How can people abuse/torture animals!

[Moon of the Strawberries]

Needless torturing of animals is sick, demented, repulsive and wrong beyond what those words alone can convey. People who do those kinds of things don't deserve to be called human beings and live in the same world as we do. I'm not going to say they deserve to die, because I can't judge whether another human should die; no human should ever say that someone else should die. However, they should be stripped of their identities and everything they love, and sent away to live in unbroken solitude for eternity.

Exactly, war tactics and animal abuse have nothing in common. Sure, you can pretend whatever you're hurting isn't really a living being, but in war it's a given, it's self defense. With animal abuse, their is no defense involved.

Then again, it is true with Nysyarc is saying about war and opposing sides, but this is more or less on the topic of animals and not people.

 

[Met]

I watched an animal cruelty video today.

It made me cry for the first time in like 4-5 years.

Seriously I love animals and believe they deserve to live happy and be treated right.

I may eat meat but I KNOW what goes on behind the scenes and I take it with with a pinch of salt.(No pun intended )

Unnecessary cruelty makes me sick and the ****ers who do it deserve the same fate.

Anyone who calls me a ***** or any of that **** can just ****k off and die because this is one of many pointless things that waste of life sickos do and deep down everyone knows it.I dont care if its for money it can be done humanely.

If you want to see the video I saw then pM me.

i like to put socks over my cats head.

 

[1048576]

Why do animals deserve any rights?

 

[teeman92]

Why do animals deserve any rights?

what he said, i mean, pet can have rights (unless they are a ***** to you)

 

[Teran]

Ask a soldier in war how they can shoot to kill.

Because the guys you are killing are trying to kill you, they're a threat to your country which holds everything you love, and because they've pretty much already sealed their fate just by agreeing to be in the army (it's very likely they'll die anyways even if you DON'T kill them). Killing someone who is deadly, already very well equipped to hurt you and who you love, is perfectly willing to do it, and has already agreed to lay down their lives for their country is a HELL of a lot different from TORTURING an innocent animal who can't defend itself and has done absolutely nothing to wrong you until its dead.

It's simple, you just switch off, and pretend it's nothing more than an animated object. My father and one of my teachers were both officers in the army a while back, and they both said the same thing. You won't fire a single round until you learn to shut it all away. There are one or two that enjoy the killing, but they aren't actually very good at what they do, and don't last very long.

Or just consider the fact that they're trying to kill you and destroy what you love.

What about invading countries/soldiers? Your argument fails, because wars all have agressors.

War isn't the Platoon versus the murderous cannibal gooks, it's a collection of two groups of men on opposite sides of a battlefield that don't really want to be there being told to kill each other.

Believe it or not, most reasons for wars these days are farces, and the silly idea that war should be civil and humane gets in the way of its efficacy.

 

[Pikaville]

Why do animals deserve any rights?

Because they live on earth with us and deserve to be treated with as much respect as any other living thing.Because some people just like to do what they want for kicks,money etc and they dont see a problem with it,even if it means destroying something precious and unique.

Just because we are more intelligent and have the means to kill things doesnt mean we should.

If an Alien race landed on earth and started torturing and killing people and hanging them from building/monuments for everyone to see,you can guarantee we'd try and stop them at some stage because weve been given the gift of understanding and logical reasoning and as a fully sentient race could unite and try to do something about it.Animals dont have this luxury.

Just like animals if the aliens were vastly superior in intelligence,technology etc and didnt care about OUR rights they would wipe us out without remorse and we'd be no different to animals because there would be no one to say "Hey these creatures are unique and deserve to live just like you do"

If insects somehow became as intelligent as us you can guarantee that within a day or 2 half of us would be wiped out and our bodies used to incubate and feed their young.

Humans are ******* this planet up whether you like it or not,and if all other forms of life here on Earth could understand that....we'd be long gone.

 

[Moon of the Strawberries]

Because they live on earth with us and deserve to be treated with as much respect as any other living thing.Because some people just like to do what they want for kicks,money etc and they dont see a problem with it,even if it means destroying something precious and unique.

Just because we are more intelligent and have the means to kill things doesnt mean we should.

If an Alien race landed on earth and started torturing and killing people and hanging them from building/monuments for everyone to see,you can guarantee we'd try and stop them at some stage because weve been given the gift of understanding and logical reasoning and as a fully sentient race could unite and try to do something about it.Animals dont have this luxury.

Just like animals if the aliens were vastly superior in intelligence,technology etc and didnt care about OUR rights they would wipe us out without remorse and we'd be no different to animals because there would be no one to say "Hey these creatures are unique and deserve to live just like you do"

If insects somehow became as intelligent as us you can guarantee that within a day or 2 half of us would be wiped out and our bodies used to incubate and feed their young.

Humans are ******* this planet up whether you like it or not,and if all other forms of life here on Earth could understand that....we'd be long gone.

Couldn't of said it better myself. All living things should have rights, we all feel pain, we all feel emotions and we all have wants and needs. The only real diffrence is that we look diffrent and have diffrent intellects. Jiust because one may be stronger or weaker, doesn't mean that the stronger should torment the weaker for their own pleasure.

 

[1048576]

Because they live on earth with us and deserve to be treated with as much respect as any other living thing.Because some people just like to do what they want for kicks,money etc and they dont see a problem with it,even if it means destroying something precious and unique.

Just because we are more intelligent and have the means to kill things doesnt mean we should.

If an Alien race landed on earth and started torturing and killing people and hanging them from building/monuments for everyone to see,you can guarantee we'd try and stop them at some stage because weve been given the gift of understanding and logical reasoning and as a fully sentient race could unite and try to do something about it.Animals dont have this luxury.

Just like animals if the aliens were vastly superior in intelligence,technology etc and didnt care about OUR rights they would wipe us out without remorse and we'd be no different to animals because there would be no one to say "Hey these creatures are unique and deserve to live just like you do"

If insects somehow became as intelligent as us you can guarantee that within a day or 2 half of us would be wiped out and our bodies used to incubate and feed their young.

Humans are ******* this planet up whether you like it or not,and if all other forms of life here on Earth could understand that....we'd be long gone.

First paragraph is easy. Precious and unique does not equate to "morally obligatory to preserve."

Second paragraph is basically saying nothing. That's the conclusion you should be reaching, not the assertion. I disagree.

Well, duh. But if we can't stop them, they have no reason to stop killing us if it increases their standard of living.

You still haven't argued why you think animals should have rights. You're just saying "Well, they should" in like a dozen different ways. I disagree.

Yes, and they (insects) have every reason to do that.

Look, nobody's forcing you to buy efficiently slaughtered animals. If you want to be PETA, fine, spend a ton of money, because the option is there. However, I like the idea of having my standard of living as high as possible, and I feel that it is immoral to decrease the sum utility of the human constituency.

 

[Pikaville]

Firstly im talking about then UNNECESSARY killing of animals.Killing(humanely) for food is ok.But why do we have to kill creatures for their fur,let alone for sport?Why skin an animal leave it to die a horrible death when you can just make a synthetic version thats like a 1/4 of the price?

You also said why stop killing if it increases standards of living.I fail to see how dog,**** fights etc, making fur coats and setting fire to your pets increases our standards of living.May be your a reborn barbarian?(Although your language suggests otherwise)

I believe animals should have rights because we do.Let me fire it back your way and ask why should humans have rights?

GTG ill edit later and finish.

 

[1048576]

All killing of animals is unnecessary in this day and age. Suppose I do have fun pumping dogs full of lead. As long as nobody owns the dogs, why should I be forced to forego an enjoyable activity, which increases my standard of living, so that an animal may live?

You're using a lot of emotionally charged language. I think it would help us get to the core of the debate if you didn't call me a barbarian.

Third paragraph is very interesting. Humans have rights because humans contribute to other human's well-being. In other words, I fix your computer, and I get to be protected. That's what society is for. You pool your labor, and in return, you get protection from the government. Animals do not contribute their labor, unless you kill them for food, which is not a good enough reason to grant them rights, since the moment you give them rights, they no longer contribute.

 

[SKy Angel]

Some research says that children that abuse animals are usually themselves being abused by their parents...
People who abuse animals where either just plain cruel or been abused themselves.
People are always affected on whats been done to them.

I remember seeing something like that when I was a kid.

 

[RDK]

Why do animals deserve any rights?

If you're really going to go down this logical progression--why do you deserve rights? Humans are animals.

All killing of animals is unnecessary in this day and age. Suppose I do have fun pumping dogs full of lead. As long as nobody owns the dogs, why should I be forced to forego an enjoyable activity, which increases my standard of living, so that an animal may live?

Because it is unethical to infringe upon the rights of other organisms just for the sake of getting an adrenaline rush from killing.

Let's flip the situation. Let's say somehow dogs evolved to become the dominant species instead of humans. Would you feel the same way if they spent their leisure time pumping humans full of lead?

Anyone who isn't mentally ******** can observe the fact that dogs have feelings and emotions, no matter how primitive compared to humans. To pretend that we deserve rights while other animals of the higher orders don't is foolish.

The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way it treats its animals."

-Ghandi

You're using a lot of emotionally charged language. I think it would help us get to the core of the debate if you didn't call me a barbarian.

I agree. But you're not being very scientific in your responses either. To pass over the biological relationship of humans and other animals is ignorant.

Third paragraph is very interesting. Humans have rights because humans contribute to other human's well-being. In other words, I fix your computer, and I get to be protected. That's what society is for. You pool your labor, and in return, you get protection from the government. Animals do not contribute their labor, unless you kill them for food, which is not a good enough reason to grant them rights, since the moment you give them rights, they no longer contribute.

This is stupid. Animals don't have societies?

So the sentience of an animal is determined by how useful it is to humans? Please.

 

[1048576]

Animals do not belong to the same society that you and I belong to. My cat cannot buy a home or get a job. Thus, they do not have the rights conferred on to the constituents of said society.

"other organisms..." I'm sure you have no problem with me replacing the weeds in my yard, or applying a disinfectant to my dishes. It's not unethical.

I think that Ghandi quote refers to the fact that you and I wouldn't want to hurt other animals even if we had the option. Certain people do get pleasure from violence, however, and for them, I feel the option should be on the table, for reasons already explained.

I know dogs have feelings and emotions. The conclusion does not follow from the premise.

I deserve rights because I belong to a society which has a pseudo contractual obligation to endow me with certain rights, such as life, liberty, etc...

If dogs beat me up, I would be pissed and depressed about the situation. That doesn't change the fact that the dogs have every right to do these things.

 

[RDK]

Animals do not belong to the same society that you and I belong to. My cat cannot buy a home or get a job. Thus, they do not have the rights conferred on to the constituents of said society.

So what? You still haven't shown why human societies are different enough from animal societies to merit these rights. Animals have jobs and houses too, just not ones like we have.

"other organisms..." I'm sure you have no problem with me replacing the weeds in my yard, or applying a disinfectant to my dishes. It's not unethical.

Notice how I specifically didn't use just "organisms". I said animals of the higher orders. And somehow you still managed to misquote me.

I think that Ghandi quote refers to the fact that you and I wouldn't want to hurt other animals even if we had the option. Certain people do get pleasure from violence, however, and for them, I feel the option should be on the table, for reasons already explained.

You did nothing except advocate a hedonistic society where I can go out on a whim and do whatever I want simply by the virtue that I want to.

How does me wanting to kill a dog give me the right to?

I know dogs have feelings and emotions. The conclusion does not follow from the premise.

Sure it does. You're arguing from a strictly humanistic standpoint that isn't taking into account the fact that we're animals too. I'm asking you to provide examples of what separates humans from other animals (like a dog), and you have yet to provide a sufficient answer.

I deserve rights because I belong to a society which has a pseudo contractual obligation to endow me with certain rights, such as life, liberty, etc...

What qualifies as a pseudo-contractual obligation?

Are you seeing what I'm trying to do here? Your argument contains empty assertions about the structure of human society. Why is a ridiculous contract we make concerning rights any more valid than rights that should belong to other animals of similar intelligence? You're just being silly and unnecessarily elitist.

If dogs beat me up, I would be pissed and depressed about the situation. That doesn't change the fact that the dogs have every right to do these things.

I wouldn't say they have the right; they certainly have the ability. But there are consequences.

If I beat the **** out of some guy on the street, I get a few weeks in jail maximum for disorderly conduct. If a dog bites you for whatever reason, even if it's self defense, it gets put down.

 

[Azua]

Seriously? Am I seriously reading what I think I'm reading?


Please tell me we are not debating on whether it should be a crime to go out and randomly shoot dogs.

 

[Xsyven]

Seriously? Am I seriously reading what I think I'm reading?


Please tell me we are not debating on whether it should be a crime to go out and randomly shoot dogs.

Not anymore. If you seriously want to debate this, take it to the Debate Hall.