Houston Smash Ultimate Thread

[UltimateRazer]

Idk, the spin dash is just so good and Sonic is a rinse and repeat character so it has the run away factor embedded in it. Sonic can just do it over and over

 

[kj22]

Brawl has nothing to do with this lol. It comes from a combination of playing them in friendlies, tourney, and wifi. I just see what Sonic can do and I hate it. Their matches are the ones that usually drag on. SAME WITH BC'S VILLAGER OOOO

Evo will most likely be my one OOS trip of the year.

I brought brawl up because sonic can do many of the things he can in this game in brawl.

And playing campy a choice, just so happens that sonics just better then average at it. Whether or not someone play campy comes down to a players preferred style of fighting, not their character, so get mad at the people choosing to play that way and not the character they're using

 

[kj22]

Idk, the spin dash is just so good and Sonic is a rinse and repeat character so it has the run away factor embedded in it. Sonic can just do it over and over

Razer plz. Learn the mu. Pretty sure any aeriel will beat SD, just requires good timing.

Won't it feel soooo good to knee every sonic spinning your way?(;

 

[alex mora]

I'm deciding if I should go to Vegas for EVO.

lets go man!

 

[UltimateRazer]

Razer plz. Learn the mu. Pretty sure any aeriel will beat SD, just requires good timing.

Won't it feel soooo good to knee every sonic spinning your way?(;

Lol you're not changing my mind on this. I've seen the high level Sonic play so far on streams. He's ugly.

 

[Espy Rose]

6WX plays it straight. Manny is too scared to play it as effectively.
Every other Sonic that plays that way gets away with it because their opponents are bad.

 

[Teshie U]

6WX plays it straight. Manny is too scared to play it as effectively.
Every other Sonic that plays that way gets away with it because their opponents are bad.

This.

This is what happens when you take nades and bananas and aura and frame safe sword spam from folks who didn't ever bother to learn the matchup in the first place.

Spindash is way worse in this game and if a Sonic is rinse and repeating with it, you can just hit him every time. Once he is in the air he is free free free.

His runaway game comes with the territory of any fast character. Its only really bad if you are ALOT slower than him. If you are chasing him, he has to pass you up every 5 seconds and you just have to might the right call when the time comes. And unlike MK/Villager he isn't hiding in some advantageous spot where you will get destroyed for approaching him.


And on the subject of Diddy Kong, banning him won't help this time around because people are salty about him for the same reasons all the other good characters are annoying. Diddy, Ness, Mii etc. are all just trying to dash grab you over and over at every percent for damage building, punishing, killing. Always.

 

[Espy Rose]

Spindash options are worse. As a whole, spindash is just very different. Big damage in exchange for the loss of options. Charge and collision mechanics are different.

I still prefer Brawl spins, but Smash 4 spins are big, big damage.

 

[UltimateRazer]

Sonic is definitely high tier in this game. I just hate how the character plays. The rinse and repeat I referred to is hard to punish.

Lol Tesh that is not why people are salty about Diddy. He is in a league of his own from Ness/Mii etc. PLEASE.

Ok so interested people for Evo is me, Flip, GIMMEMOREOFDAT, Trela, RT, possibly Allan??

 

[Teshie U]

Diddy isn't as OP as MK, but he generates alot more salt because its very very repetitive. MK had an entire arsenal of tricks, traps and mixups and Diddy is kind of...1 dimensional in how oppressiveness.

Still deeper than...Ness I'd say.

@Espy, doing 17-20 damage off of 1 punish was a bigger deal than doing 30 damage in this game. If Falcon lands a freaking upair on you, you take like 40-50 damage. Almost everyone has 20-30 damage off a grab for free.

That safety allowed him to just keep doing it if you didn't challenge it upfront. This time around, once you hit the shield and jump, you are pretty vulnerable.

Sure as an aggressive player you are enjoying the extra benefit for being right, but good lord the safety has a much greater risk for being OP.

Brawl Sonic is basically bottom tier aerials, tilts and smashes but spindash was a top tier move.

 

[Xyro77]

First and foremost the game needs to be enjoyable to play and compete in.

Of course you could also be the kind of TO that doesn't listen to the people that DO attend your events.

At least those 2 stock folks are listening to someone...

The game isn't fun for me at 2 stocks but it is for the next guy. I hate camping but the next guy may love it. I like japes but Joe Blow doesnt. So "enjoyable to play and compete in" is EXTREMELY subjective.

When you listen to players, you get game ruining things like MK, very low stage count, 2 stocks and other garbage aspects of rulesets. I've seen it take over melee after 2008 and totally dominate brawl after 2010. It will happen in smash 4 eventually.

It takes a truly strong/courageous/legendary person with insight/foresight/borderline physchic to put aside the desires of himself and the desires of the uneducated/selfish masses in order to preserve the game. That is what I do.

Remember, the players come and go at the flick of a switch but the game is all we have, therefore the game takes priority. This is why my events do well and this is why I've been here so long.

 

[Xyro77]

Also, Club Nintendo is closing in June so please register all your games and spend all your coins as soon as possible.

 

[RT]

I believe they already said they will add a few more items soon.

At least this sort of confirms Mewtwo DLC will be out before June.

 

[Xyro77]

I believe they already said they will add a few more items soon.

At least this sort of confirms Mewtwo DLC will be out before June.

i wonder if MEWTWO and the MiiVerse stage will come out around each other?

 

[RT]

That is the most optimal thing to do. My hope is that they are also testing balancing and hopefully fixing small random glitches as well. They are probably also testing all those other features mentioned in that one direct. Needless to say, it will probably be a big update when it comes out.

 

[Oni•n]

The game isn't fun for me at 2 stocks but it is for the next guy. I hate camping but the next guy may love it. I like japes but Joe Blow doesnt. So "enjoyable to play and compete in" is EXTREMELY subjective.

When you listen to players, you get game ruining things like MK, very low stage count, 2 stocks and other garbage aspects of rulesets. I've seen it take over melee after 2008 and totally dominate brawl after 2010. It will happen in smash 4 eventually.

It takes a truly strong/courageous/legendary person with insight/foresight/borderline physchic to put aside the desires of himself and the desires of the uneducated/selfish masses in order to preserve the game. That is what I do.

Remember, the players come and go at the flick of a switch but the game is all we have, therefore the game takes priority. This is why my events do well and this is why I've been here so long.

Well said, old man. Keep up the good work and keep Smash 4 alive for us! You're the best! See ya at TGC!

 

[Teshie U]

The game isn't fun for me at 2 stocks but it is for the next guy. I hate camping but the next guy may love it. I like japes but Joe Blow doesnt. So "enjoyable to play and compete in" is EXTREMELY subjective.

When you listen to players, you get game ruining things like MK, very low stage count, 2 stocks and other garbage aspects of rulesets. I've seen it take over melee after 2008 and totally dominate brawl after 2010. It will happen in smash 4 eventually.

It takes a truly strong/courageous/legendary person with insight/foresight/borderline physchic to put aside the desires of himself and the desires of the uneducated/selfish masses in order to preserve the game. That is what I do.

Remember, the players come and go at the flick of a switch but the game is all we have, therefore the game takes priority. This is why my events do well and this is why I've been here so long.

I take a very logical stance (as much as I can) when it comes to legality and ruleset design, but when it comes down to it, it really is majority rule.

In the end, what people "want" is going to trump whats fair.

Edit: Please note that NO games releasing after last week are eligible for club nintendo coins. All codes need to be registered before the end of March, meaning Mewtwo will be released around that time at the latest.

 

[Xyro77]

I take a very logical stance (as much as I can) when it comes to legality and ruleset design, but when it comes down to it, it really is majority rule.

With my series, I do what is best for the game (longevity wise) regardless if it's "logical" or not. Logic doesn't govern me and the majority doesnt rule here. For once in Houston's smash history, we have 3 other TOs (Devinian with GFC, Alexonian with For Glory and Insomnianian) who see what I am doing are like, "I grew up thinking that IronMan and Batman were heroes. I was wrong. Xyro, YOU are the hero. The hero that makes this game fair for the casuals but still competitive for the core. The hero that is willing to ban dumb **** when the sheep masses allow it. You hold on to the founding fathers original ruleset (set back in early melee) as best as you can even when the world is pulling at your boot straps. You stand against everything vile, evil and protect the innocence of children from the money hungry, the selfish and the uneducated. You, Xyro77 the Green Lesbian, are legendary." And so they copy my rules and add their own flavor to it by editing a few minor things (stages mostly). If that wasn't evidence enough, SAN ANTONION is using a form of my rules but with a bit of their own flavoring. Dallas is the only one who refuses to join the rest of TX and quite honestly, they have many more issues than 2 stocks and bad stage lists lololol.

Edit: Please note that NO games releasing after last week are eligible for club nintendo coins. All codes need to be registered before the end of March, meaning Mewtwo will be released around that time at the latest.

That is extremely good to know. Has Nintendo announced a replacement for Club Nintendo?

 

[GaiustheThief]

I went to go check the Aftershock ruleset
All I can say is that it's gay
3 Starters and two stocks
Gross

 

[Xyro77]

I went to go check the Aftershock ruleset
All I can say is that it's gay
3 Starters and two stocks
Gross

Literally starting the end of Smash 4.

 

[GaiustheThief]

I'm glad I at least live in a strong pro 3 stock city

 

[Teshie U]

Nintendo has stated there will be a new loyalty program with details to come later. Maybe a direct in a few months or at e3 we will see what its all about.

@XYRO, the majority wins one way or another. In all cases its about what the majority will tolerate. When you run into a glaring issue that will won't allow to continue. You fold like everyone else regardless of how you feel on the issue.

Your events are what they are because the majority preferred/tolerated them over others. And thats all it comes down to with stocks, customs, stages, characters etc.

 

[RT]

No replacement for Club Nintendo yet. Since they announced crossbuying recently, it's very likely it'll be something to unify both the 3DS, Wii U, and whatever future systems planned similar to PSN. If it becomes a paid service remains to be seen...

It'll be a slow but worthwhile process knowing Nintendo.

 

[Xyro77]

I got a really cool Smash 4 tournament announcement coming up tonight (maybe tomorrow if things run late). Its something that hasn't happened since 2010.

 

[Fliphopper]

hmmmm this should be juicy.

 

[RT]

Damn, I was hoping for a Hobo 12 part II announcement...

Two years too late.

 

[TheJerm]

Don't even say nothin to mee booooooooooooooy you look like a mfkn uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[BC.]

Was pleasantly surprised at Insomnia's huge stagelist for smash 4, considering they used to do FD only, 3 Stock - 5 Minutes for Brawl.

 

[Xyro77]

Since smash has been out for 4 months and we have all had multiple tournament experiences, what do you think is a fair ranking for the characters as of right now? I'm not asking for a deep analytic viewpoint (its way too early) but rather a "in general, here is where i think they rank.'' My list has no order with in the tier.


S rank

Diddy
Sheik


A rank

Sonic
Pikachu
Lucario
ZS
Fox
Yoshi
Ness


B rank

Rosalina
Falcon
Greninja
Dark Pit
Robin
MegaMan
Luigi
Mario
Shulk
Palutena
Bowser Jr
Rob
Pac Man
Little Mac


C rank

Metaknight
Pit
Villager
Mii Brawler
Duck Hunt
Falco
Wario
Peach
Marth
Lucina
Bowser
DK
Ike
Toon Link
Samus
Gw
DDD
Kirby


D rank

WiiFit Girl
Olimar
Link
Mii Sword
Mii Gunner
Doctor Mario
Charizard
Zelda
Jiggs
Ganon

 

[EzPz_jB]

I would move Mario and Dark pit up. Villager is low A to me. Peach is being slept on. Other than that I think your ranking is decent. I think we need some more testing for the B tiers. I think they may have good matchups that could pop them into higher tiers.

 

[Xyro77]

I agree a TON of characters are hugely undiscovered. Im just wanting to see what the rest of Houston thinks. None of our opinions have anything to do with the future tier lists or anything.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Yoshi isn't top tier. People just bad and think he's top tier similar to game and watch for Brawl.

 

[EzPz_jB]

What are your reasons for Yoshi being worse than he is Considered(Edit)?

 

[alex mora]

Idk if Jiggs is second to last i understand she isnt amazing but still lol

 

[Teshie U]

Dark Pit waaaaaaaaaay better than Pit really? Are there even any benefits to choosing dark pit?

Also Marth is significantly more threatening than Lucina

 

[UltimateRazer]

Diddy is SS tier. Sheik is S tier.

Bowser Jr is in C tier. Falcon is good in B tier. Move Villager and Mii Brawler up.

 

[Xyro77]

What separates marth and lucina is microscopic range difference and a tip. Imo that wasn't enough to put marth a whole tier above lucina especially considering who is in the tier above her. besides that, we have very little to no results on either one of them

 

[GaiustheThief]

Pit is better than Dark Pit imo
His arrows are more versatile
F tilt is stronger
And side b kills earlier
Those are there only three differences too so Pit being that much lower to me is ridiculous

 

[Xyro77]

Pit is better than Dark Pit imo
His arrows are more versatile
F tilt is stronger
And side b kills earlier
Those are there only three differences too so Pit being that much lower to me is ridiculous

Dark Pit waaaaaaaaaay better than Pit really? Are there even any benefits to choosing dark pit?

I see next to no results for Pit but some amount with Dark Pit.

Idk if Jiggs is second to last i understand she isnt amazing but still lol

she isnt 2nd to last. she is somewhere in that tier.

i have no idea. i see zero results with her other than Reflex winning a louisiana or mississippi event going sole jiggs ( i somehow doubt jiggs is ALL he played). i also see no info on her saying shes decent.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Man I wonder how many times I've gone through this.

All his kills outside of fishing for Fair offstage require killing vertically and we don't kill anyone till like 130-180 (jr. bowser DK etc.) even lightweights usually survive that long (rosalina Sheik especially) cause we gotta commit incredibly hard for that kill which makes coming back even more of an issue (would be even ****ing worse if it was 2 stocks, people running and camping as soon as first stock is lost, yuck.....) so only getting damage off our 6% eggs (sometimes hits for only 1%, the egg itself)

His grabs is still as horrible as ever and pivot grab especially was nerfed to the ****ing ground taking almost 3 seconds before we can do another action, even if we get a grab all we get out of it is 2 pummels and a f/bthrow (10-12%) for stage advantage maybe since our throws don't kill like how everyone else has killing bthrows now meaning they go virtually nowhere even if they're over 100%.

Lost weight so can't survive as long as we used too, as an example killing Yoshi even 10% earlier is still a significant nerf. His only "combos" is if people don't attempt jumping from our Dthrow to Uair (I think anybody that has a dthrow to anything combo we should just call it The Diddy ala Luigi and a few others) Dair for 33% and Fair chains to Uair which Yoshi's coined kinda the pinball, that's of course if they don't tech the stage.
People complain how his dair is dumb, but honestly his hitbox is connected to the move, anything can hit him out of it and because he prolly sacrificed his DJ to use it (if any shorthop dairs they're asking to be punished cause of landing lag similar to the bair nerf in both landing lag and hits lasting like a second each if they shield it) it's easy to punish him even more and most likely gimp him if a Yoshi was silly enough to try and do full hop Dair.

Only "buffs" with Yoshi is the rest of his moveset is pretty similar still, good jab Command grab still (tho nerfed in both startup and range) stretchy smoke and mirror moves (though like most Fsmashes in this game, they can miss completely if next to them so a global nerf kinda) him having the best airspeed with Jiggly still makes him too slippery to deal with, and Out of shield options. So basically Brawl Yoshi but with tweaks in the form of nerfs/buffs or small changes to a move like egg toss arcs, OoS finally since 64 is great, Usmash and nair oos and all that. But it's almost evened out from all the nerfs like DJC removal bair hits egg toss hops and grabs still being trash while pivot grab punishes us if we whiff it compared to other characters, think even tether grabs finish a second earlier than us.


Tier stuph Olimar Gunner Charizard Ganon too low

Kirby Tink maybe to bottom

Mii brawler Wario Duck Hunt and Villager to B, Yoshi there too but maybe top of B tier competing with Rosalina. It's real close but I just think after awhile Yoshi will most likely be kicked out of Top 10, otherwise I guess I'm fine with people putting him up there for now.

Rob Palutena too high, maybe just one tier down, palutena with customs would be in B tier though. But if we wanted to make a tierlist with customs allowed, that'd be a whole different beast to deal with.