

He beat Scythe, who 2-0'd me. Scythe and cheato both 2-1'd that luigi player LuigiGoShard (from Kentucky) and I 2-0'd him.

**** MAN IF I WON THAT MATCH, I WOULD HAVE HAD FIRST SEED.

At least I 2-0'd LuigiGoShard, he was a pretty solid luigi.



I was so close
 
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Эикельманн [РУС]

Эикельманн [РУС]

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PseudoTurtle said:
Nope. I was close though. I got 2-1'd by my usual teammate cheato, the peach player, and only because I SD'd on the first match. I had him, dude. I'm still so salty lol. So very salty. We're bros, so I don't mind losing to him, but ****, it was so disheartening to have one SD cost the entire set. That match was fully my momentum too...

He beat Scythe, who 2-0'd me. Scythe and cheato both 2-1'd that luigi player LuigiGoShard (from Kentucky) and I 2-0'd him.

**** MAN IF I WON THAT MATCH, I WOULD HAVE HAD FIRST SEED.

At least I 2-0'd LuigiGoShard, he was a pretty solid luigi.



I was so close
Click to expand...
peach? thought he played fox. lemme at him.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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@ PseudoTurtle PseudoTurtle You can most likely throw ripple off now with smaller mixups since he pays such good attention to Ganon. Like just ledgehopping into something. Just a ledgehop + jump + plat wL is very fast, and you always have a dj. Not as fast (and not nearly as nice as the RLD plat wL) but close.

Also try ledgehop > pivot > plat wL. Got this from @spider_sense about a year ago. It happens so quickly people don't know how or when you turned around. Situational (useful when you want the bair) but always looks sick.

Also one thing to consider about RLD dair. It has more range than ledgehop > runoff dair because of where Ganons heel is. If Marth is closer to the stage, runoff dair works a little better imo
 
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RedmanSSBM

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PseudoTurtle said:
Nope. I was close though. I got 2-1'd by my usual teammate cheato, the peach player, and only because I SD'd on the first match. I had him, dude. I'm still so salty lol. So very salty. We're bros, so I don't mind losing to him, but ****, it was so disheartening to have one SD cost the entire set. That match was fully my momentum too...

He beat Scythe, who 2-0'd me. Scythe and cheato both 2-1'd that luigi player LuigiGoShard (from Kentucky) and I 2-0'd him.

**** MAN IF I WON THAT MATCH, I WOULD HAVE HAD FIRST SEED.

At least I 2-0'd LuigiGoShard, he was a pretty solid luigi.



I was so close
Click to expand...
Yo don't let the whole "My SD cost me the set" mentality get to you. It wasn't just one SD that cost you the set, it was a number of things whether you realize or not. You can't blame your losses on one mistake because that is justifying your loss and not looking at why you actually lost. For example, if you were to play someone really solid like Armada, and he SDs, it's usually not gonna matter because he can still outsmart the opponent and adapt. He doesn't let those mistakes get to him and no player really should.

It's never just one mistake. It might feel like a certain mistake is highlighted, but it's never only one mistake. If it was only one mistake then you would win the set cleanly.
 
Ripple

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I don't know why you always bring our games up joe, last time I actually cared to practice this game was BH4.
 
PseudoTurtle

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Why? Because you're always the one guy that's been able to read and bait me like no other because you essentially taught me how to play. I don't always bring it up lol, I did now because its the first time we've played in almost a year. It was a good gauge of my progress. A 2-1 rather than the expected 2-0 is a pretty big milestone for me. Even though its all a walk in the park for you lmao.

Yo Locke, I get where you're coming from, but this ain't armada. If you want to get all technical, sure whatever, I did dumb **** that made me lose the three other stocks. But the end result of the first match was me at maybe 10% and cheato at 120+% on battlefield and an SD. The SD cost me the match, plain and simple.

I do agree with you overall- that's usually true. But this case, that was the BIG factor. Cheato even admitted it after the match and all but apologized after the match.

@ -ACE- -ACE- his bait game in incredible vs ganon. Its really hard to describe, but he'll have you in a position where, for example, a normal marth would down nair, so I'd combat that with a wavedash tilt or up air... But instead of nairing, he would punish the tilt / up air. Its a really weird play style and I think you're right about those small mixups... The mango method vs m2k lmao.

And then there's kels' marth, and that's just silly.

Oh and Ian, he used to play fox, but switched when he finally started to develop some mind games lol. He says enjoys playing peach and I certainly think its his best character.

Our matches were obscenely close, so If you (and your expertise with the peach matchup) played him, well, it'd be fun to watch, to say the least.
 
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Ripple

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I think you need to reexamine what a john actually is
 
Orah

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Yeah so the tourney I was gonna go to Saturday got postponed but I still got to go to a weekly and a smash fest this weekend.
I'm recognizing people's tech patterns more but I'm not inputting fast enough so I end up coming just shy of a follow up.
So that's something I definitely need to work on.
Gonna really try to focus on sheild DI away against Falcos to get sheild grabs.
Just started putting practice into pivoting high f-tilt and like many other aspects of this game it seems more simple than I originally thought it to be. I can get d-tilt sometimes too just gotta really work at it cuz Falcon kinda just blows my s*** up.

I was reading some of the older match up forums where I think @ L Linguini talks about how @Divinokage would reverse waveland/wavedash so his sheild would be facing away from Fox to sheild grab spacey pressure. Does this still work or is nair shine too good?

Anyone ever try tech chasing with the first hit of reverse nair? Might work at mid to high % as a nice mix up.
I was thinking it could also work as a edge guard agaisnt spaceys who side b above ledge so you could do reverse nair> dj bair.

Also @ RedmanSSBM RedmanSSBM is there anyway you can try to post your analysis on YouTube like the one you did of Kage vs west ballz at Apex cuz I use an iPad (need to get a real computer soon) and I can't really check it out all the good info you're sharing on Twitch. Would really appreciate it.

Side note: was playing on pokemon stadium, the fire stage came up, got fox cornered agaisnt the tree and Gerudo Dragoned till his shield broke, then Warlock Punched him to oblivion. He probably could of let himself get hitand teched the tree. But it was still awesome.

Happy Mothers Day!
 
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-ACE-

-ACE-

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I also know if Joe would have said "ripple destroyed me again" you wouldn't have provided a reason as to why it happened, like you did this time (synonymous with john).

I know what Evo is. I also know what a MM is. Do you?
 
Ripple

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out of every time Joe has ever mentioned losing to me in this thread I have never once cared to explain why he lost. I'm not making excuses for why I lost a game, the game should be a grain of salt

and there are certain points at which johns are acceptbable anyways. I hope that joe beats me next time since I don't play melee anymore
 
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-ACE-

-ACE-

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Ripple said:
out of every time Joe has ever mentioned losing to me in this thread I have never once cared to explain why he lost. I'm not making excuses for why I lost a game, the game should be a grain of salt

and there are certain points at which johns are acceptbable anyways. I hope that joe beats me next time since I don't play melee anymore
Click to expand...
Have you thought of a john for backing out of evo MM's?
 
PseudoTurtle

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@ Orah Orah why would you tech chase with nair? Doesn't really sound practical to me because nair is primarily used as a combo continuer, not as a combo starter. IMO, the optimal tech chase is dair or the second hit of dsmash (2nd hit, so they can't tech the first) because those moves have a ton of hit stun and lead to grab / nair / fair / up air, etc.

Stomp or dsmash is def my go to, primarily dsmash because I think it looks the coolest.
 
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Orah

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@ PseudoTurtle PseudoTurtle Yeah idk I was just thinking of different ways of using it because it's Ganons fastest aerial and usually people try to survival di Ganon's moves. Just a thought, ideally you want to turn a tech chase into a combo so my thinking was maybe it could work. Of course I have my doubts because the hitbox is small and opponents might be able to asdi down so you don't get the follow up of the first hit. Maybe that's where the second hit could be useful but to my knowledge the second hit is the equivalent to a weak fair so maybe might as well d-smash, dair, dash dair, or dash fair. Trying to refrain from using gerudo dragon so I can really get the timing right for dash fair.
 
TheMentaculus

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Hello all!

My handle is Mentaculus, and I’m a Ganon main from South Bend, Indiana.

I’ve been playing since around 2007 though the vast majority of that time (2009 – 2013) I was not really motivated to get better. In those first few years, I learned wavedashing, SHFFLing, and all the “basics” of advanced play. Even during my unmotivated period I played regularly with my brother, at least once a week, and thus still improved just by playing. We played fairly seriously, but never really worked on improving ourselves or figuring out what we were doing wrong or talking to each other about it, so that’s why I call it unmotivated.

When I was a n00b I played Luigi, and continued for a while once I found out about wave-hacking. I played sheik for about half a year, then started playing Ganon. I’ve played Ganon almost ever since then. I briefly tried Falco out a couple years ago, but found that even though I played him well, my mentality did not suit him, and I always became very frustrated when playing him. Haven’t looked back since.

I am also a lurker here on the Ganon boards. So today, rather spontaneously, I decided I’d make an introduction here on the best thread in the Ganon boards. So in an attempt to not be such a lurker, hello.

I haven’t recorded any matches in the past two years, but hopefully will have some soon for your consideration. I am really looking forward to getting some ratings from you guys.

Also since I’m from South Bend, obligatory comment that you all should come to MELEE-FC this summer. If you plan to, hit me up.
 
PseudoTurtle

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@ Orah Orah I see where you're coming from, but really only the first hit is good for comboing, and that's already mid combo. If they're DIing in, there's a lot you can do to combo. At the same percents that nair combos, dair will definitely start a combo.

Oh and FYI, up air is ganon's fastest aerial, not nair- that's his second fastest.
 
RedmanSSBM

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Well... I'm a little peeved that netplay is not going to be usable for me to get some practice in since I'm not going to get much practice over the summer with others unless it's at a tournament.

Oh well. Just gonna keep writing notes and practicing my tech in solo.
 
Эикельманн [РУС]

Эикельманн [РУС]

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Locke Robster said:
Well... I'm a little peeved that netplay is not going to be usable for me to get some practice in since I'm not going to get much practice over the summer with others unless it's at a tournament.

Oh well. Just gonna keep writing notes and practicing my tech in solo.
Click to expand...
dude if brawl players used brawl wifi to get better than you can use netplay to improve. its better than nothing.
 
-ACE-

-ACE-

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Lost to Blea Gelo and trikrome tonight. Trikrome is a falcon that has insane amounts of linguini practice. I finally took a match off Blea which is good but placing high in FL is tough. So many Ganon slayers. My neutral got better just from not drinking and wavelanding more lol. I didn't spam anything hardly. I know I need to focus on my DI more though. Sometimes I forget and give them combos they shouldn't have. Hoping to get on stream this Thursday.
 
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