Q&A How to Jump - Mario "Help Me" Q&A Thread

[MarioMeteor]

Oh god. Yoshi.. his attacks seem to come out so unnaturally fast

You wanna know what the funny thing is? None of his attacks are faster than Frame 3. We have better frame data than he does, his attacks just have stupidly low ending lag.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm a mostly defensive player and I find Yoshi pretty simple to play against if kinda annoying. Yoshi is generally speaking really bad at actually spacing people out, and most of his game revolves around his ridiculously high damage punishes. Mostly he'll probably do like 40% whenever he touches you, but you almost never have to actually get hit by him if you don't want to given he doesn't really have anything that beats your B-air aside from a U-smash hard read.

I would say Mario goes about evenish with Yoshi. We won this matchup in previous games because the damage difference was much lower, but Mario still beat Yoshi in neutral. Customs on we win it again because we get even more consistent tools for winning neutral against him while Yoshi gets virtually nothing from customs for the most part.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Custom Mario is absolutely disgusting. He literally has a set for every situation.

 

[KenMeister]

I'm a mostly defensive player and I find Yoshi pretty simple to play against if kinda annoying. Yoshi is generally speaking really bad at actually spacing people out, and most of his game revolves around his ridiculously high damage punishes. Mostly he'll probably do like 40% whenever he touches you, but you almost never have to actually get hit by him if you don't want to given he doesn't really have anything that beats your B-air aside from a U-smash hard read.

I would say Mario goes about evenish with Yoshi. We won this matchup in previous games because the damage difference was much lower, but Mario still beat Yoshi in neutral. Customs on we win it again because we get even more consistent tools for winning neutral against him while Yoshi gets virtually nothing from customs for the most part.

What about his own Bair? I thought it was disjointed?

 

[A2ZOMG]

What about his own Bair? I thought it was disjointed?

Yoshi isn't very disjointed on anything except his F-air which does have partial body intangibility if I recall. Given his F-air is pretty slow, you don't have to worry a lot about it if you're never making really huge commitments in neutral.

Also even though Yoshi's B-air has decent range, the individual hits only do like 2 damage. So you want to directly contest it, given a raw trade is significantly in your favor (it usually loses to Mario's B-air directly though).

 

[XianCano96]

Hi, I'm new to smashboards and I main mario. Ive been told im very good and id like to think im decent. (Of course others might disagree) anyway. i need some help. after playing way to much for glory i realized my hardest match up is Game and Watch. IDK if thats scrubby or not but i always have a hard time. When i win those its mostly due to a lucky foward smash. His weight makes combos hard. His ariels make his landing hard to punish and approaching him is difficult since im afraid of using fireballs due to his bucket. When i play defence he always manages to slip in with dash attacks, tilts and grabs. Its hard to read him. At least for me. Thanx for the help

 

[Pixel_]

How often should I use the FLUDD?
I usually just charge it in case there'll be a good time to use it, but should I use it more often than that?

 

[MarioMeteor]

How often should I use the FLUDD?
I usually just charge it in case there'll be a good time to use it, but should I use it more often than that?

FLUDD is a very important tool in Mario's arsenal because it can be used to regain stage control or put yourself in a better position. By that I mean if you are feeling pressured or backed into a corner, you should use FLUDD to force the opponent back and give yourself some space. Along with the obvious application of messing with recoveries, I can also be used to push the opponent off the ledge.

 

[SilverhandX]

I find playing against Mario one of the most difficult matchups for me in the game, and figured this would be a good place to ask for advice. First off, I mainly play Captain Falcon and Fox, and most of my experience against Mario is with customs on. Mario's down throw into up-tilt combo is infuriating, and it makes getting grabbed at low percents a free 30%+ damage for Mario. I know the obvious solution to that is to avoid getting grabbed, but the Marios I have played against always play super defensively and spam fireballs when I'm low on life, forcing me to approach, then just shield/spot dodge my attacks and go for a grab. Another major problem for me is the wind cape. It can still reflect projectiles just like the normal cape, but it's also an infuriating way of edgeguarding. It's hard enough to avoid with the characters I play when Mario is just standing at the edge using it, but when Mario goes offstage with it I really don't know how to recover against it at all. It also lets him safely recover because if I go after him offstage he can just use the cape to turn around any aerials. Another problem for me, specifically in the Captain Falcon vs Mario matchup is Mario's dash attack. It's really annoying and it beats out most of Falcon's ground approaches, which really limits his options. I really struggle with this matchup in general, especially with customs, and would appreciate any advice on the matter.

 

[MatchuPichu]

I went to my first local tourney and fought some players. Bested them with a decent amount of effort until we started playing with customs. I fought a kid named Riot with his custom DK. I got bodied. How do I beat custom DK with Mario...?

 

[MarioMeteor]

You don't. Unless you find the proper rhythm to air dodging the Kong Cyclone, which I haven't found.

 

[HeroMystic]

@ SilverhandX

Merged your thread with this. Keeping the "Mario is too awesome" threads at a minimum.

 

[MatchuPichu]

You don't. Unless you find the proper rhythm to air dodging the Kong Cyclone, which I haven't found.

Okay, so what should I do?

 

[MarioMeteor]

Okay, so what should I do?

First of all, what customs did he use?

 

[Drippy]

Decided to pick up Mario today since I need a secondary for Mega Man that can help me with my harder match-ups, and also I want a easy secondary that I can pick up quick and overall just getting used to more close-combat characters I suppose. I'm still fairly new to Mario so I don't have much questions but it'd help me a lot on understanding the character better. It's a pretty long list and it could be expanding in the future as I've only gotten around to watching one of Ally's Mario matches.

• Other great Mario players beside Ally?
• I know down-throw -> up tilt isn't a true combo on all characters but I find a lot of characters are able to either jump out of it or n-air out of it after only the first up tilt hits. Is there a list of characters where this works (along with the dthrow -> 2x u tilt -> grab -> repeat)? Am I just doing it wrong perhaps?
• When is up throw -> d-air a better option then d-throw -> up tilt string?
• When should I use more of his combos? I know of down-throw -> u-air > n-air and various others from the combo thread in this forum but I'm not sure of percentage and what characters it works on. Well is there a list of any of this to start with?
• How do you guys use FLUDD? I'm told it's a really useful Mario tool and it's not that I disagree but I don't exactly use it that great. (Never mind found the answer to it)

 

[MarioMeteor]

• Other great Mario players beside Ally?
• I know down-throw -> up tilt isn't a true combo on all characters but I find a lot of characters are able to either jump out of it or n-air out of it after only the first up tilt hits. Is there a list of characters where this works (along with the dthrow -> 2x u tilt -> grab -> repeat)? Am I just doing it wrong perhaps?
• When is up throw -> d-air a better option then d-throw -> up tilt string?
• When should I use more of his combos? I know of down-throw -> u-air > n-air and various others from the combo thread in this forum but I'm not sure of percentage and what characters it works on. Well is there a list of any of this to start with?
• How do you guys use FLUDD? I'm told it's a really useful Mario tool and it's not that I disagree but I don't exactly use it that great. (Never mind found the answer to it)

1. Boss. He plays Mario and Luigi, and is currently the best Luigi out there, probably.
2. It depends a few factors. Weight and fall speed, meaning Falcon is nearly helpless against it while Jigglypuff is pretty much immune to it, DI, obviously you want to DI out and away from Mario, and in some cases, the frame of their aerials. I can't give you a list myself, but I can give you a frame chart.
http://pastebin.com/NJ4Q5PzU
3. Up throw is almost always a better option over down throw at lower percents. Up throw doesn't just combo into Tornado, it can combo into up air strings, back air, and even Super Jump Punch sometimes. I'd recommend using it on a heavyweight like Bowser, because doing down throw combos on heavyweights will only get you punished.
4. To tell you the truth, you might just have to play around with it and find out. Mario can be very creative with his combos. Get a feel for them.

 

[HeroMystic]

• Other great Mario players beside Ally?

Top 5 Marios

1. Ally (Not a good Mario to learn from however)
2. XeroXen (Best Mario to learn from)
3. Mastazenyoux
4. Smasher1001
5. Mbohne

If Anti ever gets back into Smash 4, he'd be the best Mario period.

 

[Drippy]

1. Boss. He plays Mario and Luigi, and is currently the best Luigi out there, probably.
2. It depends a few factors. Weight and fall speed, meaning Falcon is nearly helpless against it while Jigglypuff is pretty much immune to it, DI, obviously you want to DI out and away from Mario, and in some cases, the frame of their aerials. I can't give you a list myself, but I can give you a frame chart.
http://pastebin.com/NJ4Q5PzU
3. Up throw is almost always a better option over down throw at lower percents. Up throw doesn't just combo into Tornado, it can combo into up air strings, back air, and even Super Jump Punch sometimes. I'd recommend using it on a heavyweight like Bowser, because doing down throw combos on heavyweights will only get you punished.
4. To tell you the truth, you might just have to play around with it and find out. Mario can be very creative with his combos. Get a feel for them.

1. Oh awesome I didn't know Boss was a Mario player too, definitely going to have to check him out.
2. Yeah that's what I assumed, I guess it's something I'll just need to test out. Also just wanted to add this onto the fourth point you made but why would the down throw combo be bad on heavies? I thought heavies were characters must susceptible to being combo and juggled. Oh and I appreciate the frame chart but I don't understand the numbers like:
captain| 3| 7| 9|17|11|19|22|19| 7|14|10| 6|16| 7| 9|12|53|58|68| | | |14|16|32|17|22|26|
3. Hmm that's interesting to know, I definitely to try using it more than since I often find myself just using down-throw.

Top 5 Marios

1. Ally (Not a good Mario to learn from however)
2. XeroXen (Best Mario to learn from)
3. Mastazenyoux
4. Smasher1001
5. Mbohne

If Anti ever gets back into Smash 4, he'd be the best Mario period.

Thanks for the list! Just a question, you place Ally as the best but how come you don't think he's good to learn from?

 

[HeroMystic]

Thanks for the list! Just a question, you place Ally as the best but how come you don't think he's good to learn from?

Amongst friends, we have a saying, "Ally just does Ally things". He plays the game in a way you can't really replicate because he relies on his superior reaction time (like spamming U-Smash 4+ times in a row). If you watch Ally side-by-side with XeroXen you can see stark differences. XeroXen has a top-notch neutral game and implements a lot of general and Mario tech in his play. Ally has little to none of this but he's still the best due to his solid fundamentals and natural talent.

 

[Drippy]

Amongst friends, we have a saying, "Ally just does Ally things". He plays the game in a way you can't really replicate because he relies on his superior reaction time (like spamming U-Smash 4+ times in a row). If you watch Ally side-by-side with XeroXen you can see stark differences. XeroXen has a top-notch neutral game and implements a lot of general and Mario tech in his play. Ally has little to none of this but he's still the best due to his solid fundamentals and natural talent.

That's really interesting actually, and it's kind of funny because I've talked with a member of the Leap of Faith crew who said that one of the crew members is a really good player but also does a lot of really unexpected and stupid stuff that will usually land because you don't expect a high level player to do that. Certainly a really interesting play-style haha, on the other hand I'll definitely check out XeroXen then, thanks a lot for the help!

 

[MarioMeteor]

2. Yeah that's what I assumed, I guess it's something I'll just need to test out. Also just wanted to add this onto the fourth point you made but why would the down throw combo be bad on heavies? I thought heavies were characters must susceptible to being combo and juggled. Oh and I appreciate the frame chart but I don't understand the numbers like:
captain| 3| 7| 9|17|11|19|22|19| 7|14|10| 6|16| 7| 9|12|53|58|68| | | |14|16|32|17|22|26|
3. Hmm that's interesting to know, I definitely to try using it more than since I often find myself just using down-throw.

Your first question, down throw to up tilt isn't safe on heavyweights because both attacks have very low base knockback. That, combined with the large weight of the character, means they won't even be lifted off the ground, giving them time to shield and/or retaliate. As for the frame chart, the number represents what frame the move on the corresponding column comes out on. For example, if you look at Mario, you should see "|2|" next to his name. A quick look or scroll up will show that that number falls under the word "jab." That means Mario's jab comes out on frame 2. It's like that for every move and every character.

 

[Drippy]

Your first question, down throw to up tilt isn't safe on heavyweights because both attacks have very low base knockback. That, combined with the large weight of the character, means they won't even be lifted off the ground, giving them time to shield and/or retaliate. As for the frame chart, the number represents what frame the move on the corresponding column comes out on. For example, if you look at Mario, you should see "|2|" next to his name. A quick look or scroll up will show that that number falls under the word "jab." That means Mario's jab comes out on frame 2. It's like that for every move and every character.

Yea I was actually testing it in practice mode against characters and I have a small list of characters the combo works on and I went to test Ganon against Ganon on a level 9 bot and I noticed it was always able to shield it and I had to adjust the percent and I think it was like starting at 12% was when the combo started to work. Not sure how legit bots are though as practice including some of them that do work, the bot obviously wouldn't use n-air like it works on Mario / Luigi at 0% but their n-air breaks out of it IIRC.

Also thanks a lot, I'm going to check it out. I have a lot of free time at school like when I'm on the bus so I'm probably going to do some studying during my free time at school and I wonder how much memorizing frame data will help me.

Amongst friends, we have a saying, "Ally just does Ally things". He plays the game in a way you can't really replicate because he relies on his superior reaction time (like spamming U-Smash 4+ times in a row). If you watch Ally side-by-side with XeroXen you can see stark differences. XeroXen has a top-notch neutral game and implements a lot of general and Mario tech in his play. Ally has little to none of this but he's still the best due to his solid fundamentals and natural talent.

Do you have any vids of XeroXen? Google or Youtube yields no results for me.

 

[DeliciousDarren]

Do you have any vids of XeroXen? Google or Youtube yields no results for me.

If you are interested in doing a bit of research, here is the Youtube result page for XeroXen. When I have enough free time, I'll look into some of them and find out where he did the best. Also, the video critique thread has a few videos of XeroXen on the page.

 

[Drippy]

If you are interested in doing a bit of research, here is the Youtube result page for XeroXen. When I have enough free time, I'll look into some of them and find out where he did the best. Also, the video critique thread has a few videos of XeroXen on the page.

Oh wowzers thanks a lot, I guess Super Smash Bros Wii U XeroXen was the wrong thing to search up. Also I didn't check all the vids but it seems like most of the VODs linked in that thread are removed because they're linked from Twitch streams.

 

[HeroMystic]

Oh wowzers thanks a lot, I guess Super Smash Bros Wii U XeroXen was the wrong thing to search up. Also I didn't check all the vids but it seems like most of the VODs linked in that thread are removed because they're linked from Twitch streams.

XeroXen(Mario) vs Xorou(ZSS) [5/3/2015] [eBash 9]
XeroXen(Mario) vs SofaKing(Luigi) [WF] [5/3/2015] [eBash 9]
XeroXen(Mario) vs SofaKing(Luigi) [GF] [5/3/2015] [eBash 9]

XeroXen(Mario) vs Bo x7(Mario) [4/11/2015] [Class Is Back]
XeroXen(Mario) vs Shugo(Sonic) [4/11/2015] [Class Is Back]

 

[DeliciousDarren]

Oh wowzers thanks a lot, I guess Super Smash Bros Wii U XeroXen was the wrong thing to search up. Also I didn't check all the vids but it seems like most of the VODs linked in that thread are removed because they're linked from Twitch streams.

You are correct. It seems the videos for XeroXen need to be removed from that page and replaced.
XeroXen vs. SofaKing
XeroXen vs. Bo

The two videos above seem to be great for viewing XeroXen's particular style. From first glance, he seems to enjoy approaching with backflips and using up-B out of shield.

Edit: Never mind. Mystic is on the ball with this one lol

 

[HeroMystic]

I actually have the list of updated videos on my laptop. Just haven't updated the thread yet.

 

[Drippy]

XeroXen(Mario) vs Xorou(ZSS) [5/3/2015] [eBash 9]
XeroXen(Mario) vs SofaKing(Luigi) [WF] [5/3/2015] [eBash 9]
XeroXen(Mario) vs SofaKing(Luigi) [GF] [5/3/2015] [eBash 9]

XeroXen(Mario) vs Bo x7(Mario) [4/11/2015] [Class Is Back]
XeroXen(Mario) vs Shugo(Sonic) [4/11/2015] [Class Is Back]

You are correct. It seems the videos for XeroXen need to be removed from that page and replaced.
XeroXen vs. SofaKing
XeroXen vs. Bo

The two videos above seem to be great for viewing XeroXen's particular style. From first glance, he seems to enjoy approaching with backflips and using up-B out of shield.

Edit: Never mind. Mystic is on the ball with this one lol

Thanks a lot to the both of you guys! Definitely will get to checking them out.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Yea I was actually testing it in practice mode against characters and I have a small list of characters the combo works on and I went to test Ganon against Ganon on a level 9 bot and I noticed it was always able to shield it and I had to adjust the percent and I think it was like starting at 12% was when the combo started to work. Not sure how legit bots are though as practice including some of them that do work, the bot obviously wouldn't use n-air like it works on Mario / Luigi at 0% but their n-air breaks out of it IIRC.

Off the top of my head, the combo should most effective against Robin, Lucario, Greninja, and Shulk, as they're all around middleweight and have no combo breakers, although the latter three all have counters, and Shulk could probably Air Slash out of it.

 

[Drippy]

Off the top of my head, the combo should most effective against Robin, Lucario, Greninja, and Shulk, as they're all around middleweight and have no combo breakers, although the latter three all have counters, and Shulk could probably Air Slash out of it.

Damn can't help but feel that the down-throw to d-tilt combo is really that useful for a lot of characters, I'm going to keep testing it and see where I go with it. Probably will ask a friend to help test it out.

 

[MatchuPichu]

First of all, what customs did he use?

Storm Punch
Eruption Slap
Jumping Headbutt
Kong Cyclone

I think my problem may have been that I play a very aggressive Mario. I might have had to stuck to defensive play.

 

[Xeze]

Can regular FLUDD (or High Pressure) push DK while he is using Kong Cyclone?

 

[HeroMystic]

Can regular FLUDD (or High Pressure) push DK while he is using Kong Cyclone?

Unfortunately, no.

 

[Crissaegrim]

Any tips for facing Yoshi? Whenever I face him I feel almost powerless whenever I'm recovering, and unable to edge-guard because of the range on his fair(meteor smash). I also have trouble doing combos against him because of his godly neutral air. Any advice is appreciated!!

 

[Funkermonster]

How do you reliably get out of Mario's Utilt combos? My experiences with it are somewhat inconsistent. Sometimes I've escaped it after his 2nd or first up tlt after the dtrhow, sometimes I've gotten out of it before he even lands one at all, and other times I've been locked in it up until 35%.

 

[A2ZOMG]

How do you reliably get out of Mario's Utilt combos? My experiences with it are somewhat inconsistent. Sometimes I've escaped it after his 2nd or first up tlt after the dtrhow, sometimes I've gotten out of it before he even lands one at all, and other times I've been locked in it up until 35%.

Matchup knowledge. It depends heavily on the matchup, when Mario starts his string, and Rage. Usually you don't want to try jumping after the first U-tilt unless you're a floaty character.

 

[DeliciousDarren]

How do you reliably get out of Mario's Utilt combos? My experiences with it are somewhat inconsistent. Sometimes I've escaped it after his 2nd or first up tlt after the dtrhow, sometimes I've gotten out of it before he even lands one at all, and other times I've been locked in it up until 35%.

Depending on the character, Mario's up-tilt can be broken out of with a fast aerial. I don't believe Greninja has a fast enough aerial to get out of it, but he also gets locked into it at a higher percentage than most characters. At very low percents Mario cannot string up-tilts to combo Greninja. Once you get into the range where it is possible for Mario to do so, I would focus on walling Mario out so he cannot grab you. I believe Ally vs. VGBC shows Greninja's potential for keeping Mario at bay.

Any tips for facing Yoshi? Whenever I face him I feel almost powerless whenever I'm recovering, and unable to edge-guard because of the range on his fair(meteor smash). I also have trouble doing combos against him because of his godly neutral air. Any advice is appreciated!!

Yoshi can be a very difficult fight. From what I have heard around the boards and on videos, one of the better ways to deal with Yoshi is to keep him at a distance. Back air is one of Mario's best tools for spacing opponents so learn how to use this appropriately. The commentator for EbonicPlague vs. Wave talks about the Mario vs. Yoshi matchup so give it a listen when you have the chance. The actual match isn't top level though.

 

[Nate22Hill]

what other approaches besides grab dash attack and falling neutral air is their with mario. Also how do you play the neutral with mario

 

[MarioMeteor]

what other approaches besides grab dash attack and falling neutral air is their with mario. Also how do you play the neutral with mario

SH Fireballs, Cape, Back air, falling up air, tomahawk grab. For Mario, your neutral is going consist heavily on raining Fireballs down on your opponent.

 

[BSP]

SH Fireballs, Cape, Back air, falling up air, tomahawk pump fake grab. For Mario, your neutral is going consist heavily on raining Fireballs down on your opponent.

Fixed. Enough of this tomahawk nonsense.

Mario Utilt combos are very specific. You need to play a lot and remember at what %'s they work against people. I know if you try to do it vs Bowser at too low of a %, he can jump out.