Q&A How to Jump - Mario "Help Me" Q&A Thread

[DtJ XeroXen]

Kongo Jungle isn't actually legal in my region, so I dont' have much of an opinion on it other than it's fine in matchups where we want to play defensive. (I'd probably CP it vs. Sonic, **** that guy)

 

[MarioMeteor]

Hey Mario mains!
I'm making a general character guide and was wondering what are Mario's best and worst stages?
All feedback is welcome and thank you in advance !

Any stage that allows Mario to freely wall jump is a friend to him. If you want the best stage, I'd have to go with Delfino. Allow me to jump on the bandwagon and say as so many others have eloquently stated, **** Kongo Jungle.

 

[Minwu]

kongo is excellent for super jump punch abuse though, strong against vertically challenged characters

is dthrow punishable at low%s? i played a mario ditto on FG and this guy broke out of my dthrow->utilt with a nair...

 

[MarioMeteor]

kongo is excellent for super jump punch abuse though, strong against vertically challenged characters

is dthrow punishable at low%s? i played a mario ditto on FG and this guy broke out of my dthrow->utilt with a nair...

Very. Especially against heavyweights and characters like Mario and Doc with frame 2 Nairs. I usually stick to down tilt at low percents for combos.

 

[HeroMystic]

They're actually frame 3.

The only one with a frame 2 N-air is Little Mac.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Yeah, that was a typo. I was multitasking. Mega Man's Nair is frame 2, just so you know.

 

[HeroMystic]

Good to know. Megaman's pellets are all the same to me though.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Good to know. Megaman's pellets are all the same to me though.

You'd be surprised at how helpful they are. They seem useless at first, until you realize that everytime you successfully space with them you get a free 3%. Not to mention how plain disruptive and annoying they are.

 

[HeroMystic]

They're definitely useful. My comment is more just to say they're extremely annoying and make me want to punch a doll.

 

[MarioMeteor]

They're definitely useful. My comment is more just to say they're extremely annoying and make me want to punch a doll.

I know, aren't they amazing?

 

[Artmastercorey]

Hello Mario mains. I have a question. What are mario's weakness's? I mainly play as projectile based characters, and find mario to be a nightmare up close because he seems to be able to spam attacks nonstop, almost as bad as yoshi. For example if he misses a move, and I go in to punish he has time to do another attack before I can. He has little lag it seems, he's a great character. Again I play zone characters mainly, but I'm having trouble against the expert marios ability to constantly attack/defend one attack after the other before I can punish him.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Mario struggles rather badly in the range department. Not only is his own range rather poor, but he has trouble dealing with fighters who outrange him. It also sounds like you're rather hasty with your punishes if he can defend all of them.

 

[Artmastercorey]

Mario struggles rather badly in the range department. Not only is his own range rather poor, but he has trouble dealing with fighters who outrange him. It also sounds like you're rather hasty with your punishes if he can defend all of them.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah im not sure when to punish mario when up close he seems to recover so fast when hit/ or if he misses as I was saying. His fire balls are such great spacing tools as well that it sorta forces me to come in. Whens a good time to punish him?

 

[MarioMeteor]

Thanks for the reply. Yeah im not sure when to punish mario when up close he seems to recover so fast when hit/ or if he misses as I was saying. His fire balls are such great spacing tools as well that it sorta forces me to come in. Whens a good time to punish him?

First off, don't punish him for any smash attacks, with the exception of forward smash. You can also punish him for a bad landing or a missed sweetspot. Another thing, don't be too wild with your attacks. Mario has some very great out of shield options. It's also kind of pointless, because if he feels pressured, a good Mario will just push you back with F.L.U.D.D.

 

[Artmastercorey]

First off, don't punish him for any smash attacks, with the exception of forward smash. You can also punish him for a bad landing or a missed sweetspot. Another thing, don't be too wild with your attacks. Mario has some very great out of shield options. It's also kind of pointless, because if he feels pressured, a good Mario will just push you back with F.L.U.D.D.

Yeah the biggest thing I try to do is punish him when landing but im not sure which of his attacks actually give him landing lag. it seems like most of his aerials auto cancel if im not mistaken.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Actually, none of them do, they just have stupidly minuscule landing lag. Down air is special because if he lands prematurely before the move ends, a hitbox still comes out. Forward air is the only aerial of his with any real landing lag, but no one is going to actually use that move onstage.

 

[Steam]

What characters are you guys most afraid of? I'm currently looking for a character to pick up specifically to counter mario since my region has several up and coming mario players and he counters both of my mains rather hard.

 

[Xeze]

For me it's probably Rosalina.

 

[HeroMystic]

A combination of Pikachu and Rosalina will often do the trick. Most mid-tier Mario players can't handle Rosalina at all, and strong Pikachu play is actually pretty scary.

In a customs environment I'm only scared of Pikachu.
I'm also sensing a trend where most of the help questions we get are from the players that want to beat us.

 

[BSP]

I haven't been in the Mario loop lately. Did Sheik get better? I remember her being pretty bad too.

 

[HeroMystic]

General consensus outside of Smashboards is Mario vs Sheik is an even MU.

 

[A2ZOMG]

What characters are you guys most afraid of? I'm currently looking for a character to pick up specifically to counter mario since my region has several up and coming mario players and he counters both of my mains rather hard.

I just play Ganon against Mario, as I can just disrespect Mario in neutral with massive semi-disjointed hitboxes that do like twice as much damage as he does and can actually successfully trade with Mario's Up-B offstage consistently. From personal experience though, I believe the Pits are very difficult for Mario. Actually just in general, most of the sword characters are still hard for Mario, including Metaknight, Marth, and Lucina (especially post patch). Vs Ike evens out mostly because Mario has really long juggles on him, but otherwise is still something of a chore to play. Vs G&W still is hard except he's so light that B-throw kills screw him over which results in a probably evenish matchup. Mario beats Shulk though as he suffers from the same weaknesses as Ike, but his reward is overall much lower than most of the other sword characters mentioned without situational Monado shenanigans. Also Toon Link loses to Mario because he's just really underpowered and both sucks at edgeguarding and pressuring shields, while Link in contrast probably beats Mario with his better spacing tools, Mario's lack of really good high priority midrange options to scare Link, and the fact Link also happens to be good at edgeguarding Mario's Up-B.

Also Rosalina beats Mario pretty solidly even factoring Mario killing Luma with B-throw here and there, though her trolling most characters that aren't explicitly top tier is something to be expected.

Mario's matchups against Diddy, Sheik, and Sonic though are pretty decent now that they don't overwhelm him with fraudulent KO power and thus have to deal with Mario hitting Rage consistently which does make him one of the scariest characters in the game when both his low% combo game and random KO potential off fast hits are buffed by Rage. Characters that do better against Mario not only outspace him, but usually can kill or gimp him before he takes advantage of Rage.

 

[HeroMystic]

I'd be more than willing to say we lose vs Rosalina if the high/top Mario players weren't saying otherwise.

 

[MarioMeteor]

What characters are you guys most afraid of? I'm currently looking for a character to pick up specifically to counter mario since my region has several up and coming mario players and he counters both of my mains rather hard.

Contrary to most people, it's not Rosalina I fear, but Yoshi. But if you're talking purely objective, Sheik is, without a doubt, Mario's worst matchup.

 

[Steam]

I'm also sensing a trend where most of the help questions we get are from the players that want to beat us.

Fighting him as lucario is a nightmare. Mario is faster, has more range/better hitboxes, and shuts down our projectile game. Mario's upsmash feels fraudulent as hell and singlehandedly forces lucario to never jump at neutral, and is safe on shield if he hits with the front hitbox. As bowser it isn't so bad because he can actually meaty through some of mario's stuff but there's the problem of getting juggled 5ever. I might try lucina in the matchup, though mario's upsmash might body her too.

I dunno I feel like mario is a sleeping giant in this game, my region's top player actually feels mario is the best character in the game :x

 

[Wafflemastah]

Any help on dealing with yoshi's? Every time i match up against a yoshi i keep getting pressured out, and my combos can never work due to yoshi's high priority and 3 frame attacks. Is it truly a matchup or am i just having a personal matchup problem?

 

[MarioMeteor]

I'm also sensing a trend where most of the help questions we get are from the players that want to beat us.

Only a further testament to just how scary Mario can really be. Remember when nobody paid us any mind? It's all coming back to bite them now.

I might try lucina in the matchup, though mario's upsmash might body her too.

I dunno I feel like mario is a sleeping giant in this game, my region's top player actually feels mario is the best character in the game :x

I wouldn't. Lucina really isn't a big problem for Mario. Also, you're top player thinks Mario is the best? I have to question his knowledge of the game. Just how good are your Marios exactly? If people are making bold statements like that, they must be some pretty damn terrifying players.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Any help on dealing with yoshi's? Every time i match up against a yoshi i keep getting pressured out, and my combos can never work due to yoshi's high priority and 3 frame attacks. Is it truly a matchup or am i just having a personal matchup problem?

Just space B-airs constantly really. Don't go for long combos. Focus on outspacing him, and remember his shieldgrab is really slow and easily interrupted. Yoshi by design is one of Mario's easier matchups as long as you don't take unnecessary damage given Yoshi's spacing options are overall fairly weak.

Fighting him as lucario is a nightmare. Mario is faster, has more range/better hitboxes, and shuts down our projectile game. Mario's upsmash feels fraudulent as hell and singlehandedly forces lucario to never jump at neutral, and is safe on shield if he hits with the front hitbox. As bowser it isn't so bad because he can actually meaty through some of mario's stuff but there's the problem of getting juggled 5ever. I might try lucina in the matchup, though mario's upsmash might body her too.

I dunno I feel like mario is a sleeping giant in this game, my region's top player actually feels mario is the best character in the game :x

Mario's juggles can deal good damage, but one thing Mario can't really do is kill you in the air or offstage without huge amounts of Rage. Lucina and Marth have Counter to force Mario to play more conservatively in juggle situations and also can Up-B Mario out of his D-air, and also have the benefit of disjointed edgeguards to kill Mario.

Really, Mario's weaknesses haven't changed from Brawl for the most part. He sucks against crouching and short characters, has to guess his way around disjoints or long range in general, has a predictable recovery that can be consistently gimped on trades, and his combos are heavily character and percent dependent. Countering Mario isn't hard as long as you refuse to land next to him and force ledge resets against him instead whenever he puts you in the air. Abuse the fact Mario almost always has to kill you either with Smashes or B-throw and he generally becomes fairly simple to play against.

 

[MarioMeteor]

What is Mario's matchup against Jigglypuff? Random thought I had, since Jigglypuff is the only one of my mains who I have no matchup knowledge of.

 

[A2ZOMG]

What is Mario's matchup against Jigglypuff? Random thought I had, since Jigglypuff is the only one of my mains who I have no matchup knowledge of.

I think it's even or 55/45 Mario. You actually have to play really carefully against her ground game given she's kinda short and able to duck under a lot of things, and landing U-smash KOs on her is not always that easy due to her air mobility. Mario's faster frame data lets him do well in air footsies though, which may potentially give him the advantage due to his combo game allowing faster damage racking. Her N-air and D-air edgeguards are worth mentioning too, though Jiggs like Mario mostly struggles to kill without Smashes/Rest.

 

[HeroMystic]

I wouldn't. Lucina really isn't a big problem for Mario. Also, you're top player thinks Mario is the best? I have to question his knowledge of the game. Just how good are your Marios exactly? If people are making bold statements like that, they must be some pretty damn terrifying players.

SoCal believes Mario is Top 5 in this game, and the high/top players all have pocket Marios.

What is Mario's matchup against Jigglypuff? Random thought I had, since Jigglypuff is the only one of my mains who I have no matchup knowledge of.

I find her to be really easy to be honest. U-Smash and B-air are just really hard for Jiggs to get around, and we outmaneuver her on the ground despite her having a pretty good dash attack. Her weight makes her extremely easy to KO and fireballs slow her down enough to keep her honest. This is also an MU where trading is really, really acceptable. You just have to watch out for Rest reads.

 

[MarioMeteor]

and the high/top players all have pocket Marios.

I won't lie, that's pretty ****ing scary.

I find her to be really easy to be honest. U-Smash and B-air are just really hard for Jiggs to get around, and we outmaneuver her on the ground despite her having a pretty good dash attack. Her weight makes her extremely easy to KO and fireballs slow her down enough to keep her honest. This is also an MU where trading is really, really acceptable. You just have to watch out for Rest reads.

Interesting. I think it'd be a little easier for Puff, but whatever.

 

[HeroMystic]

The Puff players I go against probably don't camp hard enough.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The Puff players I go against probably don't camp hard enough.

I personally hate it when this happens because it's really a pain in the butt to chase a Jiggs that refuses to approach and just runs away if they have a lead. The best response to this is often FLUDD to force them to use resources to come back to the stage and then from there trying to intercept their landing or attempts to reach the ledge.

Neutral against Jiggs is easy to play if they only stay in the air, where if you have a full shield to tank Pound, you rarely should be getting hit if you don't overcommit. I mostly find it annoying when they actually wait on the ground and primarily use aerials for punishes, and air mobility defensively. While this applies generally speaking given she has both a good grab and DA, Mario in particular doesn't really outspace anyone on the ground except maybe WFT.

 

[MarioMeteor]

The Puff players I go against probably don't camp hard enough.

A good Jigglypuff is a defensive Jigglypuff. It's not exactly a good idea to charge right in when you're the lightest character in the game.

 

[KenMeister]

So out of curiousity, when I need to go aggro against certain characters, like Lucario for example, what are my best approach options, mix-ups, and pressure tools?

 

[HeroMystic]

Very broad question. I'll answer it with a video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2LBkLbe4rA

This is Anti's Mario up against Nairo. He gives a pretty good idea on how to approach as Mario. Notice how he doesn't commit unless he has a pretty good idea he has a read.

The key is his movement, and proper utilization of baiting. Running, shielding, short hops, fast falling, and utilization of N-air, dash grabs, and D-air are key.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Remember how bad Mario's dash grab was?

 

[HeroMystic]

His grab in Brawl reminded me of a seal smacking his fins together.

 

[Zero Meddler]

Contrary to most people, it's not Rosalina I fear, but Yoshi. But if you're talking purely objective, Sheik is, without a doubt, Mario's worst matchup.

Oh god. Yoshi.. his attacks seem to come out so unnaturally fast, that or the combs in the green Dino are just outstanding. I get my plumber hind wrecked every single time I face a Yoshi. (Then again I get recked by 90% people on FG so I guess that doesn't say much. =/) Regardless, I feel your pain.

Anyway, I suffer from aproaching and just being hasty. I can pick up on habits but properly punishing or reading, ha, forget it. F-Smashing seems to be useful but I just can hardly get it without whiffing or having it blocked/dodged. Also, approaching seems to be a problem. I usually go in, jump, Nair, fast fall,D-tilt then up-tilt or f-tilt. Thing is (at least jumping and using Nair) that's all I really know how to approach. Fireball isn't a useful tool to approach since I can't follow it so... meh. So... any advice?