How do I convince my friend that looking at Smash info isn't cheating

[mastermoo420]

Yeah, I'd recommend picking up Sheik and just ****** the hell out of your friend. Sheik has an amazingly low learning curve, and her d-throw CG should apply to most, if not all, low tiers. As for the higher tiers, d-throw CG will definitely work on him if he uses Marth (he's not going to DI properly or anything or know how to get out), d-throw will work on all the other top tier except you'll probably have to techchase or just shield as he does the obvious get-up attack.

Or just f-tilt him to death because he's not going to know what to do. When my friend went Sheik when I used to be an IC main and I sucked, he trapped me in f-tilt > f-tilt > f-tilt > f-tilt > f-tilt > etc. because I was, like, WTF?

Yeah, Sheik has a low learning curve, and can easily win against most low level players.

 

[Wobbles]

Is it cheating to get a coach to give you advice on your form in basketball/baseball/soccer/golf/whatever?

Is it cheating on an algebra test to use the arithmetic somebody else taught you years before?

The interesting part of the game is what happens AFTER you've learned its mechanics. The discovery process is pretty cool, the integration process is great, but it's all for the sake of seeing yourself improve and having a deeper and more complex gaming experience as a result. It's not quite the same as a strategy guide, where finding an object is equal to obtaining it, so merely by reading you've obtained a massive advantage. In Smash, your process of "unlocking" involves practice and integration.

 

[Deleted member]

Removed by Moderator

 

[mastermoo420]

I think Wobbles has a good point (that has been kinda mentioned before). You might want to ask your friend what the hell he's doing in school if he thinks it's "cheating" to learn from people have who have come before him.

 

[zluvsanime]

I have been doing that for things like wavedashing and teching/DI, and he just either ignores me completely(in the case of WDing,) or incorporates it into his play after a b***h of a long time. I am just trying to make it so I don't have to learn his favorite characters just to get a good practice partner. Also he won't even listen to me or try on things like l-canceling or anything more advanced.

its not that i didnt want advice on how to play, its that smug douche bag was berating on my insufficient skill after only playing the game on one other occasion, the **** face is a laud mouthed, gloating, smug, cocky, little *******; which is why i violent him any chance i get, which is also why he flipped **** when i kicked his *** with mew two

 

[zluvsanime]

I think Wobbles has a good point (that has been kinda mentioned before). You might want to ask your friend what the hell he's doing in school if he thinks it's "cheating" to learn from people have who have come before him.

real life has consequences, gaming does not, it is stupid and annoying to cheat at something that has no bearing in life

 

[Deleted member]

Removed by Moderator

 

[Velox]

real life has consequences, gaming does not, it is stupid and annoying to cheat at something that has no bearing in life

so wait, what?... You would admit that you're cheating at real life then? wtf does that even mean...

 

[GreatRit]

I have a friend, who is basically the only person I can play with at the moment, and I have been trying to get him to go online and take a look at the community so that he can get better(right now he is just slightly worse than me, and I want him to be better so that I can continue to improve). He insists that he thinks it is cheating, in the same way that looking at a strategy guide for a different kind of game is cheating. I have tried to change his mind, but have been unsuccessful as of yet. Does anyone have some suggestions?

fail.
It's like this: You want to go on a roadtrip, but you don't know where. You don't want to find out where you're going because you think it's cheating. Obv if you want to get a "better" look on things, you're going to have to "cheat"

 

[Jim Morrison]

Yeah, I'd recommend picking up Sheik and just ****** the hell out of your friend. Sheik has an amazingly low learning curve, and her d-throw CG should apply to most, if not all, low tiers. As for the higher tiers, d-throw CG will definitely work on him if he uses Marth (he's not going to DI properly or anything or know how to get out), d-throw will work on all the other top tier except you'll probably have to techchase or just shield as he does the obvious get-up attack.

rofl the point is not to **** him, he'll only beat himself up on it and say you use cheap tactics you learned from here, and he'll never want to play cheap like you.

You gotta pick Falcon and do flashy and cool ****, while also winning.

 

[mastermoo420]

Oh man, this just got real.

*Subscribes*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUH3JQjcweM

@Santo: I guess you're right, lol. Falcon is just the most **** character when... it's ****. >_>

@GreatRit: You just misunderstood what I said. I said that LEARNING in school would be "cheating" because you're taking information from people who have come before you.

Plus, if you insist that any action you do whatsoever has absolutely NO consequence, you best be trippin' or something mang because yeah mang.

.... homie.

 

[Jim Morrison]

its not that i didnt want advice on how to play, its that smug douche bag was berating on my insufficient skill after only playing the game on one other occasion, the **** face is a laud mouthed, gloating, smug, cocky, little *******; which is why i violent him any chance i get, which is also why he flipped **** when i kicked his *** with mew two

 

[Malart]

its not that i didnt want advice on how to play, its that smug douche bag was berating on my insufficient skill after only playing the game on one other occasion, the **** face is a laud mouthed, gloating, smug, cocky, little *******; which is why i violent him any chance i get, which is also why he flipped **** when i kicked his *** with mew two

In case you couldn't tell, my friend lol

 

[Malart]

and YES it IS that you didn't want advice on how to play... that's when you are supposed to TAKE advice, is when you haven't played the game much. You wouldn't take advice even from ME, when I wasn't berating you at all. And berating or not, he was bringing up good points as to why you might want to do this particular thing, and you just ignored him. Don't try to defend it dude, there's nothing wrong with taking advice, which is exactly what this forum is, and is how the guides are worded(e.g. In this situation, _____>_____ could be effective if the opponent doesn't DI out of it).

 

[Jim Morrison]

Eh yea, how big are the chances now that this thread was read by your thread that he'll actually still want to play?

 

[THeDarKnesS]

thing is, he is wanting to take his copy back, saying that he 'needs' to get better, and if I were to show him everything on here by learning it myself and showing him firsthand, he might actually incorporate it, I was just hoping that someone out there had met someone like that and changed their mind, thus perhaps knowing a different approach... i guess not though heh. and I live in Maine, near a college, so I'm sure there are smash clubs around, I just can't afford transportation to any game stores... one of my other friends is going to be going to the college this coming semester, so I'm gonna see if he knows anyone, but till then, I have no one but this friend.

Let him take his copy back. Hopefully, he will "cheat" in secret and get better than you. When he returns you should have a challenge LOL.

Or

Steal his copy by losing it somewhere.....somehow.

 

[THeDarKnesS]

its not that i didnt want advice on how to play, its that smug douche bag was berating on my insufficient skill after only playing the game on one other occasion, the **** face is a laud mouthed, gloating, smug, cocky, little *******; which is why i violent him any chance i get, which is also why he flipped **** when i kicked his *** with mew two

How could you be so new, and know how bad Mewtwo is?

Troll thread anyone.....?

 

[Geist]

Nah mewtwo always sucked.

By the way this thread is hilarious

 

[Malart]

@THeDarKnesS: He has been told how bad mewtwo is many a time by friends.
@Santo: He will still play, he's not gonna quit because of this. I didn't think he would, which is why I linked him here, as I'd rather let him see others opinions rather than just using their arguments myself.

 

[GREENTHUMB]

why don't you just beat his *** using advanced techs? If he is competitive and wants to win he will realize very soon he needs to do the same if wants to stand a chance.

Don't force him to play the game your way, just beat his *** til he learns.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

oh no my sister's kity wants post.

No you guys are desrcibleing all the wrong things. this like trying to learn new words without Asking or using any source of info. this is as parrel to smash as it gets if no one shows you how your blind and you think your doing it right are you sure that's a new word or is it something you made up? I never DD as anyone in this game it simply NEVER happens I've taken knowledge from both DDing and WDing and slaped them together however it is impossible to tell WTF is going on with my marth because it looks like he is moonwalking.

If you didn't know about WDing you think i'm simply DDing which is don't I may WD backwards into F-smash and totally throw you off if you don't ask your going to think i'm cheating or something because of that uber fast looking moonwalk to pivt sounds unGodly hard but I can do it all day.

without getting info as ice climbers and only using that info which you can find you can't do anything YOU have you read a lot to learn everything as them they are an extremely hard charcter to play as it's like you have to read and take classes to learn how to fly an airplane yopu can't steal one and start flying around like the ice climbers you will crash and burn. Without advanced techs as ice climbers it's impossible to win they simply can't you don't know what to do and it's impossible to learn verything without help when I try to learn new things by myself for ice climbers or pichu it normally takes me a hour or 2 to get a good idea if it might work or not and to test it out WITHOUT useing it.

So reading a statement or 2 you can learn 2 hours worth of work look at PEEF's nerd data in the ice climbers boardsknowing you can't freeze at insert percent here is useful to know at times and my be useful in the future maybe if he tested more he could find the likly hood of it happening at higher percents maybe there is a point it work 50% and that could be a up-air or something to death. that would take hours and hours of careful testing to help you a little.

 

[zluvsanime]

How could you be so new, and know how bad Mewtwo is?

Troll thread anyone.....?

kill your face, im not new, i have played it from 64. the only difference being i made the change from playing as a party game to playing competitively because my friends wanted a "strong" opponent, when i first started facing malart i considered edge hogging to be a cheap tactic. and nothing annoys me more then people think im trolling when im not, you giant sack of giant fairy ****** **** filled with magic ****** flakes

 

[booshk]

i smell troll...
but if not.. just get a ranked player in your region to 4 stock him like 10 times in a row and he'll realize what he's missing out on.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Fun fact most charcters have more options to recover than others have to edge gaurd them pichu has over 256 options to use and I can still tech marth's f-smash and pichu is INSANELY hard to tech with. if you play as falco you have like 8 options not counting how you fall because there are so many mindgame options there. your 2nd jump/when you use it counts for 3 options to use or not and when, wall jump, side-B edge/non edge plus shorter means 4 options and the shine in very nice to use so it destroys off stage edge gaurd that's like what 16 not counting teching.

marth has f-smash, hold edge, fair, d-tilt, and dair. theycan't cover EVERY option it's impossible even the best players can't beat out all of falco's options of his bad recovery.

Also you didn't try doing different things with people so clearly your close minded you can prove it to your self if you disargee your in Denial

http://www.essortment.com/all/stagesofgri_rvkg.htm

Stop lieing to yourself. You are ONLy limiting yourself but without pride that anyone will ever care about this isn't like maining a bootom tier list is like taking a brick to your head so you lose knowledge to make things fair for them and you forget who to tech.

Yuo have countless optuions most of the time that aren't gay/cheap I play as pichu I have timed out people on KJ64 I camp and etc. however I never chain throw due to pride many people would say i'm dumb for not doing it when I could seriously F*** up some space animals. In that way we are the same self limiting when no one cares.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Sounds you're not willing to try this competatively.

 

[Theftz22]

TROLL

Also, you are friends?? LOL

Well, looks like you got him on the competitive scene anyway.

 

[zluvsanime]

i smell troll...
but if not.. just get a ranked player in your region to 4 stock him like 10 times in a row and he'll realize what he's missing out on.

yes because trouncing my *** is a great way to get me to play a game that i dislike playing competitively, its not like that would frustrate me and make me not want to play.... nope it wouldnt do anything like that at all

 

[Jim Morrison]

Man then bugger off, tbh, instead of calling everyone out. You don't like playing it competatively.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

@ICG:marth has more edgegaurding options then that... most of which cover more than one of falcos recovery options.

@OP:look for other ppl to play

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Yes marth does also if falco trys to asweetspot and marth f-smashs and falco tech falco recoversto edge if marth f-smashes falco techs again till marth messes up.


Also I wish he called me out.

 

[Strong Badam]

kill your face, im not new, i have played it from 64. the only difference being i made the change from playing as a party game to playing competitively because my friends wanted a "strong" opponent, when i first started facing malart i considered edge hogging to be a cheap tactic. and nothing annoys me more then people think im trolling when im not, you giant sack of giant fairy ****** **** filled with magic ****** flakes

wow, you present yourself as really immature. if you don't want to play competitively then just tell your friend that. you don't need to lie to yourself with this "looking up information to help me know what to do to improve is cheating" bull****. maybe you're perfectly comfortable playing casually and your friend shouldn't try to force you into competitive play, that's fine, let him know. but the way you present yourself and act, you look fairly silly.
for the record, the game gives you a point bonus when you edgehog, and the in-game How to Play video encourages edgeguarding.

 

[Deleted member]

Removed by Moderator

 

[zluvsanime]

*Microwaves Popcorn*

*Chews* *Chews* *Chews*

OP: Find people who want to play melee competitively. Your friend clearly doesn't want to play with ATs at all, and that's his decision. Although it's not a good one in terms of getting better, I think he prefers just playing the game as opposed to getting better.

zluvsanime: I never thought I'd say this to anyone, but I think Bawrl is the right game for you. You'd enjoy it (seriously).

i do prefer playing brawl more then i enjoy playing melee, however it is a lot easier to swallow my displeasure and simply get better at melee then it is to get malart to play a few party matches.

@strong_bad: i will be the first one to tell you that if maturity is what you are looking for then im not the one you want to go to, however i dont think its fair to call me immature and silly for having the opinions that i do. under no circumstances have i ever said that my friends were cheating for looking up ats on smash forums. i have always felt that when i look up information on a game that i wasnt playing it with my own skill, rather i was playing with the skills of the player who posted the information. it is a thought that i have had throughout my gaming history, it is very hard to feel otherwise

 

[Grim Tuesday]

He wasn't calling you immature because of your opinions, he was calling you immature because of this:

yes because trouncing my *** is a great way to get me to play a game that i dislike playing competitively, its not like that would frustrate me and make me not want to play.... nope it wouldnt do anything like that at all

Quitting a game because you lost is immature.

kill your face, im not new, i have played it from 64. the only difference being i made the change from playing as a party game to playing competitively because my friends wanted a "strong" opponent, when i first started facing malart i considered edge hogging to be a cheap tactic. and nothing annoys me more then people think im trolling when im not, you giant sack of giant fairy ****** **** filled with magic ****** flakes

Firstly, that ridiculous insult at the end was immature.
Second, the definition of 'Competitive' is "Of, involving, or determined by competition". If you are playing competitive, it is immature to feel a false sense of pride at not using "cheap tactics". The whole point of Competition is the fun you get from winning at a high level, including "cheap tactics".

Not to mention that in NO WAY is edge-hogging cheap. At all.

real life has consequences, gaming does not, it is stupid and annoying to cheat at something that has no bearing in life

This says your immature because, well, it ISN'T CHEATING. As many have said before, if you count obtaining information from someone else as cheating, every single action you have ever done and ever will do in life is cheat. Cheating just means to break the rules, tell me what rules you are breaking by getting information.

its not that i didnt want advice on how to play, its that smug douche bag was berating on my insufficient skill after only playing the game on one other occasion, the **** face is a laud mouthed, gloating, smug, cocky, little *******; which is why i violent him any chance i get, which is also why he flipped **** when i kicked his *** with mew two

"Smug", "douche bag", "**** face", "loud-mouthed", "gloating", "smug", "cocky", "little *******".

Yeah, cause swearing profusely at your friend over a video game is definitely mature.

...How old are you anyway...?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Grimtuesday gimped you like a falco recovering to high lands into a falcon punch.

Also why do you care about strongbads veiws? If he can't call you immature because you insult people when you could answer his question it's very hard to argee with you. Your only trapping yourself into a corner.

Also I have a question are you perfect? If so yes you don't need advice and we should be asking you, also if your perfect we should all aim to be like you and insult each other so clearly you aren't oerfect because someone smarter wouldn't be forced to insult them like a 8 year old. But if i'm wrong please teach me the sheik vs pichu match-up and how to punish right?

All pichu players struggle with it take pity on us and help us.

 

[Strong Badam]

@strong_bad: i will be the first one to tell you that if maturity is what you are looking for then im not the one you want to go to, however i dont think its fair to call me immature and silly for having the opinions that i do.

I'm not calling you immature or silly simply because of your opinion (although I do disagree, it'd be quite ironic for me to call you immature because you opinion is not the same as mine). It's more how you express it. For example:

and nothing annoys me more then people think im trolling when im not, you giant sack of giant fairy ****** **** filled with magic ****** flakes

lol. Moving on...

i have always felt that when i look up information on a game that i wasnt playing it with my own skill, rather i was playing with the skills of the player who posted the information. it is a thought that i have had throughout my gaming history, it is very hard to feel otherwise

I'm not going to try to force competitive play/a competitive mindset on you, however I'll debate against this point.
While I can't exactly say that what you feel is wrong, since that'd be quite ridiculous, I'll say that most of the first sentence is wrong. If a player posts information on the Internet, and someone reads it, the player's skill does not suddenly transfer to the reader. It is up to the reader to understand the information, learn it, practice it, and apply it. In this, the reader gains skill by earning it, not by any form of "cheating." In fact, the reader may in actuality be a better player than the player who posted the information. This happens often in the community.
Do keep in mind that simply by reading/looking up information, it isn't suddenly and magically implemented into your playing. It is up to you to understand, learn, and apply the information before it can have any bearing on your performance.

In and of itself, your argument is flawed. You can of course continue to play the game casually; that's your choice and no one can take that away. Just please stop lying to yourself and your friend with the idea that looking up information is cheating... just accept that it's illogical. The argument that "I'm perfectly comfortable playing how I do now and don't want to change" is perfectly valid, logical, and impossible to argue against, so if you feel like playing casually then use it instead of the bull**** cheating idea.

 

[Jonas]

i have always felt that when i look up information on a game that i wasnt playing it with my own skill, rather i was playing with the skills of the player who posted the information. it is a thought that i have had throughout my gaming history, it is very hard to feel otherwise

"Skill" and "knowledge" are two completely different things that you shouldn't confuse. Knowledge is power, as they say, and knowledge will greatly help you in winning at this game, but skill is something you would have to develop by yourself.

If by using knowledge to your advantage equals playing with the skill of the player who taught you the knowledge, you could instantly become as good as someone else simply by listening to their advices, and this of course isn't the case.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Grimtuesday gimped you like a falco recovering to high lands into a falcon punch.

Sigged. You are so pro ICG.

 

[finalcloud13]

Tell your friend to never buy another textbook again. In fact, he should just stop going to school because the teachers tell you everything and that's sooooo cheating.

 

[mastermoo420]

Guys, I think we should listen to what zluvsanime. OBVIOUSLY, everything he says is right because he said it. F*** how come I never realized I was cheating all this time? This makes me feel horrible. I'm sick and tired of all this cheating. Guys, we should all just stop cheating. No wavedashing or dash-dancing - rolls and dashes only. No SHFFLs - only B moves.

Fox only.

Final Destination.