Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[RaphaelRobo]

Why is it people never use a grounded downB against phantasm?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

an aerial side b would just send them up anyway...

 

[Comrade]

Hm? What does that mean?

I don't even... do they not say that in the frozen tundra?

 

[-ACE-]

Why is it people never use a grounded downB against phantasm?

They can sweetspot under it, it has weak knockback when DI'd properly, if you miss, you die. It's a huge commitment, and for little reward against good players. But its fun in friendlies lol

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I see. That would explain why it's really good against the people I play with.

Out of curiousity, can I downB spike them during a phantasm?

Also, I noticed that at certain percents I can Uthrow someone and then downB spike them. How viable is this against good players?

 

[Comrade]

Also, I noticed that at certain percents I can Uthrow someone and then downB spike them. How viable is this against good players?

Just dthrow and read them to a wizard kick. Its viability? Very high.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

That's nowhere near as cool looking, though. Plus, wouldn't they be able to DI the kick to survive if they weren't at a really high percent?

 

[Comrade]

Oh, i totally misread that. You said spike. Well, i have a penchant for dthrowing spacies near a ledge and i cover basically every option with wizard kick at the right percents. Also, since theyre so close to the edge of the screen already, it's incredibly useful for at least getting them way off stage.

 

[DippnDots]

Further elaboration on why people don't use down b against illusion. Ftilt comes out faster and sets them up for an effortless reverse uair KO, without fault. You can react with the ftilt because it comes out faster so if they choose to go onto the stage or sweet spot you can just wait and see. The downb only really works if they commit to illusioning over the stage, and you have to pretty much call that.
I do it a lot in friendlies, the down B, and honestly even then against people I can three stock, it's a real easy way to miss taking a stock and end up losing one.


Down throw to down b works on fox / falco on/after 116%, works as in it's a true combo, before they hit the ground or get out of stuntime.
Also they can tech the down-b spike if they go for the sweet spot.. assuming you mean when they illusion in and you do the downb so you immediately hit the edge.

Last edit, for reals: I'm having large doubts about the uthrow to downb spike. It seems like it's only possible if they flub their DI or don't hit you when their stuntime wears off. And honestly if their at the edge where it would kill them, it's probably better to just go something (uair is the butter for a lot of throws... which are the bread) that'll set them up for an edge guard.

Ganon has a really strong edge guard game because of his range and the strength on each hit, and of course his uair. It's like marth's downtilt except manly... ish. Being able to put people into an edge guarding position is 9/10 better than going for the rock paper scissors flashy KO, because a lot of times good people will turn it around on you. Kage probably disagrees with me here, but he's got style.

 

[Vaccine]

who do u guys cc -> jab ppl? i was told that it is really good, but i cant do it. i endup dtilting whenever i try it.

 

[-ACE-]

Let go of down lol. Like, slip your finger off the stick sooner and let it snap back to the neutral position by itself. Then time your jab. Or, go for the poor mans crouch cancel: claw c-down and hit A with your index finger. Not a true cc but seriously its extremely close to being just as good.

 

[Vaccine]

thanks! im gonna try both of those.

 

[Larz]

are there any known combos to either rack up damage or finish them at high percent against Fox or Falco with up throw? I feel like there should be, considering the throw has a good period of hit stun

 

[-ACE-]

uthrow to bair on di behind can kill at high%, ftilt can set up for an easy edgeguard since not many ppl are ready to di it.

For less of a gamble, uthrow when a platform is in front of you, so you can techchase. If they di the uthrow away at high% on fd they are safe, which is why I often prefer dthrow setups and chaingrabbing.

 

[Comrade]

are there any known combos to either rack up damage or finish them at high percent against Fox or Falco with up throw? I feel like there should be, considering the throw has a good period of hit stun

Eh, not really other than just dthrow to a read. I've noticed against falco that if you catch him with a side b at low percentage, you can usually chain it into 3-4 more side b's followed by a finishing fair/bair. But really, side b should be used sparingly.

 

[-ACE-]

Eh, not really other than just dthrow to a read. I've noticed against falco that if you catch him with a side b at low percentage, you can usually chain it into 3-4 more side b's followed by a finishing fair/bair. But really, side b should be used sparingly.

That is nowhere near guaranteed. The side-b can be easily cc'd (you get punished), and if they di behind they are safe, so... You won't be landing that very often.

 

[DippnDots]

I'm not the biggest fan of up throw, like Ace said, it's nice to get people on platforms with it. I don't find much utility outside of that. People know not to DI behind, so you gotta kind of throw it out after a few down throws and hope to trick'm.

 

[-ACE-]

New tricks? Not really, I'm pretty bad at picking up things from videos, I need to practice new tricks and see if they are really good or not.

Just thought I'd say, you used to laugh at me when I said you should start ledgedashing and wavedashing. Now look at you lol. Btw, you should learn RLD. I've never seen you do one.

 

[Divinokage]

What's that?

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I believe a RLD is a reverse ledgedash, which is like a ledgedash, but you go backwards and off the stage. It's not that hard to perform once you have the hang of ledgedashing.

I used to laugh at Kage when he said he liked the color green. Now look at me. I still laugh at him.

 

[Comrade]

That is nowhere near guaranteed. The side-b can be easily cc'd (you get punished), and if they di behind they are safe, so... You won't be landing that very often.

Oh definitely, that's why I advised using it sparingly. But it's a good little trick to know.

 

[Divinokage]

I believe a RLD is a reverse ledgedash, which is like a ledgedash, but you go backwards and off the stage. It's not that hard to perform once you have the hang of ledgedashing.

I used to laugh at Kage when he said he liked the color green. Now look at me. I still laugh at him.

Ooohh, ok. Omg, that's pretty hard to do, when I try it I ended up rolling all the time... at least right now I would definitely not try this when you have to be pretty much frame perfect lol.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

It's exactly the same as a Ledgedash, except you push the other direction when you press R. I've done it a few times. It's not as easy as a ledgedash, because you have to quickly flick the control stick, but I don't think you need to be frame perfect.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

it's very easy to end up rolling if you're just a little bit too slow. it's also very easy to end up airdodging if you're a little too fast. it shouldn't take you long to get the timing down though. it's actually a pretty fluid movement.

 

[Superspright]

Reverse ledge-dash then FF it so you're invincible for the entire duration if you're going to use it as a bait or a fake out. It's not even remotely hard to do. It's just once in a while you may kill yourself. No one is perfect after all. Best to practice it until it's second nature.

Dair perfectly edge-canceled on hit can lead into anything. Try dair to upsmash on spacies on yoshis or pokemon. Dair into any aerial pretty much works because of the massive hitstun from the electric attack. I've been having a lot of success with it. Most people DI left or right when hit with dair. The next aerial is always a surprise given how fast it comes out.

The dair is mega safe if you do it this way. Can't be punished really unless you threw out the dair as an approach or something.

 

[Geenareeno]

^ That reminds me of that tool assisted video I saw of a Ganon on Yoshi's Story fighting Fox. He daired through the platform on the left, perfect edgecancelled it into u-tilt and landed it.

 

[Superspright]

I use edge-cancels occasionally to bait. Dair takes forever to recover from l-canceled. Edge-canceled the thing is almost entirely safe. Dair to utilt is impractical for the most part. But still I'm going to learn the percents when I can get it and attempt to get proficient with it. It's too lulzy of a guaranteed. I can do the whole motion itself, it's just getting them at that golden percent and hoping they don't di wildly away.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Dair to Utilt may be impractical, but you can't deny it looks cooler to pull off. I need to Dair a lot less than I do, though. When I first learned how to Dair I did it a lot, so now I have a habit of SHFFL Dairs, which are almost always really bad.

On a side note, recently I've been timing Warlock Punches so I hit my friends during their recovery. It's fun.

 

[-ACE-]

You can be off by like 1 frame on RLD or ledgedash, either on the jump or timing R. So if you jump a frame late I think you have to be frame perfect on R.

 

[Superspright]

Dair is bad. And I don't think there is a recovery you can warlock punch. You can utilt firefox definitely though, and other recoveries.

 

[Divinokage]

You can probably warlock punch Ganon's or Falcon's recovery, lol.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Dair is bad. And I don't think there is a recovery you can warlock punch. You can utilt firefox definitely though, and other recoveries.

You can warlock punch a bad recovery. My friend's Pikachu quick attacked right into my punch.

 

[-ACE-]

You can probably warlock punch Ganon's or Falcon's recovery, lol.

No you cant rofl.

Kage how are you so good at this game? lmao

 

[RaphaelRobo]

No you cant rofl.

Kage how are you so good at this game? lmao

What if they miss the edge with their UpB and come onto the stage?

 

[Comrade]

No you cant rofl.

Kage how are you so good at this game? lmao

Warrior spirit.

 

[-ACE-]

What if they miss the edge with their UpB and come onto the stage?

Who would do that? Teach your friends to be mindgamey with their recoveries.

Lol, seriously. It's the warrior spirit. Personally I think SWF would suck without kage. But some of his posts are ridiculously hilarious.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I would do that by accident. I'm sure we'd all do it if we weren't paying close attention to the game.

I think Kage's being a good player is based on his spirit and I think he does a lot of his thinking subconsciously as he's playing rather than sitting here thinking about things all the time. Granted, I've never seen him play, but that's my impression from his posts here and talking to him in the chats for streams.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

ganon/falcon's sweetspot is bad, but it's not quite that bad haha.

kage's good because he's good.

 

[Dark Hart]

kage's good because he's good.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

What are you doing in the Ganon boards? Let me guess, one of us kidnapped your Zelda and dragged her in here.