Q&A How does one cure motion sickness? - Cloud Q&A Thread

[Jink8]

Is Nair a good approach option? Is there too much lag on nair? Is Fair any useful?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Is Nair a good approach option? Is there too much lag on nair? Is Fair any useful?

I use Nair as an approach option if its any consolation. Its wide range, speed and the fact that it auto cancels from a SH makes it hard to punish if spaced properly.

I haven't used Fair all that much tbh, but I hear that it has great Shield stun so if you space it properly you can get away with hitting the opponents shield with it.

 

[KittyKyat]

I got particularly crushed on FG earlier and I'm not sure what my mistakes were, anyone mind fighting me and telling me what I'm doing wrong with my Cloud?

 

[FightingPolygon]

How to land AC Dair and FF Uair pls

 

[HFlash]

How to land AC Dair and FF Uair pls

Watch Izaw's Cloud video. Very indepth, and answers both questions. Also, fair spaced well on shield unless perfect shielded is hard to punish. I like to mix it up when I expect my opponent to air dodge or spot dodge.

 

[Mechaglacier]

I'm asking on behalf of a very rude user. He wants to know how cloud does against "Villager, Wii fit trainer, Duck Hunt, Bowser Jr., and Palutena."

 

[FightingPolygon]

How do I consistently Short-hop Fast Fall Uair without accidentally doing Jump Cancel Up Smash?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

How do I consistently Short-hop Fast Fall Uair without accidentally doing Jump Cancel Up Smash?

You literally just have to do the inputs more slowly than you are now. If you do it too quickly, it will come out as JC Up Smash.

 

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

What are the best setups into Finishing Touch?

Currently, what I do is I do a Fast Fall U-air into a Finishing Touch, I just want to know about any more setups.

 

[PapaJ]

What are the best setups into Finishing Touch?

Currently, what I do is I do a Fast Fall U-air into a Finishing Touch, I just want to know about any more setups.

AC Dair > FT and FF Uair seems to be the only reliable true combos. If they miss techs during nairs then you could potentially land one but that's not guaranteed. You could also attempt a footstool and immediate AC Dair. The only difference being since they in footstool tumble they can't tech out of it but geting the footstool, and intentionally using it, is its own problem.

Other then that you can do a potential ledge guard with it since it hits in front and in back of cloud. You can do a Uair FF it and FT if they roll. You can also ledge trump and go to the edge and use it, they are stuck for about 20 frames when they regrab the ledge and there are no iframes.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I honestly believe I am too trigger-happy with Limit Blade Beam and Climhazzard. How do I get around this?

What do you normally save your limit for?

 

[PapaJ]

I honestly believe I am too trigger-happy with Limit Blade Beam and Climhazzard. How do I get around this?

What do you normally save your limit for?

The thing is once you get limit you effectively lose access to your specials since you get one shot at a buffed special. Ill list my uses here

At low percents:
At low percents, non killing percents, my go to move is LB cross slash. Comes out frame 10 and has Iframes starting on frame six. Does twenty six damage and overall is pretty safe. If I feel like I can't land it then Ill move over to Limit break blade beam to at least get 19 damage and prepare my next limit for the kill

At mid percents:
This is where FT might start killing. From here I know none of other Clouds LB's will kill so I can choose to go for a FT kill or rack more damage with specials. You can't go wrong with other just try to pick the best option based on your opponent.

High percents:
This is where any LB will kill, it might depends on stage control. From here I tend to forgo FT as LB Cross Slash will get the job done. Something you can do is ledge trump an opponent get back to the stage and, if they go for a regrab, launch LB Blade Beam. Since they regrabbed they have about 20 frames where they can't get Iframes and they are so close to the Blast Zone it should Kill. Furthermore, if you get an uair/uthrow you could bait an airdoge and hit them with LB Climhazzard. The reason why I offer this as a KO option is because I feel like no one would expect a Cloud to burn his limit on a Climhazzard onstage.

So basically
LB Cross slash: Good for stuffing moves, damage racking, killing, safe(ish) option.
LB Blade Beam: Good for reading rolls, punish attacks, damage racking, killing near the ledge or offstage, also safe(ish) if spaced right and on shield.
LB Climhazzard: Recovery and a surprise KO
FT: A way to kill at mid percents if you get a read or a combo. Useless otherwise. I guess you could use it as an option to hit both sides of you when the opponent is on ledge and if you read a neutral get up vs a roll but I wouldn't bet on that

This is also a bit character dependent but im sure you'll get the hang of it.

Edit: Spelling
Edit2: Something that you can use limit for is going more offensive. Obviously we get a lower jumps and an increased run/walk speed. You can use this for going more offstage since you're guaranteed to come back with an LB Climhazzard. If you know where you can recover with LB jumps you can keep the LB for pressure as well if you go offstage.

 

[Kurodyne]

I'm having trouble against Palutena and Lucina.

Lucina I'm not exactly sure what my problem is, but Palutena's jab just keeps getting me over and over and I can't find a way around it.

 

[Jenna Zant]

I'm having some trouble with the Pika vs Cloud matchup. What should I do when Cloud charges his limit break? Usually I just wait until he finishes and then I punish their approach, but I feel this isn't the best way.

 

[PapaJ]

I'm having trouble against Palutena and Lucina.

Lucina I'm not exactly sure what my problem is, but Palutena's jab just keeps getting me over and over and I can't find a way around it.

Well, seeing as how we can outpoke and outaerial Luciana we shouldn't have a problem. Do you have any matches you can upload? I'd be a waste of time unless I see how you play.

 

[HFlash]

I'm having some trouble with the Pika vs Cloud matchup. What should I do when Cloud charges his limit break? Usually I just wait until he finishes and then I punish their approach, but I feel this isn't the best way.

Learn to gimp him. Cloud has a strong neutral so it will be hard to get in on him but once you do, you should be able to abuse his lackluster recovery.

 

[KittyKyat]

How do I wanna use SH Nair? Like as an option, when should I use it.

 

[GHNeko]

Anyone got any tips for Just Frame Fair?

 

[JesterJaded]

So as a Toon Link and Lucas player, I've had some issues keeping rushdown players / high mobility characters (Sheik, Falcon, Fox, Sonic, Greninja, etc.) in check and have been looking to pick up a third character to cover those matchups. I know Cloud is still relatively new, but those giant disjoints and decent autocancels show promise to me. Would anyone here say he's worth picking up to counter pick against those characters?

 

[_Nives_]

Hello how do you punish the 2 frame window when the opponent try to recover ?

 

[HFlash]

Ok so I am by no means an expert, but since no one had answered anything and there are a number of questions over the past few days, I will try to answer my best:

How do I wanna use SH Nair? Like as an option, when should I use it.

I like it as a move to use in the neutral alot. Its very safe, covers both sides of you, and can lead into a positive situation.

Anyone got any tips for Just Frame Fair?

If you mean frame cancelled, just do the fair so that it's animation is done before you hit the ground. If you haven't checked out Izaw's Cloud guide, I can give you the link to it.

So as a Toon Link and Lucas player, I've had some issues keeping rushdown players / high mobility characters (Sheik, Falcon, Fox, Sonic, Greninja, etc.) in check and have been looking to pick up a third character to cover those matchups. I know Cloud is still relatively new, but those giant disjoints and decent autocancels show promise to me. Would anyone here say he's worth picking up to counter pick against those characters?

To be honest, Tink has the tools to play those kind of characters. The best Tinks I've played against (including one of my main training partners) has the ability to play both offensively and defensively. It's funny that I recently thought of this, and then you have probably the best Tink in the world atm, Hyuga, showing exactly this in his Tink play. I recommend looking him up. As far as a good secondary, I don't recommend Cloud. We may not have the best MU vs Shiek, and more importantly, to get the most out of him, you have to get LB cancelling down which is easier said than done. You are better off picking up Mario, who aside from jump cancelled U smash, requires little to no dedication to picking up and playing well. He covers those MUs and is easy to use.

Hello how do you punish the 2 frame window when the opponent try to recover ?

LB Cross Slash or Falling down Climhazzard.

Let me know if you guys have any other questions

 

[Steve.Stone]

Hey so if you use a suicide down slash of Climhazard and both you and your opponent die at the same time, what would be the official tournament ruling? Cause I know it's supposed to be whoever initiated the attack wins but sometimes I do it and we die at the exact same time going into sudden death, sometimes my opponent dies first immediately followed by me, sometimes I die first immediately followed by my opponent.

 

[Rubiss]

Usually whoever the game said won, but it varies on tournament. I've never seen a tournament not go with what the game said.

 

[JesterJaded]

To be honest, Tink has the tools to play those kind of characters. The best Tinks I've played against (including one of my main training partners) has the ability to play both offensively and defensively. It's funny that I recently thought of this, and then you have probably the best Tink in the world atm, Hyuga, showing exactly this in his Tink play. I recommend looking him up.

I've seen some of Hyuga's and Zan's matches, and I can only wish my Tink were half as good as theirs lol. I'll keep at it though because it's the character I feel most comfortable playing. It's just that I feel like my projectiles are being counter played once my opponents familiarize themselves with my options and start wrecking me in the midrange, and rushdown characters are able to do this the easiest. My Lucas has the frame data to do something about it with Dtilt / jab but has bad disadvantage, and Tink's CQC is lackluster, so I'd like a third character or possibly drop one of the two to handle rushdowns once they start optimizing their counterplay.

As far as a good secondary, I don't recommend Cloud. We may not have the best MU vs Shiek, and more importantly, to get the most out of him, you have to get LB cancelling down which is easier said than done. You are better off picking up Mario, who aside from jump cancelled U smash, requires little to no dedication to picking up and playing well. He covers those MUs and is easy to use.

Is that so? I've heard of the edgeguarding Sheiks used against Cloud in G3 but haven't actually seen it yet. I've wanted to use a sword character with good disjoints and the range to keep opponents at bay when this game came out since Marty was my favorite in Melee, but the swords people were lackluster to me, especially how underwhelming Marth is now. Cloud's looked pretty smooth though from what I've seen so far.

If not Cloud, I don't really enjoy Mario too much for some reason. It night be the range on his normals, idk. What about Diddy? I've heard he has a decent matchup against Sheik, and Zero's been consistently beating them with the character even after the nerfs. His neutral looks pretty solid to me.

 

[OceloT42]

Can Cloud make the Normal and Reversed Hyrule Jump with Limit Climhazzard? Could someone post a video if possible?
I only have a 3DS ;_;

 

[SapphSabre777]

I have a question in regards to match-ups that Cloud has over a set of characters. I understand that it is a huge risk to take the advice given early; however, I must know for the sake of possibly picking him as a secondary.

What are his MUs like against Luigi, Sonic, and Meta Knight? Are they doable (very slightly disadvantageous, but not to the point where it is useless to pick this character ), even, or advantageous? I would like to know and, if it isn't too much, some explanation as to why. Thank you very much.

 

[Kora]

As a Ike & potential Cloud main, how do I adapt to cloud after playing Ike for so long? I can't seem to perform as well with cloud compared to Ike, and would like some tips to help me out.

 

[OceloT42]

As a Ike & potential Cloud main, how do I adapt to cloud after playing Ike for so long? I can't seem to perform as well with cloud compared to Ike, and would like some tips to help me out.

go to customs and put speed and jump boosts for Ike. You now have a cloud prototype.
I was utter garbage with Ike but now I'm a cloud main. He's like Spike Ike. The Ike I never had.
You'll know what I mean.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I'm having trouble against Palutena and Lucina.

Lucina I'm not exactly sure what my problem is, but Palutena's jab just keeps getting me over and over and I can't find a way around it.

Palutena is kind of stupid in this MU. Her Uair completely outranges your Dair. This not only makes your entire landing game suffer, but it doubles as a kill option as well.

This is what I got for being too stubborn to just go Ike on him.

 

[Flubz]

I noticed an interesting little thing while labbing Cloud today, that involves the "press A+B to do a smash" mechanic.

Since you can cancel Coud's Limit Break charging animation by pressing B, you can combine the Limit Break charge cancel with the A+B Fsmash to cancel the Limit Break charging animation directly into any Smash.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Who the best Clouds currently to watch to acquire an understanding of playing as the character?

Except Komorokiri. Already been religiously watching him lol. Thanks!

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I made a thread, but it might just be better answered here. What are Cloud's best out-of-shield options?

I tend to DTilt reflexively, but against Shulk, that's asking for a free punish.

 

[KittyKyat]

I made a thread, but it might just be better answered here. What are Cloud's best out-of-shield options?

I tend to DTilt reflexively, but against Shulk, that's asking for a free punish.

Climhazzard and LB Climhazzard are gud too

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Climhazzard and LB Climhazzard are gud too

Climhazzard is super risky due to endlag if the opponent autocancels and blocks it.

 

[Player -0]

Does anyone know if finishing touch hits if done asap out of a footstool? For both grounded and aerial.

 

[TheSilentAmp]

Does anyone know if finishing touch hits if done asap out of a footstool? For both grounded and aerial.

The startup frames are way too high for it to instantly hit out of footstool mid-air.

However, being that it's impossible to tech out of a footstool, if you footstool them REALLY close to the ground, you might be able to hit FT off of that, since it does hit just slightly under him. Don't quote me on this though.

 

[Player -0]

Whenever I get my hands on the game again I'll try it

 

[420quickscoper]

Aren't all of Cloud's aerials safe on shield?

 

[Jink8]

Anyone got a good guide for Cloud around here? Video or not?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Aren't all of Cloud's aerials safe on shield?

In my experience they all are except the occasional accidental SH Dair.

Anyone got a good guide for Cloud around here? Video or not?