Guide How to do the Infinite/Wobbling

A-1

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hey guys, i guess you can say im fairly new to ice climbers and competitive melee but been playing them for about 7-8 months now.

i have most of the basics down and some advanced techs. imo F-tilt and jab cancel wobble are the best. i can also Dair CG.

my strongest problems are the handoff and blizzard CG's. i cant seem to grab after nana F-throws. and timing for the blizzard escapes me, any tips?
 

Grim Tuesday

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For the hand-off, remember that you need to move forward slightly (against most characters) to be able to grab after Nana's fthrow.
If you just can't get the timing right, try and practice against every character and slightly adjust your timing each time, when you eventually get it against someone, keep drilling against that character and everyone else should fall into place.
 

Xombie

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I'm still having trouble getting the timing down. I'm much more of a visual learner then anything else, looked around youtube and couldn't find any videos of someone actually doing the motion on a controller and was wondering if anyone could make a quick tutorial to help me out.
 

Dark Lady

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I'm still having trouble getting the timing down. I'm much more of a visual learner then anything else, looked around youtube and couldn't find any videos of someone actually doing the motion on a controller and was wondering if anyone could make a quick tutorial to help me out.
I have a thread for like exact auditory timing if that helps you at all; "Breaking the Habit and the Perfect Wobble" is the title. For visual tutorial, just watch any IC's wobbling vid. The timing will always be the same. Always. And one thing to look for is the Secondary Climber's grab animation if you executed it standing. You have to wait until the grab animation is finished to initiate the wobble.
 
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The timing doesn't have to be extremely percise, just make sure it's accurate. Any where between (approx.) 144-160 bpm will do.
200bpm works for me
I did my best to time Wobblez with a metronome in the videos I've seen. It seems to fall pretty neatly into the 184 bpm neighborhood pretty consistently. I think you could as a general rule just use a presto tempo. I'm not certain about how well it works in prestissimo, but you never know.
 
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Too many people with too many different BPM counts...

Can someone just give a song they've used that works?

Man, sorry for the late reply.

Well, there are a lot of songs you could use. I would suggest something with a steady rhythm, easy to count you might say. Metal is surprisingly great for this. All That Remains and Lamb of God are pretty consistently "Wobble-worthy" but if that doesn't work for you, try the intro to "The Wall pt. II" by Pink Floyd, or "Scar Tissue" by RHCP. Those have actually worked pretty well for me under pressure.
 

Tomber

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I used to think of "Flash" by Queen when I learned to use wobbling. And since I'm the ICs player who's best at wobbling then that must be the only right song to use.

Seriously though, quite a few different songs should work. 200 BPM is what you want, but anything from 180 to 220 BPM works just fine. If you tend to "rush" when you tab, however, you should aim for just below 200 BPM.
 

Doublecork

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The A timing for wobbling is actually very simple; listen to the song "Under the Influence" by Eminem and D12, and tap A to that beat. Works perfectly. (Sounds stupid, right?)
 

Tomber

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So, I did some math, and if I got it right then anything between 156,5-257 BPM can work if you use f-tilt and your tapping is tight. This is without taking account for stalling, however, so the window is a little smaller, like 180-240 BPM. Also, looking at the frame data I'm pretty confident that 200 BPM is the best tempo to use. I might make a more in-depth post about this sometime.
 

Tomber

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BPMs of 120-140 shouldn't work nomatter how consistent you are. Maybe your tapping feeling is different, as in 2x or 1.5x tempo/BPM (like 1/8 or 1/12 nodes and not 1/4).

I'll do some more testing anyway
 
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The amount of leeway you have in terms of rhythm is pretty dependent on what percent you get the grab at. You're best bet is just to know your hitstun. I might comeback later at post some numbers.
 

S2rulL

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Am I a scumbag because I love Wobbling people? Was at a Smashfest recently and I made 3 people 3 RQ against my ICs cus I was wavedashing straight into Wobbles.
 

Myougi

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Too many people with too many different BPM counts...

Can someone just give a song they've used that works?
Go on Dreamland 64 and listen to the music there. Listen to the background horn bits and hit the A button accordingly. After running some tests it looks like Dreamland 64's music is at exactly 186.84 beats per minute.


Tip on Dreamland 64, if Whispy Woods (The tree in the back) blows you off near the edge make Nana preform a d-tilt rather than an f-tilt. If you are facing the ledge Nana will walk off and break the wobble.

Studies show humans react faster to audio cues than visual cues, but since visual cues are always good I'm looking into the green hit sparks when Popo and Nana hit. The hit sparks may be of use to tell if we are preforming the Wobble correctly. I'll get back to you on that.
 
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S2rulL

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I see a lot of people talking about BPM in association with Wobbling. My method involves literally just counting out the hits in my head. Just - 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2. 1 being Popo's headbutt, 2 being Nana's dtilt. Probably not the best method but works the best for myself. Either that or I just remember the beat from Gorillaz - Clint Eastwood.
 

Tomber

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Yeah, I do the same thing, just in series of 4. Makes it kind of easier IMO. Having such a feeling of the beat also makes it easier to finish the wobbling. Like, if you want to finish your wobbling with a down-smash then you should press down of the c-stick on "2" or "4", and if you want to finish with a down throw then you should press down on "1" or "3". Also, if you want to hand off Fox at the edge you should press down on "1" and input the grab on "2" if your wobbling BPM is around 200.
 
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DerfMidWest

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the actual technique is not that hard to learn.
the difficult part is being able to set it up in real play, once people understand the matchup, you have to work really hard to get a grab (and if it's not a clean grab, you can't initiate a wobble)
 

Myougi

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How much practice does this take? I'm a pm player that wants to pick up ICs in melee.
the actual technique is not that hard to learn.
the difficult part is being able to set it up in real play, once people understand the matchup, you have to work really hard to get a grab (and if it's not a clean grab, you can't initiate a wobble)
Ending it properly can also be a bit of an issue without practice and careful eyes. To make sure you end the wobble correctly, you will need to buffer the final blow as Nana and not Popo. Make sure you buffer a move with the C-stick (Usually F-smashes are the best) while Popo is preforming a jab.

When wobbling, tap the A button at 180 bpm. This song is around that mark and can help you with timing:
Dreamland 64's theme is at 186 bpm and you can use that to aid your wobbles.

If you still can't get it down, just watch an Ice Climber player's hands.

Edit: I forgot to mention, Jump cancel all of your grabs or else Nana won't 'gravitate' towards you fast enough to wobble. All you have to do to jump cancel grabs is jump about 2-3 frames before you grab.

Another thing, by going for wobbles you do lose a lot of your neutral game going for them. Only do them when you are grounded and have sure-fire grabs. If you're looking to pick up Icies only because they have the infinite, I would advise you to turn away. Going for wobbling has it's costs and it's faults - one missed grab can lead to an easy separation of the climbers, making it easy for characters to kill Nana and you. It may be a powerful technique, but it's by no means broken.
 
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DerfMidWest

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I approve of the gorillaz post.
the timing isn't too specific, there is a big range of bpm that works, but you just need to be in a consistent tempo

also you can't buffer moves in melee unless you're in stun or something
 

Myougi

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I approve of the gorillaz post.
the timing isn't too specific, there is a big range of bpm that works, but you just need to be in a consistent tempo

also you can't buffer moves in melee unless you're in stun or something
Not true, you can buffer moves in Melee when the Icies are desynced or one of them is occupied with another command/action.
By buffer, I mean to input a command (such as a smash attack) while Popo is busy, making him skip the input and making Nana deal it 6 frames later. (ie, Nana does a F-Smash as Popo finishes his Pummel.)
 

S2rulL

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The weird thing is; despite people in my region expressing to me how much they HATE wobbling, it's actually levelled our players up a tonne. People are becoming a lot more consistent in the game and generally becoming better and finding ways to avoid getting wobbled, leading to me learning more neutral and desync options, and as a whole, it's helped everyone improve dramatically.
 

Bron

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Anyone have any tips on the timing to do the downsmash after you're done wobbling? I seem to get it 50-50 with the other 50 I end up throwing the opponent
 

Myougi

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Anyone have any tips on the timing to do the downsmash after you're done wobbling? I seem to get it 50-50 with the other 50 I end up throwing the opponent
Watch Popo (the first one) and as he pummels input a D-Smash. The input will be ignored by Popo since he is busy but Nana will receive it 6 frames later.

Edit: I literally posted almost exactly this 2 posts back.
 
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Amadeus

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Edit: I forgot to mention, Jump cancel all of your grabs or else Nana won't 'gravitate' towards you fast enough to wobble. All you have to do to jump cancel grabs is jump about 2-3 frames before you grab.
is this true? i thought jc grabs were useless for ics because frames were the same between dash and standing
 

BluntMaster

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If you dash grab with popo, nana will still try to dash grab and have to recover from the long whiffed dash grab animation. If you JC grab with popo, nana will JC grab too and not have to recover from the whiff. After this she will slide back towards you
 
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