How to Deal With Specific Moves: Pikachu's QAC & Thunder Jolt

[Sudai]

Punishing with DSmash is a bad idea. Have to assume the Snake player knows how to SDI as well. Grab or FSmash probably best options.

Don't be surprised if Snakes get used to this though. I've been SDIing the first hit FTilt with decent accuracy for ages and they just take the free damage then turn and FTilt (if you do something laggy) or mortar slide away or something.

 

[TheMike]

Yeah, but if Snake doesn't SDI the Dsmash, it'll be fine because it's a good idea to have Snake above you. It isn't the best option though.

 

[Sudai]

If you're in a match where SDIing the FTilt will make an actual difference, the Snake will SDI the DSmash.

 

[TheMike]

Ok, so Grab and... Dthrow?

 

[Tin Man]

then from D throw, either follow up, or run away and spam again

 

[CT Chia]

fthrow or bthrow snake when u get a grab, just to get him off the stage faster

its better for rob when u corner him to the edge of a stage and hopefully get him off of it

 

[TheMike]

DI Ftilt towards Snake and punish with Grab or Fsmash. When punishing with a Grab, you can either Fthrow, Bthrow or Dthrow. F/Bthrow to get him off stage. When Dthrowed, you can either follow up(Uair) or run away and spam again.

Ftilt OoS always work as a punishment when power shielded.
The same for Utilt.


I think that this is all we have.

 

[Darth Waffles]

So basically... I haven't seen any good options besides maybe an ftilt (which when powershielded gets paid back with a snake ftilt). I don't know how I'm supposed to SDI through snake during the first hit of ftilt when he's spacing even close to where he should be, so unless I see a video of someone doing that, I can't rely on it. ROB's ftilt, apparently, has the best chance of outranging snake's ftilt, so I really wouldn't be in a position to SDI through him anyway.

It's even more awkward when you finally kill Snake and you're at like 115% and he walks, not runs, toward you. I have no good options. Even if I get to the ledge, I have no solid options to get back on with when invincibility runs out

 

[6Mizu]

I don't know if anyone said this...but......for ROB.....both are punishable on shield.

 

[TheMike]

Tiem for IC's Down B.

How to deal with it? Avoid it? Punish it?


GO!

 

[Mr.E]

Shoot lasers. (Don't shoot Gyro.) DI up/toward and smack them in the face with FAir if you get caught in it.

...Next? *cough*

 

[CJTHeroofTime]

What about when you're on the ledge and they blizzard the ledge? That's probably the most difficult situation IMO

 

[Sudai]

Get up attack.

 

[Syde7]

what about desync'd blizzards when one is on a platform and the other below it? I think ive seen a time or two where they can move back and forth while still retaining their general "one on top and one on bottom" of the platform. I guess the obvious solution is to just... stay as far away from it as possible. But, in the event you get caught in one, especially in their staggard position... you kind of DI out of one and into the other. Any special way to get out of that?

 

[Sudai]

SDI away instead of up. You should be SDIing away on normal blizzards anyway unless you're only caught in nana's in which case you should be going up and away to get away from Popograb.

 

[Tin Man]

So basically... I haven't seen any good options besides maybe an ftilt (which when powershielded gets paid back with a snake ftilt). I don't know how I'm supposed to SDI through snake during the first hit of ftilt when he's spacing even close to where he should be, so unless I see a video of someone doing that, I can't rely on it. ROB's ftilt, apparently, has the best chance of outranging snake's ftilt, so I really wouldn't be in a position to SDI through him anyway.

It's even more awkward when you finally kill Snake and you're at like 115% and he walks, not runs, toward you. I have no good options. Even if I get to the ledge, I have no solid options to get back on with when invincibility runs out

when he walk toward you Ftilt him, the 1st hit of our outranges his

What about when you're on the ledge and they blizzard the ledge? That's probably the most difficult situation IMO

press Y to jump over em, then Bair while they are still blizzarding, not 100% sure if get up attack works, will the attack work after 100%?

what about desync'd blizzards when one is on a platform and the other below it? I think ive seen a time or two where they can move back and forth while still retaining their general "one on top and one on bottom" of the platform. I guess the obvious solution is to just... stay as far away from it as possible. But, in the event you get caught in one, especially in their staggard position... you kind of DI out of one and into the other. Any special way to get out of that?

fall back off the edge, double jump, then laser em, that will ruin their desynch, then get back on the edge, and try to get back onstage with mindgamez ( like to jump from the edge over the climbers

 

[Sudai]

Getup attack works even better after 100%, just slower.

 

[Syde7]

fall back off the edge, double jump, then laser em, that will ruin their desynch, then get back on the edge, and try to get back onstage with mindgamez ( like to jump from the edge over the climbers

Wasn't talking about while on the edge. I was talking about them using it as a brickwall, or as a defense

 

[Sudai]

If they're just using it to brickwall, free laser.

 

[CJTHeroofTime]

Idk, I just remember last time I was playing Cura's ICs, everytime I was on the ledge, if he got into position before I got back on the stage, I would eat 15-40 damage at least, and get-up attack is usually one of my first resorts, idk if he was spacing it/ just a desynch so he couuld shieldgrab w/ popo or whatever, but it was pretty frustrating.

 

[Sudai]

If he's spaced so get up attack won't hit, you're safe on the ledge so just wait for an opening. Some times you have to camp even when you're not in the lead..

 

[6Mizu]

For Ic's Down B, I'd.....SDI...then go for a punish.

 

[TheMike]

So, from what I get from the posts:

Shoot Lasers(no Gyros!). If they blizzard the ledge, get up attack even when above 100%. When they a make a wall desyching with one above the plattform and the other below it, SDI away. You can also shoot laser if you're far from them. If they are using it, staggered as an approach, I would run away and shoot laser.


I think that is all we have, right?

 

[Syde7]

One more thing... what if they are using it, staggered as an approach? I typically just retreat to the ledge... just curious as to whether or not there is a better way.

 

[TheMike]

I would run away and shoot laser.

 

[TheMike]

OP Updated.

Time for Pikachu's QAC and his Thunder Jolt.


Thunder Jolt we should PS and try a fast punisher. Is there any other good option besides Ftilt? And for QAC I think Dsmash is fine. Something else? If so, discuss!

 

[Darth Waffles]

For thunder jolt, powershielding is best from a distance, fair can cancel it out and nair will cancel it out and keep going through it. Read QAC. There are only so many directions that pikachu can move in, especially if the second direction is supposed to go into the ground. You can shield everything if you need to, or just move away (or in the air, cover yourself with a nair)

 

[TheMike]

Thunder Jolt = Power Shield. Fair and Nair can also cancel it.
QAC = Read it. You can either shield everything, or move away(in the air) covering yourself with a Nair ou try Dsmash!

Thanks, Fishy. :D


Suggestion to next discussion?

 

[Mister Eric]

Hello, old thread.
I just wanted to throw this out there about Marth bc I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet. When you shield Marth's DB, and he decides to try all hits on you, before the last variation there's a bit of a pause before his last DB comes out, therefore he can be grabbed. It doesn't sound like a much, but it sure aggravates other Marth players. We could try to spot dodge the last variation, but if he decides to do the green blade, it will eat right through it. Try it out.

Also, does anyone know how to deal with Zelda's up smash? My butt's too big, idk about yours.

 

[Zwarm]

There's not much you can do about Zelda's up smash. It picks us right off the ground because of our height. If we shield it, they're free to throw out another up smash or grab us, it's quite annoying. Down smash OoS is probably our best bet, but that can get predictable fast. I find the Zelda MU to be pretty hard, actually. One of the best Zelda's goes to school with me, and we play pretty frequently, I usually have a hard time beating him. :/

 

[Trillest]

KK next move ^^

 

[TheMike]

Does anybody have any suggestion to the next discussion?

 

[ccst]

Pikmin spam (side special) or G&W's bair/nair.

 

[Sudai]

GnW's BAir is easy. SDI out and smack him for more damage.

Pikmin spam is beaten by approaching with SH FAirs at mid range. Side-B lulz at long range, just FTilt him when you're closer and he throws one. lol

 

[TheBuddah]

Idk I have allot of trouble with the Turtle as an approach, perhaps I'm simply looking at it with the wrong attitude. I try to avoid situations in which I'm SDI'ing to punish soley because I always seem to get caught by the hitbox somehow... I usually use the Top as a Spacer for this, Bad approach?

 

[Zwarm]

SDI G&W's bair up and towards him, and punish it with a bair of your own. That's what I always do. =D

 

[Sudai]

Idk I have allot of trouble with the Turtle as an approach, perhaps I'm simply looking at it with the wrong attitude. I try to avoid situations in which I'm SDI'ing to punish soley because I always seem to get caught by the hitbox somehow... I usually use the Top as a Spacer for this, Bad approach?

Well, you don't have to let yourself get hit by BAir, just know to SDI it when you do. If the GnW spaces BAir perfect, SH backwards and laser, if he spaces it poorly, you can shield it and get an FTilt OoS, just be careful of that last grounded hit.

The SDI is there in case you get hit or you're confident in your SDI ability. I personally like to get hit by the BAir just to punish it because the GnW will eventually stop BAir spamming (or eat **** loads of damage) which I like.

 

[Silhouette]

I bait the Bair < Walk away < F-tilt him when he lands. Sitting under a platform helps so he can't Double Jump and hover for pressure.