Q&A Hint Block: Yoshi Question and Answer Thread

[Delta-cod]

I was wondering what I should practice to get better with the character.

Merged with Q&A thread.

I think the best place to start is just playing with the character. Do Classic and All Star mode with Yoshi. Get good at it. Beat up your friends with Yoshi. Just get comfortable controlling him at a basic level.

After that you should look at more specific things. Egg Toss tricks, B reversal/turnaround/wavebounce egg lay, etc. There's a lot of movement tech to be learned, but you should just get a good feel for basic Yoshi first.

 

[WalrusBiscuit]

Well I am fairly experienced with the character so Im gonna go ahead and take a look at the more specific things

 

[YoHeKing]

How experienced. Whats your playstyle? Ive been helping alot of Yoshi mains lately who have just started out and stuff. So I would like to get better at it.

 

[WalrusBiscuit]

How experienced. Whats your playstyle? Ive been helping alot of Yoshi mains lately who have just started out and stuff. So I would like to get better at it.

I have gone to 2 local tournaments and one of the best in the tournament told me that my Yoshi was scary. I like to switch from playing aggressivley to patiently.

 

[YoHeKing]

Really depends. Playing aggresive really depends on the MU. Like when im up against olimar I have to play the most boring way ever so Its good to play patient. Also don't drop aggresive playstyle. It can help in the future.

A good way to play patient is actually against sword fighters. Sword fighter may have worse frame data but they are safe behind the sword while Yoshi actually uses his body to attack which makes the sword almost outdo every aeral of his. Thats when the eggs come in to save you and make the MU really easy.

Then theres MUs like villager. You have to play a rushdown/patient playstyle. Once you get his stock off you want to spam eggs as much as you can before you die.

Then the MU like mario. You really cant camp at all but your most better off making walls of aerials and going rushdown.

Anything you specifically have trouble with? If not GL as a Yoshi main!

 

[WalrusBiscuit]

This was really helpful! Im actually copypasting this into my notes xD. Im also giving you a follow :D

EDIT: I have trouble with MU: Sonic, Sheik, Dark Pit and Toon Link

 

[YoHeKing]

Sheik I can't help you with. Its one of those MUs most yoshis hate besides me and some others. And I dont really know how I beat so many in the first place.

If your having trouble with toon link thats a bit weird? Maybe not enough MU experience but I would imagen you having trouble getting past the projectile wall.

First off.. Yoshis double jump can easily get through that projectile wall but it can be predictable so I would 2nd jump through all those projectiles untill they catch on.
Toon Link or Links grabs are not that scary so I would sheild more often then dodge. Also link and toonlink (not as bad as link) has alot of englag with most of there moves so you shouldnt be in a hurry of dropping your sheild.
If you want to play patiently you should probably full hop eggs and not ground or short hop eggs because the eggs can get in the projectile wall pretty good from above.
Also try not to attack toon link directly above or below because remember the sword outdos yoshis range and has a big long hitbox also keep in mind of bombs. You can really aggressive if there spamming bombs but you need alot of good spacing.

Dark pit not sure how you could have trouble. Maybe if you explain.

And sonic is a bit complex. If you DI torwards and up sonic as he spin dashes its almost impossible for him get an actual good combo. B reversals are pretty good though when you get close. Not the safest option just make sure its unpreditable because sonics dont spin dash when you are close but they use tilts and smashes.

Running into sheild and trying to bait out the spin dash is a good option and up smash is pretty safe somtimes when there charging at you. If you miss the sonic flys right under you but I wouldnt really advise doing this if you dont have good precision.

 

[WalrusBiscuit]

How do I practice b reversal?

 

[YoHeKing]

What ever you do do not do it fast. How I practiced it was first press b then a second later press the oppisite dirrection on the stick. Practice many times. Then after awhile go left/right to half a second after you press b. Make susure you have the exact timing. Then after that do it faster but not at the same time. Press b then about 1/4 of a second you can simply just hold the dicrection you want to b reverse without flicking. And get faster till you get it.

Then I would advise to practice it at least 10 minutes once you getting the rhythm down.

There shouldnt be any mashing or rough movements at all during this or your not doing it right.

 

[WalrusBiscuit]

What ever you do do not do it fast. How I practiced it was first press b then a second later press the oppisite dirrection on the stick. Practice many times. Then after awhile go left/right to half a second after you press b. Make susure you have the exact timing. Then after that do it faster but not at the same time. Press b then about 1/4 of a second you can simply just hold the dicrection you want to b reverse without flicking. And get faster till you get it.

Then I would advise to practice it at least 10 minutes once you getting the rhythm down.

There shouldnt be any mashing or rough movements at all during this or your not doing it right.

This really helped! I am really starting to get good at b reversal now :D

 

[Baron Omega]

Hey guys I was just wanting to ask how would you guys deal with the matchup with metaknight against Yoshi because I seem to have a problem when dealing with him in tourney. Every time I have versed him I have gotten close to beating him but at the same time I wasn't comfortable throughout the whole thing so I was needing to know if u guys know what to do and if so how do you deal with him plus counterpicks would be good to know against him plus in general what stages are the best for Yoshi?? sometimes I think I understand in some situations but at the same time I kinda don't understand hahah so any advice would help

Thanks

 

[YoHeKing]

What are you having trouble with in battle? Have any video? FD Duck Hunt(probably the best for this MU). Try to avoid the platform heavy places due to his amazing tech and platform chases with tornado.

Hey guys I was just wanting to ask how would you guys deal with the matchup with metaknight against Yoshi because I seem to have a problem when dealing with him in tourney. Every time I have versed him I have gotten close to beating him but at the same time I wasn't comfortable throughout the whole thing so I was needing to know if u guys know what to do and if so how do you deal with him plus counterpicks would be good to know against him plus in general what stages are the best for Yoshi?? sometimes I think I understand in some situations but at the same time I kinda don't understand hahah so any advice would help

Thanks

 

[Baron Omega]

What are you having trouble with in battle? Have any video? FD Duck Hunt(probably the best for this MU). Try to avoid the platform heavy places due to his amazing tech and platform chases with tornado.

yeh that is kind of what I having trouble with but more so I feel overwhelmed when against him with all the up tilts, grabs and more standard tilts. extremely quick getting in and out manoeuvring me, He is very good at his approach in general aswell which leaves me rag dolling all over the place.

 

[YoHeKing]

yeh that is kind of what I having trouble with but more so I feel overwhelmed when against him with all the up tilts, grabs and more standard tilts. extremely quick getting in and out manoeuvring me, He is very good at his approach in general aswell which leaves me rag dolling all over the place.

Hm. If you could provide me a replay or video. But I think I get what ur saying. I would try staying in the air with eggs and what ever is safe. Just try to stay away from being right infront of him.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Being in the air is inviting him in. Stay grounded don't use laggy attacks. MK is waiting for opportunity; do your best to make it difficult for him. At very low%s DI his down throw up or else you risk a bigger combo. At kill %s be wary of him landing dash attack, if you don't DI out it combos into up B. Sadly I don't have much else helpful to say. Despite using him I don't have much experience fighting him, so it's hard to think from this side. sorry...

 

[YoHeKing]

Being in the air is inviting him in. Stay grounded don't use laggy attacks. MK is waiting for opportunity; do your best to make it difficult for him. At very low%s DI his down throw up or else you risk a bigger combo. At kill %s be wary of him landing dash attack, if you don't DI out it combos into up B. Sadly I don't have much else helpful to say. Despite using him I don't have much experience fighting him, so it's hard to think from this side. sorry...

He has no diagonal options is what im saying. As long as your not above or infront of him ur safe to spam eggs...

Also I have a ton of exp. We can stay in air and attack him but its just alittle diffrent.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

He has no diagonal options is what im saying. As long as your not above or infront of him ur safe to spam eggs...

Where do you expect him to be when you land...? Eggs are better on the ground if at all.

 

[YoHeKing]

Where dodiagonalpect him to be when you land...? Eggs are better on the ground if at all.

Thats why u make sure hes not below you. He has laggy options going down diagonal so its easy to jump away from him and not run when hes close. And yes its all about DI away and not up from him in almost all his combos.

Dont edge guard him EVER below stage. If your gonna do it edge guard him above the stage. Also a down air above the cliff screws up his up b recovory.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

I'm not getting your point. If you jump away and he follows below you, how do you keep him from being below you?

 

[YoHeKing]

I'mHaven'tt getting your point. If you jump away and he follows below you, how do you keep him from being below you?

I need a good sleep before I should explain or talk about somthing. Haven't slept till 4 days ago before my trip to california. Sorry about this.

 

[wm1026]

How does everyone here approach with Yoshi? Or do you approach? I find my self getting punished for fair and egg toss gets me punished too. Any thoughts?

 

[YoHeKing]

How does everyone here approach with Yoshi? Or do you approach? I find my self getting punished for fair and egg toss gets me punished too. Any thoughts?

Have any replays you could show me? If your gonna be using egg toss for an approach it isnt always the best thing to do anyways. Are you auto canceling and/or flying backwards when you use fair so you cant get grabed?

I approach with full hop fairs and full hop nairs when im aggressive. I mix it up with like full hop nair to b reversal or full hop fair to fastfall nair. Thats just how I play though.

 

[SSS]

Are there any follow-ups off of swallow? It's a good tomahawk mixup and good for when they're shielding on platforms but after they break out of egg I can't ever get anything

 

[Delta-cod]

There is nothing guaranteed, because the enemy has invincibility when they pop out of the egg. The best you can do is make a read using your superior positioning at that point.

 

[HFlash]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but with some meta game development, it appears that according to the pro's collective impression, Yoshi is somewhere around #10-15 as opposed to top 5 (which I used to think) due to 2 main things:
a) Lack of kill throw/throw combos
b) Lack of safe kill options aside from jab U smash

What can we do to over come this? Has anyone come up with other good kill set ups? 50:50's? Uses for throws (aside from dthrow at really early percents?
Until these weaknesses are addressed, it really feels like Yoshi's metagame won't develop as much as I'd (and I'm sure everyone else here) would like to.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Hope the patch fixes him.

 

[Delta-cod]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but with some meta game development, it appears that according to the pro's collective impression, Yoshi is somewhere around #10-15 as opposed to top 5 (which I used to think) due to 2 main things:
a) Lack of kill throw/throw combos
b) Lack of safe kill options aside from jab U smash

What can we do to over come this? Has anyone come up with other good kill set ups? 50:50's? Uses for throws (aside from dthrow at really early percents?
Until these weaknesses are addressed, it really feels like Yoshi's metagame won't develop as much as I'd (and I'm sure everyone else here) would like to.

Yes, those are basically the two main things that really hurt him. Other things to add to that list would be

• Difficulty dealing with shield pressure (In other words, bad OOS options)
• Difficulty dealing with fast characters in neutral (which is related to the first point)

These secondary points would be mitigated if the two issues you listed weren't there. The problem is that we need to keep trying to win neutral (Which is hard due to the above), to try to set up 50:50s into kills.

In general Yoshi lacks kill setups. The best we generally have are air dodge baits (50:50s?) into Uair for kills. Otherwise we usually require hard reads to land major kill moves (Down B, Smashes). On the bright side, Egg Toss helps us set up these situations. On the down side, we lose kind of hard to shield, due to our throws not being very menacing. Jab > Usmash also isn't always a combo, which is problematic.

I think the best thing we could do is work on edge guarding. We've got some solid tools there, especially with Eggs. Fair/Nair can spike/keep sending the enemy out, while Eggs force responses. This is why I think Egg Launch (the custom Neutral B) is our best custom, and our best version of Egg Lay. Plus, it's faster.

As for throw developments, we can use throws at certain percents to force tech chases on platforms. This is beneficial because we have pretty good platform pressure with Egg Lay and Dair (it shreds shields and tends to stab). Otherwise I tend to just use throws for stage control, preferring to throw enemies to the ledge to hopefully get some Edgeguards going.

 

[HFlash]

@ Sinister Slush
If he gets buffed, he will surely get re nerfed, so that really isn't an option to resort to. Especially when Yoshi DOES have some strong advantages (this isn't mii swordman we are talking about here) which we can use to work around the lizard's weaknesses.
@ Delta-cod As for kill options. How extensively has egg lay kill setups been developed? Like maybe dair into usmash or something like that? (Would make b-reversing much more applicable and pertinent to playing Yoshi). Also, what about shield poke dair/bair into bdown for a shield break? (Similar to Kirby). How reliable is this (I'm sure it is character dependent to some degree)?
And one more thing: I am assuming that Customs might not be a thing as the over all attitude towards it is that it won't survive (which for Yoshi at least, is probably for the better), so I am asking with the pretext that default lizard is being used.

Side note: Maybe at higher percentages, use uthrow to set up a 50 50 where you either go for uair or double jump downb to finish stock? Similarly to shiek's dthrow to uair/upb.

I am mostly spitballing and looking for other Lizard mains to throw in their 2 cents.

 

[Delta-cod]

Egg Lay kill setups don't get looked into because the opponent actually has invincibility when they break out. Therefore, we must make a read to get a kill, nothing is guaranteed. It's also much harder to time follow ups at kill percents because it takes longer for the opponent to break out of the egg, so there are more points for them to break out and it's harder to time.

Shield poke bair/dair don't really work due to frame data. Either Bair will kill on its own, or there's too much lag to really follow up. Same with Dair. Now, things like landing Nair > Down B are decent shield break options, but there's enough time to roll after the first hit of Down B, so that's unreliable.

That Uthrow 50:50 might work, but Uthrow knockback might not scale strongly enough to allow enough time for that 50:50. If it does work, it'd be risky due to how punishable those states are if we miss. But it's an interesting thought. I just don't know how it would work out, exactly. My gut tells me the enemy has enough time to DJ away regardless of what we try.

 

[Sinister Slush]

A character getting buffs doesn't mean they'll be nerfed next patch.
The only reason I attempt throw attempts is our pitiful 7% b/fthrow and a couple pummels to hopefully get a free 10ish%

Kill set ups and fixing his pivot grab Bair and Fair frame data would be just enough for Yoshi. A single % difference for throws fixes all or some of the stuff like Base knockback, Weight knockback, Knockback growth. Imagine if 1% removed from Dthrow automatically made it so we have a guaranteed Usmash until people got past 100%.

Dair Usmash doesn't work cause the hits punts them to the side or they fly up if the last hit connects.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

If we are going to get 50:50 situations it'll be off Dthrow. I'm not sure if we do, but I do know that if we miss we will be left above our opponent without a DJ. :< it might be worth testing anyway.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I like to think that while airdodges are broken. If the opponent is in the air, you're in a good situation already, just don't chase them. If they use their DJ to get away then good, now they're in the air without a DJ. Unless they're sheik diddy or ZSS you can hopefully find ways to punish their landings.

 

[muddykips]

back to the thing about buffs / nerfs...

i think the only way they would give yoshi kill setups or throw options is if they nerfed him in other areas. he's already pretty dang good in a casual meta (hence why everyone seems to hate yoshi despite how he doesn't get results), so giving him a straight up buff like that doesn't make sense. there's a ton of other characters that need buffs way more than we do, and they should/will get priority over us. conversely, they'll probably work on nerfing top tiers, and we of course don't want to be on that particular hitlist.

like, the most i can see them buffing yoshi is by making his bair hitboxes more reliable, or fixing the jank on his pivot grab. other than that all his moves are all relatively quick, safe, and powerful, and even though his lack of kill setups / throw options doesnt get him as high in the tier list, theres a lot of other characters that have it worse in addition to those things.

 

[SSS]

It takes longer for Yoshi to drop shield, correct? I feel like everyone else can drop it almost immediately (to the point where they can do basically anything OoS and don't have to jump out), while Yoshi has a stupid egg break animation. I'm not sure though and I don't have a Wii U to see. If it does take longer that's annoying because it takes away dash>shield, a strong neutral game option.

 

[Codaption]

It takes longer for Yoshi to drop shield, correct? I feel like everyone else can drop it almost immediately (to the point where they can do basically anything OoS and don't have to jump out), while Yoshi has a stupid egg break animation. I'm not sure though and I don't have a Wii U to see. If it does take longer that's annoying because it takes away dash>shield, a strong neutral game option.

Yoshi DOES take longer to break out of shield, but not by that much. Every character experiences 7 frames of shield drop lag (aside from yoshi, who has 10).

While this is inherently not good for us, it's not really super crippling either. Three frames of lag isn't very much, and jumping/grabbing oos bypass this lag (and are thus the most common oos options on any character). Our shield can also just a tad more punishment than the standard, so all in all its a fair tradeoff. The only real issue with our oos options is how slow our standing grab is, and how poor the reward is for landing it.

 

[muddykips]

do those 3 extra frames of lag apply to perfect shields as well? cause if so that puts us at a disadvantage when it comes to shielding projectiles.

other than that, i like yoshi's shield. it's strong, and it's also the only shield in the game that can't get shieldstabbed.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

We don't have extra sheild drop frames or sheild startup.

 

[CourageHound]

Quick question. The other day I was having a discussion regarding the hitbox properties on Yoshi's up air. Regarding where yoshi's hurtboxes on it are, or if it's disjointed, invincible, etc. When a friend of mine asked KDB, Poltergust, and myself we all provided different answers based on what we knew/perceived. Anyone knows for sure what's up?

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

It's the same as brawl's as far as I can tell. I don't believe it has any invincibility.

 

[CourageHound]

So it's just simply disjointed then? Thanks