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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

Renth

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
5,938
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Colver, PA
IMO

Ganondorf cannot fight jiggs up close, if you are in your shield seriously roll away. She has way more options, if you try to shield grab or jab she can get an easy duck to rest combination. Taking him to Yoshi's seemed like a good idea until it clicked in my head I play much stronger at the zoning game than the footsies game.

In the future when I play him I will do better, I will beat him. I swear it.
 

cptjiggles69

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
294
Ace thats not what i mean. Its not good as a regular nair i play ganon enough to know that. Sometimes you can jump out for that nair but most often than not no. And sometimes you can jump back onto ledge with a retreating nair
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
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Montreal, Quebec
I talked with Dorsey a little bit and I've got something else on Nair that is really good.

You can beat the shield drop by hitting the first hit nair late on their shield so if they drop immediately the 2nd hit of nair will be already out which will send them off-stage probably or high up in the air. If they keep shielding up there.. well.. keep pressuring/threatening with uair and make sure you stay in closer to the middle of the stage.
 
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MosthatedinNC

Dorsey
Joined
May 7, 2014
Messages
111
I'm going to have to watch it again, but you definitely played well bro.

random but, I think edge cancelling aerials(mostly typical, into other aerials off of platforms) might be most viable for ganon in this MU.
 

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
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Apr 11, 2013
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1,744
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Greensboro, NC
Ouch Renth, it looked like it honestly just got worse for you as it went by. That first match on Battlefield was close, why not go back to that stage?
 

Renth

Smash Hero
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Sep 8, 2005
Messages
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Colver, PA
Ouch Renth, it looked like it honestly just got worse for you as it went by. That first match on Battlefield was close, why not go back to that stage?
Was feeling it out, I haven't played against a good jiggs in a long time
 

MosthatedinNC

Dorsey
Joined
May 7, 2014
Messages
111
Lol, he played well. Whenever I face someone that good I have to think totally out of the box to take each and every stock, Renth was making it look more like ganon v. jiggs most of the time.

edit: need to watch it again for sure to actually comment
 
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-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
Looool Skytch. Hbox puff is basically unbeatable with ganon. and I only use hbox as an example because he's the best puff... Not because he's always remarkable against ganon. But even in this case, where hbox wasn't 100% on his punish game at first, you can see how hard the tables can be turned once hbox starts adapting/the stage gets smaller.

Mark I really liked your movement on BF. it surprised him a lot, but you got really lucky overusing fair like you did. You have the right idea of the matchup. I approve of your FD counterpick (although I think you should practice vs puff more often on this stage) and approve of why you now see how bad YS can be... but a lot of approaches you had were iffy, and they only worked out because he wasn't challenging them correctly. Part of this is you doing a good job of catching him off guard but not all of it.

Over the years you keep getting better with your approaches, as well as your general approach to the game. But you suffer from the age old florida mistake... doing unnecessary moves (I'm not one to talk since I've done and still do this too) at the wrong time and giving your opponent openings to attack. I think you already know what to work on so I'll just leave it at that. Nice work bro. if I had a computer atm I'd give better advice.

captain jiggles 69, I'm sorry but nair in edgeguarding is mainly for disrespect lmao. Any uses it has in edgeguarding that are actually viable are so situational (depending on enemy character, position, percent, etc) it's crazy. If you want extra "push" uair is faster and stronger, and fair/bair have much more knockback than the 2nd hit of nair, even with the help of the extra damage that the first hit of the nair provides.
 
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PseudoTurtle

Smash Champion
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Nov 29, 2011
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2,162
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Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
Joe if Ripple is waiting on the uair like that, you can bait him so easily. retreating uair to dj is VERY hard for fox to punish even with sh nair. just increase the space/retreat with it more, dj and punish. you'll have more options with platforms.

the problem with nair as an approach is that its not very disjointed. You can win exchanges from your opponent not being used to the timing/hitboxes of the nair, but if he has a hitbox (or actually starts to expect the nair) out you will trade at best, most likely be hit.
Yea, it's actually more of a retreating nair lmao as dumb as that sounds. But you're right about uair, it was mostly on stadium/fd/fod where there were no platforms to mix wavelands in and such. I think the benefit to nair is that nobody expects it because kage is the only ganon that actually uses it and even then typically only as a combo filler.

Edit: Renth... Damn dude. That was really fun to watch. Very impressive play there on that first match. I'm not sure I agree with the FD counterpick. It can be a good stage vs puff, but I hate FD always and all the time because of my playstyle (heavily platform based, like yours). I'd have taken him back to battlefield if I were you, but I'm not you so I guess I can't say what the right move is here.

And that stuff about not being safe in your shield isn't always true. There were plenty of times when you could have uair'd out of shield and punished successfully. The problem is that puffs tend to mix up where they're gonna be after they hit your shield, so you kind of have to read and throw out a uair, fair, or bair. But rolling is usually pretty safe as ganon anyway, so that's always a good default option
 
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cptjiggles69

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
294
Ace yeah i know what you mean i don't know what i am trying to say lol. Basically trying to say the nair is a good tool for the right situation
 

MosthatedinNC

Dorsey
Joined
May 7, 2014
Messages
111
Despite it being usable via the situation, it's never the best edge guard option is what he meant jiggles.

I've messed around with the nair plenty off-stage, it's hilarious when you outspace something like falco's sideB mid dash with the 2nd hit(good timing obviously)... but as a rule, never consider the nair as a viable edge guard, lol. Because it's not.
 
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Coastward

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
1,560
Location
Pumpkin Hill
is there a certain way i have to pivot ftitls and jabs?

i can easily pivot fsmashes but i cant get ftilts or jabs to work.

also, whats my best option from the ledge against marth? how should i take advantage of my safe frames?
 
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-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
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11,536
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The back country, GA
Depends on the controller's sensitivity. Some comtrollers it seems like you want the stick 70% of the way to full tilt (all the way left/right) and some more like half way. You just have to practice the right distance and speed with the control stick. Pivot ftilts out of a dash dance are ****ing hard. I can't do them well at all on this new white controller im still getting used to.

Best option against marth, if I had to choose one, is the light shield edgehog because it works every time you force an up-b. If they up-B and knock you onto the ledge as they land on stage, you have plenty of time to ledgehop grab him. Marth killer ftw... it helped me take a stock off pp a few nights ago... was even with his marth for like 2 mins... 2 stocks each. Then I pretty much got 0-death'd twice lolol.
 
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cptjiggles69

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
294
I have noticed the purple gamecube controlllers are really good. They are spring loaded with the triggers. Even the white ones are not still
 

PseudoTurtle

Smash Champion
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Nov 29, 2011
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2,162
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Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
That's how it has always seemed to me.

Ive owned 3 black, 4 silver, 3 white, a purple and 2 wavebirds.
That's approximately one **** load of controllers man haha. I had no idea that they varied like that though, I haven't seen a difference in any of them. About pivoting out of a dash dance: I give up. Can't do it. I play a pretty technical dorf, but that's not in my playbook. They can be pretty useful after watching Tipman do it way back in the day, but it's just too damn hard.
 

X WaNtEd X

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Mar 24, 2009
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Lowell, MA
i'm super happy right now. i finally figured out how to flick it fast enough from my normal grip to do sh aerials and dj consistently. because i almost never do that ****, i'm doing a bit worse than normal in my matches because i'm adjusting to all this new technology i've been acquiring, but it's starting to pay off. i beat a puff that was the captain of the wpi team in the melee games using a combination of the wall of pain uairs/bairs and shield dropped uair'd two of his stocks and he literally asked what i did because he had never seen a ganon actually use that in an aggressive way.

it's hilarious. unless i'm playing a really good player, and even sometimes players i don't think would be dumb enough to fall for it will just run up and try to aerial me while i'm light shielding on a platform. i've only played one person so far that didn't fall for it and that's only because he taught me how to do it lol.

oh and renth, i watched your set with hbox. you played damn good. aside from where you started falling apart towards the end, there really wasn't much you could've done about hbox. he's got it all figured out and adapts super quick.

kage's sets at goml that i found on youtube were baller as always. i heard about this one between dj nintendo and kage that was supposedly really good, but i can't find it anywhere. :(
 
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MosthatedinNC

Dorsey
Joined
May 7, 2014
Messages
111
That's approximately one **** load of controllers man haha. I had no idea that they varied like that though, I haven't seen a difference in any of them. About pivoting out of a dash. dance: I give up. Can't do it. I play a pretty technical dorf, but that's not in my playbook. They can be pretty useful after watching Tipman do it way back in the day, but it's just too damn hard.
I play a non technical ganon, various applications of pivoting are easy to me, I'm the opposite haha
 

PseudoTurtle

Smash Champion
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Nov 29, 2011
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Champaign, Il. Chicago in summer.
Yea, its as soon as you're out of shield stun you can shield drop.

Dorsey for best ganon in the world

Edit: yea kage, are any of your other matches online? I know they were recorded because I watched a few on stream, like djnintendo (nice)
 
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Superspright

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
1,334
Way to be the typical condescending douche bag you always are.
I can't wait to meet you face to face. And try not to bite off my own insult chew it up and spit it back out at me. It's downright lame. I expected as much from a twerp like you.

@Pseudo: Don't give up. It may not be a natural thing for you to do, but if you keep practicing you may find a way. Working out can help your nervous system as well. Your hands don't really have to be particularly fast to do it...I'd say more dexterity is really the issue, or timing. There are a few pivots that can be done just with timing like the smashes, but pivot tilts are a real *****.
 
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Renth

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2005
Messages
5,938
Location
Colver, PA
#stayfree

Please mm me super scrub or just send me money in paypal without playing so I don't have to waste time being next to you
 

MosthatedinNC

Dorsey
Joined
May 7, 2014
Messages
111
I'd take the MM if I were you, you'll at least be known as the kid that got destroyed by renth after some smack talk, but known nonetheless.
 
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Superspright

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
1,334
#stayfree

Please mm me super scrub or just send me money in paypal without playing so I don't have to waste time being next to you
You talk a lot of **** for a little *****. This is going to be hilarious.

captain jiggles 69, I'm sorry but nair in edgeguarding is mainly for disrespect lmao. Any uses it has in edgeguarding that are actually viable are so situational (depending on enemy character, position, percent, etc) it's crazy. If you want extra "push" uair is faster and stronger, and fair/bair have much more knockback than the 2nd hit of nair, even with the help of the extra damage that the first hit of the nair provides.
2nd hit of nair has 50 base knockback, and 100 knockback growth according to master hand. Uair has the same base knockback, but 80 knockback growth. I think it's marginally stronger than most of his other aerials, but ultimately not the go-to move since it takes about 20 frames for the second hit to come out...so you're really not beating phantasm with it on reaction.
 
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