How to Up+B Cancel Video and Discussion

[urbes]

yo thanks so much for this

 

[Doctor Pink]

I have been practicing for a few days, and while I may not be 100% consistent with it, I have found many uses for it. Thank you for the video!

 

[Shibbypod]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnpPqeAb31k&feature=youtu.be

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

so ive been wondering @mrlemon or anyone else
you said you cud only upb cancel one way which is upleft-> upright or reverse
but when i upb cancel i can only do it right now from the top left, i seem to "cancel" it downwards and right if that makes any sense
i slam it down within the 4 or so frames and it always cancels for me

so what do you think is happening when i do this motion, i am probably passing the top right input as im slamming down
as your motion is not at all what im doing to upb cancel

im just asking again cuz i am convinced that me going upb top left-> slam down right within the frames required makes me upb cancel

unless i am being dumb, lol i guess i need to know what the actual motion is in a more babying way of saying it as i am ******** when it comes to learning new stuff in melee
but check my thing out where you go diagonaly down and see if you are accidentaly passing the opposite vertical inputs
this is alot of **** but just hear me out lol

 

[Shibbypod]

Don't even worry about going down with the stick. UpB one way and as quick as you can, put the stick opposite top corner opposite the way you are facing. Real simple and easily 100%able with a little practice.

 

[Shibbypod]

As you can see, my success rate is near 100%, and I wouldn't consider anything I'm doing to be "slamming", either. I believe it was Isai who once said "Use soft hands". You don't need to slam, you just need to be quick. I hope that helps a little. There are some good tutorials on youtube, too. I know my vid doesn't help you learn, but i wont make a tutorial because there are at least one or two already that can help you out big time.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

As you can see, my success rate is near 100%, and I wouldn't consider anything I'm doing to be "slamming", either. I believe it was Isai who once said "Use soft hands". You don't need to slam, you just need to be quick. I hope that helps a little. There are some good tutorials on youtube, too. I know my vid doesn't help you learn, but i wont make a tutorial because there are at least one or two already that can help you out big time.

thanks i see my problem was i wasnt doing it the correct way obviously
i was tilting the stick fully when trying to learn the right way which was slowing me down

ive seen 0 docs in my life use this in game but its only the fact that theyre afraid they **** up
its a pretty dirty option and for actual doc mains who knows what technology theyre gonna come up with lol
ive been playing doc tho since i started competitive, ill be looking to acutally have him as a secondary to spacies but im still learning the doc spacing
thanks for the help

 

[Shibbypod]

np! I've used it in tournament play. Actually not a bad option sometimes ESPECIALLY against fastfallers, and even sheik. My favorite part about it is SET KNOCKBACK so even if they are at 300% and up UpBC them, you can usually read their trajectory. If they don't expect it and have poor DI, instant doc punch follow up for the KO. Lets see more docs doing this please! (Although it is nice being the only one in my state utilizing it in competition!)

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

np! I've used it in tournament play. Actually not a bad option sometimes ESPECIALLY against fastfallers, and even sheik. My favorite part about it is SET KNOCKBACK so even if they are at 300% and up UpBC them, you can usually read their trajectory. If they don't expect it and have poor DI, instant doc punch follow up for the KO. Lets see more docs doing this please! (Although it is nice being the only one in my state utilizing it in competition!)

aight so i went into training and since i practiced upb cancel timing months ago, i got it down
but i still dont know what im doing when i do the motion rofl

so i first hold just above the threshold for cape input
then i press b and slam diagonaly across

so why is it canceling
i ****ing hate to keep saiyan this but wtf am i doing wrong
can you make another 1min video of the controller inputs lol
i get it so much without hitstun etc. and i got the timing down
the only concern is i am probably gonna roll or spotdodge when i try it moving or oos

 

[mas_torque]

aight so i went into training and since i practiced upb cancel timing months ago, i got it down
but i still dont know what im doing when i do the motion rofl

so i first hold just above the threshold for cape input
then i press b and slam diagonaly across

so why is it canceling
i ****ing hate to keep saiyan this but wtf am i doing wrong
can you make another 1min video of the controller inputs lol
i get it so much without hitstun etc. and i got the timing down
the only concern is i am probably gonna roll or spotdodge when i try it moving or oos

I've posted about the input before. It's just above cape input on one side to just above cape input on the other

 

[Shibbypod]

I honestly think the "throw" can be shorter than that even, i.e., facing right, just push straight up (for up b) and immediately back to backwards top corner. I do it both ways consistantly.

Don't give up. This technique is hard, but not impossible. I believe it to be easier than other techniques in the game such as multishining, shdl, swd and others. It just takes a touch. We're talking an 8th of the joystick with my technique mentioned in THIS post, a quarter of the it with torques method. not long distance. also, stop SLAMMING! you'll just lose accuracy with that. focus on the stick position and speed. SLAMMING is just, no. Just has to be quick. Our right hands are quick from jump buttons to attack buttons, so what is stopping your left thumb from being quick?

I'm somewhat confused by your last question. So you are doing it? Or is it still failing? I will mention this. It is EASIER when it contacts your opponant, as you get some freeze frames from the hit stun allowing you more time to get the stick positioned right (approx 2 extra frames?). So if you can do it empty, that is without connecting, then you're percentage will be way better.

No matter if you hit or miss, doc will be unable to move, or do anything else for quite a few frames after the cancel. This is the main fallback of the upbc other than its difficulty, and lack of practical application against most characters. (I find it best to relieve yourself from shield pressure against spacies)

I also should add this. Although it is a cool technique, and a cool thing to showoff, it is not that important. It is very flashy, but many of the best doc players in the world, although they can pull it off, very rarely, if ever, use it and they still win. There are more important things to practice to improve your overall game.

If you are still have lots of trouble and are determined to learn, I will make a tutorial video on my youtube sometime this week (either tomorrow or sunday) via your request.

I hope I'm helping your upbc, but mostly helping dr players overall games is more important to me. Lets put doc into viable tier for the future tier lists.

 

[mas_torque]

You're misunderstanding me then. It's not on the corners around the stick. It's on the flats so the distance we're both describing is the same. I've never been able to pull it off by starting straight up.

 

[Shibbypod]

I'm sorry Rocketpower, I wont be able to make a tutorial video for a few days or so unless I somehow get a big chunk of time free over the next few days, I have been pretty busy with work. Practicing the technique I am sure I am at about 99% success (unless my palms are sweating, then I drop down to like almost 80% and that makes me way less inclined to try it during competitive play) I'll see what I can do for you during the week.

It would appear that we have a couple of conflicting ideas about how to do it, I am sure I've gotten it with a straight upB initial input, but I'll sit down and make sure. But as I said, it might take me a couple of days before I can really try it because of how busyI'll be coming up but we'll get this figured out.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

I'm sorry Rocketpower, I wont be able to make a tutorial video for a few days or so unless I somehow get a big chunk of time free over the next few days, I have been pretty busy with work. Practicing the technique I am sure I am at about 99% success (unless my palms are sweating, then I drop down to like almost 80% and that makes me way less inclined to try it during competitive play) I'll see what I can do for you during the week.

It would appear that we have a couple of conflicting ideas about how to do it, I am sure I've gotten it with a straight upB initial input, but I'll sit down and make sure. But as I said, it might take me a couple of days before I can really try it because of how busyI'll be coming up but we'll get this figured out.

ay no prob mane, and yea i guarantee you can pull it off pretty flawlessly, just like anyother fox / falco tech once its learned and mastered youre good to go lol

to be honest i dont understand you guys still about the motion of upb cancel but i can upb cancel when i do it correctly if that makes sense
so im only curious cuz whats the point in being able to do something by yourself if you dont know how its even performed rofl

yea you dont have to take your own time to make a tutorial unless you want to, i just think its hella weird that i am upb canceling fine, with mastered timing almost, but i know for sure ill never be able to do it in game unless i have calm hands and fast fingers with efficient movement like you said

its cool the doc boards has so many good docs, lots of upincoming players, tho i play spacies and i think doc helps teach spacing very well, good stuff

my opinion on the move itself
filthy option, it is essentially a shine, not sure how fast it comes out but it must be almost as fast as shine
you gain hella positional advantage doing this
and you might get a good platform tech chase, or arial after the upb

 

[Shibbypod]

Situational uses only, or if it is really all you have time for. If I'm not mistaken, its hitbox comes out before the jabs hitbox or dsmash hitbox, which otherwise would be his fastest ground attacks. I tend to do it out of shield against players shield pressuring. Plus when they are on the offensive like that and you upbc out of shield, the victim is usually not ready to DI and can't get far enough away to avoid a followup. Also, it will normally force someone to tech on a platform on the platform stages.

 

[гυιη]

Thank you so much for this <3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYVo4SLn8qw

 

[Shibbypod]

When I play on stream, those who are interested in learning how to do it from me should watch. I have taken the last 4 days off from playing, but I'm looking forward to practicing more technical aspects of the game. After playing with SFAT, pewpewu, m2k, hungrybox and drPP last weekend, all of them said that my up b cancelling was at a higher success rate and at the smartest times in comparison to any other doc player. I'd be willing to share the love a little bit. Come check me out on twitch.tv/shibbypod some time. (I stream other games too so you just have to catch me at the right time)

 

[Blue Doc]

Since there isn't a guide out there to learn how to Up+B Cancel I thought it would be helpful to make one.

Up+B Cancel is an extra move that doc has, why not start using it?

So here it is http://youtu.be/oWMDcnbPgy0 Let me know what you guys think.

Also, discuss any thoughts about it, or if you find a beneficial time to use it!

This is mad legit. Has anyone applied this to the metagame yet?

 

[dRevan64]

Any frame data on execution/how long you're vulnerable after use? It'd be cool to see a TAS/AR experimenter find the details.

 

[Blue Doc]

Any frame data on execution/how long you're vulnerable after use? It'd be cool to see a TAS/AR experimenter find the details.

Yeah that would be cool. I wanna see Fox get dragged across the stage with the Up b cancel lmao.

 

[dRevan64]

Yeah that would be cool. I wanna see Fox get dragged across the stage with the Up b cancel lmao.

That doesn't look possible based on the lag time after the cancel. Maybe an edgecancelled upb cancel into something.

 

[Blue Doc]

That doesn't look possible based on the lag time after the cancel. Maybe an edgecancelled upb cancel into something.

Oh yeah I forgot he keeps the Upb landing lag. Actually I'm not sure if you can edge cancel it. To the Smash Lab!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Dark Pie 1001]

interesting i can use this!
thx

 

[ZaXXoR]

it's funny, i find i still have to go diagonally down the opposite way to get the consistency lol, i can get upb cancels to the left like 90%+ now

 

[ZaXXoR]

ay no prob mane, and yea i guarantee you can pull it off pretty flawlessly, just like anyother fox / falco tech once its learned and mastered youre good to go lol

to be honest i dont understand you guys still about the motion of upb cancel but i can upb cancel when i do it correctly if that makes sense
so im only curious cuz whats the point in being able to do something by yourself if you dont know how its even performed rofl

yea you dont have to take your own time to make a tutorial unless you want to, i just think its hella weird that i am upb canceling fine, with mastered timing almost, but i know for sure ill never be able to do it in game unless i have calm hands and fast fingers with efficient movement like you said

its cool the doc boards has so many good docs, lots of upincoming players, tho i play spacies and i think doc helps teach spacing very well, good stuff

my opinion on the move itself
filthy option, it is essentially a shine, not sure how fast it comes out but it must be almost as fast as shine
you gain hella positional advantage doing this
and you might get a good platform tech chase, or arial after the upb

you're probably overthinking and trying to use it in positions where u shouldnt, everything in smash is based on options , i use full up-bs to recover sometimes, like say fox is aBOUT TO SHINE YOU AND KILL YOU... it has great priority in general, just do what feels right in a situation, ive only tried using upb cancels twice in match and landed a naSTY COMBO ON MY BUDDYS FOX FROM SHIELD UPB to like an u air then a fair to kill. sorry for caps im too lazy to fix it

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

you're probably overthinking and trying to use it in positions where u shouldnt, everything in smash is based on options , i use full up-bs to recover sometimes, like say fox is aBOUT TO SHINE YOU AND KILL YOU... it has great priority in general, just do what feels right in a situation, ive only tried using upb cancels twice in match and landed a naSTY COMBO ON MY BUDDYS FOX FROM SHIELD UPB to like an u air then a fair to kill. sorry for caps im too lazy to fix it

lol ive just stuck to one character for awhile now but i will still lurk the doc boards cuz one of my friends plays all doc and im trying to help them improve and **** cuz theyre new
thanks for that post tho, he isnt very technical so ill tell him to do easy options

also wth is docs neutral game? and what is his breadnbutter ?
knowing that will help him learn how to use bairs and pills etc.

 

[ZaXXoR]

lol ive just stuck to one character for awhile now but i will still lurk the doc boards cuz one of my friends plays all doc and im trying to help them improve and **** cuz theyre new
thanks for that post tho, he isnt very technical so ill tell him to do easy options

also wth is docs neutral game? and what is his breadnbutter ?
knowing that will help him learn how to use bairs and pills etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkYfiR598Ak practice SHBAWD, mad spacing ability in that

 

[Berble]

When you up b cancel do you have to let go of the stick after jerking it the other direction? Thanks for uploading this Mr. Lemon it helped a lot.

 

[Scidadle]

You don't have to no. Most people just find it easier to

 

[Berble]

You don't have to no. Most people just find it easier to

Yeah that's what I've found. Thanks

 

[d-man2292]

mr lemon you sir are a badass! does this work for pm as well???

 

[SmashMac]

mr lemon you sir are a badass! does this work for pm as well???

It does not work for P:M. What does work though is Mario's up+B to wall tech. It's sick.

 

[d-man2292]

It does not work for P:M. What does work though is Mario's up+B to wall tech. It's sick.

oh dude i know! i abuse that so much, i was at a tourney last weekend and people kept counter picking like yoshi's story and yoshi's island, they signed a death wish xD

 

[Mr.Lemon]

Thanks for the love guys. I was actually using it in a tournament match the other day and the crowd's reaction was priceless.

 

[Superw0rri0]

Thanks for the love guys. I was actually using it in a tournament match the other day and the crowd's reaction was priceless.

You deserve it... because of you i can consistently do it. It works quite well against spacies shield pressure if you do it at the right time.

 

[DragonZProductions]

How can I practice the speed, because I am getting the turn around fairly regularly (maybe 75%) but have never gotten a single cancel on it. Any suggestions?

 

[Berble]

I shake my controller pretty hard as I flick the stick which seems to add speed to the flick rather than my thumb being that fast on its own.

 

[Superw0rri0]

It just takes time to get the right speed... it took me a looong time to get it consistently. Just try to flicking the control stick instead of just moving. That works for me. Also for some reason dashing into up B cancel helped me practice.

And don't forget that it's easier to up B cancel when you actually hit someone with it compared to not hitting it because when you do hit someone you get an extra frame or two.

 

[Berble]

The running tip made me up B cancel much more consistently Superw0ri0 thanks.

 

[DragonZProductions]

Well tomorrow is my first ever official tourney for melee so I wanted to see if I could get it before then but oh well. Maybe next time!