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How to make sheik/zelda a balanced character in brawl

S2

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so, you would prefer to actually make sheik better?

the most integral changes to sheik would be nerfing her aerials and her down throw. She's simply too good as is... she nneeds to be changed whether you like her or not
Yes, chain throw and godly aerials need to go.
Lets let Sheik users actually work for a KO.

Do people even play Sheik at tournaments? She has to work very hard for KOs.

Shes only "overpowered" at low level play because newbs dont' know how to deal with her.

She's pretty much fine as she is, she does not need buffs though.


Zelda does need a buff. Basically the only way to "balance" the character is to simply make both Zelda and Sheik worthwhile to play as. In Melee there was nothing about Zelda that would make it logical to choose her over Sheik. The only point to Zelda was if you liked beating on people with a low tier. Which was fun.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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they should still combo to nice damages before they become inneffective

otherwise sheik will become obselete Imean, ideally, all she would be good for is racking up damage... take that away from her and she's got nothing
 

Luthien

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they should still combo to nice damages before they become inneffective

otherwise sheik will become obselete Imean, ideally, all she would be good for is racking up damage... take that away from her and she's got nothing
Very true. I don't want Sheik to be bad. I just don't want Sheik to be an absolute god either. I was just thinking that Sheik would have to work for her combos, and not just tilt her enemies off the face of the earth. I completely agree with Iris's post.

I'd actually like Sheik to be better in the air than Zelda, and Zelda to have all the ground power (once again, the situation idea). But since Zelda's fair is pretty much all of her game, and the scans say that 2/3 of Zelda's moves are arials (I think), and 3/3 of Sheik's KO moves are ground attacks (""), it looks like they're making it the other way around. I'm not sure if the scans are trustworthy, though...

At this point, I'm really fine with anything.
 

Feral1

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I hear ya, but my reason for wanting the characters to be equal and for Sheik to be less pwning machine is so my friends will stop complaining about me " coming out of nowhere and B!ch slapping me " lol, although I will shead a few tears if they remove that fair.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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Very true. I don't want Sheik to be bad. I just don't want Sheik to be an absolute god either. I was just thinking that Sheik would have to work for her combos, and not just tilt her enemies off the face of the earth. I completely agree with Iris's post.

I'd actually like Sheik to be better in the air than Zelda, and Zelda to have all the ground power (once again, the situation idea). But since Zelda's fair is pretty much all of her game, and the scans say that 2/3 of Zelda's moves are arials (I think), and 3/3 of Sheik's KO moves are ground attacks (""), it looks like they're making it the other way around. I'm not sure if the scans are trustworthy, though...

At this point, I'm really fine with anything.
those scans that I've seen aren't reliable... based on their means of measuring, it obviously favours KO moves that KO off the top of the stage ;)
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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And that explains why Sheik's fair isn't on the list. Still, the fair/bair buff on Zelda's behalf has done wonders for my morale.
even in melee, sheik's fair wasn't powerful, per se, it was just abuseable due to its speed, priority and trajectory.... also it was easy to combo into, easy to spam and had decent power...

.... but any way you slice it... a lightning kick KO at that low a % is godly
 

blueriku

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Originally Posted by blueriku View Post
heres my list of things

Changes to sheik...
1: her f smash should be more like links when you can delay the two kicks or not even do the 2nd hit
Or just make it like Links F-smash

2: down smash should not be so powerful the you can own space animals or any FF with it so tone it down a bit
Eh, I agree with this.

3: nerf all her air game f air and b air especially, in fact any smash atk should not KO until very high percents ( 180- 200 at least)
180-200% is obscene. Her entire air game does not need nerfing, main her fair. Possible some of her other aerials, but making all of them obsolete makes her a glorified sandbag.

4: her chain should now be a tether recovery, as well as cancel out projectiles but does crappy damage and can't be used as weapon.
Chain as a tether recovery just sounds stupid IMO, and it all ready does cancel out all projectiles, does worthless damage, and you can't use it as a weapon (well)

5: no chain grabs that made everyone hate sheik.....
Lol, Dedede has them now
Watch the new vids of Masashi vs Ikki in the General discussion.

6: fast transformation for damage with sheik to zelda KO combos
Eh, I think that they should still be able to function independently.

7: over all sheik should be more damage less KO ability basically she can combo but its extremely rare to KO with sheik
It shouldn't be rare, it should just be difficult.

8: her needles should not cancel out any projectiles that are obviously more powerful (e.g samus's charged shot) in stead needles can cancel small projectiles like samus's missle or one laser blast from fox/falco (with a full needle storm sheik's needles can go through fox/falco's laser's since its faster) and link's arrow can't be cancel but instead the trajectory is altered as for his boomerang a full needle storm will slow it down (cause it to travel a shorter distance)
Well duh.

Changes to zelda

1: give her more priority in melee this was a big reason why she sucked most chars. can out prioritize her so more prioity would be in order here i would say about the same priority that peach has
It's not just that she has no priority, it's that she's slow and predictable. Her recovery is also the crappage.

2: All strong magic atk's have a no flinch hit meaning you just can't walk up to zelda and hit use out of smash instead she'll resist and still do the smash hit. (also if farore's wind is slow that to should have a no flinch hit as well)
Super armor frames don't fit Zelda IMO. They should just be slightly faster.

3: zelda should be heavier not to heavy but heavy enough that she is more resistant than her counterpart sheik.
Medium, not heavy.

4: physically faster (basically running and jumping) not to fast like sheik but slightly faster.
She should still be slow IMO, have you ever tried running in a full length dress?

and well this is my view on what can change...



Red is win.
yea i think i went a little to overboard on thing on that i just re-read everthing lol most of the things you said i agreed...oh well
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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anyway, it looks like they went with my first suggestion which is: keep sheik's moves the same.

the vids I'v seen seem to show sheik's moves as looking nigh identical... we'll just have to see what they look like in terms of power and such
 

blueriku

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anyway, it looks like they went with my first suggestion which is: keep sheik's moves the same.

the vids I'v seen seem to show sheik's moves as looking nigh identical... we'll just have to see what they look like in terms of power and such
yeah you're right i hope a vid of a sheik match will pop up soon and give us some more info to see how sheik is in brawl and we also should keep in mind with the new physic's brawl introduces.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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sheik even appears to be using items the same way.
I'm not sure if it looks like the smashes came out as fast, but that could be a result of the fact that brawl plays slower on the whole
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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yeah... I guess people forget that sheik matched up favourable against about 90% of the cast
 

Luthien

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Bump.

Well, now that some people have gotten their hands on the game, perhaps we should review just what changes have been made to the two? I'm gonna be reffering to your first post for what has occured.

Changes to sheik
1) Check
2) Check
3) Check
4) Check, in a way. The transformation is a little too slow to risk it mid-battle though, wouldn't you say?
5) No

Changes to Zelda
1) Check
2) No
3) Check
4) Technically, no. They used solution 3 to fix this, though.
5) Check and No. Fair/Bair have been nerfed (in the end), Nair has stayed the same, and Bair/Uair have been buffed. I'd say Check overall.
6) Doesn't really need an answer.

At any rate, now that some of us have played the game, are there any situations in which you would actually want to change-mid battle? Any general strategies at all? Just curious.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

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Bump.

Well, now that some people have gotten their hands on the game, perhaps we should review just what changes have been made to the two? I'm gonna be reffering to your first post for what has occured.

Changes to sheik
1) Check
2) Check
3) Check
4) Check, in a way. The transformation is a little too slow to risk it mid-battle though, wouldn't you say?
5) No

Changes to Zelda
1) Check
2) No
3) Check
4) Technically, no. They used solution 3 to fix this, though.
5) Check and No. Fair/Bair have been nerfed (in the end), Nair has stayed the same, and Bair/Uair have been buffed. I'd say Check overall.
6) Doesn't really need an answer.

At any rate, now that some of us have played the game, are there any situations in which you would actually want to change-mid battle? Any general strategies at all? Just curious.
>_< Dang... I don't wanna necro-post.... but I wanna fix this...

Shiek is the 2nd fastest faller in brawl... and now many zelda main are starting to use a joint Zelda+Shiek strategy... as a result... 100% of the shiek corrections came to fruition... w00t w00t

as for zelda... 2 is still a no... but at least it's better now because it attacks upon reapearance
and.. for #4... Nayru's love has invincibility... that's something I guess

I'm actually surprised I got it right for the most part... normally game designers disapoint me.

oh... and you can let this thread die again.. I just forgot to check it for way too long
 
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