Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[ChemX]

streaming bioshock infinite most of the day.

feel free to come in and talk ganondorf

www.twitch.tv/renth

I clicked that link and saw zero BioShock Infinite, I'm disappointed.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Also known as all this haxdashing stuff. Meh.

it's the future of the ganon meta imo. if the falcons are doing it, so can we.

 

[-ACE-]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07m4EIMFcRk&t=8m14s

I hate this situation a lot, Is this one of the rare occasions it is good to crouch cancel the first hit of the down smash to intentionally get sent backwards by the second? This is all speculation, I don't know if it'd be reliable but if it works I think it would help save us from crappy facing the other direction deaths.

Lol you are the man. I was just about to post this. I tried to get NC to do it like 6 years ago in an old group discussion on smashboards. I don't think anyone really picked it up. Works like a charm and it's not that hard only CC'ing the first hit.

 

[-ACE-]

why are people using RLD? i like runoffs much better, as the rising bair tends to be a more useful (read: faster) hitbox than the fair. also if you mess it up or get hit out of it, it seems like you're more likely to use your jump later in the motion, therefore keeping your second jump.

Well, you only have roughly 10 times the amount of options and follow ups from the many things that a RLD could be used for.... lol.

But I agree bair is faster and in many cases would be better than doing a RLD to fair. It all depends.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

RLD fair is faster and safer than run off bair. Run off bair is so slow and gives them time to react once you have your back turned. If you RLD, you're still facing the stage. It's fantastic vs marths who think they can just sit by the ledge and dtilt or ftilt. Also try RLD edge cancelled dair to fair/waveland on platform. Way, way, way better than run off bair. But then again, that's just my opinion from experience lol.

Tm I still gotta watch those vids I didn't forget about my rival up and coming ganon

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Ok, Tm, vs. vaccine... wow he looked really tough! I honestly still kinda suck at playing against sheik, so the advice I'm giving you is pretty limited and really just focuses on fundamentals.

Vaccine's grab game was absolutely destroying you. Nothing you can do when you get grabbed, but you could prevent a lot of them by not being in your shield so much. There were instances in which you missed an areal or something and immediately threw up your shield. Instead, next time try a falling bair (not the quick one, and not a retreating fair) and then an immediate downward angled ftilt. This is good because jab won't hit unless your opponent is definitely going for the grab (rather than dash attack) and if you're not quite fast enough, it will auto crouch cancel for you in case of one of those infamous sheik ftilts, which I'm pretty sure can be crouch cancelled up to a pretty high percent, giving you a free dtilt into uair.

Also, DI. DI away always, unless you expect to get ***** slapped, in which case, DI that **** up and towards because you're probably going off stage.

Vs. Shady, I'm not even going to comment because you did better than I probably would have done lol. Awesome edge guarding!!

But vs Marth, less short hop fair, more full hop fair. It gets around fsmash and up tilit! And if you're playing a marth that likes to camp under the platform, you can full hop, drop through the platform and quickly throw out a uair... This really only kinda works once though lol

Oh, and you asked for results from my tournament on Saturday, well here ya go!
http://smashboards.com/threads/exposure-8-feat-m2k-kels-tink-darkatma-and-more.351353/
Alcheato aka TDC knocked me out of winners. ****in peach.
And Black Panther is the one who knocked me out of losers. ****in Fox -__-

 

[tm]

Not bad dude. Thanks for the tips

It seems we are both getting a lot better.

EDIT:
This just in, turns out I might actually be going to EVO!

 

[Renth]

MY OLD TWITCH CHANNEL GOT BANNED/CANCELED

Current new stream:

From 100 followers to 0 in one moment Whooo hooo!

www.twitch.tv/renth814

 

[X WaNtEd X]

RLD fair is faster and safer than run off bair. Run off bair is so slow and gives them time to react once you have your back turned. If you RLD, you're still facing the stage. It's fantastic vs marths who think they can just sit by the ledge and dtilt or ftilt. Also try RLD edge cancelled dair to fair/waveland on platform. Way, way, way better than run off bair. But then again, that's just my opinion from experience lol.

Tm I still gotta watch those vids I didn't forget about my rival up and coming ganon

I'm starting to implement ledgehop uairs. I mean, I think RLD is fantastic for edgeguards and stalling, but I'm pretty sure you can pop a ledgehop uair faster than either a runoff bair or an RLD fair. I'm not sure if it's fast enough to be invincible, but I have never actually been out prioritized using it before in tournament, so it seems to work.

-snip-

Dude could you give me some tips on my games too? You seem to know what you're talking about.

http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/b/515366170?t=8h46m12s

Not bad dude. Thanks for the tips

It seems we are both getting a lot better.

EDIT:
This just in, turns out I might actually be going to EVO!

Don't forget me

 

[PseudoTurtle]

I'd be happy to, PK! But right now I'm on mobile and won't be getting back to my place until tomorrow morning, so it'll have to wait.

Here's one thing I can tell you though. Ledge stalling is good. It's good because your opponent (let's say falcon) will eventually adapt to your wavelands and uairs and try to throw out knees in the middle of the stage to try and catch you. If you're stalling on the ledge, you can see him doing these things- this is where your RLD comes in. Pretend to waveland, but instead RLD. Falcon throws out a knee, expecting it to hit, but now you're back on the ledge. NOW you waveland in and its a free jab. Boom, pressures off and you're in control of center stage.

Take marth. Some marths will fsmash when they expect a waveland. Even if their spacing is good, if you RLD to fair, you should be able to clip marths head because his fsmash animation moves his head forward a bit... Etc. This is why RLD is good

 

[X WaNtEd X]

so i might be going to fight pit on the 19th. would i see you there @ Renth ? i'm craving that old school ganon experience.

I'd be happy to, PK! But right now I'm on mobile and won't be getting back to my place until tomorrow morning, so it'll have to wait.

Here's one thing I can tell you though. Ledge stalling is good. It's good because your opponent (let's say falcon) will eventually adapt to your wavelands and uairs and try to throw out knees in the middle of the stage to try and catch you. If you're stalling on the ledge, you can see him doing these things- this is where your RLD comes in. Pretend to waveland, but instead RLD. Falcon throws out a knee, expecting it to hit, but now you're back on the ledge. NOW you waveland in and its a free jab. Boom, pressures off and you're in control of center stage.

Take marth. Some marths will fsmash when they expect a waveland. Even if their spacing is good, if you RLD to fair, you should be able to clip marths head because his fsmash animation moves his head forward a bit... Etc. This is why RLD is good

or you rld, but sh forward into a fair instead of grabbing the ledge and wl into the jab. that's a simpler, more effective punish that requires less button pressing. i sometimes do something similar to this where i wl backwards from the edge of the stage into the fair, if i have the space to not have to grab the ledge. i can also make this wl sh into a dair if my opponent dash attacks or gets under me.

 

[Renth]

I wish I were going.

I am in Florida right now my friend.

Seek out the homies. Bean Wolf, PGH Carroll, Taki, Green Ranger, Nakamaru, The Lyme, Vudujin.. The Lake.. They will guide you down the right path, they are all good friends of mine.

 

[tm]

Yo I'm going

 

[X WaNtEd X]

A few western ny people are going, so I'm trying to get in on that. It's still up in the air, but I think I can get myself in on it. We will have to play many friendlies. I still have yet to play a dedicated ganon main. There's this guy crow in new england, but he's pretty much just around when the melee games are happening and honestly I think I'm going to surpass him soon.

 

[The PikMan]

Sup guys, pretty long time lurker located in upstate NY, hopefully heading to fight pitt with a group of kids, if not SKATR in May.
Anyway been watching videos and reading around to improve and finally got around to recording a match. Mind critiquing my Ganon v Marth in some recent friendlies? (Ignore that it was 1 am and I was trying to practice my platform movement a lot)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUUd0UnfO1g

Thanks!

 

[VegiLohrd]

So what I'm hearing is... if I want to actually meet anyone from the pgh scene I should go to Fight Pitt

 

[tm]

Sup guys, pretty long time lurker located in upstate NY, hopefully heading to fight pitt with a group of kids, if not SKATR in May.
Anyway been watching videos and reading around to improve and finally got around to recording a match. Mind critiquing my Ganon v Marth in some recent friendlies? (Ignore that it was 1 am and I was trying to practice my platform movement a lot)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUUd0UnfO1g

Thanks!

Nice to see more and more people coming out of the shadows. Your platform movement is coming along, but to be honest there are many things that are more important to learn that you will get a lot more out of learning first. Being extremely comfortable teching (in each of the 3 directions on command), l-canceling, and moving around in general (dashing and wavedashing on the ground to maintain spacing / keep your opponent guessing) are all very important fundamentals that mastering will help you a lot.

With marth in particular, you want to avoid being above him (so don't jump up onto the platforms if he's on the ground, and try to avoid attacking him from above, because he can cover the space above himself very well). So to that end, the platform movement practice was dangerous (but it's good that you are actively working at it).

Also, as you play better people, they will punish you for doing things that the marth player wasn't punishing you for (for example, if you approach with fair, a good player will avoid it and punish, even if you l-cancel it). In general bair is much safer from the neutral game.

Your DI could also use some work. A ganon player with good DI and smart recovery can live to absurdly high percents, and if you recover from offstage, you have basically been given another stock. So learn to DI well so that you can escape combos and live to ridiculous %s. This is a great resource if you haven't read it: http://smashboards.com/threads/a-gu...-teching-and-crouch-cancelling-updated.60218/
read it all and try to make sense of everything. If you don't understand something, feel free to ask on that thread or even on here.

And btw, my word is not law so apply your judgment to whatever I or someone else might say to you. Good luck, and keep it up!

 

[tm]

double post

So what I'm hearing is... if I want to actually meet anyone from the pgh scene I should go to Fight Pitt

Fight Pitt is one of the bigger (if not the biggest) PGH tournament series, so most of the active PGH player will definitely be there (as well as a bunch of players from other regions, like myself). Ask around if you're looking to meet someone; most of the decent / good players will all know each other.
If you're on facebook, check out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/NEOHBURGH/
It's for the active Pittsburgh / Northeast Ohio scene. I'm not sure if there is one for just PGH or just PA in general

 

[VegiLohrd]

double post


Fight Pitt is one of the bigger (if not the biggest) PGH tournament series, so most of the active PGH player will definitely be there (as well as a bunch of players from other regions, like myself). Ask around if you're looking to meet someone; most of the decent / good players will all know each other.
If you're on facebook, check out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/NEOHBURGH/
It's for the active Pittsburgh / Northeast Ohio scene. I'm not sure if there is one for just PGH or just PA in general

Well I have been a part of the page for about a month. And mostly I just want to meet another Ganondorf main because up here at Edinboro I feel like a freaking unicorn

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

this is beautiful. there's so many new ganondorf within the past 6 months that i honestly can't count or remember them all. that's honestly a first. i love all you guys.

tm, would love to see you at evo. i'm not going to mlg anaheim anymore so evo is my big event of the year. hoping to see all of my gerudo brethren there.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Well I'm a a scrub. I just figured out how to properly RLD as Ganon while trying to do a ledge-dash to backroll to marth-killer. It's apparant that they way that I was trying to do it before wasn't working, I was trying to do a haldf circle on my controller, but I figured that it's exactly like regular ledge-dashing, but instead it's the opposite direction, which takes some control stick flicking. I want to practice this more, I feel like I can be way more consistent with it now.

Also, Mew2King was right saying that you have to hit pretty hard on your control stick to register a dash. I think that is my problem half the time. I'm not hitting hard enoguh to dash, so my dash dances are lacking. Overall ?I want' my movement to be better. Here's to doing more solo practice.

 

[The PikMan]

Nice to see more and more people coming out of the shadows. Your platform movement is coming along, but to be honest there are many things that are more important to learn that you will get a lot more out of learning first. Being extremely comfortable teching (in each of the 3 directions on command), l-canceling, and moving around in general (dashing and wavedashing on the ground to maintain spacing / keep your opponent guessing) are all very important fundamentals that mastering will help you a lot.

With marth in particular, you want to avoid being above him (so don't jump up onto the platforms if he's on the ground, and try to avoid attacking him from above, because he can cover the space above himself very well). So to that end, the platform movement practice was dangerous (but it's good that you are actively working at it).

Also, as you play better people, they will punish you for doing things that the marth player wasn't punishing you for (for example, if you approach with fair, a good player will avoid it and punish, even if you l-cancel it). In general bair is much safer from the neutral game.

Your DI could also use some work. A ganon player with good DI and smart recovery can live to absurdly high percents, and if you recover from offstage, you have basically been given another stock. So learn to DI well so that you can escape combos and live to ridiculous %s. This is a great resource if you haven't read it: http://smashboards.com/threads/a-gu...-teching-and-crouch-cancelling-updated.60218/
read it all and try to make sense of everything. If you don't understand something, feel free to ask on that thread or even on here.

And btw, my word is not law so apply your judgment to whatever I or someone else might say to you. Good luck, and keep it up!

Thanks tm, I'm actually going to play and hopefully record some stuff tonight, I'm gonna watch the vids from a few pages ago and see if I can provide any useful feedback. I SHOULD be going to EVO unless my crew bails, so see you there

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Sup guys, pretty long time lurker located in upstate NY, hopefully heading to fight pitt with a group of kids, if not SKATR in May.
Anyway been watching videos and reading around to improve and finally got around to recording a match. Mind critiquing my Ganon v Marth in some recent friendlies? (Ignore that it was 1 am and I was trying to practice my platform movement a lot)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUUd0UnfO1g

Thanks!

WHERE IN UPSTATE?

I'm in Ithaca and I play with Syracuse/Rochester people from time to time.

 

[Coastward]

Well I'm a a scrub. I just figured out how to properly RLD as Ganon while trying to do a ledge-dash to backroll to marth-killer. It's apparant that they way that I was trying to do it before wasn't working, I was trying to do a haldf circle on my controller, but I figured that it's exactly like regular ledge-dashing, but instead it's the opposite direction, which takes some control stick flicking. I want to practice this more, I feel like I can be way more consistent with it now.

Also, Mew2King was right saying that you have to hit pretty hard on your control stick to register a dash. I think that is my problem half the time. I'm not hitting hard enoguh to dash, so my dash dances are lacking. Overall ?I want' my movement to be better. Here's to doing more solo practice.

lol i've been doing this **** for hours, i want to be super consistent with this

 

[X WaNtEd X]

You guys should practice RLD to a metronome. It's helping me a lot.

 

[Coastward]

i have it down, i just need to practice it a lot or else i wont use it in tourney play ever. my mindset is stupid when it comes to new techskill. i practiced only WDOOS for a week so that i would start using it properly.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I want to be able to do all my movement stuff perfectly without having to consciously think about it too much. Like, for example, if I want to RLD 5 times in a row or do a crazy ledge-dash to reverse down-b or something like that, I can think about what I want to do, and then just execute it. Lots and lots of solo practice.

 

[VegiLohrd]

Not going to lie guys, I have no idea how to do a ledge roll jab.

 

[The PikMan]

WHERE IN UPSTATE?

I'm in Ithaca and I play with Syracuse/Rochester people from time to time.

Troy/Albany area, if you ever want to come hang you're more than welcome, our smash club usually plays 2-3 tmes a week and meets from 6-midnight on Fridays. We'll be hosting a tourney soon, just waiting on venue confirmation

 

[Spralwers]

Also, Mew2King was right saying that you have to hit pretty hard on your control stick to register a dash. I think that is my problem half the time. I'm not hitting hard enoguh to dash, so my dash dances are lacking. Overall ?I want' my movement to be better. Here's to doing more solo practice.

I was playing melee yesterday for a little bit after getting really comfortable with PM and this bit me so much. There was even a moment where I was trying to dash dance to confuse someone, and all that happened was my character just kept turning around. But you could clearly hear me hitting the stick in alternating directions. it was really funny lol

 

[cptjiggles69]

I find thinking about rld makes me screw up. Instead just do it lol

 

[cptjiggles69]

I wish i could play you man. Ganon was the character i learned advanced techniques and how to be competitive lol

Well I have been a part of the page for about a month. And mostly I just want to meet another Ganondorf main because up here at Edinboro I feel like a freaking unicorn

sh

 

[RedmanSSBM]

I find thinking about rld makes me screw up. Instead just do it lol

Well, you don't want to just mindlessly do it. You'll really easily succumb to auto-piloting if you do that.

 

[cptjiggles69]

I

Well, you don't want to just mindlessly do it. You'll really easily succumb to auto-piloting if you do that.

dont mean like that. I mean when you do it you don't think about it too hard. The action itself is like second nature, so you can do that more consistently

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Troy/Albany area, if you ever want to come hang you're more than welcome, our smash club usually plays 2-3 tmes a week and meets from 6-midnight on Fridays. We'll be hosting a tourney soon, just waiting on venue confirmation

That's like several hours away from me unfortunately. Upstate is way too big.

 

[Coastward]

man i really wish i had like, a daily training partner. solo practice gets tedious after a while, and i really need to play some smash.

 

[PseudoTurtle]

Yo PK, sorry it took so long to watch that vid- totally forgot about it lol. But here are some tips vs falco. First off, I despise FD vs. falco, but a lot of ganons actually prefer the lack of platforms because falco has trouble with his combos. Anyway, I noticed a lot of double jumping... can be a good thing vs falco, but you need to be in a certain position to do so because if he clips you with a laser on that second jump, he has control and you don't have a jump. Just DI at that point and hope he doesn't punish you too hard. That's not to say all double jumping is bad, but the spacing has to be specific. Try this out, it's a classic Linguini trick: Full hop uair to catch him if he approaches, and it gets around his lasers. If he hasn't caught on and hit you with a laser yet, this actually puts you in a good position to double jump and fair him or simply waveland around him for better stage control if he's in his shield. Speaking of Linguini, he's the man to ask for falco advice. Watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxTCkhrx8SA

That's actually why I really like battlefield and stages with platforms vs. falco- because it gives you the option to waveland over lasers and put you in a nice position with minimal effort. I think another strong tip also given to me from Linguini is have a really strong uair game. In some cases, you're actually pretty safe in your shield. When falco does the standard laser on the shield into areal approach, just shield di the laser (sometimes, this isn't even necessary) and stuff his approach with a uair. I used to suck balls vs falco, but it's one of those matchups I'm learning slowly. I took out two falcos in the last tournament that used to give me quite a bit of trouble. Oh and try full hop stomp when he's next to you... this ****s him up if he short hop lasers or throws out a short hop areal.

 

[cptjiggles69]

Yo PK, sorry it took so long to watch that vid- totally forgot about it lol. But here are some tips vs falco. First off, I despise FD vs. falco, but a lot of ganons actually prefer the lack of platforms because falco has trouble with his combos. Anyway, I noticed a lot of double jumping... can be a good thing vs falco, but you need to be in a certain position to do so because if he clips you with a laser on that second jump, he has control and you don't have a jump. Just DI at that point and hope he doesn't punish you too hard. That's not to say all double jumping is bad, but the spacing has to be specific. Try this out, it's a classic Linguini trick: Full hop uair to catch him if he approaches, and it gets around his lasers. If he hasn't caught on and hit you with a laser yet, this actually puts you in a good position to double jump and fair him or simply waveland around him for better stage control if he's in his shield. Speaking of Linguini, he's the man to ask for falco advice. Watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxTCkhrx8SA

That's actually why I really like battlefield and stages with platforms vs. falco- because it gives you the option to waveland over lasers and put you in a nice position with minimal effort. I think another strong tip also given to me from Linguini is have a really strong uair game. In some cases, you're actually pretty safe in your shield. When falco does the standard laser on the shield into areal approach, just shield di the laser (sometimes, this isn't even necessary) and stuff his approach with a uair. I used to suck balls vs falco, but it's one of those matchups I'm learning slowly. I took out two falcos in the last tournament that used to give me quite a bit of trouble. Oh and try full hop stomp when he's next to you... this ****s him up if he short hop lasers or throws out a short hop areal.

alsoo this could be a good reason to learn powershielding. Don't rely on it, but it can definitely throw the falco's momentum off a little bit since it stuns him

 

[cptjiggles69]

man i really wish i had like, a daily training partner. solo practice gets tedious after a while, and i really need to play some smash.

coastward i wish i could come up and play you!

 

[Coastward]

coastward i wish i could come up and play you!

come to the toronto monthly on the 12th pls pls pls