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Q&A How to Jump - Mario "Help Me" Q&A Thread

HeroMystic

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The Mario Question & Answer Thread



This thread is used for...
  • General Mario Questions (i.e. Is Mario's D-tilt good? (FYI, yes it is))​
  • Questions on how to fight specific match-ups.​
  • "How do I..?"​
This thread is not used for...

  • Social Discussion: Use this thread.​
  • Discussing MU Ratios: Belongs in this thread.​
  • "Did you know about this tech!?": Search the sub-forum first, then make a new thread if you feel it's warranted.​

Any frequently asked questions will be added to the OP to minimize repeated questions. Anyone is able to answer any questions, but please make sure it is accurate and informative.​
 
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blue akirayami

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Hey, I'm having the WORST time fighting lucario. I can get his damage up ( sometimes way past mine) but the guy I play against is really defensive and grabs alots. So I'm often pursuing him while he just rolls away. And charges aura sphere. When his aura gets high I seem to always get hit and die really early. Any tips on how to optimize my game.
 

Darrman

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Hey, I'm having the WORST time fighting lucario. I can get his damage up ( sometimes way past mine) but the guy I play against is really defensive and grabs alots. So I'm often pursuing him while he just rolls away. And charges aura sphere. When his aura gets high I seem to always get hit and die really early. Any tips on how to optimize my game.
Same here, same here. I like to try caping Aura Spheres at high percents and send them right back to Lucario, but good players would just dodge it. I suppose it's good for pressure, and can seal a stock if you catch them off guard.
 

Xeze

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Spotdodge is your friend against a opponent that grabs a lot. Time it correctly and punish back. Don't overuse the cape trying to reflect aura sphere. Dodge it or perfect shield it most of the time so your opponent gets used to that pattern and then cape it when he least expects it.

Lately I've been taking a beating against good Falco players. Any tips for dealing with this MU?
 

HeroMystic

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but the guy I play against is really defensive and grabs alots.
General rule of thumb against this type of tactic is to stop trying to chase him around. You have the percent lead. It's on him to get something done. You can literally sit back on the other side of the stage and shield every aura sphere and you'll win by timeout. A good player knows this, and this is why you'll barely see high level players suddenly sit back and camp when they're behind, because they don't have the advantage for doing so.

As for grabs, you can beat out every dash grab in this game with Mario's auto-jab, and you can fireball.

Alternatively, if you want to get in, you can always FLUDD them off the stage and force them in an aerial position. You can force them to hang from the ledge where Lucario doesn't want to be, since it's extremely easy for Mario to get a kill that way.
 

JuanP_91

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Hey, so, I have two main issues with Mario: approaches, and edgeguarding options.

Against good players, sometimes I can't seem to get close up, and my approaches always end up being punished. RAR, Dash Attack and Nair always get shielded, and when I try to grab them, they roll out of it. I've now been thinking about using Reverse UpSmash (idk its official name, if it has one), but still, I'd like to know about any other options.

When edgeguarding, I normally go with Nair or Bair together with some random Fairs, or try gimping them, but when they recover low, I run out of good counters that won't put me at a disadvantage and are likely to hit my opponent. Would Dair be a good option?

Any help is appreciated!
 

HeroMystic

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Hey, so, I have two main issues with Mario: approaches, and edgeguarding options.

Against good players, sometimes I can't seem to get close up, and my approaches always end up being punished. RAR, Dash Attack and Nair always get shielded, and when I try to grab them, they roll out of it. I've now been thinking about using Reverse UpSmash (idk its official name, if it has one), but still, I'd like to know about any other options.

When edgeguarding, I normally go with Nair or Bair together with some random Fairs, or try gimping them, but when they recover low, I run out of good counters that won't put me at a disadvantage and are likely to hit my opponent. Would Dair be a good option?

Any help is appreciated!
About Approaching: This is one of these things that makes me want to make a thread about Mario's movement, because ultimately, this game is about footsies. You have to know what beats what and what you can do at a given time. To answer your question, your problem is similar to what many rising Mario players have an issue with, and it's simply that you have to respect the neutral game.

If you're going in swinging, it's fairly obvious you'll get punished for it. You have to be comfortable with not forcing an approach, because it's telegraphed. You want to pressure your opponent with your presence, and force them to react. Condition them to react a certain way and then open up an opportunity to get your damage in.

This is difficult to explain in words, so it's better to link a video instead. Start at 21:05, and watch how Ally plays the neutral state. During this stage, he is extremely patient. He's fine with sitting back, tossing fireballs, using FLUDD, and keeping the game in neutral, because NAKAT is waiting for Ally to make a mistake so he can punish. It's not until 21:43 that Ally actually gets in and starts dealing damage to Ness, but for nearly the entire time he hasn't taken damage (except for that initial 23%), and he makes up for it very easily.

About Edgeguarding Low Recoveries: This is one of Mario's pitfalls as he doesn't have a stellar time taking out low recoveries. D-air works for damage, but not for gimping, and depending on the recovery this could put you in a bad spot (Sheik in particular is pretty difficult to edgeguard without screwing yourself over). However, it's not impossible to get gimps like this. You can do a falling N-air, B-air stage spike, or FLUDD your opponent under the stage. Generally though you want to force your opponent to not recover low. The absolute safest option is to just go for ledge trumps and get a guaranteed B-air.

Hope this answers your questions.

@ Xeze Xeze Can you go into detail with your troubles against Falco?
 
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JuanP_91

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About Approaching: This is one of these things that makes me want to make a thread about Mario's movement, because ultimately, this game is about footsies. You have to know what beats what and what you can do at a given time. To answer your question, your problem is similar to what many rising Mario players have an issue with, and it's simply that you have to respect the neutral game.

If you're going in swinging, it's fairly obvious you'll get punished for it. You have to be comfortable with not forcing an approach, because it's telegraphed. You want to pressure your opponent with your presence, and force them to react. Condition them to react a certain way and then open up an opportunity to get your damage in.

About Edgeguarding Low Recoveries: This is one of Mario's pitfalls as he doesn't have a stellar time taking out low recoveries. D-air works for damage, but not for gimping, and depending on the recovery this could put you in a bad spot (Sheik in particular is pretty difficult to edgeguard without screwing yourself over). However, it's not impossible to get gimps like this. You can do a falling N-air, B-air stage spike, or FLUDD your opponent under the stage. Generally though you want to force your opponent to not recover low. The absolute safest option is to just go for ledge trumps and get a guaranteed B-air.

Hope this answers your questions.
Got it! I'm usually not too hasty with approaching, but at times I do get carried away and leave myself open. This was really useful, I reckon a thread about Mario's movement would help many players in general to get better.

And well, about edgeguarding, I guess I'll just stick to Nair and Dair for damage instead of going for the kill.

Thanks a lot, again, really useful
 

blue akirayami

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General rule of thumb against this type of tactic is to stop trying to chase him around. You have the percent lead. It's on him to get something done. You can literally sit back on the other side of the stage and shield every aura sphere and you'll win by timeout. A good player knows this, and this is why you'll barely see high level players suddenly sit back and camp when they're behind, because they don't have the advantage for doing so.

As for grabs, you can beat out every dash grab in this game with Mario's auto-jab, and you can fireball.

Alternatively, if you want to get in, you can always FLUDD them off the stage and force them in an aerial position. You can force them to hang from the ledge where Lucario doesn't want to be, since it's extremely easy for Mario to get a kill that way.
Thanks!!! So i used what you said and was able to two stock him twice ( 3stock game). My main thing I changed was the not chasing around part. I would throw out a fireball and walk closer just waiting for a opportunity. After awhile ( and some really clutch capes) he was totally out of his comfort zone. He was being aggressive. And it's really easy as Mario to capitalize on that. I was thinking that could probably work on everyone?
 

HeroMystic

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Thanks!!! So i used what you said and was able to two stock him twice ( 3stock game). My main thing I changed was the not chasing around part. I would throw out a fireball and walk closer just waiting for a opportunity. After awhile ( and some really clutch capes) he was totally out of his comfort zone. He was being aggressive. And it's really easy as Mario to capitalize on that. I was thinking that could probably work on everyone?
Yes, it's part of the core fundamentals of any fighting game. If you have the lead, you do not need to approach (and put yourself at risk). I'd say the only character you'd have difficulty not approaching is Sheik.

As for your fireball and edge in closer. This is viable, but be careful with it. An opponent can powershield it and get the drop on you while you're recovering from the fireball's lag, so be sure to keep enough distance.
 
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DavidxRussell

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Same here, same here. I like to try caping Aura Spheres at high percents and send them right back to Lucario, but good players would just dodge it. I suppose it's good for pressure, and can seal a stock if you catch them off guard.
Just get him with a side dash, then go into an up air combo.
 

JuanP_91

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Just get him with a side dash, then go into an up air combo.
Thats not a true combo at any percent I think, and much less at high ones. The dash would just send Lucario or any opponent out of range for any of your jumps to reach him. Besides, if you do reach him, he'd have reacted long time ago
At high percents, I normally go for
Dtilt to Fair (120-135 more or less)
or SHFF Uair to Fair (90), or just don't go for combos at all, but anyway, I'm getting off topic.
 

BoomToast

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Anyone have any tips for the Rosalina matchup? It's the only MU I think I truly struggle with, mainly because I have a hard time approaching her, or getting any grabs in because of the Luma.
 

A2ZOMG

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Really that sums up the matchup. It's annoying as hell and all you can really do is just wait for her to make a mistake that leaves her open enough for you to sneak in with D-air or B-throw. From there it's on you to juggle and edgeguard her to the best of your ability.

You can also do fullhop aerials to space vs her given she's really tall, but mostly if she's any good, you're in for a rough time given she has some of the best spacing normals in the game.
 

Xeze

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@ HeroMystic HeroMystic I can rack up damage on Falco pretty well but when I try to get in to secure the kill, he always seems to keep me at bay with his tilts and DA. Then ends up punishing an approaching mistake of mine with a f-smash to take my stock. It gets very annoying.
 

HeroMystic

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Anyone have any tips for the Rosalina matchup? It's the only MU I think I truly struggle with, mainly because I have a hard time approaching her, or getting any grabs in because of the Luma.
@ A2ZOMG A2ZOMG sums it up about right. Rosalina is someone you really have play the best neutral game you've ever played in your life against. Honestly, I'm still trying to find the golden ticket for this MU (besides B-throw all day everyday), because I play this one a lot in my local scene.

Ally played this MU yesterday and lost in Winner's Bracket because he SD'd as Mario 2nd match and then his Diddy got destroyed 3rd match. Then he made a comeback in Loser's. http://www.twitch.tv/evenmatchupgaming/v/3930600?t=6h27m2s

Worth watching. One thing to note is he uses Up-B a lot, and I'm still trying to decipher why he does this.

@ HeroMystic HeroMystic I can rack up damage on Falco pretty well but when I try to get in to secure the kill, he always seems to keep me at bay with his tilts and DA. Then ends up punishing an approaching mistake of mine with a f-smash to take my stock. It gets very annoying.
This is another thing about Mario's movement. If he's spacing you out, you gotta bait a reaction and punish it. I also wouldn't worry about fishing for a kill. Things like that tend to come naturally. So if you're not sure if Mario's U-Smash won't hit for a punish, go for something lighter and continue to increase damage. B-throw if necessary.
 

JuanP_91

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@ Xeze Xeze Its the same case as the Lucario grabber (read above). If you're winning, stay back and away from danger since its up to him to turn the match. If you're losing however, I'd say keep him under pressure with FLUUD and Fireballs, and use Shield+Grab to avoid tilts and throw him to a bad position.
I'm no expert, just trying to help however I can
 

Xeze

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Thanks guys. So I have to be more patient, specially if I am winning. Will keep your suggestions in mind.
 

JuanP_91

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Well, I've spent the past few hours experimenting against Rosalina. The only two ways I saw of going through that wall are killing the keeper or going in from another side.

Normally, BThrow is the best option for killing Luma, and the "other side" strategy could be SH Air Dodge to Bair. Worked well against a CPU at least.

Customs on are a HUGE help, specifically the set 2213.

Fast Fireball racks up damage on Luma and eventually kills him, as well as being a good way to stop and possibly punish Luma Shot.

Shocking Cape takes advantage of Rosalina's juggability(or whatever xD) to cause some damage to her and Luma. You won't be needing reflectors.

Super Jump Punch for combos.

And finally, Scadling FLUUD. It makes you a temporary flamethrower, and since you gotta get close to use it, a Gravitational Pull can be punished. It also buffs your air speed while in use, and is a great way to stop Rosalina, or make her move however you like. I also tried with the other FLUUDs, but they have no effect on Luma, which will probably be up front.

This would be my best shot against Rosalina, what do you all think about it?
 

FreshYarn43

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I'm a mario main and I love him to death. But when I get a zoning opponent like villager or samus, I can never seem to win. The cape works ok, but it's hard to time. Any and all help is welcome. Thanks in advance.
 

JuanP_91

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Well, it isn't too hard actually. You'll usually want to use Cape to reflect or gimp, but not much to approach. Against a tilting opponent, dash into shield, and keep pressure with Fireballs and FLUUD. Still, this is dangerous against grabs like Samus'. You usually just bait out a spacing error instead of constantly trying to attack. Mix up you game to keep him guessing.
A useful move against zoners is this:
Rush into them and SH. This will bait them into an attempt to zone you, so you must dodge, get behind them, and finish with a Bair.
 

HeroMystic

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Well, I've spent the past few hours experimenting against Rosalina. The only two ways I saw of going through that wall are killing the keeper or going in from another side.

Normally, BThrow is the best option for killing Luma, and the "other side" strategy could be SH Air Dodge to Bair. Worked well against a CPU at least.

Customs on are a HUGE help, specifically the set 2213.

Fast Fireball racks up damage on Luma and eventually kills him, as well as being a good way to stop and possibly punish Luma Shot.

Shocking Cape takes advantage of Rosalina's juggability(or whatever xD) to cause some damage to her and Luma. You won't be needing reflectors.

Super Jump Punch for combos.

And finally, Scadling FLUUD. It makes you a temporary flamethrower, and since you gotta get close to use it, a Gravitational Pull can be punished. It also buffs your air speed while in use, and is a great way to stop Rosalina, or make her move however you like. I also tried with the other FLUUDs, but they have no effect on Luma, which will probably be up front.

This would be my best shot against Rosalina, what do you all think about it?
If you're looking for damage, Fast Fireball is terrible for that. It does 3.5%(close), 2% (Mid), 1.3%(far). Default Fireballs work better for this, and I found that FH Fireballs are actually not bad against a full defense Rosalina.

SH Air Dodge to B-air is asking for a U-Smash to the face.

Everything else seems correct.
 

JuanP_91

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If you're looking for damage, Fast Fireball is terrible for that. It does 3.5%(close), 2% (Mid), 1.3%(far). Default Fireballs work better for this, and I found that FH Fireballs are actually not bad against a full defense Rosalina.

SH Air Dodge to B-air is asking for a U-Smash to the face.
Well, I prefer Fast Fireballs because of the consistency, not the damage, as they are more likely to hit, and as I said, can bait a punishable Gravitational Pull.

From what I know, her U Smash just reaches so far behind her. I thought about the SH mainly as a bait as well, and in case Rosalina counters with an aerial or something with the minimum ending lag, comes the Dodge>Bair from a safe distance. Else, I'd just try to back off. This is more or less my purpose with it.
Still kind of situational, and might be hard to pull off. Not sure how it could work on a real fight.

One thing to note is he uses Up-B a lot, and I'm still trying to decipher why he does this.
The three moves Mario has that will always launch Luma (aside from Smashes) are BThrow impact, Dash Attack, and Up B. Maybe because of this, and the fact Rosalina is an easy target when vulnerable, idk.
 

HeroMystic

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How should Nair be utilized in the neutral game?
Should mostly be used to stuff short hops and dash grabs, and then convert into jab, D-Smash, or a grab. B-air does the same thing (and it has more range), but N-air is a front option and comes out much faster, and is meaty, and the sourspot is beneficial.

Can also use N-air to approach, when your opponent is aerial. Would not recommend using it when your opponent is grounded. N-air OOS is also really good when Up-B OOS will get you punished on hit.
 

MarioMeteor

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Anyone have any tips for the Rosalina matchup? It's the only MU I think I truly struggle with, mainly because I have a hard time approaching her, or getting any grabs in because of the Luma.
That's just it. Don't approach her. That's how everybody gets wrecked against old Rosie. Her defensive game is stronger than your offensive, so keep your space. From my experience, you mainly want Rosalina and Luma separated, cause dealing with them in joined formation is a battle you won't win. If you do get a grab, (don't get thirsty for them, though) back air is probably the way to go, since it knocks Luma away from Rosalina. All I can tell you is tap into your inner Brawl and be patient and don't rush in Bruce Lee style. Remember that Rosalina outranges you, which is a major problem when using Mario. Respect her, but don't be scared of her, and don't get thirsty. Above all, Fireballs are your best friend. Hope that helps.
And with that, I'll leave a question of my own. Yoshi. How the hell do I deal with that green pain in my ass?
 

A2ZOMG

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You technically beat Yoshi in neutral by fireball zoning and spacing B-airs. Don't get too aggressive with combos and focus on punishing him in spacing where he's weakest. You want to take it slow against him.
 

HeroMystic

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Furthermore, you don't want to sit in shield vs Yoshi. That's a mistake I've done a lot vs Yoshi mains and it makes the fight much harder than it needs to be. Don't let Yoshi control the pace of the match, otherwise he'll walk, or rather, float all over you.
 

MarioMeteor

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Furthermore, you don't want to sit in shield vs Yoshi. That's a mistake I've done a lot vs Yoshi mains and it makes the fight much harder than it needs to be. Don't let Yoshi control the pace of the match, otherwise he'll walk, or rather, float all over you.
Or flutter. But thanks for the advice.
 
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Gombi

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i have 2 questions on mario.

1- His is nair as good as luigi nair ?
2- Is there any trick when going off stage to come back with is weird angle in is up b that some time make you go away from the ledge ?
 

HeroMystic

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1. No, but it's still very good and very strong.
2. I'm not sure what you mean by this. Can you explain what you mean by weird angle?
 

Gombi

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1. No, but it's still very good and very strong.
2. I'm not sure what you mean by this. Can you explain what you mean by weird angle?
Well mario up-b don't go straight up it have an angle where he is facing. So if you are facing away from the legde and the ledge is right on top of you and you don't have a second jump. If you up-b you won't grab it.
 

aquaticpineapples

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Tilt your control stick slightly to the direction of the ledge and you should up-B the right way and grab the ledge.
 

HeroMystic

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Well mario up-b don't go straight up it have an angle where he is facing. So if you are facing away from the legde and the ledge is right on top of you and you don't have a second jump. If you up-b you won't grab it.
You can control the angle of the Up-B, by tilting in the direction you want to go.

-A regular SJP is a 70 degree angle.
-Holding forward makes Mario jump to a 45 degree angle.
-Holding Up, then back sends Mario up to a 90 degree angle, and actually increases the jump range, to the point where Mario can land at the top Battlefield platform.
-Holding backwards will B-reverse your SJP.
 

Reaper Talk

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Hey Mario mains!
I'm making a general character guide and was wondering what are Mario's best and worst stages?
All feedback is welcome and thank you in advance !
 

HeroMystic

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Hey Mario mains!
I'm making a general character guide and was wondering what are Mario's best and worst stages?
All feedback is welcome and thank you in advance !
Best Stages: Battlefield, Delfino, Halberd
Worst Stages: Kongo Jungle

**** Kongo Jungle.
 

A2ZOMG

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Best Stages: Battlefield, Delfino, Halberd
Worst Stages: Kongo Jungle

**** Kongo Jungle.
I wonder if @XeroXen has anything to say about Kongo Jungle. He has some shenanigans on that stage.

Though maybe it's just him being the way he is.
 
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