Q&A Hint Block: Yoshi Question and Answer Thread

[HFlash]

Even ZSS? I know for sure she does better vs shiek but Pika? Idk.
Edit: I always though Yoshi did pretty well vs. Pika. If not, why so?

 

[BenGFox]

Something to consider, ZSS's NAir is one of her main tools in the neutral but because Pika is so short he can be quite difficult to hit with it (:

 

[pato_]

Ugh, I'm looking for another character to cover up the Shiek and Pika MU and I really like playing Yoshi. Other characters I'm looking into are and possibly .

I'm just gonna add a bit to your question, hope you don't mind...

I seem to always get obliterated by ZSS both online and in person, I can't seem to do anything against her. I am considering adding as a secondary either Mario or Pikachu, I have fun with both and seem to get a bit better results with Mario but who would you guys recommend as a a Yoshi secondary?

And any tips against ZSS would be greatly appreciated. (I obviously have trouble against Sheik as well but meh, I'm not that worried about that).

 

[HFlash]

P pato_ Pika is probably ZSS' worst MU. She can't safely poke with her SH aerials (which make up a big part of her neutral). Plus, certain moves like grab and jab 1 consistently miss Pika due to his/her small stature. If you started playing those 2, of course you are going to get better results with Mario. He is a much easier and intuitive character than Pikachu. Pikachu is a character that is seldom not mained, due to how easy it is to SD when playing with him.

 

[G_Baby]

Hey guys,

Just wondering, is there a general button layout that is considered optimal with Yoshi? If it is "depends on the player" is the common layout used (like L/R shield tap jump etc...) considered sub-optimal?

 

[Delta-cod]

Hey guys,

Just wondering, is there a general button layout that is considered optimal with Yoshi? If it is "depends on the player" is the common layout used (like L/R shield tap jump etc...) considered sub-optimal?

We had a little discussion on this a page back, if you're interested in checking out some button arrangements people use.

I think the best layout is the one that you are most comfortable with, so long as you have something like a C-stick and enough buttons for everything.

I think tap jump off is ideal though, since it allows us to throw eggs without burning our DJ more easily while recovering.

 

[G_Baby]

Thanks for the info ill look for that post.

Also who are some notable Yoshis? I know we have a video thread on these boards but I want to compile a few videos of notable yoshis and group them together.

 

[Pixel_]

What's the best way to use Up-B to approach, or really, in general?
I'm mostly looking for an easy setup to limit the opponent's options or whatever, but I'm fine with anything.

 

[Delta-cod]

What's the best way to use Up-B to approach, or really, in general?
I'm mostly looking for an easy setup to limit the opponent's options or whatever, but I'm fine with anything.

If you're looking to approach with Egg Toss, your best bet is using SH or FH Egg Toss while drifting towards your opponent. You want to get the egg to sort of fall in front of you as your drop onto your opponent, locking them into shield or some defensive option, giving you time to pressure. A basic follow up is SHET (Forces shield) > falling Egg Lay.

However, this is very vulnerable to having people just run under you. It's not a terribly fast option, so use it wisely. I'm not too big a fan of jumping around all the time.

 

[Pixel_]

If you throw the egg in front or behind the opponent, is it effective at all?

 

[Delta-cod]

While approaching them with a SHET?

If so, in front is probably better than behind. You'd rather cut off their approach option (running under you), as it makes the approach safer. If you throw it jusssst slightly in front of them, you can probably get them to shield anyways.

Behind isn't really better than directly at them or in front of them, in my opinion. Unless you have a good read on what they'll do.

 

[TheRedLemming]

So, I actually have a question, how difficult is Yoshi?
I'm fairly decent and see some success in my local scene with him, as well as among some internet friends, but how difficult is yoshi in a technical sense?
I would put Characters like Ryu up near the top of difficulty where Ness might fall more near the bottom, and while this doesn't negate the character as a character, I've been getting people scoffing that Yoshi is "easy to use" despite them not using him to any success against me.

 

[Delta-cod]

I don't think Yoshi is technically difficult, unless you want to really try implementing some niche stuff into your gameplay.

What Yoshi is, is unconventional. His double jump, his recovery, the way he moves, heavy yet floatyish, it all adds up to be a package that doesn't quite mesh well with the rest of the cast. Meaning that basics, which carry over really well between most characters, don't carry quite as hard with Yoshi -- he demands more familiarity for success. Characters in a similar boat are Rosy and Olimar.

Yoshi has been normalized a bit, as has the entire cast, with the introduction of this game. But he's still kinda "out there" as far as character feels go. Which means people can't just pick up and play him quite as easily as they could anyone else.

 

[Kitzu]

I'm wondering any good secondaries to support Yoshi. I've recently got into Samus if that helps.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

So, I actually have a question, how difficult is Yoshi?
I'm fairly decent and see some success in my local scene with him, as well as among some internet friends, but how difficult is yoshi in a technical sense?
I would put Characters like Ryu up near the top of difficulty where Ness might fall more near the bottom, and while this doesn't negate the character as a character, I've been getting people scoffing that Yoshi is "easy to use" despite them not using him to any success against me.

I'm gonna put it like this. Yoshi is super easy to use if you use him. If you don't use him you might as well be playing a different game. It's not nearly as jarring as it was in brawl, but it's still there. Even if you main a super technical character and have strong fundamentals, Yoshi will throw you the **** off despite being easy to play. Does that make sense?

Now I have a question: Games been out for over a year now but has been patched a ton. What do you think i should put in the FAQ? Should I just make it a TL;DR to yoshi?

 

[Kitzu]

CelestialMarauder~ what does TL:DR mean?

 

[TheRedLemming]

CelestialMarauder~ what does TL:DR mean?

"Too long; Didn't read"
I primarily use Yoshi, but I'm starting to see some difficulty in technical stuff? It might be because I'm trying to do stuff that might be too advanced for me currently, or I'm trying to use stuff that simply isn't necessary with Yoshi in order to find ways to further him, or something like that.

 

[Kitzu]

TheRedLemming such as what though?

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

"Too long; Didn't read"
I primarily use Yoshi, but I'm starting to see some difficulty in technical stuff? It might be because I'm trying to do stuff that might be too advanced for me currently, or I'm trying to use stuff that simply isn't necessary with Yoshi in order to find ways to further him, or something like that.

That's a good thing. Pretty much means you're trying to evolve as a player. No there are some technical aspects to yoshi, but the thing is you don't need them to use Yoshi. IMO THE FUTURE OF YOSHI IS WAVEBOUNCED EGGS THO. YA HEARD IT HERE FIRST KIDS. For the most Part playing this character is just knowing how he works. Know his range, know his frame traps, know his shield damage, know everything. It's just a bunch of specific game knowledge to memorize and not much of it is very technically difficult to execute.

 

[Pixel_]

I'm wondering any good secondaries to support Yoshi. I've recently got into Samus if that helps.

Already been answered over in the MU thread
VVV

Try Sheik and Diddy. They should beat Yoshi. I don't think any other character is quite advantaged as these two. Most of Yoshi's MUs against good characters are evenish.

Rosalina might also be a character worth trying, but that MU not be bad for Yoshi unless you're REALLY good with her. I don't think it's bad period, but I don't have much experience to back that claim.

For the most Part playing this character is just knowing how he works. Know his range, know his frame traps, know his shield damage, know everything.

What frame traps are there? Is there/should there be a thread for this?

 

[Kitzu]

Pixel_ Thanks, but I hate Sheik and Diddy, not people who use them or use them for being top tier, or because they are top tier, I mean as in how they work. If Link and R.O.B are good for Yoshi too I have experience with them and use them every so often.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Pixel_ well they're mostly on airdodges. Like airdodging a lot of Yoshi's moves leads to us getting a different move for free. Airdodging upair late can lead to another upair, air dodging upair and fair leads to free nairs, air dodging eggs can lead to an aerial of our choice at times. iirc theres some stuff with jab where even tho things aren't true combos, the opponent only has one option to escape etc etc. We probably don't have a thread because we don't exactly have a compendium of random yoshi knowledge anymore. Most finding from people labbing around get lost in the social thread

 

[TheRedLemming]

My favorite frame traps involve eggs and Uair kills, because weirdly people don't see it coming, Celestial - Wavebounced when? Grounded or Aerial egg toss?

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Aerial. If we ever find a way to consistently do them the mobility they offer is insane. Imo grounded wavebounced eggs are borderline useless, but idk maybe im missing something there.

 

[TheRedLemming]

If you have the inputs down well enough to be able to consistently do them, they have a similar (albeit not as much as due to not being able to attack out of it immediately) usefulness as dashing in and then wavedashing out in Melee/PM especially against the Falcon MU.

 

[Kitzu]

Egg Toss - N-air is something I do a lot. If it sends them off stage, because of the angle N-air sends opponents I find it fairly easy to F-air spike them.

 

[madluk]

Sup Yoshi boards, been lurkin around for awhile lookin at some stuff sometimes, but been quiet. There's that "new" lagless ledge option thats shown up, does anyone know if it works for yoshi?

 

[Sinister Slush]

Yes it works for Yoshi, I believe in the 3DS days the first couple characters people randomly found it on was lucina or marth and Yoshi.
I think this honestly might work for everyone on almost every tourney legal stage.

 

[Masonomace]

Sup again Yoshi boards. Question here:

Q: How much frames of armor does Yoshi's doublejump have?

EDIT: OH. I just found the answer to my question, nvm then. Sorry for the posting question. Can someone remove this post?

 

[Sinister Slush]

It's fine, for any future questions just go through Aerodrome/Yika's threads, mine is outed since Aero recently finished his.
Also why hasn't Delta still stickied Yika's thread?! Why aren't you on skype anymore either mang

 

[Delta-cod]

It's fine, for any future questions just go through Aerodrome/Yika's threads, mine is outed since Aero recently finished his.
Also why hasn't Delta still stickied Yika's thread?! Why aren't you on skype anymore either mang

Do you mean this thread of Yika's? http://smashboards.com/threads/yoshi-frame-and-misc-data-thread-wip.391441/

I had taken a quick glance through when Aero had redone the data for Yoshi, and thought that all the data in Yika's was present in Aero's, so I didn't see a reason for them to both be stickied.

Upon inspection, Yika's data is a bit more thorough, in that it includes some things that Aero doesn't (ledge attacks/get up, pummels, techs, airtimes, etc.), so it does warrant a sticky of some sort.

I don't see a reason to have both threads stickied though, due to the tons of overlap between the content. I'll crosscheck the data between the two and figure out what to do.

Regarding Skype, my computer is a potato and Skype significantly slows it down. So I've stopped using it.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Mostly meant because Yika's was up like 6 months before Aero finished his, otherwise yes there's no reason to have both as a sticky.

Do we need to actually move to discord like scatzbot said? I'm willing too if the other veterans feel like it since skype is clunky and STILL DOESN'T SHOW ME EVERYONES PICS THEY POST OR THEIR AVATARS.

 

[Masonomace]

I just came back to say that I agree to you guys moving to Discord, and aye to Yika's thread getting a sticky. Discord's worth it btw. Also, another question:

Q: Is there any Draconic ATs in this game like there was in Brawl?

I've come across certain moments where I'd be near a surface on the ground like Lylat Cruise, & I'd drift while doublejumping at the same time & my eyes would focus on me not being in the air but rather on the ground from a bit of a slide.

 

[Sinister Slush]

UGGGG
guess I need to download discord on my laptop now.

There's no Yoshi techs that involves double jump cancels, cause those don't really exist anymore since the change in his DJ. Dunno fully what you mean by Lylat tho

 

[JBones]

I'm aware that there are different styles of play with yoshi, like offensive, defensive, and special I think it's called.
Anyone have footage of special and defensive styles? I play offensively and keep losing to extremely defensive players in neutral

 

[Pixel_]

How useful is Side-B? Is there a way to really use it well?
I'm mostly thinking of this video, which you should definitely watch, lol

Somebody answer the question above mine...

 

[Cubone]

I was playing with a friend the other day and I somehow only hit him with the second hit of Bair offstage and he fell to his death, is that something consistent or was it just a bug? I really wish I had thought to save the replay

 

[TheRedLemming]

Pixel_ There are definitely ways to use it well, I use it as a mixup, a fun thing I found is that if FH and Side B at the peak on Battlefield from under the middle platform, you will land on that platform, and go like you did it from the ground, it's a convenient mixup that isn't too hard to time, I'm working on getting it down on the lower platforms as well, but the best I've found so far is for that top one, and it can mess up landings and get up options and is a mixup against using, say, Uair, or Bair, or Fair.

I was playing with a friend the other day and I somehow only hit him with the second hit of Bair offstage and he fell to his death, is that something consistent or was it just a bug? I really wish I had thought to save the replay

The Second hit of Bair is a non-meteor spike, that sends your opponent down, nearly straight, it's a pretty consistent thing if you can do it consistently.

 

[JBones]

Any advice for playing people that only wait for you to overextend and punish you for it?
Kinda like that campy fox posted above. That stuff drives me insane. Not fun at all

 

[Delta-cod]

Any advice for playing people that only wait for you to overextend and punish you for it?
Kinda like that campy fox posted above. That stuff drives me insane. Not fun at all

The best thing to do in this case is to abuse their defensiveness. If all they're doing is waiting for you to overextend, all you need to do is not overextend. They'll probably keep their distance waiting for you to screw up, so you can just keep slowly inching them back towards the ledge, where you can capitalize on their poor positioning.