Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2005
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- Scotch Plains, NJ
- NNID
- ShinEmblemLord
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- 3926-6895-0574
- Switch FC
- SW-0793-4091-6136
This thread is to share the knowledge I gained on how Marth is played in 2v2. I will discuss what his best assets are in teams, his good stages, what moves to use, how to set up for team combos, how he should be used on offense, his good partners, and how he can support his partner. Please read on and I hope this information is of use to the Marth community.
A first look at Marth in teams
The first thing a Marth player learns when playing him in teams is that he plays unlike any other character. He can't rush into the fray blindly like Shiek, Fox, Falco, and Peach can. The other top 5 all have moves that allow them to jump right into the battle and break up fights. Shiek has her dash attack and her d-smash. Fox and Falco have thier shines and thier Nairs. Falco has his Dair. Peach has her dash attack, her float cancelled aerials, and her d-smash. The others can also support better as well. They all have projectiles and have moves that allow them to save thier partners. Marth really can't save his partners that well. Not only can he not support that well, but he can't tank that well either. Peach is a rock in teams that is virtually unkillable. She just won't die. The others can't CC as well as her, but they can all CC better then Marth can.
Knowing all of this it looks like the other high tiers are better choices in 2v2, but Marth has advantages over them that still make him a powerful force in 2v2. For starters, although he can't CC quite as well as the others he can still take a hit. Fox and Falco especially will usually die alot sooner then Marth will in 2v2. And those two are far more susceptible to death combos or other devastating combos. And even though he can't rush into the fray, that can actually be a good thing. If you are in the fray you are much more likely to take damage, get double teamed, or team comboed. He also has a decent recovery, unlike Falco. There is also Marth's incredible killing power to consider. So although he has his cons, he definitely has his good points as well. Let's take a deeper look into Marth's 2v2 game shall we?
Marth the Stock Wh*ring Assassin
Let me start off by saying that even though Marth plays so differently in teams then other characters he is by no means a bad teammate. I talked about some of his good points and now I'll go a little deeper. Marth in teams is actually a strange combination of a killer mixed with a stock wh*re. What does that mean? Well, not only can he hold onto stocks, but he'll also be taking other people's stocks out. How does he accomplish this? It's all about his sword and how he is played. Because of his blade he is unable to charge straight into the battle. But because of this he will be taking less damage and usually he will be in less danger.
His great range also allows him to attack foes much more safely then other characters. The others don't have this luxury and so they put thier stocks at risk everytime they attack an opponent and rush into the fray.
Also as I said previously Marth can take some punishment. Not as much as Peach, but definitely more then Fox and Falco. They also have to worry alot more about deadly combos then him. It's not uncommon for a Marth to live well into 150% or higher in teams, and have space animals die at 110% or lower. Marth is also a killing machine. It's easy for him to get kills at as low as 60% with a tipper f-smash because in teams people don't always DI correctly. This is because there is so much going on. Still it isn't just his f-smash that makes him godly at killing. It's his edgeguarding. Marth is hailed as the best edge guarder in the game. With good edgeguarding Marth can take out stocks for an early stock lead. And getting a good stock lead is pivotal in winning 2v2 games. His amazing combos are also very important in racking up damage. In 1v1 games Marth has trouble killing opponents once they hit high percents. But in 2v2 that rule goes out the window. Marth is free to go nuts in racking up damage and then he just let his partner finish the job. His aerials, u-tilt, and his grabs are awesome for setting up kills as well. As you can see Marth has his weaknesses, but his strengths make up for them.
Marth on Offense
Marth has several tools at his disposal that will probably see alot more use in 2v2 then 1v1. Specifically his ground attacks will be used alot more in 2v2. Generally his d-tilt, his f-tilt, and his grabs will be the moves that a Marth in teams uses the most. His f-smash will see some use, but it can be dangerous if used unwisely as you can easily kill your partner. Marth's aerials will probably see less use in 2v2 out side of combos. Only because jumping alot in 2v2 is asking to be comboed and Marth stays in the air quite a bit. SHFFLED Fairs are still good though and should be used.
Ultimately Marth's goal is to isolate one of his opponents so he can play his normal game against them. Then get them off the stage as quickly as possible so you can edge guard for the kill. D-tilts and grabs will be the moves of choice when he and the other characters are in close proximity. D-tilt has little lag and is very safe. Grabs are good for setting up combos and seperating the opposing team. Just be careful because your opponents partner could attack you while you are in your throw animation. But if your partner is good they will keep them distracted. Nairs are good for knocking opponents out of the sky and then you can tech chase from there.
Remember to abuse u-tilts when your opponents are on platforms. Go for an easy f-smash if your partner isn't on the platform as well. You can u-smash your opponent if your partner is on the platform. The knockback is high. It's really only slightly weaker then Foxes u-smash. When your opponents are distracted with your partner, that is the perfect time to stage an offense. Go for an easy grab then f-throw or u-throw, then combo from there. You could also d-throw tech chase or do a d-tilt to grab. If you just want to quickly get them off the side then go for a nair, an f-smash, or an easy Dancing Blade combo. This way both of your opponents will be on one side. One will be off the stage and the other will be dealing with your partner. Both of you can attack the one that is still on the stage and get him off. Then you just have to edge guard both of them. Your partner should probably just edge hog, then when they try to land on the stage Marth can just knock them back off.
Be careful with those f-smashes in this situation. You don't want to kill your partner. Remember to take advantage of when your partner grabs someone. That's an easy kill with an f-smash if your opponents percentage is high enough. But don't jump the gun either. If thier percentage is low then it's better if you let your partner combo them off of the grab. If you run in foolishly and try to smash then your partner will most likely be hit because they weren't expecting you to rush in for an attack. For the most part Marth just has to play smart and be aware of his range, lest he kill his partner. Go for early kills to get a lead and then keep that lead. Marth can play aggressively in teams, just not blind aggression.
Marth as a Support Character
Marth may not be the best at support, but he can still do his part. He excels at stopping opponents from comboing his partner. If your partner is ever caught in a combo just run up to your opponent and fair, grab, or d-tilt. Doesn't really matter if you hit your partner or not. Try not to hit them of course, but they will be grateful that they didn't get comboed all over the place so they probably won't mind. Still try not to tipper your attacks if you fear hitting your partner. You could also space your attacks so that you don't tipper your partner, but you do tipper your opponent and then you can combo them from there.
If your partner is grabbed and thrown then your actions should change depending on where they were thrown. If they were thrown upwards or backwards then you can just run and grab or f-smash. If they were thrown down then do a d-tilt or a grab. If they were thrown forwards then you could grab them and throw them out of harms way. But be ready to DI because you will most likely be attacked after saving your partner. If you aren't attacked then shield or roll to avoid retaliation. You could also just run past them and grab or attack your opponent if your partner was thrown forwards. If you are close then you should shield to avoid being hit by your partner as they are thrown. Then shield grab or JC fair or JC nair to attack your opponent.
He can save his partner when they are off the stage if he must even though it isn't his strong point. If your partner is getting edge guarded grab your opponent and toss them off or throw them into thier own partner while your partner recovers. Or you could just go for an easy f-smash. If your partner is too far to come back then run out and hit them with a non-tippered Bair or a tippered Uair. Hit them with the Bair if they are high. Hit them with the Uair if they are low.
Supporting your partner isn't all about helping them out though. It's also about working together to score easy kills. Grabbing is the easiest way to do this. Marth can put his amazing grab range to good use in 2v2. He can easily get grabs and then have his partner score some damage or a K.O. U-throw is a great set up for a characters with powerful fairs. And remember that if your partner gets a grab in then it's time for you to throw out a perfectly spaced tipper f-smash. Marth's combos set up perfectly for his partners to finish the job. Tipper fairs have a long stun time and they send opponents vertically. This is great for characters with powerful Uairs and Bairs. His u-tilt sets up for any aerial from any character. Marth is beastly when it comes to KO set-ups.
Marth's good team stages
Ideally you want to pick a stage that is at least decent for both you and your partner. Marth does well on virtually all of the neutrals and poorly on most of the counter pick stages. So of course his partner choice will be affected by these facts. Unfortunately alot of the other characters do well on stages that Marth doesn't do well on and vice versa. Well, there's always FD. Still with this knowledge in mind it might be best to pick a stage that caters to one character and the other will at least not be hindered by it. The neutral stages are good for this.
Partners for Marth
Marth can partner fairly well with any type. Still since he is a mix of a killer and a stock w*ore it might be best if he teamed with some one that covered the attributes that he doesn't. Peach is a solid tank, with good killing power, great support skills, and a good projectile. She makes a great partner for him and his speed can cover for her lack there of. He also does well with Shiek and Jigglypuff. Shiek and Marth both have great combos and can take a fair amount of punishment. The roles they play in 2v2 are very similar although she is able to rush in the fray, has needles for offense and support, and has killer aerials. Jigglypuff has great recovery so Marth will rarely ever have to save her. Her rests combined with Marth's great grab range will allow them to get easy kills for large stock leads. Fox and Falco are good partners as well. Fox with Marth is all about raw speed combined with incredible killing power. Fox can save his partner better then Marth can, but Marth is better at getting stock leads. Falco has his lasers for great support. He can't take punishment as well though so Marth will have to look out for him. And he isn't as good at killing as Marth, but Marth can cover that area for him. Still Falco is excellent at building damage and saving his partner. His Bair is a great finisher in team combos. Another good teammate is Captain Falcon. His killing power is great thanks to his knee, but his bad recovery means Marth will have to help him out so it might be better to have Fox or Shiek as partners. Thier killing power is just as great, but they have better recoveries.
Overall I would say Peach, Fox, and Shiek are Marth's best partners.
General Tips for playing Marth in 2v2
- When teaming with a slower character Marth should be the one going ahead to rush the opposing team, with is partner bring up the rear. If he is teaming with a faster character it may be wiser to let them lead the attack while Marth follows.
- Often times you may find that while your partner is in the thick if things you aren't doing much. That's ok. Watch and wait. Pick your moment to strike wisely when the opposing team is preoccupied with your partner.
- Make sure your partner understands the range on Marth's sword. They need to know it just as intimately as you do. This way they will know when to expect an f-smash and they won't suddenly run in and get hit by accident.
- Let your partner know that he needs to back off once in awhile and let you get that early kill. Marth is only as effective in teams as his partner allows him to be. His F-smash is a powerful tool, but you won't ever unleash it if your partner is always in your way. Communicate with your partner so they know when they need to get out of your way. Many of your opportunites to score an f-smash will go out the window because you are afraid that you will hit your partner. There are ways around this. First of all tell your partner that when they know you can nail an f-smash, that they should roll or jump out of the way. Also they should know not to chase opponents on to platforms because that is an easy f-smash for Marth. If they are ever on a platform they need to get off immediately. A mean thing that will teach your partner to move is just to unleash that f-smash every once and awhile even when you know it will hit them too. Yes, they'll get upset, but they will soon learn when to rush in and when to let you handle the situation.
- Be aware of the entire battlefield. You need to be able to abandon your attack at a moments notice to save your partner or capitilize on your opponents obliviousness.
- Marth generally works better in teams when he is teaming with someone that also knows how to play Marth. This is because his partner will have intimate knowledge of Marth's range and when to get out of his way.
I hope you have enjoyed reading this and that I have departed some knowledge onto you that was unknown to you before hand. Please feel free to contribute to this thread. If good tips and strategies are posted I will add them to this post.
A first look at Marth in teams
The first thing a Marth player learns when playing him in teams is that he plays unlike any other character. He can't rush into the fray blindly like Shiek, Fox, Falco, and Peach can. The other top 5 all have moves that allow them to jump right into the battle and break up fights. Shiek has her dash attack and her d-smash. Fox and Falco have thier shines and thier Nairs. Falco has his Dair. Peach has her dash attack, her float cancelled aerials, and her d-smash. The others can also support better as well. They all have projectiles and have moves that allow them to save thier partners. Marth really can't save his partners that well. Not only can he not support that well, but he can't tank that well either. Peach is a rock in teams that is virtually unkillable. She just won't die. The others can't CC as well as her, but they can all CC better then Marth can.
Knowing all of this it looks like the other high tiers are better choices in 2v2, but Marth has advantages over them that still make him a powerful force in 2v2. For starters, although he can't CC quite as well as the others he can still take a hit. Fox and Falco especially will usually die alot sooner then Marth will in 2v2. And those two are far more susceptible to death combos or other devastating combos. And even though he can't rush into the fray, that can actually be a good thing. If you are in the fray you are much more likely to take damage, get double teamed, or team comboed. He also has a decent recovery, unlike Falco. There is also Marth's incredible killing power to consider. So although he has his cons, he definitely has his good points as well. Let's take a deeper look into Marth's 2v2 game shall we?
Marth the Stock Wh*ring Assassin
Let me start off by saying that even though Marth plays so differently in teams then other characters he is by no means a bad teammate. I talked about some of his good points and now I'll go a little deeper. Marth in teams is actually a strange combination of a killer mixed with a stock wh*re. What does that mean? Well, not only can he hold onto stocks, but he'll also be taking other people's stocks out. How does he accomplish this? It's all about his sword and how he is played. Because of his blade he is unable to charge straight into the battle. But because of this he will be taking less damage and usually he will be in less danger.
His great range also allows him to attack foes much more safely then other characters. The others don't have this luxury and so they put thier stocks at risk everytime they attack an opponent and rush into the fray.
Also as I said previously Marth can take some punishment. Not as much as Peach, but definitely more then Fox and Falco. They also have to worry alot more about deadly combos then him. It's not uncommon for a Marth to live well into 150% or higher in teams, and have space animals die at 110% or lower. Marth is also a killing machine. It's easy for him to get kills at as low as 60% with a tipper f-smash because in teams people don't always DI correctly. This is because there is so much going on. Still it isn't just his f-smash that makes him godly at killing. It's his edgeguarding. Marth is hailed as the best edge guarder in the game. With good edgeguarding Marth can take out stocks for an early stock lead. And getting a good stock lead is pivotal in winning 2v2 games. His amazing combos are also very important in racking up damage. In 1v1 games Marth has trouble killing opponents once they hit high percents. But in 2v2 that rule goes out the window. Marth is free to go nuts in racking up damage and then he just let his partner finish the job. His aerials, u-tilt, and his grabs are awesome for setting up kills as well. As you can see Marth has his weaknesses, but his strengths make up for them.
Marth on Offense
Marth has several tools at his disposal that will probably see alot more use in 2v2 then 1v1. Specifically his ground attacks will be used alot more in 2v2. Generally his d-tilt, his f-tilt, and his grabs will be the moves that a Marth in teams uses the most. His f-smash will see some use, but it can be dangerous if used unwisely as you can easily kill your partner. Marth's aerials will probably see less use in 2v2 out side of combos. Only because jumping alot in 2v2 is asking to be comboed and Marth stays in the air quite a bit. SHFFLED Fairs are still good though and should be used.
Ultimately Marth's goal is to isolate one of his opponents so he can play his normal game against them. Then get them off the stage as quickly as possible so you can edge guard for the kill. D-tilts and grabs will be the moves of choice when he and the other characters are in close proximity. D-tilt has little lag and is very safe. Grabs are good for setting up combos and seperating the opposing team. Just be careful because your opponents partner could attack you while you are in your throw animation. But if your partner is good they will keep them distracted. Nairs are good for knocking opponents out of the sky and then you can tech chase from there.
Remember to abuse u-tilts when your opponents are on platforms. Go for an easy f-smash if your partner isn't on the platform as well. You can u-smash your opponent if your partner is on the platform. The knockback is high. It's really only slightly weaker then Foxes u-smash. When your opponents are distracted with your partner, that is the perfect time to stage an offense. Go for an easy grab then f-throw or u-throw, then combo from there. You could also d-throw tech chase or do a d-tilt to grab. If you just want to quickly get them off the side then go for a nair, an f-smash, or an easy Dancing Blade combo. This way both of your opponents will be on one side. One will be off the stage and the other will be dealing with your partner. Both of you can attack the one that is still on the stage and get him off. Then you just have to edge guard both of them. Your partner should probably just edge hog, then when they try to land on the stage Marth can just knock them back off.
Be careful with those f-smashes in this situation. You don't want to kill your partner. Remember to take advantage of when your partner grabs someone. That's an easy kill with an f-smash if your opponents percentage is high enough. But don't jump the gun either. If thier percentage is low then it's better if you let your partner combo them off of the grab. If you run in foolishly and try to smash then your partner will most likely be hit because they weren't expecting you to rush in for an attack. For the most part Marth just has to play smart and be aware of his range, lest he kill his partner. Go for early kills to get a lead and then keep that lead. Marth can play aggressively in teams, just not blind aggression.
Marth as a Support Character
Marth may not be the best at support, but he can still do his part. He excels at stopping opponents from comboing his partner. If your partner is ever caught in a combo just run up to your opponent and fair, grab, or d-tilt. Doesn't really matter if you hit your partner or not. Try not to hit them of course, but they will be grateful that they didn't get comboed all over the place so they probably won't mind. Still try not to tipper your attacks if you fear hitting your partner. You could also space your attacks so that you don't tipper your partner, but you do tipper your opponent and then you can combo them from there.
If your partner is grabbed and thrown then your actions should change depending on where they were thrown. If they were thrown upwards or backwards then you can just run and grab or f-smash. If they were thrown down then do a d-tilt or a grab. If they were thrown forwards then you could grab them and throw them out of harms way. But be ready to DI because you will most likely be attacked after saving your partner. If you aren't attacked then shield or roll to avoid retaliation. You could also just run past them and grab or attack your opponent if your partner was thrown forwards. If you are close then you should shield to avoid being hit by your partner as they are thrown. Then shield grab or JC fair or JC nair to attack your opponent.
He can save his partner when they are off the stage if he must even though it isn't his strong point. If your partner is getting edge guarded grab your opponent and toss them off or throw them into thier own partner while your partner recovers. Or you could just go for an easy f-smash. If your partner is too far to come back then run out and hit them with a non-tippered Bair or a tippered Uair. Hit them with the Bair if they are high. Hit them with the Uair if they are low.
Supporting your partner isn't all about helping them out though. It's also about working together to score easy kills. Grabbing is the easiest way to do this. Marth can put his amazing grab range to good use in 2v2. He can easily get grabs and then have his partner score some damage or a K.O. U-throw is a great set up for a characters with powerful fairs. And remember that if your partner gets a grab in then it's time for you to throw out a perfectly spaced tipper f-smash. Marth's combos set up perfectly for his partners to finish the job. Tipper fairs have a long stun time and they send opponents vertically. This is great for characters with powerful Uairs and Bairs. His u-tilt sets up for any aerial from any character. Marth is beastly when it comes to KO set-ups.
Marth's good team stages
Ideally you want to pick a stage that is at least decent for both you and your partner. Marth does well on virtually all of the neutrals and poorly on most of the counter pick stages. So of course his partner choice will be affected by these facts. Unfortunately alot of the other characters do well on stages that Marth doesn't do well on and vice versa. Well, there's always FD. Still with this knowledge in mind it might be best to pick a stage that caters to one character and the other will at least not be hindered by it. The neutral stages are good for this.
Partners for Marth
Marth can partner fairly well with any type. Still since he is a mix of a killer and a stock w*ore it might be best if he teamed with some one that covered the attributes that he doesn't. Peach is a solid tank, with good killing power, great support skills, and a good projectile. She makes a great partner for him and his speed can cover for her lack there of. He also does well with Shiek and Jigglypuff. Shiek and Marth both have great combos and can take a fair amount of punishment. The roles they play in 2v2 are very similar although she is able to rush in the fray, has needles for offense and support, and has killer aerials. Jigglypuff has great recovery so Marth will rarely ever have to save her. Her rests combined with Marth's great grab range will allow them to get easy kills for large stock leads. Fox and Falco are good partners as well. Fox with Marth is all about raw speed combined with incredible killing power. Fox can save his partner better then Marth can, but Marth is better at getting stock leads. Falco has his lasers for great support. He can't take punishment as well though so Marth will have to look out for him. And he isn't as good at killing as Marth, but Marth can cover that area for him. Still Falco is excellent at building damage and saving his partner. His Bair is a great finisher in team combos. Another good teammate is Captain Falcon. His killing power is great thanks to his knee, but his bad recovery means Marth will have to help him out so it might be better to have Fox or Shiek as partners. Thier killing power is just as great, but they have better recoveries.
Overall I would say Peach, Fox, and Shiek are Marth's best partners.
General Tips for playing Marth in 2v2
- When teaming with a slower character Marth should be the one going ahead to rush the opposing team, with is partner bring up the rear. If he is teaming with a faster character it may be wiser to let them lead the attack while Marth follows.
- Often times you may find that while your partner is in the thick if things you aren't doing much. That's ok. Watch and wait. Pick your moment to strike wisely when the opposing team is preoccupied with your partner.
- Make sure your partner understands the range on Marth's sword. They need to know it just as intimately as you do. This way they will know when to expect an f-smash and they won't suddenly run in and get hit by accident.
- Let your partner know that he needs to back off once in awhile and let you get that early kill. Marth is only as effective in teams as his partner allows him to be. His F-smash is a powerful tool, but you won't ever unleash it if your partner is always in your way. Communicate with your partner so they know when they need to get out of your way. Many of your opportunites to score an f-smash will go out the window because you are afraid that you will hit your partner. There are ways around this. First of all tell your partner that when they know you can nail an f-smash, that they should roll or jump out of the way. Also they should know not to chase opponents on to platforms because that is an easy f-smash for Marth. If they are ever on a platform they need to get off immediately. A mean thing that will teach your partner to move is just to unleash that f-smash every once and awhile even when you know it will hit them too. Yes, they'll get upset, but they will soon learn when to rush in and when to let you handle the situation.
- Be aware of the entire battlefield. You need to be able to abandon your attack at a moments notice to save your partner or capitilize on your opponents obliviousness.
- Marth generally works better in teams when he is teaming with someone that also knows how to play Marth. This is because his partner will have intimate knowledge of Marth's range and when to get out of his way.
I hope you have enjoyed reading this and that I have departed some knowledge onto you that was unknown to you before hand. Please feel free to contribute to this thread. If good tips and strategies are posted I will add them to this post.
