Coastward
Smash Lord
alright so after playing some friendlies tonight, i realized im having a really though time against samus. matches were usually close but i kept on losing 1-0. any tips?
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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Linguini
- Start date
Bizzarro Flame
Smash Lord
A lot of the match-up is about figuring it out on your own.
As ganon, you would always want to bait samus to jump. Samus is ass against Ganon air to air; all of her aerials are out-prioritized by Ganon's well-spaced aerials. Try not to fight her on the ground because her grounded moves are generally quick and has some range especially with her wavedash.
If Samus missle-spams, then use platforms as mobility and get her to jump.
Basic combos are d-air > up-air or d-air > b-air. D-throw > up-air works as well.
As ganon, you would always want to bait samus to jump. Samus is ass against Ganon air to air; all of her aerials are out-prioritized by Ganon's well-spaced aerials. Try not to fight her on the ground because her grounded moves are generally quick and has some range especially with her wavedash.
If Samus missle-spams, then use platforms as mobility and get her to jump.
Basic combos are d-air > up-air or d-air > b-air. D-throw > up-air works as well.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
How do you edgeguard Samus exactly?
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Are there [m]any samus players around montreal? It's definitely one of the rarer matchups but still seems like a threat if you ask me.
In other news I got some nice combos the other day.
http://imgflip.com/i/4wulu
http://imgflip.com/i/4wump
In other news I got some nice combos the other day.
http://imgflip.com/i/4wulu
http://imgflip.com/i/4wump
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Kage, ripple plays samus all the time. Samus is super hard to edge guard, but it's actually doable, even though I'm bad at it. Well, the obvious one is that if your opponent uses up-b, you can just reverse uair without trading and then grab the ledge. Standard.
The problem is if your opponent uses that ****ing grapple. Usually they're gonna use this, unless (obviously) thy're above the stage (in which case, they will usually just air dodge onto the stage, no grapple). You can do a few things to stop this. You can just go out there and stop them from down-b stalling (you did this vs violence last stock on pokemon), or you can predict when they're going to use the grapple (when they're below the stage- predict the air dodge): this is risky because you have to go off stage, BUT the plus side is you don't have to over commit- the air dodge is slow enough that you can simply react to it and dair IF you're already going off stage.
One thing I like to do is hang on the ledge, reset my invincibility frames, and then RLD uair out of the down-b stall, obviously this is risky because if they air dodge through your uair, you're probably dead. I'll actually record some of the matches with ripple (I had some SICK matches the other day) later when I don't have a headache and maybe you can see what I'm talking about.
The problem is if your opponent uses that ****ing grapple. Usually they're gonna use this, unless (obviously) thy're above the stage (in which case, they will usually just air dodge onto the stage, no grapple). You can do a few things to stop this. You can just go out there and stop them from down-b stalling (you did this vs violence last stock on pokemon), or you can predict when they're going to use the grapple (when they're below the stage- predict the air dodge): this is risky because you have to go off stage, BUT the plus side is you don't have to over commit- the air dodge is slow enough that you can simply react to it and dair IF you're already going off stage.
One thing I like to do is hang on the ledge, reset my invincibility frames, and then RLD uair out of the down-b stall, obviously this is risky because if they air dodge through your uair, you're probably dead. I'll actually record some of the matches with ripple (I had some SICK matches the other day) later when I don't have a headache and maybe you can see what I'm talking about.
Bizzarro Flame
Smash Lord
Darrell has almost perfect edge-recovery with this grapple. Better recovery than most samus I've played so far. If you think Darrell is tough, Hugs is even better at the match-up IMO.
B-air if Samus goes below the ledge since she will either grapple-jump over the ledge or up-b. If Samus grapples perfectly on the ledge, then I would just let them back on and play the neutral game instead of being predictable and try to edgeguard, allowing them a free access back to the middle of the stage. There are instances when you can go off the stage and b-air, but I highly do not recommend it when Samus is at full-grapple range. Ganon is too easy to edge-guard with Samus and I would not want to risk missing just to get edge-guarded when i try to get back onto the stage.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Yay Samus.. lol, Well Plup was the hardest so far.
I had faced Hugs before, he's just more solid as a player imo. When you play a mid tier it feels a lot more like the player makes the character... well maybe its true for everybody but you can see it more clearly with crappier characters because their options are more limited.
Coastward
Smash Lord
**** samus
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
^ so much of this. I ****ing hate playing against campy boring characters, its no fun. Samus, link, etc
Bizzarro Flame
Smash Lord
Never played plup before. Seems annoying. Hugs and Darrell are definitely more towards the aggressive side.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Darrell seemed pretty defensive to me but I guess thats the nature of Samus, you have to play the patient game.
But ya don't worry guys.. I got the EXACT same result as in Big House 3 lol. 4th teams and 9th singles.. **** that ****!! Grrrr!! Motivation +++
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
I'm still learning the matchup. I feel like I play it much differently than most ganons play it, but I feel like a lot of my matchup starts are pretty good. This could be due to the fact that there are only, like, three ganon samus matches online, but do you guys have advice?
I know, bizz, you're totally right about getting samus in the air. And I love dtilt in this matchup as well, it really messes up your opponents spacing I think. I'm rambling. Advice please.
I know, bizz, you're totally right about getting samus in the air. And I love dtilt in this matchup as well, it really messes up your opponents spacing I think. I'm rambling. Advice please.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Go get drunk, lol.
Actually downtilt is bad in this matchup, Samus has time to block, WD forward to downsmash or a fast tilt. I also learned to be careful with jabs at low % because she can CC dsmash instantly. lol. Forcing Samus in the air seems a bit hard.. I guess you gotta work those angles with your own aerials somehow..
Coastward
Smash Lord
looks like im going to apex drunk
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Warrior's orders: I'll get drunk tonight. Feels weird now that I'm not breaking any laws by doing so though.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Lol so young!
Coastward
Smash Lord
one more year for me and i can follow these orders
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
I'm having trouble playing against Falco. I'm pretty decent when it comes to comboing Falco and when it comes to techchasing my downthrow with a side-b or down-b, but I have a hard time in the neutral game against Falco. I keep getting pinned down by lasers and stuck in hit stun, and I want to jab and grab Falco.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
You have to take your time, shield DI the lasers and WD OOS to gain ground or to move away from Falco. You have the understand how far Falco can Dair and Nair. When you can then you can setup counter grabs by baiting an aerial by wd away and grabbing his landing lag or straight up ftilt, Uair. Bair is pretty good OOS when falco is close and you are facing away from him but not too much sometimes you just have to get away. The main point in this matchup I think is that you have to bait Falco to move first, you can even mixup side-B on reaction against laser if hes close and also aerial his face before laser comes out. Side-B also works as a pull back to bait an aerial coming down but watch his double jump. Jab is really good when Falco wants to jump quickly if hes close to you... you really want to make him stop moving.
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
One thing. Side-b when falco is in his shield facing away from you. Your opponent will throw out a bair 110% of the time because it's so quick, but your side-b is quicker and BOOM FALCO GETS ****ED UP.
That concludes my knowledge of the falco matchup.
That concludes my knowledge of the falco matchup.
Coastward
Smash Lord
i had such an easier time against spacies when i started learning how to space myself with WDOOS and jabbing OOS.
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
Shield DI the lasers as in tilt my shield towards the lasers? I'm assuming by WDOOS you mean right after a laser is shot and hits your shield, but in my head I'm imagining that I won't be able to pull my shield back up after the WD because the second laser coming will hit me. I definitely understand that Falco can dair from a ridiculously long range and that it trades or even beats jab. The baiting an aerial is a good idea, but I'm afraid they may see my bait attempt and double jump after I wd back. I'll definitely wanna try the wd back and then ftilt one. I've tried WD back and grabbing but Falco tends to l-cancel too quickly plus Ganon's grab range is pretty bad. I tend to bair a lot on Falco's shield, if I hit a shield, should I go for a grab right after? I wouldn't know exactly when to side-b either. I've tried that a few times and the laser just hits me right out of the animation.
Linguini
Smash Master
All samuses are horrible vs ganon except plup. that is all
i'm pure trash in the matchup and never lost to another samoose...that speaks to it
i'm pure trash in the matchup and never lost to another samoose...that speaks to it
spider_sense
Smash Champion
Pulp has the strongest keep-away Samus I've ever played recently, though I feel like if Esam ever picked up melee again, he'd be a top contender vs Ganon.
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
**** plup. He's a good player I guess, but that just makes the game a chore, not fun. I rewatched plup vs linguini. That part on dream land when he just stood there and pushed side-b? **** plup.
spider_sense
Smash Champion
lol I took a match off him in tournament (not trying to boast) that's just his playstyle, you feel me? You just have to play patient and narrow his spacing by pushing him to the corner. All Samus really can do is up+b out of shield which can be annoying, but that's her only reversal. I was hitting the missles and wavelanding at him to zone him in. It worked out pretty well. I still feel like Esam was much better vs Ganon (btw, Falco is free except chops, shiz, and hollatchaboii)
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
ESAM definitely knows the Ganon match-up from playing so many in Florida.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
I did play him Apex 2013 and beat him 3-1? Idk.. for me it's hard to tell which one is the hardest, all i have is like one set vs all the top samus. lol.
Coastward
Smash Lord
i havent seen samus played in a while to be honest, i think 20XX is drawing near...
Linguini
Smash Master
calm down griceson, you've barely even been out of fl.
plup has a gay style honestly when the game gets that boring I fail to care about it...I play to do cool **** and stomp *******
plup has a gay style honestly when the game gets that boring I fail to care about it...I play to do cool **** and stomp *******
Coastward
Smash Lord
**** yeah.
xXx-NoobKing-xXx
Smash Hero
Samus is pretty easy. Just ban FD.
Tips for the pika matchup? There's almost nothing on the matchup thread, and not that many videos. I kept getting sh naired in neutral game, and he would spot dodge many of my ground attacks and have plenty of time to punish. I an aware of the chaingrab, and need to work on it (somehow). Also edgeguarding just seems like a lost cause, so u would generally just give him ledge in order to keep stage control. Also his d smash kept eating through all of my aerials, and he combod stuff into it all the time, just popping me up then tail spiking me into edgeguard, and i almost never make it back (he would aerial me if i went low, and uair spike me if i went high, rinse & repeat until grabbing ledge was enough).
Help
Help
Bizzarro Flame
Smash Lord
CC SH-Nair > Grab
If his d-smash eats through your aerials, then you need to work on your spacing bud.
I think you can cg up to 35% against Pikachu.
Pikachu is pretty light, so it shouldn't be too hard to gain the upper hand in terms of trading hits.
If his d-smash eats through your aerials, then you need to work on your spacing bud.
I think you can cg up to 35% against Pikachu.
Pikachu is pretty light, so it shouldn't be too hard to gain the upper hand in terms of trading hits.
Superspright
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,334
A lot of Pikachu's combos are fake. You can air dodge away from a lot of them.
Renth
Smash Hero
Enjoy\\
The set I lost (vs. Ambix peach will be uploaded in a few days)
MinorThreat
Smash Rookie
yooooo renth i came here just to say good ****. Really love watching your tech skill