Q&A Hint Block: Yoshi Question and Answer Thread

[Sinister Slush]

If you wanna drag this topic on do so in pm and we can continue after Christmas shenanigans
Not the thread fer this.

 

[The Wall]

Whazza
The entirety of that post was all about you, only debateable part of it is maybe the first sentence. Which can be said with any character honestly.
>nairo Zelda beating nietono sheik


I never said all of your posts doesn't help people but that post in particular added nothing to the convo to help them. Just some stuff about you that everyone should apparently know about and a old meme to give motivation.

You can say Yoshi is capable of every mu, but again the players asking are not capable and they want advice on a secondary to deal with a character until they eventually can use yoshi only to win.

If anything you're kinda making a minor deal out of nothin'

Should I not be advocating for the character that this entire section of the forum is dedicated to? It's never a matter of 'is the player capable?', this is a character discussion forum. Yoshi is capable of being a solo main and able to take down all the big characters so long as you come in with the proper mindset and know what quirks your enemy has.

To elaborate on that a bit more... not every character has that capability. Sure the top echelon do like Sheik, ZSS, Rosa, Pikachu, etc. However there are plenty of characters with such glaringly bad matchups that it might be worth picking up a character to cover those flaws. What I am saying is that Yoshi does not have anything so bad that it's unwinnable by a large margin.

 

[Kylethh]

I actually don't mind the Sheik MU as compared to the Rosalina MU :3

 

[WalrusBiscuit]

What is Yoshis safest options out of shield?

 

[WalrusBiscuit]

Should I not be advocating for the character that this entire section of the forum is dedicated to? It's never a matter of 'is the player capable?', this is a character discussion forum. Yoshi is capable of being a solo main and able to take down all the big characters so long as you come in with the proper mindset and know what quirks your enemy has.

To elaborate on that a bit more... not every character has that capability. Sure the top echelon do like Sheik, ZSS, Rosa, Pikachu, etc. However there are plenty of characters with such glaringly bad matchups that it might be worth picking up a character to cover those flaws. What I am saying is that Yoshi does not have anything so bad that it's unwinnable by a large margin.

I know that this is out of the blue but what controlls do you use?


xD

 

[WalrusBiscuit]

Is it worth learning yoshis frame data?

 

[Sinister Slush]

Edit posts next time walrus.
Only important thing for yoshi is having tap jump off.

You don't need to memorize every moves frame data, just memorize the best and worst moves for him. Check the stickies for the frame data thread and other important stuff.

 

[The Wall]

What is Yoshis safest options out of shield?

If you want 'safe' options, stick to nair while fading away out of shield. That leaves you literally unpunishable. If you're trying to catch someone being too aggressive, jabs can be very useful (especially since jab 1 can link into a lot of things)

I know that this is out of the blue but what controlls do you use?

No rumble, C-stick to tilts, Shield on Z, Grab on R, Special on L, Tap jump off, A+B smash off.

Is it worth learning yoshis frame data?

It's worth learning everyone's frame data really. If you can't handle that kind of memorization, stick to the top tier characters that you know will get used frequently and give you trouble. Knowing that you have a frame 3 jab yet ZSS has a frame 1 jab can be important in decision making out of say... a grab release.

 

[Delta-cod]

Regarding frame data knowledge, I think it's good to know specific things about frame interactions, but memorizing ALL of the frame data for everyone isn't entirely necessary.

For example, as The Wall said, knowing things like how fast someone's jab is is good for thinking about grab release situations, or when you clank.

It's also good to know how slow certain common moves are so you can think about punishes. For example: Diddy will try to kill with Fsmash. If you shield it, how many frames do you have to punish? is this enough for an Usmash OOS? in this case, you'd want to know Diddy's frame disadvantage on shield and how fast Usmash OOS is. This way you know if trying to get an Usmash punish (maybe a game winning kill) is a good idea. Stuff like this is important.

Knowing how much jump squat/invulnerable frames people have on spotdodges, etc isn't quite as needed.

 

[Deleted member]

What are Yoshi's most basic combos, and what are his best approach options in neutral? I wanna know some egg follow-ups as well.

 

[Sinister Slush]

His most basic combo is Utilt x2 into Uair 1-3 times depending on % and weight of the character.
Best approach options in neutral depending on MU too basically consists of throwing eggs till one lands for hits or just throwing fairs out to start strings.

If you're sitting in shield against Yoshi than he'll most likely try to float around you and neutral B you since the only options he can do if people want to hold the L or R button is attempt to 1. break it with downb guesses or 2. Shield poke with Dair.

I'd type more but I'm sorta in a rush.

 

[DwarfSkippy]

So I'm having trouble approaching as Yoshi, typically I just short hop nair or try to space fairs, and I'm not sure if this is the most optimal way of playing Yoshi. If my opponent catches on to this they often shield/perfect shield by nairs and either grab me out of the air or punish me with something harder than a grab. Anyone got any ideas/ways of combating this, or other approach options for Yoshi? Please dump all your information here!!

 

[madluk]

sup everyone, Is there a page dedicated to the double jump heavy armor? if so can anyone direct me to it or if its buried in one of the threads let me know which thread its buried in so I can find it?

 

[WalrusBiscuit]

Saw that someone thinks that Battlefield is yoshis worst stage. Why is that?

So I'm having trouble approaching as Yoshi, typically I just short hop nair or try to space fairs, and I'm not sure if this is the most optimal way of playing Yoshi. If my opponent catches on to this they often shield/perfect shield by nairs and either grab me out of the air or punish me with something harder than a grab. Anyone got any ideas/ways of combating this, or other approach options for Yoshi? Please dump all your information here!!

You can try to approach with eggs, usually works for me. Also try and mix up spacing fairs and bairs.

 

[DwarfSkippy]

Saw that someone thinks that Battlefield is yoshis worst stage. Why is that?

Battlefield may be one of Yoshi's best stages. He can move around the stage amazingly well with the platforms and his air mobility, his uptilt and upsmash go through the bottom platforms, and he can get some tech chasing shenanigans with upthrow (I believe) while under the platforms onto the platforms.

 

[Codaption]

Yoshi does pretty well on all stages, so it's not like there'd be much of a gap. Platforms do mess up with our eggs, though, so that could be why.

 

[HoSmash4]

As a sheik getting hit by yoshi fair spike when grounded, what % does it not cause any knockback and what %s will i still have frame advantage after getting hit by yoshi fair on the ground? Is this dependant on the spacing as well?

 

[marteen_]

It's the control scheme I've been using since I first started playing in Brawl, and I feel like I can't find a good control scheme on the GC controller without having tap jump on for me. (I have tried using a GC controller at school a number of times, but it just didn't flow with me) I also don't find it worthwhile to spend $25-35 to get a GC controller and an adapter.

Now, how much am I limited if I use wiichucks? I know I'm pretty much screwed in the way of wavebouncing, but I know perfect pivots are still very much possible, albeit very difficult with tilts.

If yall need to know, I use default settings -TJ and have down on the dpad as grab.

 

[xIvan321]

I find it funny i trecked this board at perfect timing. It is a coincidence that i am also a Wiichuck player and what Wiichuck could offer you is glide tossing that is typically large at length which can be quite useful for closing stockd. Mega Man for instance gets a lot more millage on this tech since he can summon metal blades and pick them up. However this requires a complete layout configuration, but still, that tech is only easier on our controller. Plus i'd highly recommend to avoid default settings if you can.

The other pro to the wiichuck is you can set the dpad to smash and it doesnt charge allowing for smash stick and RARing momentum to be left uneffected.

The only real big draw back to the wiichuck is during larger tournaments, these tend to get banned and are notorious for slowing down events due to players stuffing their controllers back in their back packs and not removing the batteries. However it is always more considerate if you have it out at all times instead and batteries removed. This is one field where GC remotes dominate here.

I hope that helps clear up any confusion, and feel free to ask my settings if you are curious unless of course default is what you are comfortable with.

 

[phili]

Idk if this has been asked already, but can Yoshi shield drop? I can do it with every other character but I can't do it with Yoshi and I don't understand why. He can shield drop in melee. Someone please let me know, because I got all excited about shield drop up air and now I don't think its possible

Also, my theory is that he can't actually do it and it has something to do with the fact that he can't tilt his shield. He can't do this in melee tho and he can still shield drop, so maybe i'm way off here

 

[Choco]

I'm sorry if this is a repost, since it seems like the type of question that someone would have asked at some point. If so, please direct me.

Otherwise, my question is, as a Yoshi main, who is your secondary, and why? I mostly struggle against characters I don't know how to approach (like Sonic, Cloud, ZSS, Luigi), and I'm wondering who would be a good secondary to counteract those kinds of characters. I've been thinking about Mario, Diddy, or Rosa, but I'm not sure if they're the right secondary for the situation. What do you think?

 

[Pelagia]

I am also a Yoshi main so I can relate to your situation. I would say that Rosalina would be a favorable pick even though she is hard to get into first. Though I would suggest to play defensive against Sonic and Luigi because most of the players I have encounter so far are quite agressive with those characters.

The thing is Rosalina has one of the best if not the best defensive skills of all the characters. Even though I did not not really play agaisnt many Rosalina I can tell that if you master her she is really hard to beat. ZSS however is your biggest treat because her punish game is amazing but I don't know if you can still attack with luma while you are in a combo.

Even though I am not a Rosalina expert I would still suggest her if you have time to learn her. Hope it helped you!

 

[Delta-cod]

I'm sorry if this is a repost, since it seems like the type of question that someone would have asked at some point. If so, please direct me.

Otherwise, my question is, as a Yoshi main, who is your secondary, and why? I mostly struggle against characters I don't know how to approach (like Sonic, Cloud, ZSS, Luigi), and I'm wondering who would be a good secondary to counteract those kinds of characters. I've been thinking about Mario, Diddy, or Rosa, but I'm not sure if they're the right secondary for the situation. What do you think?

The thing about Yoshi is that he only really struggles against the top tier characters. The only really good secondaries to pick up, as a result, are the top tier characters, and at that point you might as well main them.

Yoshi does not struggle so much that he NEEDS a secondary. It's an uphill battle, sure, but a secondary isn't necessary to win, you just need to be better than your opponent. So long as you're better, you should win in most cases.

If you're looking to pick someone up, I'd recommend one of the top. So of the three you listed, I'd leave out Mario -- I don't think he cuts it. He doesn't really cover Yoshi's problems well enough, and I think he has the same issues as Yoshi in regard to the top tier.

 

[Choco]

I am also a Yoshi main so I can relate to your situation. I would say that Rosalina would be a favorable pick even though she is hard to get into first. Though I would suggest to play defensive against Sonic and Luigi because most of the players I have encounter so far are quite agressive with those characters.

The thing is Rosalina has one of the best if not the best defensive skills of all the characters. Even though I did not not really play agaisnt many Rosalina I can tell that if you master her she is really hard to beat. ZSS however is your biggest treat because her punish game is amazing but I don't know if you can still attack with luma while you are in a combo.

Even though I am not a Rosalina expert I would still suggest her if you have time to learn her. Hope it helped you!

Thanks! I'll consider Rosa but I'll wait to hear more responses. The thing about Sonic and Luigis, is that there are a lot of campy Sonic/Luigi in my area.

The thing about Yoshi is that he only really struggles against the top tier characters. The only really good secondaries to pick up, as a result, are the top tier characters, and at that point you might as well main them.

Yoshi does not struggle so much that he NEEDS a secondary. It's an uphill battle, sure, but a secondary isn't necessary to win, you just need to be better than your opponent. So long as you're better, you should win in most cases.

If you're looking to pick someone up, I'd recommend one of the top. So of the three you listed, I'd leave out Mario -- I don't think he cuts it. He doesn't really cover Yoshi's problems well enough, and I think he has the same issues as Yoshi in regard to the top tier.

Fair enough, but I want to be able to at least beat the people who I feel I'm smarter than and have played longer than. But there's people I lost to because of characters I feel. Yea, I could have played better, but it would be nice to have another character I can fall back on in those situations.

 

[Delta-cod]

Fair enough, but I want to be able to at least beat the people who I feel I'm smarter than and have played longer than. But there's people I lost to because of characters I feel. Yea, I could have played better, but it would be nice to have another character I can fall back on in those situations.

Please don't Double Post. Use the edit function or the multiquote options (hit the '+quote' button on all posts you wish to reply to).

I understand that feeling. In that case, you want Sheik/Diddy/Rosy. In that case, you should always win if you're better, and you can even beat people you're not better than due to the strength of their options.

 

[Choco]

Oops, sorry I'm new to this. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Pelagia]

Am I the only one that thinks that yoshi is hard to master. I mean he got some good options, he can jump out of shield, he got amazing recovery and aerial yet I think I never saw a yoshi win any tournament. Okay let's say close to win any tournament because Zer0 kind of won all of them except one if I'm not mistaken.

Well I did get in semi-final in a local tournament but let's say that the difficulty was not pro level till quarter-final.

 

[Choco]

Am I the only one that thinks that yoshi is hard to master. I mean he got some good options, he can jump out of shield, he got amazing recovery and aerial yet I think I never saw a yoshi win any tournament. Okay let's say close to win any tournament because Zer0 kind of won all of them except one if I'm not mistaken.

Well I did get in semi-final in a local tournament but let's say that the difficulty was not pro level till quarter-final.

He's definitely hard. Esam has tried, but not really had any results with Yoshi. I've seen him lose in locals around here when he tries to use Yoshi.

 

[Codaption]

Idk if this has been asked already, but can Yoshi shield drop? I can do it with every other character but I can't do it with Yoshi and I don't understand why. He can shield drop in melee. Someone please let me know, because I got all excited about shield drop up air and now I don't think its possible

Also, my theory is that he can't actually do it and it has something to do with the fact that he can't tilt his shield. He can't do this in melee tho and he can still shield drop, so maybe i'm way off here

Nobody answered this so I'll get to it. No, Yoshi cannot shield drop in this game- we lost if for the ability to jump oos. I'd say it was a fair tradeoff, though, especially with how difficult shield dropping is in this game.

 

[phili]

Nobody answered this so I'll get to it. No, Yoshi cannot shield drop in this game- we lost if for the ability to jump oos. I'd say it was a fair tradeoff, though, especially with how difficult shield dropping is in this game.

I'd take jumping out of shield any day over shield dropping, so I can live with this. Its sad that every other character in the game can do both and yoshi cant, but then again yoshi cant get shield poked.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[SlaySD]

What are the better egg toss + x combos? I have been using Fair near ledge, Upair for kills and Dair when I think they'll airdodge.

 

[Pelagia]

What are the better egg toss + x combos? I have been using Fair near ledge, Upair for kills and Dair when I think they'll airdodge.

I'd say that those are the basic combos, personally I often use dash attack (I know it is risky and easily punishable but I just love dash attacks.) Also, you can kill with the egg if you Upair then throw your egg straight up. I would say the egg throw is used for spacing rather than combo but I am slowly to start maining Yoshi so I could be wrong.

 

[marteen_]

I'd say that those are the basic combos, personally I often use dash attack (I know it is risky and easily punishable but I just love dash attacks.) Also, you can kill with the egg if you Upair then throw your egg straight up. I would say the egg throw is used for spacing rather than combo but I am slowly to start maining Yoshi so I could be wrong.

Eggs can also be used as a sort of frame trap if you land one, allowing you to be able to immediately follow up with an attack after landing an egg. That being said, they're also good for setting up combos or kills.

 

[Pelagia]

Eggs can also be used as a sort of frame trap if you land one, allowing you to be able to immediately follow up with an attack after landing an egg. That being said, they're also good for setting up combos or kills.

I will take that into consideration next time I do some rounds with my bro. Oh and btw do any of you have a good set up to input down B into a potential combo?

 

[Skitrel]

What are the better egg toss + x combos? I have been using Fair near ledge, Upair for kills and Dair when I think

Missing in the responses you've had is its situational use in a tech scenario. When your opponent is getting up or going to tech they have 4 options:

1. Roll left.
2. Roll right.
3. Get up attack.
4. Get up in place.

An egg thrown behind the opponent will hit them on get up. This gives Yoshi the option to cover one or sometimes both other possibilities with either an attack or egglay(or turnaround egglay).

Timing is tight, but Yoshi can use his eggs as combo extenders if opponents are silly enough to go to ground rather than jumping out.

If they jump out, obviously you go to uairs and maintain just as strong an advantage.

This technique is especially deadly against the large opponents who have poor and slow techs. I do not recommend it against opponents with multiple jumps like Dedede and Charizard though, over aggression against them will earn you a jump that causes you to whiff followed by a swift bair or fair to your face.

 

[phili]

What are the better egg toss + x combos? I have been using Fair near ledge, Upair for kills and Dair when I think they'll airdodge.

Egg > upsmash is also very reliable at mid percents if you short hop and toss the egg just in front of you, then upsmash as soon as you land. Timing is a bit different but I use this one all the time.

Also, egg > nair is good for dealing quick damage

 

[BreakBeatKing]

I have a friend who I frequently play Smash 4 friendlies with. I've never had any experience in Smash's competitive scene, but I have had experience with other fighting games in the past. My friend, on the other hand, used to play Melee and Brawl competitively. He mains Yoshi in Smash 4, and he swears to me up and down that Yoshi's Egg Lay is useless garbage. Now, I've watched enough competitive matches to see that people definitely utilize the move, but he is adamant that Egg Lay is not good and refuses to use it. What uses does Egg Lay have that my friend isn't seeing?

 

[marteen_]

I have a friend who I frequently play Smash 4 friendlies with. I've never had any experience in Smash's competitive scene, but I have had experience with other fighting games in the past. My friend, on the other hand, used to play Melee and Brawl competitively. He mains Yoshi in Smash 4, and he swears to me up and down that Yoshi's side B (Egg Lay) is useless garbage. Now, I've watched enough competitive matches to see that people definitely utilize the move, but he is adamant that Egg Lay is not good and refuses to use it. What uses does Egg Lay have that my friend isn't seeing?

- It's B reversable, making it a good mixup tool.
- It can stop your opponents momentum.
- Cheeky offstage kills.
- Egg Lay + a Smash Attack is good damage.
- Ignores shields like a grab would.
- Yoshi's grab game is terribad now.

 

[Codaption]

It's also a pretty good way to set up 50/50 situations, which can lead to a kill.

(also, Egg Lay is Yoshi's neutral special. His side special is Egg Roll, which is actually not all that great of a move.)

 

[muddykips]

Yoshi's side B (Egg Lay) is useless garbage.

yeah, pretty sure he means egg roll. there's no way anyone who plays yoshi thinks his neutralb is bad.

egg roll isn't all that great, though i still think it can have some use, e.g. it can be good for catching opponents trying to land.