How the heck do I avoid/DI Fox's uthrow > uair combo?

[ConnorTheKid]

How the heck do I avoid Fox's up air? I seem to DI in all directions but I still get hit by the stronger part of the hitbox. I see other Marths DI where they only get hit by the sourspot or the up air. Please help!

I also need help against samus but I didn't want to make more than 1 thread. Can anyone give me some tips on how to play/dominate Samus? I just can't fight them at all!

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Most of the time, if its a skilled fox, hes going to reach you with his u-air after the up-throw most of the time. Your best bet is to smash di out of the first hit of his up-air (the weak one) so the second misses.

 

[technomancer]

The KDJ method: don't DI the upthrow, and wiggle the stick side to side as fast as possible (dashdancing motion) to smash DI the first hit and get out.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Many people do that, don't give it a name.

 

[KyloWinter]

Dtilt samus since she crouch cancels everything. And fthrow to fsmash, that's pretty good.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Ah, didn't see the samus part, if she is crouch canceling most of your attacks, shuffle a dair into her. I wouldn't advise trying to f-throw to f-smash unless they di poorly, you can follow up your f-throw with fairs pretty easy. At low %'s, I'd upthrow then react accordingly, up-tilts will cut through her sex kick with proper spacing.

 

[Sinz]

You knee to wave shine to tipped fsmash dat dawg.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

If only sinz...if only..

 

[ConnorTheKid]

hmm, thanks for the input everyone! For Samus, dtilt doesn't really work because they usually just counter my dtilt with a dsmash or dtilt of their own or they're faster than me. is there anything I can do other than to dair? I heard faking out a double fair with just one fair is effective, what do you guys think? I'd appreciate some new tactics against samus aswell.

 

[FrostByte]

If it's missile spam you're worried about, just jab the missiles away. If samus approaches you with a missile, use the fair to swipe both the missile and her. Space your dtilts very well as to not get hit bu samus' attacks. Off a grab, fthrow to fair if they don't DI, fthrow to full jump fair if they di and try to jump out of it.

I'm sure dair is good for edgeguarding (I wouldn't go for it though, I'm a pal player) as is the bair. Try to predict when Samus will use her bomb jump/grapple beam and bair her out of it. Battlefield and I'm sure mute city are anti Samus stages.

 

[pressthebutton]

If it's missile spam you're worried about, just jab the missiles away. If samus approaches you with a missile, use the fair to swipe both the missile and her. Space your dtilts very well as to not get hit bu samus' attacks. Off a grab, fthrow to fair if they don't DI, fthrow to full jump fair if they di and try to jump out of it.

I'm sure dair is good for edgeguarding (I wouldn't go for it though, I'm a pal player) as is the bair. Try to predict when Samus will use her bomb jump/grapple beam and bair her out of it. Battlefield and I'm sure mute city are anti Samus stages.

ah not so much battlefield. some samuses aren't very good on battlefield, but most decent samuses aren't affected by battlefield. stick with counterpicking small stages like yoshis story and fountain of dreams

 

[snoblo]

i main with samus and marth is my least favorite character to play against =P

If it's the dtilt/dsmash you're worried about, maybe try something like a fsmash since the range is longer than dtilt/dsmash. if they do it so predictably maybe even try a counter.

and for air attacks, dont be too predictable. Switch it up, and try different combinations. Maybe try a B attack in the air instead of a fair for fun =D

 

[ConnorTheKid]

Thanks a lot guys! This will definitely improve my game now! Keep them coming!

 

[FrostByte]

ah not so much battlefield. some samuses aren't very good on battlefield, but most decent samuses aren't affected by battlefield. stick with counterpicking small stages like yoshis story and fountain of dreams

These stages screw up her recovery since she doesn't have any solid surface to grapple onto. It's easy to bair a samus (who will usually airdodge) on battlefield for the kill.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Samus can grapple battlefield can easily if she has any skill in shooting it. Either by shooting the ledge directly or hitting the lower part and bomb jumping into person.

 

[FrostByte]

There is only one point at which samus can grapple with the most safety and this is why you must abuse it. Predictability has increased majorly when compared to stages with long walls like FD and DL64. You know Samus will be at one point at a certain time so you just have to hit at the right time. Anyway, this is just from my experience and could be because battlefield is one of the stages I persoanlly do well on (everybody likes to ban YS). As for recovering from the bottom, all I see it as is giving you more time to get into a better edgeguarding position.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Yes, all what you said is true, but you said she "Couldn't" grapple onto the stage.

Watch the words you use, its possible, just easy to defend against. I agree with all else you said.

 

[knightpraetor]

just wanted to ask..it's always better to smash DI to the side than smash DI up when trying to get out of fox's upair combos?

and as i understand it if you do DI the initial throw you should smash di in the opposite direction for the upair

meh people never seem to agree..i should just find someone's opinion i trust and use it

 

[thebluedeath1000]

I'm pretty sure side smash di is much better than up...lol...but don't quote me on that.

And don't worry about the di of the initial throw what so ever,I've smash di'ed either way after di-ing that way and it worked, just focus on smash di-ing out of that hit.

And knight, if you can't trust anyone, just do what you believe.

 

[Byped]

don't get grabbed....

 

[JDZL]

i've been told that you have to di the throw to one side.
this forces the fox to chase after you.
then you have to smash di the first hit of the uair in the opposite direction that you di'ed the throw in.
eg. fox throws you up, you di right.
he runs and jumps right, and you smash di left.

the momentum from his jump carries him to the right, and if combined with your smash in the opposite direction, should bring you out of the 2nd hit sweetspot.

i couldn't tell you if this works for me, as i suck and have no di anyways...

 

[theONEjanitor]

yeah if you know their going to grab you, just smash di to one side.
at low damages a good fox can still get you tho

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

i notice someone stated to wiggle the control stick left/right to SDI out of fox's uair, and this sounds effective, but i was wondering if there is additionally a direction to ASDI fox's uair (with the cstick of course). I don't even play marth, i actually play Falco and Fox ironically, but i was just wondering for when i do fight against Fox's?

 

[balladechina212]

I heard KoreanDJ (I think) does this: (it's pretty brilliant)

Like you guys said, if you DI the uthrow in one direction, you have to SDI the uair in the other direction. But if you don't DI the uthrow, you can SDI in either direction (left or right) to get out of the uair. So KDJ purposely does not DI the uthrow, and then wiggles the control stick left and right rapidly. I think it works.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

It does, many people do it this way now. I use it sometimes because it just feels akward like I'm setting myself up to be hit but it does indeed work.

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

lol yeah i read about that earlier in this thread, bu i aws wondering if there is an ASDI to do it, instead of just relying on SDI?

 

[Dark Sonic]

lol yeah i read about that earlier in this thread, bu i aws wondering if there is an ASDI to do it, instead of just relying on SDI?

Since you don't really know which way you're smash DIing it's better to just rely on the control stick to ASDI in the same direction that you ASDI'd. Just jiggly it back and forth and hold it in the direction it's in after you get hit.

 

[brawlpro]

lol i think that fox's uthrow>uair combo makes up for marth chaingrabing on fox 0 to death!

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

Dtilt samus since she crouch cancels everything. And fthrow to fsmash, that's pretty good.

Dtilt samus doesn't work very well at % less than like.. 70. My samuses tend to crouchcancel dsmash me when I poke, unless I somehow manage to get another poke in very quickly. Fthrow-fsmash doesn't really work unless the samus is at high percentage and decides to DI against you. You might consider fthrow-wavedash-fsmash if you see they are DIing towards you.

just wanted to ask..it's always better to smash DI to the side than smash DI up when trying to get out of fox's upair combos?

and as i understand it if you do DI the initial throw you should smash di in the opposite direction for the upair

Smash DIing it up doesn't work [for me]. I fully DI the throw to one direction and smash DI it to the opposite as the first hit of the uair makes impact.

As well, it makes it a tiny bit harder for Fox to get the uair at all if you DI to the side. Near the edge of the stage, it would make more sense to DI away, because the Fox might feel uncomfortable uair-ing off the stage.

Question, if Fox grabs you at 0%, they can't make the uair a combo, can they? But if you DI it fully to one side, they can usmash you. What, then, do you do if a fox uthrows you at 0%?

 

[thebluedeath1000]

I honestly don't know how to answer that question firex.

I deal with foxes every day and that happens yet I can't answer lol.

Hmm...dang..you've got me. I don't really know what you can do before the fox reaches you. But I believe all you can do is pray if you get grabbed at 0% because you're getting hit either way...eh, No di direction is really safe and I don't believe theres enough time to defend yourself so I suppose just pray.

I need to go fight some foxes and see how just exactly if you can do anything.

For once, I can't answer. I phail the marth boards. *Hangs head in shame*

But seriously, I don't believe theres anything you can do to ensure your safety, you just have to hope for the best..get some % on you and then you'll have some options.

Usually getting grabbed at 0% leads to getting a beating so I wouldn't think much of it.

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

I honestly don't know how to answer that question firex.

I forgive you.

I don't believe theres enough time to defend yourself so I suppose just pray.

Will do =]

For once, I can't answer. I phail the marth boards. *Hangs head in shame*

The Marth boards forgive you.

Usually getting grabbed at 0% leads to getting a beating so I wouldn't think much of it.

Agreed, but...

But seriously, I don't believe theres anything you can do to ensure your safety, you just have to hope for the best..get some % on you and then you'll have some options.

Okay. Well, at 0%, I don't think uthrow uair is a combo. I believe you can get out of it by not DIing, then countering. Of course, the opponent will catch on, and then just wait. That's my problem. I don't like playing guessing games.

You can try to fair, but since the uair comes from below you, the move isn't given enough time beat the uair. You can DI to fair and Fox would be within the fair range then, but they can usmash you, and you'll end up taking damage anyway [maybe trade damage]. There's no love for marth there. Also, my Foxes seem to know I won't DI at 0%, and I'll try for a fair or counter. What they do instead is just uthrow bair. And it works, and combos into other moves, just as the uthrow-usmash does >.>

I was just hoping there's away I could avoid being hurt without guessing.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

I thought the fair would come out, but just not be able to hit..I didn't think the counter would come out before the fox reached you. I'll be trying that and see.

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

That's correct. The fair would come out, but not hit [if you don't DI the throw]. If you DI the throw, and fair, you will most likely trade hits. If your Fox is fast and spaces properly, you will get hit by the usmash. The counter works at 0% (at least for me?). It doesn't work against the bair though, maybe because the hitbox of the bair is larger than the uair's in the first few frames.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

I'll give it some testing..

I believe the fox could still get you without trading hits, not sure but I'll see.

Although, the countering at 0% from grab is very...original, I've never seen it done nor have I tried it. But you're correct how it would only catch someone off guard once then that trick is out of your game.

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

I believe the fox could still get you without trading hits, not sure but I'll see.

If your Fox is fast and spaces properly, you will get hit by the usmash.

We are in agreement =]

Although, the countering at 0% from grab is very...original, I've never seen it done nor have I tried it. But you're correct how it would only catch someone off guard once then that trick is out of your game.

Hm, well, I think it may be used more than once. See, if they start expecting the counter, they will just out-wait it. If they are expecting you to counter, and they wait, you can just jump away. I've seen counter done after being uthrown in a Youtube match, I don't quite remember who though.

I recall M2K talking about how most people don't really know just how fast Marth can double-jump out of "combos". He mentioned spamming doublejump away, and fairing. I don't think that's applicable to this situation though.

Do tell me the results of your testing.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Will do.

I'll try to play some decent fox mains soon.

 

[Bloodred]

the same thing happens to me in fox matches too. what i try to do is the n air because most of the foxes around here try to catch you with the u air from side and the n air hits them most of the time to give me room to recover but the counter is another option i could try to use to my advantage

 

[Omega_Star]

Funny, I'm really good at fighting Samus with Marth, yet I don't really have any random explicit knowledge on the matter; I just "know" how to do it. I guess check out this video or if you have any specific problems (which is better, cause then we know what you need help with) I might be able to help more.

As far as uthrow to uair goes... in this video of B-Ryan, I noticed that he's able to counter the uair at low percents. My question is: how is he able to pull out the counter so quickly? I always have too much hit stun to do anything.

In response to something previously said, however, I do know that it's never a good idea to DI up on a move that sends you up. Sure, you may be aiming to smash DI the weaker hit of the uair, but what if you mis-time it and accidentally DI the stronger hit? All the easier for him to kill you with.

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

As far as uthrow to uair goes... in this video of B-Ryan, I noticed that he's able to counter the uair at low percents. My question is: how is he able to pull out the counter so quickly? I always have too much hit stun to do anything.

1:32 in that video. Also, 1:44 at a lower percentage. Yep, that's what I'm talking about. I don't have problems doing it... maybe you have to wait for marth's stun animation to finish? Thanks very much for linking to this vid, by the way =]

And lol 1:55 , the fox caught on.

In terms of 0%, I've countered and not been hit. It could just be my Foxes, although they know what they're doing.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

If you claim the fox you're countering against at 0% is good, then theres no reason for me to test it because I'd take your word for it.

Anyway, its a good little thing to know against fox.