Honest Notes From an Honest Gentleman: 13 Ways Women Accidently Attract Men

[Adell]

you were *****?!

 

[Fatmanonice]

you were *****?!

When I was 10 and I'm 22 now. Truth be told, I really haven't started talking about it until earlier this year. Again, I got to the point where I could forgive him. The guy who did it is married now (I attended his wedding) and I haven't seen him in probably about 7 years. I was 10 when it happened and he was 15/16 if I remember right. Still, things happen and you can decide whether or not you rise above them or let them drag you down the rest of your life. For me, it played a large factor in the depression I faced for nearly 11 years. I wanted to blame him for most of my social problems so I did. I wanted to stay a victim so I did. I wanted to use that as a excuse for the fact that I believed that I was evil and tainted people by simply being near them so I did. I could go on and on.

 

[Jam Stunna]

This is why we can't have nice things in UB.

You're flaming now, CRASHiC. Next time will be an infraction.

 

[CRASHiC]

1. Sociology is still a science. Your arguement was that it wasn't a real science.

Because its not. Its not a true science. It is in no way coming to conclusive data, at all. Its all theory and no practice and dealing with things that they can not prove. It is not a respected field in the slightest.

Notice how I'm still calm and haven't thrown any insults; you really ought to follow suit.

Bull ****. Yuo have thrown out insults when you said that my inabilty to remove the parts of myself that I dislike was simply because I didn't want it. You are insulting me by making assumptions about me and attaching negativity to it, which is my entire problem with this if you recall.

The funny thing about personal struggles is, just that, they're not really personal. People like to go on and on that their problems are so unique and so deep when, in the reality of things, there is always someone who has it worse. I was *****; so what? There are child prostitutes in Southeast Asia who have the same thing that was done to me done multiple times a day for years on end. Looking back, I was baby for not seeking help as well as letting my depression get as severe as it did. As the Buddha said, "to live is to suffer." Everyone has their own suffering so yours shouldn't be held above simply because it is your own.

This entire paragraph is completely irrelevant and completely illogical. A personal struggle doesn't have anything to do with being unique. Its something that someone must personally struggle through. It has nothing to do with being unique to them. We all struggle through certain things in our life, and those that exist within ourself, those that no one can truly help us with, these are called personal struggles. Simply because others might also suffer from being racist, but that does not lessen my personal strife with it. Simply because you were rapped does not change the struggles that anyone else has to work through.

Good and evil are just words. Same goes for value. Everyone creates their own definitions of each. They are all very subjective and nobody has the exact same outline for all of them.

More irrelevant, half baked garbage.

Again, you're accusing me of going against your definitions of good and evil and what YOU value.

So now you're accusing me of hurting your individualism, funny, isn't it? I'm not arguing good or evil here, as much as you can try to make it, this is about freeing up the range of the individual in the world, which can only be done by addressing each person with these such habbits on an individual basis until such negative ideas are cleansed from the world.

3. Profiling? I thought we already covered this. The definition of profiling is:

"the use of specific characteristics, as race or age, to make generalizations about a person, as whether he or she may be engaged in illegal activity."


*pop* I can't say that I do this. As I mentioned in my last response, this is an example of taking characteristics and giving them a negative connotation. As I've said, as well as an increasing number of people who have chimed on this discussion have said, I haven't done this.

ANY connotation is negative. I may favor women, but I don't treat men like dirt. Women are put on a pedestal with me. (this is not mean sexually in anyway) However, I recognize that this is wrongful of me. Any sort of classification of people is bad and wrong.

[quote[People fear me?[/quote]
I mispoke, YOU fear PEOPLE, otherwise you would feel no need to classify them.

Just because a large number of black people live in the South and fried chicken is from the South doesn't mean they have to eat it. In a sense, it is a cultural perference. Does this mean that every black person likes fried chicken. No.

You've still yet to give me any real rational reason to belive that black people like friend chicken any more than the other race. There is NO REASON.

As for the Jews, 12 of the 19 richest men in America are jewish, for example, and there are many other examples that show that there is a tendency amongst jews to save money, make smart business investments, etc. Does this mean that they all do it? No.

Being rich does not equal hoarding your money.
"In this world you must run at 100 percent pace to stay at where you currently are, and run at least 200 should you wish to advance" - Queen of Hearts, Alice In Wonderland.
Debt and risk is the way to get risk in this country, not hoarding, thanks to inflation.

4. I'm flattered that you think I have that much power over individual people's daily lives let alone entire sexes. I'm even more flattered by how you think I've somehow flipped society on its head by posting this on here and facebook and have probably had less than 100 people genuinely read through it. I think you're giving me way too much credit then I deserve but thanks for believing that I can influence the masses on a large scale through a few internet posts.

You are inhibiting each individual you meet, and continuing damaging behavior. What you do makes a difference, even if you do not effect the entire population of the world.

You're flaming now, CRASHiC. Next time will be an infraction.

No I'm not. It would be flaming if I said nothing concrete with it. If someone dare insult me in such a way, I will bite. Cuss words don't make an insult any worse.

 

[Adell]

When I was 10 and I'm 22 now. Truth be told, I really haven't started talking about it until earlier this year. Again, I got to the point where I could forgive him. The guy who did it is married now (I attended his wedding) and I haven't seen him in probably about 7 years. I was 10 when it happened and he was 15/16 if I remember right. Still, things happen and you can decide whether or not you rise above them or let them drag you down the rest of your life. For me, it played a large factor in the depression I faced for nearly 11 years. I wanted to blame him for most of my social problems so I did. I wanted to stay a victim so I did. I wanted to use that as a excuse for the fact that I believed that I was evil and tainted people by simply being near them so I did. I could go on and on.

im so sorry

 

[Mewter]

Originally Posted by CRASHiC
No I'm not [flaming].

Originally Posted by CRASHiC
Honestly, **** you fat *****. I wasn't mad until now, but you have truly exposed yourself as a high and mighty pompous mother ****er

You're blowing the entire scope of FMOI's intention out of proportion. Not only are you becoming highly emotional over a general use of words (which by the way, were never intended to apply to everyone,) but you are continuing to argue, even when others have explained to you that you are misrepresenting what he is saying:

Originally Posted by CRASHiC
You are inhibiting each individual you meet, and continuing damaging behavior. What you do makes a difference, even if you do not effect the entire population of the world.

[ellipses]

So now you're accusing me of hurting your individualism, funny, isn't it? I'm not arguing good or evil here, as much as you can try to make it, this is about freeing up the range of the individual in the world, which can only be done by addressing each person with these such habbits on an individual basis until such negative ideas are cleansed from the world.

He isn't attacking individuality, but you're attacking him on the premise that he is trying to impose a generalized view on all people and eliminate individuality.
He is trying to give helpful advice using his experiences, and acknowledges that there are many exceptions to what he is saying. You have seemed to miss this part, and insist that he is saying that these generalizations are always true, and that he even thinks along those lines.

He doesn't.

 

[El Nino]

I'm sexist in favor of women, probably because I wish I was one.

That's fine. Actually, that makes a lot of sense.

Even in prim-apes, attempting to justify their decisions based on their species or gender can prove impossible when there is a societal influence.

And what if societal influence is causing the patterns of behavior that Fatman noticed? In addition to biology?

That said, you are probably the exception to a lot of what he wrote. So there's no need to feel that the statements in this blog apply to you. I understand it's probably frustrating to deal with traditional gender roles, and the more other people see gender and try to put it in your face, the more it probably reminds you that you just don't see it their way. That's fine. It's just that, for them, this is their reality, just as how your reality is yours. I don't know why, but I get the impression that there's some externalization going on here. There's no reason why you have to accept their reality over yours, but there's also no reason why you have to make them see it your way either. At the end of the day, girls will still do their thing, guys will still do their thing, and you're still gonna be the same person you were before this flamewar started.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Because its not. Its not a true science. It is in no way coming to conclusive data, at all. Its all theory and no practice and dealing with things that they can not prove. It is not a respected field in the slightest.


Bull ****. Yuo have thrown out insults when you said that my inabilty to remove the parts of myself that I dislike was simply because I didn't want it. You are insulting me by making assumptions about me and attaching negativity to it, which is my entire problem with this if you recall.


This entire paragraph is completely irrelevant and completely illogical. A personal struggle doesn't have anything to do with being unique. Its something that someone must personally struggle through. It has nothing to do with being unique to them. We all struggle through certain things in our life, and those that exist within ourself, those that no one can truly help us with, these are called personal struggles. Simply because others might also suffer from being racist, but that does not lessen my personal strife with it. Simply because you were rapped does not change the struggles that anyone else has to work through.


More irrelevant, half baked garbage.

So now you're accusing me of hurting your individualism, funny, isn't it? I'm not arguing good or evil here, as much as you can try to make it, this is about freeing up the range of the individual in the world, which can only be done by addressing each person with these such habbits on an individual basis until such negative ideas are cleansed from the world.



ANY connotation is negative. I may favor women, but I don't treat men like dirt. Women are put on a pedestal with me. (this is not mean sexually in anyway) However, I recognize that this is wrongful of me. Any sort of classification of people is bad and wrong.

[quote[People fear me?

I mispoke, YOU fear PEOPLE, otherwise you would feel no need to classify them.




You've still yet to give me any real rational reason to belive that black people like friend chicken any more than the other race. There is NO REASON.


Being rich does not equal hoarding your money.
"In this world you must run at 100 percent pace to stay at where you currently are, and run at least 200 should you wish to advance" - Queen of Hearts, Alice In Wonderland.
Debt and risk is the way to get risk in this country, not hoarding, thanks to inflation.


You are inhibiting each individual you meet, and continuing damaging behavior. What you do makes a difference, even if you do not effect the entire population of the world.

No I'm not. It would be flaming if I said nothing concrete with it. If someone dare insult me in such a way, I will bite. Cuss words don't make an insult any worse.[/QUOTE]

1. This has pretty much dissolved into a "nuh-uh/uh-huh" arguement so there's really no point in arguing any more about the scientific merit of sociology.

2. As the Buddha once said “A good friend who points out mistakes and imperfections and rebukes evil is to be respected as if he reveals a secret of hidden treasure.” Notice how I never called you lazy for your lack of action. It's criticism, for sure, but it's definitely not an insult. Maybe I struck a nerve and you have chosen to interpret it as such. Suppose you were overweight. If I said "you should probably exercise more", that is criticism. Now suppose that I called you a fatty, fat, fatty, fat, fatty, fat fatboy, that would be an insult. Criticism targets a problem in hopes of building the person up, insults target a person in hopes of tearing them down. For example, calling someone a pompous fat f*** classifies as an insult.

3. It's all about perspective. The problem with "personal problems" is that they usually become deep rooted when we fool ourself into believing they are more important or more difficult to solve simply because they happened to us. "How dare you tell me my problems aren't that bad?!" When you consider things like Harlequin babies, AIDS, and cholera, no your problems aren't that bad.

4. Because it's the truth? People have their own interpretations of good and evil.

5. Extremelly funny because you've taken a 3000 word essay about being aware of misleading signals posted on an internet forum about video games and turned it into a mix between the Satanic Bible, the Communist Manifesto, and Salvador Dali's Declaration of his own insanity. So, by saying all these things, how exactly do you expect to change me? As Sigmeud Freud once said, "Just as you can't force someone into belief, you also can't force someone into unbelief." People can only decide to change on their own; no yelling or threatening can change that despite what most people beleive. Why am I debating then? Because it's fun and I'm getting better insight on your beliefs because, trust me, you're the first person I've fun into like this. Debating is the equivalent of throwing grapes at your opponent's head in the hopes that you'll eventually kill him. You usually only convert those that are on the fence and undecided which clearly me and you are not.

Also, your call for a sort of "thought cleansing" kind of has me un-nerved. So, individuals are allowed to have individual thoughts just as long as they follow your standards? Allowing individualism is allowing people who don't agree with you to have their own thoughts and opinions. Under your agenda, people can be individuals, as long as everything checks out and is politically correct. *boink*

6. Any classification? Are you sure you want to make that your arguement? That would mean recognizing religions, races, ethnic groups, economic statuses, jobs, gender role, sex, food allergies, blood type, etc is "bad and wrong."

7. I fear people? Really? Man, I'm just learning more and more about myself as this discussion goes on. Again, where's your proof that I'm utterly and completely terrified of people?

8. You want statistics or what are you looking for exactly? Even if I brought up empirical evidence you'd deny it or say that the study was biased so this is another arguement that has dissolved into a "nuh-uh/uh-huh" arguement.

9. You can't stay rich by continously spending money either without money coming in. You have to save more than you spend. That's basic economics right there.

10. And dogging people for not being politically correct and having opinions different from your own isn't "damaging behavior?" If I wasn't so convinced your platform wasn't built on ego based "holier-than-thou" notions rather than genuinely being concerned about my supposed evil behavior and thinking then maybe this would be a real discussion as opposed to the farce that it's become.

To prevent this from becoming what I could only call a filibuster, this is my last response to this particular debate. I've already gone past my "three days" of my three day rule when it comes to debates anyways and it's pretty obvious that things are not going to change. Crashic, you're more than welcome to stay but please keep things civil if you plan on continuing to post. Everyone else, try not to dog Crashic if he decides to stay. Despite having a different opinion, he's still a guest in my thread, afterall.

 

[kirbywizard]

This is an amazing blog .. . .well minus this mini debate going on.

 

[Falconv1.0]

FMOI, your ability to stay civil blows my mind, it really does.

 

[Fatmanonice]

This is an amazing blog .. . .well minus this mini debate going on.

Mini? That's probably the biggest one I've been in since before Brawl was released.

 

[Untrust Us]

I support CRASHiC all the way.

 

[Queen]

My only real issue regarding this blog, is the implication that gender is more or less hardwired into people when, in reality, it is taught.

I also think a number of the avoidances are somewhat problematic. I don't outright disagree with them, because they're relevant given the provided context, but I do feel that they're all tied to the idea that we ought to clearly communicate our expectations with whomever we are speaking. This idea needs to be brought to the fore, because is the central tenant of any relationship. Communication, to continue, needs respect. It is its lifeblood.

To address Crashic's responses, I feel I must say that I think they're relevant, if polemical. Generalizations are useful. But they mustn't overshadow details because then we lose focus and the ability to differentiate. Likewise, details mustn't tower over general trends because then we lose perspective. A tapestry is a good metaphor. Individual threads are bound together to form an image. If you focus on the threads, you lose the image. If you focus on the image, you lose the origin. As for the sexism, it's present, but not precisely in the creation of the article. It's present because most of us have been socialized to have certain expectations of women, regardless of the nature of each specific, human relationship. And so, in that light, the sexism is present because it's an insidious, devious shadow from which it is difficult for us to divorce ourselves. Essentially the only "cure" to this socialization is a combination of time, experience, self-contemplation, and education. There's never a quick fix so long as a person's involved. After all, there's naught so queer as folk.

One last point I'd like to make is that not all males are men and not all females are women. These categories are able to be penetrated by anyone desirous of such a thing.

 

[Fatmanonice]

My only real issue regarding this blog, is the implication that gender is more or less hardwired into people when, in reality, it is taught.

I also think a number of the avoidances are somewhat problematic. I don't outright disagree with them, because they're relevant given the provided context, but I do feel that they're all tied to the idea that we ought to clearly communicate our expectations with whomever we are speaking. This idea needs to be brought to the fore, because is the central tenant of any relationship. Communication, to continue, needs respect. It is its lifeblood.


One last point I'd like to make is that not all males are men and not all females are women. These categories are able to be penetrated by anyone desirous of such a thing.

Thanks for your input. In the regards of gender, I actually had this discussion the other day. There is a difference between gender and sex. Sex relates to biology. Gender applies to how you view your sex, your sexual preference/s, and how this affects your "role" in society. Sex is male, female, or both (as in hermaphrodites). Gender can be male, female, bisexual, transexual, homosexual, pansexual, etc and all the little subcategories like feminist, male feminist, gay, metrosexual, queer, queen, bear (hair, muscle, chub, etc), twink, lesbian, butch, vamp, chauvinist, etc. Gender works a lot like culture in how, like you said, it's largely learned and they all have their basic expectations.

 

[Queen]

I disagree with your definition of gender but I believe in the spirit of your statements.

Firstly, hermaphroditism is a sketchy area because there are very few true hermaphrodites. Most people that would be identified by the layman as a hermaphrodite more than likely have male or female pseudo-hermaphroditism. Beyond that, when these people are born, most medical persons will opt towards making the child one or the other via surgery.

As for gender, one could be very general and extrapolate that it is a matter of categorizing behaviors based on certain criterion. I prefer to discuss gender as it relates to our sexes. I think you do sociology and gender studies a disservice by making no difference in nomenclature in reference to male and female being viable terms for both sex and gender. However, I should like to point out that gender is assigned and is related to sets of expectations forced upon us. It is not the same as a chosen identity (exempli gratia: feminist, gay, queer, queen, bear, twink...so on and so forth). Of course, the gay identity becomes somewhat convoluted because of its roots in both the biological and the social. That is the reason I struck homosexual from the above list. I use homosexual to reference the biological imperative and the gay to resonate with the behaviors that suit the aforementioned desire.

I can see where confusion might arise as gender is generally a very large part of cultural heritage. It can be difficult, if not outright impossible, to separate the two in a significant and meaningful way.

 

[3747373796432]

6. If you’re not interested in a guy, don’t give him gifts and especially don’t give him a gift if he gave you one first. Birthdays can be an exception but only if you’ve known each other for several years and, once again, have clearly established that you’re just friends. As a rule of thumb, it’s probably not a good idea to accept a gift that’s worth more than ten bucks if it’s from one individual guy. Despite popular belief, it is possible to refuse a gift from someone without them bursting into flames. It should be easy with something small but I imagine that if he yanks out something like a pearl necklace or the charter to your own private island, things could get hairy like your father’s back. Hopefully, you won’t get stuck in one of those worst case scenarios because I can’t really say anything aside from being a better judge of character and screening for psychos early on to avoid the situation altogether.

Bigger lesson to be learned: people are ungrateful ****s, including me.

 

[Dastrn]

Crashic, leave now and never come back.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I disagree with your definition of gender but I believe in the spirit of your statements.

Firstly, hermaphroditism is a sketchy area because there are very few true hermaphrodites. Most people that would be identified by the layman as a hermaphrodite more than likely have male or female pseudo-hermaphroditism. Beyond that, when these people are born, most medical persons will opt towards making the child one or the other via surgery.

As for gender, one could be very general and extrapolate that it is a matter of categorizing behaviors based on certain criterion. I prefer to discuss gender as it relates to our sexes. I think you do sociology and gender studies a disservice by making no difference in nomenclature in reference to male and female being viable terms for both sex and gender. However, I should like to point out that gender is assigned and is related to sets of expectations forced upon us. It is not the same as a chosen identity (exempli gratia: feminist, gay, queer, queen, bear, twink...so on and so forth). Of course, the gay identity becomes somewhat convoluted because of its roots in both the biological and the social. That is the reason I struck homosexual from the above list. I use homosexual to reference the biological imperative and the gay to resonate with the behaviors that suit the aforementioned desire.

I can see where confusion might arise as gender is generally a very large part of cultural heritage. It can be difficult, if not outright impossible, to separate the two in a significant and meaningful way.

I said that male and female could both be used to describe sex and gender and that they (the gender aspects of male and female) are built on expectations and how they view themselves and how other people see/dictate their "role" in society. Male and female are probably the most subjective as every culture has their own basic definitions of what a man and woman does in society.

Just so we're both on the same page, you believe gender is largely built on societal influences, right? I also have to ask, what would you call "roles" that people choose for themselves like feminist?

 

[Chill]

fatmanonice, your honesty is refreshing. I loved reading this as I have found myself victim in the recent past to some of these "friendly" gestures.

 

[Red the Ghost]

This made me feel sort of bad, as I've encouraged/done some of it (hugging, spending money on friends/being 'friendly') just to feel as though somebody was interested in me, even though I knew otherwise. Dammit.

It's a great read, though.

 

[GwJ]

I sensed someone hatin' on the Satanic Bible? Show yourself!

 

[Fatmanonice]

I sensed someone hatin' on the Satanic Bible? Show yourself!

If by "hatin" you mean using it in a joke then I guess that would be me.