How to improve on Marth... I just started Melee week ago.

[ShootingStars]

deleted initial; edited 25th

okay guys i have read the approaching with Marth thread
and have a few questions and trouble

ive changed my controller holding;
left index control stick, left thumb shoulder
right index A,Y,B,cstick, right thumb Z, shoulder

i tried short hopping for hours today, why is it so inconsistent? when I WANT to do it i do it but then when i try to do it while performing aerial attacks and stuff it works 40% of the time

also, how the heck do i do a shuffled Fair? i got the rhythm of short hop double air, its getting the short hop part that troubles me 60% of the time...
how do you guys SHDF with shuffle?

do you guys walk or run when doing Fair mainly? i see some vids, some walk/run...

and i was trying a riding dair from ledge for about 1 hour today; WHY CAN'T I DO IT! i always fall down because i cant jump high enough to the stage

if anyone can help me with these; especially short hopping i would appreciate it

 

[ArcNatural]

Clawing is a bit weird. I actually played using the claw method for about 2 months before I decided instead of doing that I'll just switch to using Y to jump instead of X. Claw just hurts my hands too much after a while.

Just curious to what you use to shield/shieldgrab/tech/l-cancel/wavedash with. Due to how much work is involved with your right hand you probably should be doing most of this with L but it's up to you. I had issues cg-ing with the claw method as well since before I used my left index for Z and my middle finger for R. Switching between R and Z while jumping with my index finger to JC grab just didn't feel right.

Everything just comes down to practice, as long as your willing to work at it everything should come. Short hopping mainly deals with how fast you press the button, not how hard. So it's just a matter of muscle memory (ie more practice) until it's been fine tuned to the point where your hands just do it instinctively.

 

[ShootingStars]

wave dash with X/R/controls
shield with L
l-cancel with L

 

[Phoenix~Lament]

Just practice. What more can you do right now?

 

[B0mbe1c]

I think that getting an official controller might help a bit.

 

[Miggz]

You answered your own question, actually. You only started a week a ago. Now just keep playing. :-)h

 

[Archangel]

This may sound like noob advice but I suggest going to training mode. I remember when I first started learning the advanced techniques I came up with some creative training methods. Looking at pro vids and trying to move that fast will only frustrate you right away. What was speed up movements to 1.5 on training mode and just attempted every advance technique I knew. I did this for about an hour total with different characters. Then I did it again on normal speed. It makes everything seem like it's slowed down even though it really isn't. I did this for a few days until moving fast on normal speed was easy. As far as Wave-dashing goes I also practiced it on training mode. I would put the CPU on Evade or attack and I would allow myself to walk.I just did it until it felt I was able to feel out the timing of the Wave-dash. However the timing is different for every character so you may want to switch up between the characters you use but most important that you get the movements down with your mains.

 

[ChivalRuse]

A lot of people use Y to jump and SH. I find it extremely easy to SH with X, however. I just slide my thumb over and past the X button and instantly either bring it back to A for a neutral air or to the c-stick for any other aerial.

I l-cancel with L.
I shield with R, actually.
I wavedash with X and R.
I JC grabs with X and Z.
I JC upsmashes with up on the analog stick and up on the c-stick.

 

[Roche_CL]

play a LOT!
when you start, experience is all you need, play against lots of different chars and learn different strategies against them, if you don't manage to create your own strats, just watch videos and learn from them, watch m2k *-*, there are tons of videos of him against many chars.

knowing well your chars move, what suits better in different situations, Spacing!, mindgames, etc, all of that only exp will bring it.

personally i use Y for jumping with the thumb since it is easier to change then to A or B than using X. And also i think your problem of SH is because you use your Index for Jumping xD, omg, i really find it like...imposible, better do it with your thumb o.o.

and marth doesn't need very fast change position (like fox for SH double laser, since B is more far than A), so you can easily SHDF with X.

 

[Havokbringer]

Well I know I'm posting the same thing as everybody else but I would have said if nobody else said it >_>

Just practice. The best thing by Far that you could be doing.

Second best thing would be to go to tournaments and play to learn, but win ofc if you can :D.

 

[xerdosx]

im new as well but the SHDF is basically a rythem. so on ur primary jump as soon as u short hop press the a going up and as ur coming down press it agin. i do nt fast fall mine. i hope this helps

 

[Havokbringer]

*ignore this double post*

 

[Havokbringer]

Yeah the SHDF is easier learned if you think of it as a rhythm. (at least for me it was)

The F-airs are about half a second apart from each other so you should be doing the second f-air when you are about half way down from your SH.

Some people find it easier to use A for the first f-air then using the c-stick but for me I just use c-stick.

Try both ways and see whats easier for you. :D

 

[ShootingStars]

ok guys i got the hand of short hop double fairs
can anyone tell me very important tech skills to practice alone?
its hard to work on things like teching w/o friends.
and how do i know when i have done an L-cancel? i tried it with Link and saw no effect with his down Air...

does Marth shuffle/l cancel alot
can anyone tell me common techniques Marth uses I can practice? its hard to tell them from videos

can anyone tell me what combos to practice instead of doing random ones?
my friend who just DODGES me and spams smash A c-stick always beats me -_-
he always camps and c-stick
i do all the short hop and etc and he knows no tech he beat me

 

[MarkLoo]

press L slightly BEFORE landing on the ground.
it should cut the ending lag in half.

if he's dodging your attacks you're being too obvious. try jumping, waiting for the spot dodge, and then attacking. if he's rolling, then instead of attacking, wait for the roll, then hit him in the lag afterwards.

 

[ShootingStars]

okay guys i have read the approaching with Marth thread
and have a few questions and trouble

ive changed my controller holding;
left index control stick, left thumb shoulder
right index A,Y,B,cstick, right thumb Z, shoulder

i tried short hopping for hours today, why is it so inconsistent? when I WANT to do it i do it but then when i try to do it while performing aerial attacks and stuff it works 40% of the time

also, how the heck do i do a shuffled Fair? i got the rhythm of short hop double air, its getting the short hop part that troubles me 60% of the time...
how do you guys SHDF with shuffle?

do you guys walk or run when doing Fair mainly? i see some vids, some walk/run...

and i was trying a riding dair from ledge for about 1 hour today; WHY CAN'T I DO IT! i always fall down because i cant jump high enough to the stage

if anyone can help me with these; especially short hopping i would appreciate it

 

[Kadano]

I'm a noob too. The shdf can't be fast falled, but it should be l-canceled.
I do it by hitting the control stick uüwards slightly and press forward c immediately. Then I wait a small bit (just practice to get the timing) and hit forward c again, followed by a l-cancel with Z.
IFor me, i's easier to short hop with the control stick. When I jump with X/Y, I'm having problems in actual matches too, but I can do it consistently in training mode.
I think it's a lot harder to shffl whilst moving because I always get a bit nervous and do it too fast.

I'm playing since about 3 months and learning/practicing very efficiently, just as my friend. When I had been playing for just a week I was definitely a lot worse then you; I think that you should be proud of yourself.

 

[Kinglit]

can anyone tell me what combos to practice instead of doing random ones?
my friend who just DODGES me and spams smash A c-stick always beats me -_-
he always camps and c-stick
i do all the short hop and etc and he knows no tech he beat me

mindgames and predictions ^_^

my guess is ur being too aggressive and he's just waiting for the right opportunity to cstick u

also look for patterns in his dodging. then **** him.

 

[BananaTrooper]

forget all that fancy **** and just fsmash more.

 

[polyopulis]

right now you probably aren't going to be able to beat your friend as you really need to get the hang of advanced techs to be able to use them effectively. but losing isn't bad. if you try these advanced techs in actual battle, you will get the hang of them faster and you will eventually be able to beat your friend.
an example is when you are doing shffl'd fairs, if you don't have the spacing or the speed and your opponent is shielding/CCing or is at low percent or is playing a fast falling or heavy character, you will get punished easily.

you should be able to see a difference when you l cancel dairs, they have a lot of landing lag. if you can't do it, slow it down to 1/2 speed.

 

[Kal]

I'm a noob too. The shdf can't be fast falled, but it should be l-canceled.

SHDF can be fast fallen. The key is to fast fall during the second fair. So you do a rising fair, then a fast fallen fair.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

forget all that fancy **** and just fsmash more.

word. that was my problem.

 

[The Star King]

Yeah, this is off topic, but major wtf at your username. =O Please tell me you're not a girl I've been telling people for years that my username is NOT GIRLY. >=[

 

[Nø Ca$h]

@kadano:jump with x or y. you have much more controll over where you jump that way. if you cant Short hop with x/y, put little pressure on the button and than quickly slide it off.

@ claw disscussion:i might introduce the method to a friend of mine. when he plays DMC3 with gunslinger, he has right thumb on [ ] and right index on O. hes crazy, he button mashes both buttons simultaneously.

@ all new marths: dont learn the shdf, or any of the other big things until u master FSMASH.perfect it and its spacing

 

[Vitality]

How I do my SHFFL fairs is by jumping to my full SH height, press down cstick forward and press L all relatively close to being at the same time. If you do happen to press a full jump just do a fair, jump, fair, fair/nair, lcancel. To be honest the biggest thing that I tell people is to learn your range. If you can learn the range then you're pretty much set. Space yourself, and get a grab. Some people say Marth can't kill but you just need to know your tips :D

 

[Rubyiris]

First and formost, if you play using the c stick DO NOT USE TRAINING MODE. In 1p mode, the c stick controls the camera, rather than being used for aerials, and smash attacks. Play against level 1 CPUs, or read about the "Play by yourself" glitch using the name entry glitch.

When practicing execution, it's going to take more than a few hours to get consistent at even the easiest thing, such as short hopping. Honestly, one of the best things you can do when starting melee is to completely omit all technical aspects of the game, and focus on strengthening the very basic fundamentals. Basic spacing. short hops. techs. basic reads and baits.

Once you're comfortable at a basic level, you can then begin to work on the fundamental advanced techniques. L-Canceling should be the VERY first thing that should be learned. This opens up an entirely new world to you. More advanced spacing. More advanced reads and baits. This is about where you begin to learn the rock - paper - scissors aspect of shield grabbing, and baiting shield grabs.

Once L-Canceling has been refined to a science, you can then begin to learn the other ATs, such as Wavedashing, and all its different forms. Wavelanding. Wavelanding from the ledge. Wavedashing out of Shield. Wavedashing onto the ledge. Wavelanding from a platform onto the ledge.

At this point, once you've begun to understand what wavedashing is used for, and how to use it properly, you can begin to learn various other aspects of the game, such as character specific strategies.

 

[SeanxFayt]

ok guys i got the hand of short hop double fairs
can anyone tell me very important tech skills to practice alone?
its hard to work on things like teching w/o friends.
and how do i know when i have done an L-cancel? i tried it with Link and saw no effect with his down Air...

does Marth shuffle/l cancel alot
can anyone tell me common techniques Marth uses I can practice? its hard to tell them from videos

can anyone tell me what combos to practice instead of doing random ones?
my friend who just DODGES me and spams smash A c-stick always beats me -_-
he always camps and c-stick
i do all the short hop and etc and he knows no tech he beat me

wow... dude we're in the same predicament lol except the guy i play doesn't beat me... yet he manages to take off like 2-3 stock sometimes.

he tries to spotdodge every thing i do so i wait it out and grab em lol