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High Five! The Billy (and Jimmy) Lee Support Thread

Oddball

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Your design for them would work well as the classic look and I could see that as the direction Sakurai would go with. My personal favorites are the Neon styles, complete with the cheesy Totally 80's attitude.
I would be perfectly okay if they used the new looks.
 

ErenJager

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Arc System Works had their Kunio spirit event...
Dare I say is Double Dragon kino back on the table?
 

PuyoWitch

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I know that a lot of people will make the argument that if they were going to have any character, Kunio has a better shot by being a bigger deal in Japan. They are probably right, but I feel like at least personally, I believe they would get a bigger reaction as a hardcore old school choice than Ryu or Bill Rizer does. I understand Ryu has had triple-a games, and Double Dragon has not exactly found relevancy since the days of Battletoads and Double Dragon, but I still believe they have stupid influence.

I feel pretty confident in saying they at least have a shot. The two of them get top billing in a Switch compilation pack that features three of their games and fifteen Kunio games. Yes, pop culture knows Kunio-Kun as 'River City Ransom' and not Kunio, but they could have added 'River City' in America somewhere and capitalized on River City GIrls, but they did not. I'm probably just delusional, but in my eyes, they are both the next big 'retro rep' I would add, if we were to get another, and the face of the beat-em-up genre for me. That on top of the fact they have a movie, a cartoon series, a ton of cameos, I feel they are a dark horse pick. I wouldn't throw them out at all.

Specifically, I want an Abobo spirit battle, as well. I mean, come on.
 

Wonder Smash

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If I had to pick any characters from an Arc System Works series, it's Billy and Jimmy Lee.
 
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Oddball

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I know that a lot of people will make the argument that if they were going to have any character, Kunio has a better shot by being a bigger deal in Japan. They are probably right, but I feel like at least personally, I believe they would get a bigger reaction as a hardcore old school choice than Ryu or Bill Rizer does. I understand Ryu has had triple-a games, and Double Dragon has not exactly found relevancy since the days of Battletoads and Double Dragon, but I still believe they have stupid influence.

I feel pretty confident in saying they at least have a shot. The two of them get top billing in a Switch compilation pack that features three of their games and fifteen Kunio games. Yes, pop culture knows Kunio-Kun as 'River City Ransom' and not Kunio, but they could have added 'River City' in America somewhere and capitalized on River City GIrls, but they did not. I'm probably just delusional, but in my eyes, they are both the next big 'retro rep' I would add, if we were to get another, and the face of the beat-em-up genre for me. That on top of the fact they have a movie, a cartoon series, a ton of cameos, I feel they are a dark horse pick. I wouldn't throw them out at all.

Specifically, I want an Abobo spirit battle, as well. I mean, come on.
You might not hear much about them these days, but they were defintly a big deal back in the day. Not many characters can claim to have had a animated series, movie, and toyline. (They weren't very good, but they still had them.) That's bigger than River City ever got.

I've always seen River City Ransom as more of a cult hit thing myself anyway.

For an Abobo Spirit Battle, I'd use Incineroar.
Zero Suit Samus for a Linda battle
Snake with a Superscope for Willy

and then we might as well have some of their friends.

Greninja for Battletoads
Bayonetta and Peach with baseball bats for the River City Girls
Maybe something for Kunio. Not sure what.
 

Seanapotamus

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Double Dragon is a series that hasn't been speculated on very much within the community. It is a series that helped make the beat 'em-up genre popular and has inspired other games as well. And aside from the River City/Kunio Kun spirit event and the Cody Travers spirit, the beat 'em-up genre doesn't have much presence in Smash. I think Billy and Jimmy are sleeper picks for DLC and it certainly helps that the River City spirit event raised some speculation for an ArcSys character in the second Fighters Pass, who prior to that spirit event had no presence in Ultimate. And of course you can't forget the music like the first arcade game's opening and the Mission 2 theme from the NES version of the second game, just to name a few.

I think Billy and Jimmy are great choices as future fighters in Smash, maybe even as being part of one of the six upcoming challenger packs.
 

Wonder Smash

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Another pair of 80s characters from the NES era that was missing from this event.

born-in-the-1980s 3.jpg


Your design for them would work well as the classic look and I could see that as the direction Sakurai would go with. My personal favorites are the Neon styles, complete with the cheesy Totally 80's attitude.
I would be perfectly okay if they used the new looks.
I'm pretty sure they would. They tend to go with the characters' most recognizable looks and the Neon designs are basically just Billy and Jimmy's updated looks from the earlier games (kind of like Little Mac).

Also, I think the stage should be the City Streets (Stage 1) from the very first game. Basically, the same as it is in Colorful Fighters in Code Shifter, but with the design of Double Dragon Neon. Not sure what the stage hazard would be, though.
 
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Wonder Smash

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Spirits that the Double Dragon series could have such as:

Fighter Spirits
1589928701999.png Billy Lee and Jimmy Lee (they would be separate, of course)
Primary and Support Spirits

1589928966639.png Marian
1591939424336.png
Williams
1591939398142.png
Roper 1589929750583.png Linda

1590346660525.png
Abobo 1589929534475.png Willy
1590346358982.png
Burnov
1590121250916.png
Chin Taimei
1590120306405.png
Mysterious Warrior
1590120971623.png
Yagyu Ranzou
1590120915082.png
Chin Seimei
1590121482211.png
Shadow Boss
1590120502587.png
Duke 1589930383858.png Mecha Biker 1589930273579.png Tapesmith

1589931558440.png Skullmageddon
1590121167682.png
Ayumi 1590424982324.png Roxy 1590636130591.png Hong and Wong

Trying to find spirits for this series is kind of tough. A lot of characters either don't have official artworks that show their whole body or don't show them being by themselves.
 
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D

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Spirits that the Double Dragon series could have such as:

Fighter Spirits
View attachment 272167 Billy Lee and Jimmy Lee (they would be separate, of course)
Primary and Support Spirits

View attachment 272168 Marian View attachment 272171 Williams View attachment 272175 Linda View attachment 272170 Abobo View attachment 272172 Willy View attachment 272183 Burnov View attachment 272178 Mecha Biker View attachment 272177 Tapesmith View attachment 272184 Skullmageddon

Trying to find spirits for this series is kind of tough. A lot of characters either don't have official artworks that show their whole body or them being by themselves.
I have never felt so much terror in a T Posing Williams possibly being used for a spirit png.


but onto that part about finding official artworks, you could probably also just use character sprites from the games themselves as an option too.
 

Wonder Smash

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I have never felt so much terror in a T Posing Williams possibly being used for a spirit png.


but onto that part about finding official artworks, you could probably also just use character sprites from the games themselves as an option too.
I also found a T Posing Abobo too. lol But I think I'm going to change it.

I could find some sprites for some characters, unless they come from Neon.
 
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Oddball

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Billy Lee and Jimmy Lee (they would be separate, of course)
I think we could have a Billy Lee, a Jimmy Lee, and a "Double Dragons" spirit that shows them both.

I'd also like spirits of Shadow Boss from Battletoads and Double Dragon and Mysterious Warrior from Double Dragon 2.
 

Wonder Smash

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I think we could have a Billy Lee, a Jimmy Lee, and a "Double Dragons" spirit that shows them both.

I'd also like spirits of Shadow Boss from Battletoads and Double Dragon and Mysterious Warrior from Double Dragon 2.
I can hardly find any artwork of them, though. Guess I really do have to settle for sprites. They did that with the River City characters so I might as well do the same for Double Dragon.
 
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Oddball

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Spirits that the Double Dragon series could have such as:


Trying to find spirits for this series is kind of tough. A lot of characters either don't have official artworks that show their whole body or them being by themselves.
To Piggyback off your idea...
How each fight would go down.

Marian
Opponents: Billy Lee, Jimmy Lee, and Princess Peach
You only have to defeat Peach to win. She tries to avoid you.

Williams
Opponent: a weak Little Mac

Roper
Opponent: Male Wii Fit Trainer
Crates appear frequently

Linda
Opponent; Zero Suit Samus in her blue shorts and tanktop outfit
Likes to use whip attacks


Abobo
Opponents: Donkey Kong.
Doesn't flinch from attacks

Wily
Opponent: Snake
armed with Superscope

Burnov
Opponent: Not sure... King K. Rool maybe

Chin Taimei
Opponent: Ike in green outfit

Mysterious Warrior
Opponent: Ganondorf

Yagyu Ranzou
Opponent: Sheik

Chin Seimei
Opponent: Mii brawler

Shadow Boss
Opponent: Donkey Kong
with a dash attack

Duke
Opponent: Ken

Mecha Biker:
This one is so obvious I'm not even going to dignify it with a reply

Tapesmith
Opponent: Kind DeDeDe

Skullmageddon
Opponent: Ridley
Increased durability
likes to taunt

Ayumi
Opponent: Sheik or Greninja

Roxy
Opponent: Daisy with jetpack
 

Wonder Smash

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To Piggyback off your idea...
How each fight would go down.

Marian
Opponents: Billy Lee, Jimmy Lee, and Princess Peach
You only have to defeat Peach to win. She tries to avoid you.

Williams
Opponent: a weak Little Mac

Roper
Opponent: Male Wii Fit Trainer
Crates appear frequently

Linda
Opponent; Zero Suit Samus in her blue shorts and tanktop outfit
Likes to use whip attacks


Abobo
Opponents: Donkey Kong.
Doesn't flinch from attacks

Wily
Opponent: Snake
armed with Superscope

Burnov
Opponent: Not sure... King K. Rool maybe

Chin Taimei
Opponent: Ike in green outfit

Mysterious Warrior
Opponent: Ganondorf

Yagyu Ranzou
Opponent: Sheik

Chin Seimei
Opponent: Mii brawler

Shadow Boss
Opponent: Donkey Kong
with a dash attack

Duke
Opponent: Ken

Mecha Biker:
This one is so obvious I'm not even going to dignify it with a reply

Tapesmith
Opponent: Kind DeDeDe

Skullmageddon
Opponent: Ridley
Increased durability
likes to taunt

Ayumi
Opponent: Sheik or Greninja

Roxy
Opponent: Daisy with jetpack
Great ideas! I figured somebody might have some ideas for how these spirits could work since I don't have any ideas myself (except for Mecha Biker since, like you said, that's super obvious).

I think I'll add the Twin Tigers (Hong and Wong) to my list too. I kind of see them like a Ryuichi & Ryuji-type spirit.
 
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Wonder Smash

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I think a certain gimmick for the Lee Brothers is either the Back-Elbow from the first game or the Back-Kick from the second one. They work for when they're surrounded by opponents, which would be perfectly fitting for a beat'em up character.

EDIT: Just realized this was mentioned in the opening post. Guess it was more obvious than I thought.
 
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D

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Gotta say, it's really fascinating how not so talked about Billy and Jimmy are within Smash speculation. I know Ninja Gaiden is the big NES franchise everyone talks about due in part to leaks with Contra being 2nd by a mile, but I hardly see much people mention Double Dragon in regards to Retro characters. Heck, even people that talk about the potential of a Beat Em Up character would probably think Streets of Rage or Final Fight would be the franchises chosen for it (granted Sari's Axel post got a good amount of attention when it came out and Haggar is a Capcom character). I get that Double Dragon isn't nearly as big as it used to be, but it's also crazy that it seems like a forgotten relic of the past nowadays.
 

Wonder Smash

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Gotta say, it's really fascinating how not so talked about Billy and Jimmy are within Smash speculation. I know Ninja Gaiden is the big NES franchise everyone talks about due in part to leaks with Contra being 2nd by a mile, but I hardly see much people mention Double Dragon in regards to Retro characters. Heck, even people that talk about the potential of a Beat Em Up character would probably think Streets of Rage or Final Fight would be the franchises chosen for it (granted Sari's Axel post got a good amount of attention when it came out and Haggar is a Capcom character). I get that Double Dragon isn't nearly as big as it used to be, but it's also crazy that it seems like a forgotten relic of the past nowadays.
Yeah, I be thinking the same thing. People talk about Final Fight and Streets of Rage but not only is Double Dragon the father of beat'em ups, but it's a much larger franchise compared to both of those series and it had some of the best games on Nintendo consoles. It also had games on more consoles than both of them.

Then there's also people not talking about any ASW characters until the River City Ransom spirit event, in which then people started talking about a Guilty Gear or BlazBlue character but still overlooking Double Dragon, much to my surprise. Not only would I have thought River City Ransom would have had people talking about Double Dragon characters but the event even featured Billy and Jimmy Lee's expies (Ryuichi and Ryuji) as spirits, like a big tease. I just be thinking "Guys, one of the spirits is the Dragon Twins. Doesn't that remind you of another series that can represented in Smash?" It felt like a big hint that not many people seemed to notice.
 
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ninjahmos

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If we’re gonna have Billy and Jimmy for Smash, then we need Smash remixes of the Title Theme and City Slums/Mission 1 from Double Dragon, so count me in!
 
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Oddball

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Double Dragon has a lot of really great music tracks. I'm also rather partial to the first level music of Battletoads and Double Dragon.

Battletoads and Double Dragon Stage 1

You think if we got a Billy Lee, they could slip us Kunio and Battletoads mii costumes?
 

Wonder Smash

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Double Dragon has a lot of really great music tracks. I'm also rather partial to the first level music of Battletoads and Double Dragon.

Battletoads and Double Dragon Stage 1

You think if we got a Billy Lee, they could slip us Kunio and Battletoads mii costumes?
I can picture them doing that, especially with Kunio.

Also, speaking of Kunio, I expect Billy and Jimmy Lee to be used for the Ryuichi and Ryuji spirit match:
1594439120122.png
They're basically the same characters anyway.
 
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ninjahmos

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Wonder Smash

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Basically, you want the designs by Hiroyuki Sekimoto. He normally has Billy with brown hair and Jimmy with blonde. I don't mind that since they look like Fist of the North Star characters.
 
D

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There isn't much talk about echos in this thread nor is there much talk in support for (presumably) Jimmy being an echo rather than an alt because he plays the same as Billy.


It makes me wonder. I don't have too much knowledge on the series, but if you were to make Jimmy an echo instead of an alt, how would you make him different from Billy? It really doesn't have to be some huge difference because, aside from their appearances, Simon and Richter are basically the same except for their type of Holy Water.
 

Wonder Smash

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I hope they would also add the Double Dragon Retro theme:



There isn't much talk about echos in this thread nor is there much talk in support for (presumably) Jimmy being an echo rather than an alt because he plays the same as Billy.


It makes me wonder. I don't have too much knowledge on the series, but if you were to make Jimmy an echo instead of an alt, how would you make him different from Billy? It really doesn't have to be some huge difference because, aside from their appearances, Simon and Richter are basically the same except for their type of Holy Water.
I'd go by how they were in Super Double Dragon, where they basically had the same moves but different combos. I think they had a few different punches and kicks from each other. There may also be some differences between them in Code Shifter too.
 
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Oddball

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I hope they would also add the Double Dragon Retro theme:
Yeah, a retro theme would be pretty cool too.

I'd go by how they were in Super Double Dragon, where they basically had the same moves but different combos. I think they had a few different punches and kicks from each other. There may also be some differences between them in Code Shifter too.
I really don't want them to be too different. The fact that they're almost the same is a large part of the appeal. Of course, I'm one of those people that think them just being alts is perfectly fine anyway.
 

Wonder Smash

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Yeah, a retro theme would be pretty cool too.


I really don't want them to be too different. The fact that they're almost the same is a large part of the appeal. Of course, I'm one of those people that think them just being alts is perfectly fine anyway.
I think them being alts is perfectly fine too. It make sense. But even if they were separate, they would barely be any different from each other. Aside from Super Double Dragon, there's also the fighting games and Code Shifter where they were separate characters, yet you can hardly tell the difference between them in gameplay.
 

Wonder Smash

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I was looking at the Smash Wiki page on companies with minor representation and I saw where they had Arc System Works mentioned:


This may not seem like a big deal but I personally think it should at least mention the Double Dragon series when bringing up Technos Japan. I'm not sure if anybody on this site has worked on this wiki but if they have, I'd like to bring this up because I feel it's a series that's definitely worth mentioning if you're going to talk about either company.
 

Oddball

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This may not seem like a big deal but I personally think it should at least mention the Double Dragon series when bringing up Technos Japan. I'm not sure if anybody on this site has worked on this wiki but if they have, I'd like to bring this up because I feel it's a series that's definitely worth mentioning if you're going to talk about either company.
It's a wiki. If you want to change something, sign-up and change it.
 

Wonder Smash

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I've started playing the Colorful Fighters minigame in Code Shifters recently.

Okay, even though it's a platform fighter like Smash, it may not be the best game to look for ideas for a moveset. It plays very differently and the movesets are much smaller. But still, even without that, the Double Dragon series itself provides enough for moveset ideas.
 
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Wonder Smash

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I got a question; if the Lee brothers do make it in, should they also come with more River City/Kunio content? Like music and spirits?

I was looking at River City Ransom Underground and this character Paul caught my attention:

1607033435643.png


Looks like a certain character from a Nintendo boxing series, doesn't he?
 
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ninjahmos

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Sure! Why not?

Personally I'd love to see Kunio and the River City Girls make it in as Mii costumes.
The River City Ransom theme would also be a really great track to include.
Riki would make a nice Echo Fighter, or at least semi-clone, for Kunio.
 

Oddball

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They could do it like the Koopa Kids. Billy, Jimmy, Kunio, Riki... maybe Ryan and Alex?
 

Oddball

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River City Girls put Billy and Jimmy into the same series as Riki and Kunio.
 
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