Q&A Hint Block: Yoshi Question and Answer Thread

[Doublenickels]

For some reason when I do b-reverses I can only get it out if I do the directional input first but with enough of a delay that egg roll doesn't come out, it is unreliable, but I can hardly ever get the reversal by putting in the directional input after using B. I don't understand and it leaves me having to just work with accidental egg rolls once in a while.

 

[Forty4]

For some reason when I do b-reverses I can only get it out if I do the directional input first but with enough of a delay that egg roll doesn't come out, it is unreliable, but I can hardly ever get the reversal by putting in the directional input after using B. I don't understand and it leaves me having to just work with accidental egg rolls once in a while.

I get this problem, too. Just practice, and soon it will become second nature.

 

[Kevdo]

Definitely all true in my experience. Who are some of the better Yoshis playing in Smash 4? I feel like I have trouble finding people that use him competitively.

Amen to that. I'm really good in comparison to most of my friends, but at the same time I have to keep in mind that I haven't played in any tourneys yet and would probably get my face punched in.

I'm not sure who the top Yoshi players are, but I've been watching the Yoshi video thread for ideas. I've gone out to five tourneys now since January (1 was PM, always mained Yoshi). Slowly been improving my placings in Smash 4. Went 49/62, 13/39, 5/25, 7/35.

I think reading tips, looking at videos and playing online are all good things to do, but nothing compares to the experience and matchup knowledge of playing in a tournament with good players under direct pressure. I think that's the best way to learn.

Don't get me wrong, you'll get bodied. Your confidence will be destroyed. You might think competitive play isn't for you. But when you start seeing yourself improve, people at tournaments saying your Yoshi is good...It's all worth it in the end imo.

That's not to mention all the awesome people you meet at these events!

 

[devin]

Hey does anyone know any good combos for yoshi?

 

[Nikes]

My guide has a pretty decent combo section http://smashboards.com/guides/yoshis-story-survival-guide.27/
But your common ones are 2xUtilts > 2xUairs, double jab to dash attack, Nair strings, and eggs to basically anything.

 

[GSM_Dren]

Actually I saw some doubles footage of you from that other thread earlier today and I was pretty impressed for sure. I'll check out more of your videos.

As for the rest I'll definitely check out Raptor and Delta-cod.

I don't know a lot of them, but Raptor is a good one, along with some other Yoshis who frequent these boards, but it's hard to find tourney footage of Yoshi because he's so underused.

Yeah for sure, it seems that each region has its prominent 1-2 yoshis so getting videos from tournaments is a bit scarce. Sinister Slush though has plenty of footage I think it'd be a good idea to try and watch any regular yoshi posting on these boards. I have a couple tournament vids, and hopefully one of my crew mates uploads the rest of a recent tournament. Each yoshi I noticed has a different playstyle so you can pick apart what works/what doesn't work for them. For suggestions, Nikes and Slice come to mind as well. Japanese Yoshis like Yoshidora or Aiba play pretty flashy too. Hopefully we can get all our gameplay out there on the youtoobs.

Hey does anyone know any good combos for yoshi?

Grab release (while mashing munch on them) to jabs. Jabs to dash attack/grab (works more with DA). 2x Utilt to DJ uair. Egg toss into anything (nair, egg lay, fair). Uair to egg toss.

 

[Scatz]

My Yoshi is so different that you guys would probably be more confused about what I'm doing LOL. I have quite a bit of familiarity at least with pressuring in Smash 4.

 

[Nikes]

My Yoshi is so different that you guys would probably be more confused about what I'm doing LOL. I have quite a bit of familiarity at least with pressuring in Smash 4.

Trying to DR and just jumping around as a result instead. *sadface*

 

[Scatz]

Lol, I wish it was still in, but it's w/e. I've gotten to where I use little eggs in neutral, but almost always pressure from behind the opponent's shield. I just play stupid patient in neutral until I have a moment to get close.

 

[devin]

Any one have any tips to beat Link using yoshi?

 

[Nikes]

^ Actually this is a MU I think we need to look out for, it genuinely feels tough.

 

[wm1026]

^this oh my goodness. Honestly I think it's a losing matchup for us:/ His sword being invincible and to long for us to really get in safely is just awful. Then you throw in his spammable projectiles and absurd killing power, and you end up with a losing matchup. It's not too terribly bad maybe between 60:40 link and 55:45 link.

 

[Delta-cod]

I think we actually win when Link is playing campy and throws out his projectiles. Yoshi feels like a character that tends to beat out fortress-type characters in this game to me.

I'm not sure how Link boxes/spaces with his normals, but I'd imagine it gets more evenish there.

 

[Kevdo]

I've not seen any incredibly difficult Links yet. I usually just camp a campy Link by SH or FH an egg toss. Eventually they commit to something punishable and you can go in from there.

Perhaps skilled Link players pose more of a threat, I just haven't played any brutal ones yet.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I've played against I think 2 link's that're really good, not Izaw level of course, but still really good. Honestly feels like a +1 MU.

 

[wm1026]

My scene is pretty small, but probably the hardest player for me to play, plays link. I don't have as much problems with his other characters such as ness and falcon. I get caught by that problematic up smash and forward smash, plus the jab is ridiculous by the way. I don't know. I'm sure it needs more testing and I probably just need to get better, but I just can't see us having a positive matchup against link. At most to me it's even but I would lean more towards link having a slight advantage. I would absolutely love someone to prove me wrong with some great tech against link please??

 

[Delta-cod]

You might be trying to beat him too straightforwardly. Abuse our mobility and Link's lack of mobility more and you should see better results.

 

[Kevdo]

You might be trying to beat him too straightforwardly. Abuse our mobility and Link's lack of mobility more and you should see better results.

Yes, I think this is the way to go against Link.

 

[Nikes]

I just remember his Fair keeping me out whenever I tried to get in, but mind you that was online (not FG mode) so it could be a totally different story offline.

 

[Reaper Talk]

Maybe this question was asked before but I didn't find it but..
What are some good secondaries for Yoshi? I was thinking between Ness, Jiggs, or Mario/Luigi/Dr.Mario, though, I'm open to all suggestions

 

[Delta-cod]

Ness, is okay if you're looking for a not top tier one.

Or you could just play Diddy/Sheik. Falcon and Sonic are also acceptable, I guess. Basically anyone who can handle aggression or actually has a neutral game works.

 

[Kevdo]

Actually, that brings up a good point. Are there any matchups known yet that Yoshi should absolutely avoid?

While I can't think of any, it has a lot to do with the skill of the player behind the character.

 

[Reaper Talk]

I don't think Yoshi doesn't has any horrible match ups. Sheik is maybe a bad match up for us? That's the only character I immediately think Yoshi can have trouble with (sorry if I happen to be completely wrong and Yoshi is actually good against Sheik)

 

[Delta-cod]

Sheik.

We have no neutral game to speak of against Sheik. Good luck with that MU. Just pray you can get some jank hits in and abuse rage.

 

[Enoki]

I think it depends a huge amount on the pponent's playstyle rather than just character choice. Personally, I have issues with fox and kirby players who love approaching with aerials that have incredibly low landing lag. In those instances, it feels a bit simpler to play as someone with either range or a normal shield/grab.

And speaking of safe aerials, that you can't actually punish...

 

[Kevdo]

Yeah, I definitely have trouble against a good Sheik player. There's one player in particular (whom I respect for his skill) I know that mains a hell of a good Sheik. I've faced him in bracket at two tournaments, but I just couldn't pull ahead during either of the matches.

I've noticed that our double jump armor limits Sheik's bouncing fish kill potential, and that Sheik has some limits dealing with Yoshi's high recoveries (since we can still attack after it), but it's still pretty brutal. Does anyone play a good counter for the Sheik matchup?

Anyways not trying to make it a Sheik discussion, but I was wondering what common ideas are.

 

[Reaper Talk]

@ Kevdo
Rosaluma vs. Sheik,
I dont play Rosaluma though

 

[Codaption]

Ness, is okay if you're looking for a not top tier one.

Or you could just play Diddy/Sheik. Falcon and Sonic are also acceptable, I guess. Basically anyone who can handle aggression or actually has a neutral game works.

But isn't Ness a lot better this time around? He probably still isn't top tier, but without his weird grab-release lag I could easily see him being pretty darn viable.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I'd put him in top 10.

 

[Reaper Talk]

Ness's back throw all day

 

[Se7enSB]

I'm interested in playing Yoshi. Can I get a general sum of his strengths and weaknesses beause there is no Advanced guide to playing Yoshi, so I would like to improve the strengths and working on patching out his weaknesses.

 

[Reaper Talk]

Yoshi is a great character with a lot of options
If you're serious about Yoshi, learn how to control the height of his eggs and when to use them. They're an amazing zoning/spacing/approach tool.

Secondly, learn the sweet spots. Fair and Bair are great moves but get even better with proper sweet spotting (especially with fair).

Lastly, for general advice, be patient and don't force anything. Down B is a great for kills but can easily be punished if abused. Dair can rack up the damage but it shouldn't be relied on as an approach.
Hopefully that helps!

Yoshi isn't the hardest character to learn, just know what options you have and don't be afraid to mix it up a bit during a match
There are a lot of good Yoshis on this forum so listen to them too!
I don't have the link to the exact percentages for damage input but they're on a thread somewhere here

 

[Delta-cod]

I'm gonna give a conflicting opinion:

Yoshi is not a great character, perhaps a decent one.

He's mobile, heavy, and hits kinda hard, but lacks reliable tools to actually approach and get his stuff going. He also struggles in dealing with aggressive pressure, as his only answer is Nair, basically. Which isn't great.

If you want to learn him, you must learn how to control eggs, and you must become an expert at patience and the neutral game. You need to be familiar with everyone's options, what they're trying to do, and how Yoshi's moves can counteract that plan. It's a lot of work. Yoshi does not have a braindead flowcharty option to use against any good/decent character.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Otherwise if your opponent doesn't know how to fight against Yoshi nor knows what he does while calling him OP, then just toss your moves out everywhere and you'll get rewarded more than half the time.

 

[Enoki]

Problems:
Yoshi can't play like the other top characters (if Yoshi is a top character - I feel like he'll drop over time). A major adjustment needed to play as Yoshi is learning to use movement to avoid attacks rather than shielding or rolling, whenever possible. Furthermore, Yoshi doesn't have a fast grab or any follow ups, so no mindless damage strings except maybe for utilt. Yoshi also lacks range, and typically can't throw out kill moves without putting himself at risk. And this shouldn't really be an issue, but Yoshi can be gimped pretty easily if you aren't careful.
Good things:
Incredible air mobility which allows for good juggling and chasing, and generally he has good damage output. His air ability combined with eggs tends to trump most projectile spammers. His air mobility is made even trickier by b-reverses and egg throw momentum changes. His aerials aren't as good as say ZSS's, but he can throw out a lot of scary hitboxes. His jab and nair are very good for preventing combing. Yoshi is also heavy, which is always nice, and he does have strong kill options (but like I said, generally unsafe).
Eggs speak for themselves. They're one of the best projectiles in the game and define Yoshi as a character to some degree.

Overall, Yoshi is really good for punishing and chasing, especially against people who don't know the matchup. However, if you aren't careful, you can get punished quite hard, quite easily. Because he's so distinct, you really need to learn matchups. You have to know what Yoshi's options are in any situation, what works and what doesn't. It takes some patient, smart playing to be successful with him. But dang is he fun.

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

This matchup is the only one that truly frustrates me. I can take fox, ZSS, and CF, but this one seems so one sided. One of Sams only strengths is her aerial combo game, which Yoshi is immune to. Eggs will either trade or beat out my missiles. Every ground attack will beat mine, every aerial attack will beat mine, grab always seems to beat mine, dash attack into jab is pretty much unpunished OoS, Half of Yoshis aerials have no end lag... Basically, what can I do in this matchup? I'm up to my eyeballs in Yoshi salt.

 

[Reaper Talk]

Jumping out of shield is important too
Also, (not completely sure ), Yoshi's u-air has priority over other characters' dair most of the time, such as Link's dair

 

[Delta-cod]

This matchup is the only one that truly frustrates me. I can take fox, ZSS, and CF, but this one seems so one sided. One of Sams only strengths is her aerial combo game, which Yoshi is immune to. Eggs will either trade or beat out my missiles. Every ground attack will beat mine, every aerial attack will beat mine, grab always seems to beat mine, dash attack into jab is pretty much unpunished OoS, Half of Yoshis aerials have no end lag... Basically, what can I do in this matchup? I'm up to my eyeballs in Yoshi salt.

Merged with the Question and Answer thread.

 

[fuzyll]

I'm not new to Smash, but haven't ever put time into trying to be better than just those immediately around me before. If anyone could give me some pointers on this stuff, I'd really appreciate it. After losing 3/4 of my games online tonight (some of them just due to horrible lag, though), I've decided I need to change the following about my game:

* Stop throwing out stupid Down-Bs (I do this when frustrated for some reason, and it always gets punished)
* Learn how to reliably tech and SDI (seriously, I miss nearly every single opportunity for these)
* Use more Nair (I always forget jumping out of shield is an option)
* Use more short hop Up-Bs (is tossing an egg in front of us the only truly "safe" approach we have?)
* Get WAY better about sweet-spotting Fair (I miss them a lot)
* Be less aggressive (I love to be on offense, but I generally just wind up getting punished)

Some of these are pretty straight-forward, but I'm having a REALLY tough time figuring out the "be less aggressive" one. I get punished very often for using abilities that have fair amounts of ending lag (smashes, Bair, dash grabs, dash attacks) by someone just shielding or spot dodging. Do we have any safe ways of applying shield pressure that won't just get me jabbed to death or shield grabbed?

Also, are there any good strings or defensive options that shine during heavy lag? My internet is 100Mbps down and 10Mbps up and still every 2nd or 3rd player has noticeable lag. Other players seem to have adapted to this and just queue up inputs (had a G&W take me from 0 -> 70+% through lag just from what looked to be a memorized string of his). Is there either a fairly reliable string (assume the opponent isn't going to DI or move) or a common defensive maneuver (just spam spot dodges or something?) that would allow me to deal with low-input situations like this?

I've definitely settled on Yoshi as a main, but I've come to agree with what Delta-cod and Enoki have said above. Our dinosaur is awesome, but probably not "top tier" material for a few key reasons. But, I'm committed now, so I'd like to figure out how to deal with his (and my) weaknesses.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Do Up-B projectiles have some kind of glitched priority? Are they unclankable? It seems like whenever I try to swat them out of the air, I just get hit.