How to Up+B Cancel Video and Discussion

[Berble]

Yeah my first is tomorrow too. Trying to squeeze this in so I can try to make use of it tomorrow

 

[Superw0rri0]

Glad it helped... but don't get into a habit of using up b out of dash unless it's some wierd ass risky mix-up that you use because you're on your last stock and need to try something bizarre. I used it just to get the feel of it and eventually got to the point of being able to do it raw.

Edit:
Now that I think about it... what about wavedash into up b cancel? hmmmmmmmmmmm....

Double edit:
Grabbing is better but if they start to read your grabs then it's probably better to just jab or tilt. But if they start expecting both and for some reason they can read you like a book and you can't do much then maybe... MAYBE... you could use it.

And good luck on your tourney... try to record it if you can and get some critiques on dat doc asap

Meh tripple edit:
for the sake of pursuing uses of up b cancel.... here's a list of every way i can think of that you can use up b cancel and hopefully we can get into a discussion of good ways to use this and who knows.... maybe we'll find something viable
1. Raw up b cancel
2. Dash into up b cancel
3. Dash dance into up b cancel
4. Wavedash into up b cancel
5. up b cancel out of shield
6. up b cancel after tech
7. up b cancel after landing from a jump or just being in the air in general
8. up b cancel onto a platform
9. Waveland into up cancel
Everything from here on out is just strings of different moves that include the above.
10. Full hop pill into waveland (placebo effect) into up b cancel
11. ledge wavedash into up b cancel
12. Shbawd into up b cancel
13. (you ready for this one? this one is some super crazy ass move that I doubt anyone would expect but still might be COMPLETELY useless, risky, and stupid) defensive/offensive short hop into forward/backwards cape into up b cancel/waveland into up b cancel. Ya.... you just read that.
14. Jab into up b cancel (now that I think about it this might take to long to actually work but who knows)
15. L-canceled aerial into up b cancel
16 L-canceled aerial into jab into up b cancel
17. Tech chase into up b cancel

Keep in mind I'm not saying these are viable uses I'm just trying to be creative

Tbh i feel like for pretty much all of these grabbing or just normal attacks would be better... again the only use i see for these are some crazy desperate mix up.

The only thing i see going for up b cancel, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, is that up b has pretty good priority.

Also, there needs to be a consistent way into comboing with up b cancel., I haven't figured it out myself but I'm sure the older players have figured something out.

I feel like you can look at up b cancel as a kind if a pseudo falco shine that goes diagonally upward instead of straight upward but you can't jump cancel it. (which on that point alone makes it way worse than falco shine). Not to mention the lag on it. If there was some way we could remove that end lag on it then up b cancel's potential would go way up. However, i think that's impossible since what I think is going on when you up b cancel is that you start the up b and you go up a little bit, cancel it, and land again so you have the same landing lag that you would have on a normal up b and that's something that you can't cancel. Although, from what I understand, we shouldn't even be allowed to up b cancel in the first place. Assuming up b cancel is a glitch or a bug or whatever, then maybe there's something that we haven't found out about that could reduce up b cancel lag.

If someone could get a gif or pictures of the hitbox of the up b cancel.... that would be great.

I'll play around with it in practice and in tournament if i'm feeling ballsy

This video shows some possible uses
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTCgu4tQ4wk

Even this video shows some good stuff... I don't think any of us have seen it before
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWMDcnbPgy0

I can also see this being a good way to get someone off stage at low percents since it has set knock back.

Thoughts on this?
I'm really interested on a response from the older doc players. I expect you guys just to say it's completely not viable for x, y, or z but even that response is useful

tl;dr
AAAAGGHHH!!! I have so much to say... every time i finish an edit i keep thinking of more things :/ just take the time to read

 

[DragonZProductions]

Yeah my first tourney went well in the sense that I learned. I started the day rather poorly losing to someone who was very inexperienced, and then played against like the 4th best guy there and was crushed. So I played a ton of friendlies afterwards and I could feel myself playing 10-20 times better in comparison. Unfortunately no vids.

 

[Mr.Lemon]

I'll save you some time with this
Meh tripple edit:
for the sake of pursuing uses of up b cancel.... here's a list of every way i can think of that you can use up b cancel and hopefully we can get into a discussion of good ways to use this and who knows.... maybe we'll find something viable
1. Raw up b cancel - not worth it too much lag afterwards
2. Dash into up b cancel - there are better options
3. Dash dance into up b cancel - there are better options
4. Wavedash into up b cancel - there are better options
5. up b cancel out of shield - probably the best time to use it
6. up b cancel after tech - there are better options
7. up b cancel after landing from a jump or just being in the air in general - there are better options
8. up b cancel onto a platform - if you mean to get them onto a platform then yes, it's a great setup to tech chase them afterwards
9. Waveland into up cancel - it's not bad actually but there are better options
Everything from here on out is just strings of different moves that include the above.
10. Full hop pill into waveland (placebo effect) into up b cancel - there are WAY better options
11. ledge wavedash into up b cancel - this has come in handy actually if you can pull it off
12. Shbawd into up b cancel - if anyone can do this in battle you get a gold star in my book
13. (you ready for this one? this one is some super crazy *** move that I doubt anyone would expect but still might be COMPLETELY useless, risky, and stupid) defensive/offensive short hop into forward/backwards cape into up b cancel/waveland into up b cancel. Ya.... you just read that. - I loled
14. Jab into up b cancel (now that I think about it this might take to long to actually work but who knows) - it's a good mix up tbh
15. L-canceled aerial into up b cancel - actually a pretty good mix up and looks soooooo sick
16 L-canceled aerial into jab into up b cancel - there's no point in jabbing if you're going to up+b cancel afterwards
17. Tech chase into up b cancel - there are better options

Keep in mind I'm not saying these are viable uses I'm just trying to be creative

Tbh i feel like for pretty much all of these grabbing or just normal attacks would be better... again the only use i see for these are some crazy desperate mix up.

The only thing i see going for up b cancel, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, is that up b has pretty good priority. - it's alright priority wise

Also, there needs to be a consistent way into comboing with up b cancel., I haven't figured it out myself but I'm sure the older players have figured something out. - after using it in battle a lot I've learned that if they DI it straight up or towards you, you can combo after it. Especially if it's against a fastfaller

 

[Superw0rri0]

Thanks for the input...
In regards to your last comment at the end:
That's the whole point, Imagine your opponent has percent. Say for some reason your opponent knows that he's going to get hit by your d-smash or something. Lets say you don't have enough time to f-smash and just enough time to get a d-smash off but you know that if they properly DI your d-smash they won't die and they know it too. So they expect a d-smash and they'll just survival DI to live.... but wait, you up+b cancel all of a sudden their survival DI is turned against them and instead lets you combo a kobe.

That's how I'd like to use up+b cancel. It's just supposed to be an occasional mix up that throws off your opponent.

Edit:
Oh... and the up+b cancel out of shbawd.... I'll do it just for you

 

[Logz]

Wow that's crazy how good this is for spacing. I still can't really do it though... I either end up doing my up b in the opposite way or accidentally using my cape. I blame my slow, fat fingers =[. I guess practice makes perfect. Thanks for the thread though. I'mma try to learn this before a tournament tomorrow (doubt I'll get it down in time, but so be it lol.)

 

[Superw0rri0]

Glad to help... i don't know how experienced you are but I suggest to not worry about it too much right now... just work on fundamentals and then when you start to get more experienced (in other words... getting gud) then take the time to work on the more advanced tech skill.

 

[MrMo]

I know the name suggests otherwise, but regarding SHBAWD: do you wave-dash or air-dodge following a bair? I can do it both ways, but timing the wave-dash is harder for me.

Comments? Suggestions?

Thanks.

 

[Superw0rri0]

It's a wavedash hence Short Hop Back Air Wave Dash.... It just takes time to get the timing down. You kind of have to delay it a bit.

Edit:
It's kind of like doing the short hop double fair with marth

 

[Mr.Lemon]

but wait, you up+b cancel all of a sudden their survival DI is turned against them and instead lets you combo a kobe.

I've thought of this too, but I realize if they're going to DI your d.smash they'll DI it up. Which is the correct way to DI an up+b cancel so they won't get f.aired...or comboed at all for that matter.

 

[Superw0rri0]

I've thought of this too, but I realize if they're going to DI your d.smash they'll DI it up. Which is the correct way to DI an up+b cancel so they won't get f.aired...or comboed at all for that matter.

Ah ok.... well in the worst case scenario of actually landing an up+b cancel is that you kill momentum and you get some room to move around... and maybe a platform tech chase which could lead to a kill. Again... there's so many different things you can do in this game.... I don't see up+b cancel becoming bread and butter but I can see its uses

 

[krazyzyko]

This can be used like a shine OoS or after an L-cancel. This is amazing! Thank you good sir! Doc has so much potential.

 

[Amiibo Doctor]

Mr. Lemon, I love you. Have a hug.

 

[Amiibo Doctor]

Question: If the first frame is the Up+B, is it Frame 2 we cancel on, or 2-4? Does it have to be the exact opposite direction?

 

[Superw0rri0]

Question: If the first frame is the Up+B, is it Frame 2 we cancel on, or 2-4? Does it have to be the exact opposite direction?

Honestly... don't worry about frame data... just try to find the timing...
but to answer your question, it's a 3 frame window. I don't knwo the specifics but the frame data thread has the info on the up b cancel... it just doesn't call it up b cancel.

And no you don't have to do it the exact opposite direction. It just has to be the opposite direction so if I go left, I input right, if I go right, i input left.
It's not like if I input 45* up and left then I have to do 45* up and right. Just if left, then right, if right then left.

 

[schmooblidon]

Thanks Mr. Lemon! Have to say I have found it much easier and consistent to slam it in the opposite direction downwards. Slamming lets me do it as fast as I need to but it's awkward to slam it upwards, but downwards gives a nice straight line across for your thumb.

 

[kombucha]

After watching this video, I have gotten pretty close to perfecting the move against a standing enemy in training mode in about 30-45 minutes. Such a great video I had to make an account just to let ya know haha. Now I'm off to practice against a CPU for a couple days lol. Thanks for the help man.

 

[Logz]

After watching this video, I have gotten pretty close to perfecting the move against a standing enemy in training mode in about 30-45 minutes. Such a great video I had to make an account just to let ya know haha. Now I'm off to practice against a CPU for a couple days lol. Thanks for the help man.

Ugh I'm jealous. I try to practice Up-B cancel but I can never seem to get it...

 

[Superw0rri0]

Just follow the video and keep trying.... you'll figure out the trick eventually... I find it easier to do it out of a dash and then from there you can build it into your muscle memory and you'll soon be able to up b cancel anytime you want

 

[Logz]

Just follow the video and keep trying.... you'll figure out the trick eventually... I find it easier to do it out of a dash and then from there you can build it into your muscle memory and you'll soon be able to up b cancel anytime you want

Kewl thanks for the advice. I'll try harder tomorrow.

 

[Cornsauce]

Just figured out how to do this, and it's great. And yes, thank you Mr. Lemon.

If you're having trouble:

1. In the video, it says to try not to do it when it won't hit, since it's harder to do. I couldn't do it for the life of me just on a flat platform by myself. But if it hits, it's not too hard.

2. If you keep caping by accident like I was at first, the angles don't have to be diagonal. For example, or is what I do. Even something like would work.

3. I recommend not trying to do it on 1/2 or 1/4 speed in training mode. It's actually quite difficult to get the timing, much easier on full speed.

 

[Marilink]

I watched this video a while ago (thanks for making it so clear and easy to understand!), and now that I'm starting to actually implement Up-B Cancels into my gameplay, I am really loving it. It's a great defensive option against shield pressure, and then an excellent jab/L-cancelled aerial mix-up. It really helps with my mind games, and is a cool-looking enough move to be distracting to your opponent when they see it.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

looks like shroomed still didn't learn to up-b cancel

 

[Daytrip]

Wow. Can't believe I've never actually seen this before. After learning it, I stepped up my doc game tenfold. Thanks!

 

[Zonak]

http://gfycat.com/OpulentSpiritedDalmatian

Up-b Cancel 2 gud

 

[Superw0rri0]

Not to say that the up b cancel wasn't useful there or anything but tbh that doc made some pretty poor decisions there. I wouldn't say he got the kill because of the up b cancel.

 

[Krynxe]

Not to say that the up b cancel wasn't useful there or anything but tbh that doc made some pretty poor decisions there. I wouldn't say he got the kill because of the up b cancel.

True, but you could tell that it definitely got to the other plater's head which contributed to the kill

 

[Zonak]

It's mostly using the Up-B cancel to style on people. It feels so good when you've figured your opponent out and do stuff like that

 

[VGmasta]

I don't feel like breaking my controller just to learn Up-B cancelling.

I'll critique myself in this video.
My movement was good.
My edgeguarding was mediocre.
My defense was ok-ish.
My offense sucked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fME-pFy3Jk

 

[net1234]

frame 3 invincible oos option gg spacies

up b cancel ->wd off platform taunt cancel -> uair -> dj fair gg

 

[Superw0rri0]

frame 3 invincible oos option gg spacies

up b cancel ->wd off platform taunt cancel -> uair -> dj fair gg

Go back to the Utah thread XD

 

[Hero_of_Time]

Ever since I saw this thread I've been practicing up+b canceling at the end of my practice sessions. I can't wait to try this in game. So much style. Does anyone else use this as a taunt?

 

[Superw0rri0]

Ever since I saw this thread I've been practicing up+b canceling at the end of my practice sessions. I can't wait to try this in game. So much style. Does anyone else use this as a taunt?

Honestly... You'll rarely ever get the chance to use it... maybe in spacies match up if you time it right but even then it doesn't really give that much of a set up unless they're gonna land on a platform above you... and no i don't use it too taunt... i press up for that XD... and wavedash related tech skill.... kind of like the spacies but with doc

 

[schmooblidon]

If I have a stock or two to spare I'll likely disrespect with it. Use it in jab mixups or straight up wd in>up-bc if they're bad. I do it on PS during transformations too. Occasionally do it on randall as it goes into the wall for style points.

Perfect waveland taunt cancels are way more boss though. Getting it so yo get the max amount of taunt frames, so swag.

 

[Superw0rri0]

Occasionally do it on randall

Lol.... if you mess up.... XD

 

[Crome]

Is it weird I can do this pretty consistently facing right, but I havent been able to do it one to the left?

 

[schmooblidon]

Is it weird I can do this pretty consistently facing right, but I havent been able to do it one to the left?

Not really. I personally do them slightly less consistently facing right, but that's mostly because I practiced them more facing left.

My guess is you are pressing B when your stick is . The way I do them facing left is by doing a quarter circle from to and pressing B a fraction of a second after I start.

So It goes something like this:

> >> >

You cannot press B on the diagonal notch, that will start a cape, but a tiny bit above will start the up-b..You could however just do:

> >

But I personally prefer the first because I'm less likely to cape backwards, and have more success with hitlag.

 

[DanlulZ]

I've learned alot about Doc lately and its pretty eye opening.
The way I see it people play melee in two ways:
Top tier characters they enjoy and win with
And the mid tier champions who usually have twice as much fun.

Also used upB cancel into falco firebird last night with my buddy to finish a doubles, priceless move!

 

[Smasher81]

For some reason I keep upB'ing in the opposite direction of the initial upB start and not canceling it. I even did this frame by frame and got the same result. Anyone know why?

 

[schmooblidon]

well upbing backwards normally means you are doing it too slow. i find this is mostly because it doesnt go back to neutral in time.

frame by frame means you are doing the wrong inputs. they should be:

1 - Up-B
2 - Stick is anywhere
3 - Stick is Back
4 - Stick is anywhere but back