Social Hideout of the Phantom Thieves - Joker Social

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Who can be used for lust then, ZSS? Despite the fact that she's anything but lustful.

I say they'll take the much simpler route of a Phantom Thieves theme, up to and including as a stand-in for Morgana.

 

[osby]

Bayo is pretty much the only choice for Lust though, since Nintendo is so squeaky clean about that sort of thing. Bayo comes the closest for being the most sensual in design.

Dressing provacatively doesn't mean being lascivious. Shulk and Samus have even more open outfits but that doesn't mean they are suggestive characters.


Unpopular opinion but I think Bowser would fit Lust better because of his obsession with Peach. Characters related to sin of lust don't have to be sexy women all the time.

 

[C-G]

Dressing provacatively doesn't mean being lascivious. Shulk and Samus have even more open outfits but that doesn't mean they are suggestive characters.

Isn't it? Dressing provocative is meant to invoke lust in others afterall, and she regularly poses in such ways as to flaunt what she's got.

My issue with Bowser is that until Odyssey, kidnapping Peach is always treated as a stepping stone to conquering the Mushroom Kingdom rather than the main, driving force.

I'd be willing to accept Snake for lust though. He's historically hit on a lot of ladies, even if that side of him really underplayed due to the circumstances of MGS 2 and on.

 

[EarlTamm]

Isn't it? Dressing provocative is meant to invoke lust in others afterall, and she regularly poses in such ways as to flaunt what she's got.

In Bayo's case it's more a showcase of her own confidence rather than trying to make her enemies lustful.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Good lord, this would all be easier if Morrigan was included, at least then everyone would agree that she fits Lust the best.

 

[EarlTamm]

Good lord, this would all be easier if Morrigan was included, at least then everyone would agree that she fits Lust the best.

Doubt she will get in any time soon, especially with so many other Capcom games kicking all kinds of a** recently.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Doubt she will get in any time soon, especially with so many other Capcom games kicking all kinds of a** recently.

Yeah, that's true. Dante, other SF characters and anyone from RE still get in line before her, never mind any noteworthy inactive IPs they have that could get picked (Captain Commando, Ghosts 'N Goblins, etc).

In the meantime, we'll just have to assume that Ninty won't care about our definition of "lust" and go with whichever lady that shows off enough leg.

 

[EarlTamm]

Yeah, that's true. Dante, other SF characters and anyone from RE still get in line before her, never mind any noteworthy inactive IPs they have that could get picked (Captain Commando, Ghosts 'N Goblins, etc).

In the meantime, we just have to assume that Ninty won't care about our definition of "lust" and go with whichever lady that shows off enough leg.

You know, lust in the context of sin is not just of a sexual nature. It just has to be sins of a physical desire or luxury. Drugs for example.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

You know, lust in the context of sin is not just of a sexual nature. It just has to be sins of a physical desire or luxury. Drugs for example.

If it was that easy, they'd just have for both greed and money fetish.

For all we know they won't go with a palace theme at all and will just settle for the Phantom Thieves.

 

[C-G]

Lust is a desire specifically for the opposite gender (or same if that's what floats your boat). Whomever the representative should be it should be someone who wants to get it on with someone else.

If Bayois DQ'd because it's more about being self-confident, then the only character that has actively hit on anyone in any way is Snake.

And while I'm still pulling for Bayo, Snake's more than capable of having the palace for lust.

 

[EarlTamm]

Lust is a desire specifically for the opposite gender (or same if that's what floats your boat). Whomever the representative should be it should be someone who wants to get it on with someone else.

If Bayois DQ'd because it's more about being self-confident, then the only character that has actively hit on anyone in any way is Snake.

And while I'm still pulling for Bayo, Snake's more than capable of having the palace for lust.

If this is the case, I doubt there is any character that fits lust. The shoe does not really fit anyone.

 

[Sigran101]

Lust is a desire specifically for the opposite gender (or same if that's what floats your boat). Whomever the representative should be it should be someone who wants to get it on with someone else.

If Bayois DQ'd because it's more about being self-confident, then the only character that has actively hit on anyone in any way is Snake.

And while I'm still pulling for Bayo, Snake's more than capable of having the palace for lust.

That's one definition, but lust can also be defined as any passionate desire. The example Webster's gives is lust for power. So actually Gannon or Bowser could work in that sense.

 

[amageish]

Isn't it? Dressing provocative is meant to invoke lust in others afterall, and she regularly poses in such ways as to flaunt what she's got.

Spoiler: P4G Spoilers

Note that Persona 4 Golden had an entire "Lust Arcana," though it was localized as the "Hunger Arcana," and it was all about losing control over your actions due to an insatiable hunger for power. None of the personae in it are temptresses, but instead they're all disgraced dieties who lost powers due to their overwhelming destructive urges or tendencies. So, as far as Persona is considered, I think you're using a bit too narrow of a definition of "lust."

If simply invoking lust in others was enough to be considered sinfully lustful, then I think the Phantom Thieves would need to steal Ann's heart, given how the camera seems always angled to show off her butt.

 

[C-G]

Spoiler: P4G Spoilers

Note that Persona 4 Golden had an entire "Lust Arcana," though it was localized as the "Hunger Arcana," and it was all about losing control over your actions due to an insatiable hunger for power. None of the personae in it are temptresses, but instead they're all disgraced dieties who lost powers due to their overwhelming destructive urges or tendencies. So, as far as Persona is considered, I think you're using a bit too narrow of a definition of "lust."

If simply invoking lust in others was enough to be considered sinfully lustful, then I think the Phantom Thieves would need to steal Ann's heart, given how the camera seems always angled to show off her butt.

First, if it were lust in general, sure I could buy that. But given that it's specifically the seven deadly sins version of lust, it's rigidly locked into sexual desire as Greed already covers 'desire for more' much better than Lust does.

Second, Ann's gone on record multiple times as saying she had no hand in choosing that outfit and is uncomfortable in it as well.

 

[amageish]

First, if it were lust in general, sure I could buy that. But given that it's specifically the seven deadly sins version of lust, it's rigidly locked into sexual desire as Greed already covers 'desire for more' much better than Lust does.

Second, Ann's gone on record multiple times as saying she had no hand in choosing that outfit and is uncomfortable in it as well.

Spoiler: P5 Spoilers

In P5, lust is still depicted as being more multifaceted then sexual desire, as Kamoshida's Castle has plenty of references to his lust for power (I mean, it is a castle, which is associated with power in general and not just sex). All the deadly sins kind of blur into each other; they're a framework and not something perfectly rigid.

And that is true, though she will flirt with shadows as a negotiating tactic and says she models herself based on a "sexy" anime villain from when she was a kid. To be clear though: I'm not saying Ann is actually a bad person. I just don't think a person being attractive and willing to acknowledge their attractive qualities qualifies them for deadly sin status.

 

[C-G]

In P5, lust is still depicted as being more multifaceted then sexual desire, as Kamoshida's Castle has plenty of references to his lust for power (I mean, it is a castle, which is associated with power in general and not just sex). All the deadly sins kind of blur into each other; they're a framework and not something perfectly rigid.

It's BECAUSE they all blend into one another that you need to rigidly differentiate them. Lust is sexual wanting. Greed is wanting more than what you have. Envy is wanting what others have. It's all wanting but you need to draw lines in the sand or cut out some sins. And since no one's gonna be doing that anytime soon and certainly not for a Smash game that already lacks any lust whatsoever, if you want someone to represent Lust you're gonna have to go with someone promoting sexual desire. Wario desires to have a lot of stuff. That's a kind of desire. Does that mean he's best represented by lust? Chrom, Bowser, and Ken have canonically had sex. Does that make them the best representation of lust? No it doesn't because one is just desire, and one is just sex. You need both to qualify. And P5 may have plenty of characters full of lust, but Smash has nothing. You need to settle on a suboptimal pick that only barely represents lust in this game.

I went with Bayo because she's the most provocative. That's all.

 

[Sigran101]

What do you guys think the release date will be? I'm guessing second week of April.

 

[Aeon_Shadow]

What do you guys think the release date will be? I'm guessing second week of April.

I'm wondering more if there will be some kind of Smash direct this month. I'm hoping around middle of March or something.

 

[Teeb147]

What do you guys think the release date will be? I'm guessing second week of April.

I think it will be early, like pplant was. Tho, I still think it'll be the first week of april at least, not before the month.
If home run contest and stage builder are going to be in 3.0 then i really think there's going to be a smash direct before it all. Probably not long before joker's release. Just my guess

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Finally, that inane topic is over. Anyway...

What do you guys think the release date will be? I'm guessing second week of April.

Seems likely, if there's a Direct around that time.

I'm wondering more if there will be some kind of Smash direct this month. I'm hoping around middle of March or something.

I doubt it. It seems more like something they'd save for next month.

 

[Sigran101]

I'm wondering more if there will be some kind of Smash direct this month. I'm hoping around middle of March or something.

That would be nice. I'm not as optimistic, but I'd love for that to happen. If nothing else, just so that I could watch the trailer and look at the pictures on the website over and over. I always do that with new characters, but there's no point if they're shadow dropped as soon as they're shown off.

I do agree there will be a direct though. I just think it will be next month.

 

[Teeb147]

That would be nice. I'm not as optimistic, but I'd love for that to happen. If nothing else, just so that I could watch the trailer and look at the pictures on the website over and over. I always do that with new characters, but there's no point if they're shadow dropped as soon as they're shown off.

I do agree there will be a direct though. I just think it will be next month.

The earlier the better But my guess is that if we get any interesting news this month it wont be from nintendo (near the end of the month after the anime airs and at the sega conference.) Either way later this month and april should have something.

 

[Sigran101]

The earlier the better But my guess is that if we get any interesting news this month it wont be from nintendo (near the end of the month after the anime airs and at the sega conference.) Either way later this month and april should have something.

Yeah, between those two there's no way we won't be getting Persona news soon. They've already confirmed there will be persona content at Sega Fes. There's good stuff on the way.

 

[amageish]

The most recent advertisement says "April" as his release month...

There was a problem fetching the tweet

...but not like that means much in a post-Plant world.

I definitely agree that a direct is coming soon-ish though.

 

[Aeon_Shadow]

I'm hoping for a reveal this month in some Smash direct, then a release early-mid April. Part of me just wants to see Joker already, part of me wants all the crazy/unrealistic wishlists to end, and part of me wants to see who the next Fighter's Pass character is.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

comment deleted.

 

[Mellowy Yellow]

I'm hoping for a reveal this month in some Smash direct, then a release early-mid April. Part of me just wants to see Joker already, part of me wants all the crazy/unrealistic wishlists to end, and part of me wants to see who the next Fighter's Pass character is.

Its gonna be the DQ rep that 97% of the community did not ask for.

 

[lukinator1]

I wouldn't have a problem with a dragon quest character

 

[Teeb147]

Its gonna be the DQ rep that 97% of the community did not ask for.

The same could be said about persona :/
Not that it's a bad thing to stray from the ballot list.
In the end we're gamers and we all have games we like. Doesn't mean it's the most popular in the smash community. It should also bring more people to smash too tho.

 

[Sigran101]

The same could be said about persona :/
Not that it's a bad thing to stray from the ballot list.
In the end we're gamers and we all have games we like. Doesn't mean it's the most popular in the smash community. It should also bring more people to smash too tho.

Fair enough. DQ probably has more worldwide fans than Persona by a large margin.

 

[Teeb147]

Fair enough. DQ probably has more worldwide fans than Persona by a large margin.

Japan is crazy about DQ, so a huge bulk of it comes from there. For the west I think that at this point with Persona 5 and Dragon Quest 11 they're maybe about the same in the west.

When I checked, Shin Megami Tensei itself had over 12 million sales or something like that. I dont know if that includes persona or not, but let's say it's like 22 million just to give the benefit (persona had close to 10 million but that was in 2018). From what I saw Dragon Quest has about 4 times that amount of sales (it was close to 80 million without DQ11). I dont think that necessarily translates to popularity, and I do think a lot more people outside japan know about joker than erdrick, as far as characters go. But I'm glad both Persona and Dragon Quest are getting to be more known worldwide.

 

[Sigran101]

The most recent advertisement says "April" as his release month...

There was a problem fetching the tweet

...but not like that means much in a post-Plant world.

I definitely agree that a direct is coming soon-ish though.

Plant was announced as January or February and came out in January. I would assume the April timeframe is accurate.

 

[amageish]

DQ is definitely bigger and more important then MegaTen from a game history PoV. Problem is that Square Enix has a lot of IPs, many of which are a bit more popular within the Smash fan bubble then "legacy character who seems like a generic JRPG protagonist because he defined all of the generic tropes for a JRPG protagonist"...

Plant was announced as January or February and came out in January. I would assume the April timeframe is accurate.

I believe there was a Nintendo Switch news tab thing that said that it was coming out in February a week before it came out in January? But also I guess he did become available to purchase in February...

 

[Teeb147]

DQ is definitely bigger and more important then MegaTen from a game history PoV. Problem is that Square Enix has a lot of IPs, many of which are a bit more popular within the Smash fan bubble then "legacy character who seems like a generic JRPG protagonist because he defined all of the generic tropes for a JRPG protagonist"...



I believe there was a Nintendo Switch news tab thing that said that it was coming out in February a week before it came out in January? But also I guess he did become available to purchase in February...

imo dragon ball (well toriyama) art is more defining and liked than generic. And other than that, most people who say things like that havent played the games.

I think the main thing with DQ here is that there's a lot of heroes and there isn't one that stands above the rest, unlike cloud who's more popular for FF.
If the leaks are true thho then we'd be getting other heroes as alts, so that would appeal more fans. DQ3 hasnt had much since the snes, so it's much more of a retro rep.

 

[amageish]

imo dragon ball (well toriyama) art is more defining and liked than generic. And other than that, most people who say things like that havent played the games.

I think the main thing with DQ here is that there's a lot of heroes and there isn't one that stands above the rest, unlike cloud who's more popular for FF.
If the leaks are true thho then we'd be getting other heroes as alts, so that would appeal more fans. DQ3 hasnt had much since the snes, so it's much more of a retro rep.

The characters are definitely well-designed and the games are still amazing, but the characters are still somewhat standard-issue JRPG protagonist. Even the new games are meant to have a somewhat retro feel to them.

I agree that a potential army of heroes is much more exciting then just having Ederick, though it would also be a very large use of resources... It seems more likely it'd just be the classic Ederick plus the Luminary, but I'd be down for Madason, as DQV is my favourite.

 

[Sigran101]

DQ is definitely bigger and more important then MegaTen from a game history PoV. Problem is that Square Enix has a lot of IPs, many of which are a bit more popular within the Smash fan bubble then "legacy character who seems like a generic JRPG protagonist because he defined all of the generic tropes for a JRPG protagonist"...



I believe there was a Nintendo Switch news tab thing that said that it was coming out in February a week before it came out in January? But also I guess he did become available to purchase in February...

I don't recall any window being given aside from Jan or Feb, but I could be wrong. If true though, then maybe Joker in March is still possible!

 

[Hinata]

I don't recall any window being given aside from Jan or Feb, but I could be wrong. If true though, then maybe Joker in March is still possible!

From the News section in Ultimate. "Piranha Plant--scheduled for a Feburary 2019 release"

 

[Sigran101]

View attachment 197778

From the News section in Ultimate. "Piranha Plant--scheduled for a Feburary 2019 release"

Nice! This is one instance where I'm glad to be wrong. Hopefully the same thing happens with Joker!

 

[EarlTamm]

You know, I wonder if Morgana's interactions with a FeMC would be different from the MC. Of course gameplay related stuff like telling you to go to bed would stay the same, but I am thinking in the context of his more chivalrous traits. I know those traits are most evident when it comes to his interactions with Ann, but I do feel it might influence some things with the FeMC. Really, it's fair to say that the FeMC's chemistry will be different with all of the party members to varying degrees.

 

[Aeon_Shadow]

You know, I wonder if Morgana's interactions with a FeMC would be different from the MC. Of course gameplay related stuff like telling you to go to bed would stay the same, but I am thinking in the context of his more chivalrous traits. I know those traits are most evident when it comes to his interactions with Ann, but I do feel it might influence some things with the FeMC. Really, it's fair to say that the FeMC's chemistry will be different with all of the party members to varying degrees.

Good point, though I still think Morgana's interactions with a FeMC would still stay the same perhaps treat her the way he treats Makoto or something.