How is Pichu better than Mewtwo?

[Chis]

I know Mewtwo is slow and light but with:
A chain grab (down throw)
A spike
Powerful smashes
Good recoveryabilities
Powerful throws
how is it with all this he is still consided worse than Pichu?

If this question belongs somewhere else, my apologies. This is the only place that I deemed suitable for such a question.

 

[MoblinMan]

I think because he has really bad approaching and defensive options. B air's kinda weak. Fair's strong but has really little range, so it'd be hard to pressure a shield without getting shield-grabbed. Up air?

 

[w!zard]

he's not. SBR messed up

mewtwo's pretty **** bad though

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Y'know, below a certain point in the tier list, I don't really think it matters anymore.

In any case, I think it's probably based off of matchups more than anything. Pichu probably just has more good matchups.

And anyway, I'd rather play Mewtwo than Pichu, and I'd rather be playing as the "worst character in the game" than the "second worst character in the game", so it all works out.

 

[GreenKirby]

Probably because Pichu smash attacks can actually do something.

 

[theONEjanitor]

Pichu is better, he's quick, hard to attack, had a great recovery and a couple of really good kill moves and combos.
He's too low on the tier list.
but then again, so is mewtwo.

Mewtwo is in no way the worst charater in this game.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Probably because Pichu smash attacks can actually do something.

Really though, I think Pichu's smashes aren't that great. Sure they're faster than Mewtwo's, but his dsmash has relatively low knockback and sends people behind him, his fsmash probably can be SDI'd out of, and his usmash is pretty hard to land.

Pichu is better, he's quick, hard to attack, had a great recovery and a couple of really good kill moves and combos.
He's too low on the tier list.
but then again, so is mewtwo.

Mewtwo is in no way the worst charater in this game.

Well the thing is, it's hard to justify Mewtwo being better than any other character. He really has a lot of problems, and they add up.

 

[replicate]

this is one of the worst injustices in smash history.

taj almost beat azen with mewtwo.

who the **** makes pichu so good?

 

[w!zard]

this is one of the worst injustices in smash history.

though nothing's comparable with brawl being released

ohh



yeah pichu's quick, but he's light as hell and has NO range. mewtwo has a better recovery, good range, a great WD, a much better projectile, and a good grab game. he's just too big. mewtwo>pichu

 

[dguy6789]

It's an error is all. Mewtwo is better than Pichu, nobody really disputes this.

 

[Kyu Puff]

^LOL yes they do. Pichu > Kirby = Mewtwo

who the **** makes pichu so good?

Chu Dat, KDJ?

yeah pichu's quick, but he's light as hell and has NO range. mewtwo has a better recovery, good range, a great WD, a much better projectile, and a good grab game. he's just too big. mewtwo>pichu

Mewtwo
+some range
+good recovery
+decent grab game (only decent because his range isn't fantastic)
-light
-floaty
-HUGE
-horrible KO potential
-poor aerial mobility

Pichu
+fast ground speed
+good aerial mobility
+good comboing
+chaingrabs fastfallers
+juggles fastfallers
+good recovery
+KO potential
-NO RANGE
-no grab range
-light
-self-damaging

Pichu is bad because he has no range, and dies at low percentages. Mewtwo is bad because he is a huge target, is easily hit by any other character, and thus is easy to kill. Mewtwo really has no strategy vs. campers, he simply gets eaten alive.

 

[Chis]

How does Mewtwo have low KO potential with Fsmash, dsmash, usmash, fair and his throws?

 

[Kyu Puff]

His u-throw is his only good kill move, b-throw is also good vs. lighter characters and can be followed by a b-air edgeguard. Other than that...

A good kill move is not only defined by power, but also how often you can land it. F-smash and d-smash are average in strength, and are slow, laggy, and can't be combo'd into. F-air has no range, and with good DI doesn't kill until _high_ percentages. U-smash is SDI'd out.

I forgot to mention, Pichu has a defensive game, Mewtwo doesn't. By defensive game I'm not only talking about recovery, but also about shield game, spotdodge, roll, and speed/size (in other words, how hard the character is to hit). Mewtwo has a good recovery and a roll. He doesn't have anything else.

 

[quak]

It's an error is all. Mewtwo is better than Pichu, nobody really disputes this.

i do

pichu has gimps with it's aerials on spacies, has a upsmash that kills at much lower percents than mewtwo, and is quicker than mewtwo

people just tend to get really good with mewtwo, and not so much with pichu.

Why?

cause mewtwo is entertaining, pichu (and kirby) are not

ps. mewtwo does beat pichu in that specific matchup, but pichu has more matcher either equal or in favor of him than mewtwo does

 

[dguy6789]

Mewtwo's wavedash, tilts, throws, projectile, recovery. Seems pretty clear to me he's better. People who say m2 can't ko have no idea what they are talking about. I don't really care to argue it though, I've stopped playing this game unfortunately.

 

[w!zard]

ya know what, m2k thinks mewtwo is better

 

[theONEjanitor]

Really though, I think Pichu's smashes aren't that great. Sure they're faster than Mewtwo's, but his dsmash has relatively low knockback and sends people behind him, his fsmash probably can be SDI'd out of, and his usmash is pretty hard to land.

Well the thing is, it's hard to justify Mewtwo being better than any other character. He really has a lot of problems, and they add up.

I don't really think its hard to justify at all.

He has probably the third best recovery in the game. He can chain grab, he has several kill moves which include grabs, which being able to kill from a grab is overpowered in a way, he has a projectile, and his ftilt and downtilt have good range (d-tilt being a combo starter). his flaws are his a big target, he's floaty, his spot dodge is terrible, and doesn't have a lot of approach options (but neither do any low tier characters). he has wayyyyy more good thigns going for him than several of the bottom tier characters

take a character like Zelda, whose whole game revolves around landing fair or bair, has a dumb recovery, no combos/chains, is suuuuper slllowwww in every aspect of her game besides the fair and bair...there's no question mewtwo is better than zelda.

Take Kirby, who's recovery is good, but beyond that, he has virtually nothing going for him whatsoever. decent range on tilts, but all his kill moves are laggy and have no set ups. Mewtwo is twice as good as Kirby.

 

[dankblak3]

^^^^^ agree

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Okay, fine, I can agree with Kirby being worse, but Zelda... ehhh... I'm gonna call shenanigans on that.

 

[The Immortal Sir NZ]

Well, it could be because everyone knows mewtwo pwns in real pokemon and they fear his almighty power so they rank him lowest so "normal" players won't play as him.

Actually, i really have no idea, i think he deserves to be a few spots higher on the tier list, above gannondorf and jiggly too. Also, most people just think he sucks because they play as him once, find that he is a bit awkward to play as, and write him off as the worst player in the game.

also, I kind of like the feeling when i play new guys at my school in FFAs and they say "who is playing Mewtwo, I'm going to pwn them because mewtwo sucks" and then THEY are the ones that get pwned. sorry, just random tangent right there

 

[w!zard]

you're crazy

 

[Chis]

you're crazy

We're all a little bit crazy, AREN'T WE?

 

[quak]

holy ****

mewtwo is the worst character in the game

he's huge, he's ridiculously light, and has nothing to come close to compensating for those 2 major faults

mewtwo isn't good, people make him look good

 

[Speedsk8er]

holy ****

mewtwo is the worst character in the game

he's huge, he's ridiculously light, and has nothing to come close to compensating for those 2 major faults

mewtwo isn't good, people make him look good

Mewtwo makes himself look good.

He's like that pretty girl with a horrible personality. D:

 

[DTKPch]

Hey, as long as my Mewtwo looks awesome, who cares if I win right?

 

[Taj278]

Mewtwo is better than Pichu, Kirby, Ness, and Bowser. I won't explain why unless you REALLY want me to.

 

[KirbyKaze]

i really want you to.

(not sarcasm, i really want to know because i've always thought boozer > mewtwo and ness > mewtwo and this new movement of ness being worse than boozer AND mewtwo intrigues me)

Take Kirby, who's recovery is good, but beyond that, he has virtually nothing going for him whatsoever. decent range on tilts, but all his kill moves are laggy and have no set ups. Mewtwo is twice as good as Kirby.

kirby's recovery is terrible.

 

[The Immortal Sir NZ]

^last time i checked, Mewtwo can't do 5 or so jumps like Kirby can.
but still, we are a little bit biased here we are the MEWTWO board after all, lets just think about that for a second, so if Taj wants to give us real proof that Mewtwo is better, lets hear it and end this argument. And while we're at it, lets write to the official tier list makers and have them rewrite it because of this topic.

*I don't actually think we are going to do that though are we?*:embarrass

 

[w!zard]

lol super jump + teleport >>> 5 horrible jumps

 

[Speedsk8er]

^last time i checked, Mewtwo can't do 5 or so jumps like Kirby can.

Kirby has 5 jumps, each one getting shorter than the last with horrible aerial mobility and a slow, easily punished Up-B

Yeah, his recovery is terrible.



And Taj, could you please explain this? please?

 

[KirbyKaze]

kirby's recovery is probably one of the worst in the game, his collective five jumps get less height than falco's full jump + double jump so none of this "oh if he has his jumps he's okay" business odds are he'll be down 2-3 making it close to the stage and that leaves him with his remaining 2-3 which are horrible and give no distance in any direction. he already gets no horizontal distance as it is, kirby is awful.

if your opponent isn't ******** kirby dies if he's off the stage (unless it's basically mute city, brinstar, or you hack for barrel on kongo64) at any percent, to any character, even someone awful like pichu, it doesn't matter if you tech walljump into up+b instantly or do some amazingly epic life-saving trick it won't work, kirby is terrible.

 

[Tomato Kirby]

I have no problem saying Mewtwo has better recovery or that Kirby is possibly the worst character in the game; although this:

...if your opponent isn't ******** kirby dies if he's off the stage (unless it's basically mute city, brinstar, or you hack for barrel on kongo64) at any percent, to any character, even someone awful like pichu...

...is an overstatement. If you think for a moment, there are several other characters with worse, predictable recovery. Roy, Dr. Mario, Gannondorf, etc. Well, at least Kirby is good at intercepting recoveries.

Kirby has average recovery; he is able to launch aerial attacks and Inhale while recovering. Kirby can also fast-fall his jump for unpredicatability. His Final Cutter has excellent range and has a good air-dodge distance Kirby CAN make a better recovery than you give him.

Try looking at the recoveries in this match: KirbyKid(Kirby) vs. Bluezaft(Marth)1 6-26-07. A good idea of what someone can expect against Kirby.

Also, you forgot to mention Rainbow Cruise on that off-stage rant...

...

Low-tier arguements are awesome .

 

[KirbyKaze]

Kirby recovering low is basically dead. I don't get why people don't just ledgehop an aerial and watch Kirby die but whatever. His final cutter is slow, you can basically wait for the startup and hit him at the vertex because there's no hitbox. If he air-dodges onto the stage or something I don't know, just hit him off again? Kirby's up+b is slow, if he does it he dies, if he air-dodges you should be able to react to him and at the very least hit him off again.

Kirby recovering high has a chance of making it athough the fact that he moves slowly in the air and predictably and his moves that cover him below him are horribly weak, ccable, and low priority make him die a lot.

Your vid had several chances where the Marth could have gimped Kirby by just jumping at him with a weak Fair when Kirby was offstage about four times. Why didn't he? I don't know. It was a friendly anyways, and friendlies are always the best measure of a character's relative abilities.

Doctor Mario has pills to protect him recovering high. And a cape. Not only that but Doc is heavier so he's less likely to be sent off the stage far if you DI. He also comes with a faster up+b that has some invincibility tacked into it and a tornado. He's still a terrible recovery, but truthfully I think they're both completely screwed recovering low if the opponent is any good at all. And I do think recovering high Doc probably has an edge. Ganon, Falcon, Falco, and Roy I'll give you though; their recoveries are pretty terrible.

Single IC is also probably worse recovery or about as bad as Kirby, I think.

 

[Fenrir]

Also, Dr. Mario has the Amazing Magnet Hands™, which allow him to warp to the edge even when he's far beyond being physically able to grab it.

 

[KirbyKaze]

truthfully, while you do make a good point about his absurdly amazing sweetspot range on his up+B, i find it never comes up. when he tries to sweetspot i find doc just gets baired or sex kicked and then dies and ****'s lame but oh well.

then again if we're willing to argue that kirby's up+b hitbox is big i guess we're really digging deep for anything remotely useful as a point so sure, why not. sweetspot range is ridiculous. +1 for doc.

 

[Fenrir]

Maybe I just suck at intercepting Doc's recovery, then, as I've lost count of the times where an attack should have hit him but didn't because he warp-grabbed the ledge and gained invincibility frames.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Personally it sounds like you're edgeguarding Doc passively. That is, you're standing on the edge and waiting for him to come to it and then his sweetspot beats it. If you're ledgehopping an aerial, you're probably doing it too soon or something... I've always found ledgehopped aerials (if you preserved invincibility) **** his up+b but if it's not working I really have no idea why it isn't.

 

[Fenrir]

That's likely because I normally use Mewtwo, whose aerials are outprioritized by Doc's Up-B. I know if I used Marth or whatever I'd not have that problem at all. <_<

 

[KirbyKaze]

it all makes sense now.

 

[Bowser King]

I agree. I think Mewtwo is better then Pichu.
His KO's are decent and he has good throws. IMO, Mewtwo is an overall better character.