High Five! The Billy (and Jimmy) Lee Support Thread

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#1


Welcome to the Lee Brothers Support Thread!


Who are the Lee Brothers?


Those of us who grew up in the late '80's and early '90's will remember the Lees as the second biggest pair of siblings of gaming. For those who may have missed the golden days of 8bit gaming, the Lee twins, Billy and Jimmy, are the protagonists of the classic Double Dragon series.

Trained in the Sosetsuken martial arts, Billy and Jimmy are formidable fighters with an '80's flair.

Much like Ryu is "Mr. Fighting Game" and Cloud is "Mr. RPG," The Lees are both the faces of their own gaming genre, the Beat 'Em Up.



What is Double Dragon?


Released in 1987 in arcades by Technos, Double Dragon featured Billy, and his brother Jimmy, plowing through countless members of the Black Warriors gang on their quest to rescue Billy's kidnapped girlfriend, Marion.

While the arcade was a smash hit, most of us will fondly remember the series from its numerous ports on nearly ever console of the time, most notably the NES version. To this day, the game still sees releases on new platforms including the Switch.



Regardless of platform, the gameplay of Double Dragon centered around beating up enemies as you tear through each level. Players had a variety of punches and kicks at their disposal, along with grabs, aerial acrobatics, pummels and an assortment of items to batter down their foes (starting to sound familiar?). Each level consisted of a trek from left to right, stopping from time to time to take down waves of thugs. Platforming elements were also smattered throughout the game as well; with the Lees having to avoid bottomless pits, spiked floors, booby traps and more.



Some versions of the game, such as the NES, also featured a level-up system in which new attacks and abilities were unlocked as the character got stronger.
Of course, the biggest draw of the game was it's co-op. Two players could take on the role of each brother and clean up the streets together.



The game received its first sequel in 1988 with Double Dragon II: The Revenge, and then was followed in 1990 with Double Dragon III: The Rosetta Stones.

By this time, the series was nearly a household name. Along side numerous home versions of each title, Double Dragon had its own tv show, comic book line, action figures and even a Hollywood motion picture.



While the quality of several of the non-game endeavors weren't exactly great, it does go to show how big the series was in its heyday.



The Lees are no strangers to crossovers either. In 1993, the teamed up with Rare's Battletoads in Battletoads & Double Dragon for the NES, SNES, Genesis and Gameboy. Billy also made a cameo appearance in 1989's arcade, WWF Superstars (although not playable). Billy and Jimmy also took to sports in Super Spike V'Ball for the NES and had their own fighting games in the form of Double Dragon V: The Shadow Falls (based on the television cartoon) and Neo Geo Double Dragon by SNK. While it may have had liberties taken to character names to deal with loss of the license, SNK followed up its fighting game with Rage of the Dragons, which is part of the series in all but name.



In 2012, after a noticable drought of installments (excluding more ports), Wayforward revived the series with Double Dragon Neon. Neon, like most modernizations, brought the series to HD with birght '80's-inspired graphics and a fantastic retro-style soundtrack by Jake Kaufman. The tone of the series took a major turn as well, moving away from the more serious post-apocalypic setting to fully embracing the cheesiness of its decade of origin. The game is comical and fun to play, and still available on PC for those who wish to jump into the series (or give it a revisit).



Just last year (2017), Double Dragon saw its most recent installment with Double Dragon IV. Instead of the flashy 3D graphics of Neon, this installment goes back to the NES-style graphics and more serious presentation.
The series is still alive and kicking (pun intended) and you can even find some of the games on the Switch.


Two characters?

Well, you can't have "Double" Dragon with only one Dragon. However, instead of making an Echo fighter, Jimmy would be an alt for Billy in the vein of Olimar and Alph. In the series, Jimmy is a palate swap of his brother, even having the same voice in Neon, so this treatment would make sense. Give the Lees a handful of pallets for Billy and some for Jimmy, with the announcer/cheers being the only difference, and you get two characters for the price of one.



What can they bring to Smash?


Being martial artists and brawlers, the Lees are right at home in a fight. Don't worry Ryu fans, their style is very different from his and would not play like him. They could be heavily offensive focus to match their more aggressive method of fighting.

To keep true with the Beat 'Em Up fashion, they could be tooled toward taking on multiple foes and stand strong in FFA matches. Like in their games, they could have the ability to strike behind them with a unique back tilt and smash attacks that come out faster than turning around with normal attack. Their attacks could also be easy to cancel from to be able to change targets on the fly (of course, consideration to prevent unfair combos are a must). Jabs could also be chained into grabs (again balancing must be considered) to further emulate their in-game fighting style.

In addition to punching, kicking and grappling, they can also pull abilities from Neon such as buffing teammates/tripping up foes with the High Five or a palm strike that does knockback but heals both user and target, which could be utilized in team battles or a tricky KO move that heals you as well. Other fancy martial arts moves, such as the Cyclone Kick, could be implanted as well.

Cosmetically, the cheesy '80's vibe from Neon would be a lot of fun to carry over. Like in Neon, the Lees could make bad one-liners and use "totally tubular lingo." Plus mullets, sweet sweet mullets.

In addition, you get all the bells and whistles of including another beloved classic series. Some great music, an interesting stage and possibly an assist trophy (Abobo anyone?).



Third-Party characters don't have much of a chance getting in.
Sure, it might be a long shot, like most characters on this board if we're to be honest, but it's still fun to talk about.

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So if you're interested in these two gaming icons joining the other titans of gaming, drop on by!
 
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#3
Was considering if it was worth it to make a thread on them... you beat me to it... I made a video on them years ago...


Add me as a supporter...
 
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#4
*High Fives* Welcome aboard! Good ol' "Bimmy," one of my favorite "oops" of all time.

Was considering if it was worth it to make a thread on them... you beat me to it... I made a video on them years ago...


Add me as a supporter...
*High Fives* Nice video. I'm curious to know if, in the tag-team mechanic, each brother would have his own health or would they share like with Pokemon Trainer? And if the former, would the health reset only for the KOed brother while the other retains all damage done to him until KOed?
 
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#5
I imagine they would share the same health. As for the rest, I am not sure. With the return of the Ice Climbers, guess they could be a team. I envision something alike for Sophitia and Cassandra.
 

Oddball

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#7
I think it's also worth mentioning that the Neo Geo game got a psuedo sequal. The rights to Double Dragon got tied up in some legalities, so they made Rage of the Dragons, featuring Billy and Jimmy Lewis ... and Abubo.

I'd love to see Billy and Jimmy make it into the game, but I'm not so sure about a tag-team option, especially since they're practically the same character anyway. I'd rather just have different costumes for Billy and Jimmy.

I'd also love it if they got Double Dragon 3 costumes.
 

Guybrush20X6

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#10
If they get in, we need Abobo as an Assist Trophy.

I picture it that he appears, vanishes and then Kool Aid Mans reality itself behind your foes.
 
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#11
I've never played it before. I support! They sound like an interesting choice.
If you're curious about giving the games a try, the good news is that you can find the series on pretty much every system currently active. The NES games are available in the eShop for the 3DS and Wii U, you can find the original game on Switch, Steam and PS4, Neon can be still found on Steam, PS3, Xbox One, and Xbox 360, IV can be found on all current-gen systems. Even the NES Classic has Double Dragon 2 included on it.

I think it's also worth mentioning that the Neo Geo game got a psuedo sequal. The rights to Double Dragon got tied up in some legalities, so they made Rage of the Dragons, featuring Billy and Jimmy Lewis ... and Abubo.

I'd love to see Billy and Jimmy make it into the game, but I'm not so sure about a tag-team option, especially since they're practically the same character anyway. I'd rather just have different costumes for Billy and Jimmy.

I'd also love it if they got Double Dragon 3 costumes.
Thanks for reminding me of that, I coudn't remember the name of the "sequel" at the time, I'll make sure to update my post.

So if you win a match with them, do you then have to fight the other brother for Marion's affections?
I'm certain a reference to that would no doubt be included. Like Oddball mentioned, I could see it as some sort of Event Match using one of the playable female characters in a red pallet as a stand-in for Marion.
 

Guybrush20X6

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#12
I got an idea for a Final Smash that would let the two have a co-op vibe without cribbing on the Ice Climber's thing.

The controlled brother (Let's say Billy here) smacks the foe with a bat, then kicks them into the air, at which point the brother shows up and the two kick them back and forth in a combo before both punching them at once.

 
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#13
I got an idea for a Final Smash that would let the two have a co-op vibe without cribbing on the Ice Climber's thing.

The controlled brother (Let's say Billy here) smacks the foe with a bat, then kicks them into the air, at which point the brother shows up and the two kick them back and forth in a combo before both punching them at once.

Fantastic idea! This would work so well bringing the co-op idea home while still allowing either brother to play as a solo character.
 
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#19
No problem we should get a Stage ideas going. Would a remake of Stage 1 be to predictable
It's probably the most known setting in the series, so it would make sense. I'm working on an idea incorporating the room where you fight Abobo in the NES version with the conveyor belt to spice things up.

Neon had a handful of fun locals with some interesting hazards (such as the airlock in the Mission 4 or Killacopter in Mission 6) that could make fun stages, but aren't iconic to the series.
 
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#21
Abobo’s room would be a great stage, thinking on it could a side-scrolling stage work?
A side-scrolling stage would be pretty fun. DD is a scrolling brawler, so taking you through the level layouts would work.

My idea is a little more stationary. I'm working on trying to get a layout that would work with the belt gimmick so that players wont be stuck on conveyor belt but also not entirely ignore it as well. Once I have something mocked up, I'll be sure to share it here.
 
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#22
A side-scrolling stage would be pretty fun. DD is a scrolling brawler, so taking you through the level layouts would work.

My idea is a little more stationary. I'm working on trying to get a layout that would work with the belt gimmick so that players wont be stuck on conveyor belt but also not entirely ignore it as well. Once I have something mocked up, I'll be sure to share it here.
Instead of a bottomless pit could a fire pit work what would cause knockback
 

Guybrush20X6

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#24
Found this cool version of the title theme and I thought I should share.

 

Oddball

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#26
If they do include them, I'd rather just have Jimmy as an alternate costume rather than any kind of team fighter or appearing in a final smash or being a straight up echo. Just make Billy a character and have Jimmy be a color for him. At the most do like they do for Bowser Jr, where the Koopa kids are kinda-sorta echoes.

One problem with this though is that at some point in the series, Billy and Jimmy switched hair colors. So maybe a Light blue Billy with blonde hair and a dark blue Billy with black hair and a Jimmy in bright red with blonde hair and a more ornage-red with darker hair... something like that anyway.
 

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#28
Definitely support. Between the Double Dragon series (particularly Neon), Streets of Rage finally getting a new mainline game, etc, beat ‘em ups are my jam, and having a mascot of the genre in Smash would be well, great!
 

Pinkanator

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#29
If Smash is lacking representation of one genre, it's the Beat-Em-Up scene of the NES-SNES era. Bimmy and Jammy are personally what I consider the most iconic and perfect choices for the role, even with plenty of other potential options. (Cody and Guy are Street Fighters now, Haggar is in this nebulous state of noone knowing what to do with him, Axel Stone was never really all that unique, Gillius is a little too unique to really fill the role IMO)
 

Wiziliz

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#30
**** yeah! I know it won't happen, but here's someone I really, really want! A mechanic where they steal the weapon of whoever they beat up enough or knock down would be hilarious. I don't expect this to happen, but I definitely support it!
 

Guybrush20X6

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#32
Well Joker's a thing so what Nintendo wants in characters could mean anything.

Maybe the Lee Brothers could link in with the NES online service.
 
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#33
At the very least, I would have liked some music from Double Dragon, and River City Ransom... if Smash started in the NES era and then they started accepting 3rd parties for the SNES sequel, they would have been locks.
 
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