Social Hideout of the Phantom Thieves - Joker Social

[amageish]

There may also be a chance that this version is going to be Switch exclusive, if certain leaks are to be believed.

Spoiler: Persona 3 FES and Persona 5 Spoilers

I definitely think they are going to flesh out Akechi more. His popularity is to big to ignore, and heck, look at how highlighted he is in the PQ2 intro. Heck, I could see this games "The Answer" revolving around Akechi in a similar manner to how it revolved around Aigis.

Spoiler: Persona 3 FES and Persona 5 Spoilers

Agreed. Akechi comes back and has to slowly regain report with the Phantom Thieves - maybe, if they want to prevent the grind-heaviness of the anwser and go all-out, then they could add some shorter social links to go alongside these.

Yeah, I imagine it would be Switch or multiplatform. Catherine Full Body is still coming out for the Vita (and PS4), so its not like ATLUS isn't making weird decisions.

 

[EarlTamm]

Spoiler: Persona 3 FES and Persona 5 Spoilers

Agreed. Akechi comes back and has to slowly regain report with the Phantom Thieves - maybe, if they want to prevent the grind-heaviness of the anwser and go all-out, then they could add some shorter social links to go alongside these.

Yeah, I imagine it would be Switch or multiplatform. Catherine Full Body is still coming out for the Vita (and PS4), so its not like ATLUS isn't making weird decisions.

Spoiler: Persona 3 FES and Persona 5 Spoilers

It also helps that Akechi is also a wild card, likely meaning there would be little gameplay differences between the two. I could see the mini Confidants happen, as that would tie some loose ends with Akechi's character arc and give him some great development. It also always bothered me(And many others) how after Akechi played his role and "died", the game only mentioned him two more times throughout the rest of the game(One to confirm that they could not find his body and the other during the explanation of Yaldabaoth's plan. I doubt the dev's stopped caring, just that they wanted to leave room for the character if he were to make his return in a future expansion.

 

[amageish]

Spoiler: Persona 3 FES and Persona 5 Spoilers

It also helps that Akechi is also a wild card, likely meaning little gameplay differences between the two. I could see the mini Confidants happen, as that would tie some loose ends with Akechi's character arc and give him some great development. It also always bothered me(And many others) how after Akechi played his role and "died", the game only mentioned him two more times throughout the rest of the game(One to confirm that they could not find his body and the other during the explanation of Yaldabaoth's plan. I doubt the dev's stopped caring, just that they wanted to leave room for the character if he were to make his return in a future expansion.

Spoiler: Persona 3 FES and Persona 5 Spoilers

Definitely. There are a couple moments of the game that do feel like they left room for expansion in a future update - I wouldn't be too shocked if they added more dialogue for Hawaii or Destinyland (the latter especially felt like it was there solely as a SMT1 reference and a thematically-contrasting location). Akechi's exit from the story could definitely use some smoothing out as well - I also wonder if Sae's business card will have a use, as that's kind of just a random item in the game...

 

[C-G]

I'd rather we get a P3P situation where you could get Male or Female protags with different confidants, but I've accepted that doing so essentially doubles the workload for making the game.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Yeah, I imagine it would be Switch or multiplatform. Catherine Full Body is still coming out for the Vita (and PS4), so its not like ATLUS isn't making weird decisions.

Funny you say that, since the PT will be making an appearance there:

http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2018...y_is_packing_more_than_any_of_us_bargained_on

 

[Flyboy]

Maybe I'm in the minority...

Spoiler: MAJOR PERSONA 5 AND PERSONA 3 SPOILERS

but I absolutely do not want Akechi to live, period. His death was a heart-wrenching, complicated moment showing that people can make the right decision even if it's too late for them. His sacrifice was haunting and the finality of it was a genuine surprise, one I appreciated a lot. His story of someone who was given the same power as Joker only to use it in a completely different way and how that corrupted him and twisted him and ultimately made him yet another pawn of Yaldabaoth's unfair and cruel game was a sad but really complex edge to his story. He made his bed and in the end he had to lie in it, but at least he did what he could at the end to make some kind of amends, and you can't help but feel bad for the guy despite having him for having, yknow, sold you out and "killing" you in cold blood, because at the end of it he was just a part of Yaldabaoth's ****ty unfair system as you.

I get why people wish they could save him, but I feel by losing his final death you lose the meaning of his arc. It's why I feel that, as much as I adore the female route of P3P, the fact that you can save Shinji is a purely incorrect decision. It's still emotional, but the sense of longing and loss I felt when I realized that I only had him on social link level 8 and would never be able to see him again...it really hit me, man. And that same sense of longing and hurt hit me when I realized in Akechi's final moments that this guy I had grown to despise through the game really was caught up in the same week as I was, but made the wrong choices all the way down.

You just don't get to see such realistic and boldly-written detestable yet sympathetic villains often enough like that. I don't want to lose that.

 

[EarlTamm]

Maybe I'm in the minority...

Spoiler: MAJOR PERSONA 5 AND PERSONA 3 SPOILERS

but I absolutely do not want Akechi to live, period. His death was a heart-wrenching, complicated moment showing that people can make the right decision even if it's too late for them. His sacrifice was haunting and the finality of it was a genuine surprise, one I appreciated a lot. His story of someone who was given the same power as Joker only to use it in a completely different way and how that corrupted him and twisted him and ultimately made him yet another pawn of Yaldabaoth's unfair and cruel game was a sad but really complex edge to his story. He made his bed and in the end he had to lie in it, but at least he did what he could at the end to make some kind of amends, and you can't help but feel bad for the guy despite having him for having, yknow, sold you out and "killing" you in cold blood, because at the end of it he was just a part of Yaldabaoth's ****ty unfair system as you.

I get why people wish they could save him, but I feel by losing his final death you lose the meaning of his arc. It's why I feel that, as much as I adore the female route of P3P, the fact that you can save Shinji is a purely incorrect decision. It's still emotional, but the sense of longing and loss I felt when I realized that I only had him on social link level 8 and would never be able to see him again...it really hit me, man. And that same sense of longing and hurt hit me when I realized in Akechi's final moments that this guy I had grown to despise through the game really was caught up in the same week as I was, but made the wrong choices all the way down.

You just don't get to see such realistic and boldly-written detestable yet sympathetic villains often enough like that. I don't want to lose that.

Spoiler: Persona 3, 4, and 5 spoilers

I get that to an extent, especially as someone who is a sucker for character sacrifices. But here is the thing, his "death" did not have that much impact for me. Why? Because it's behind that wall. Because it's unknown if he is really dead. Right now we are in a Schrodinger's cat situation and it bugs the hell out of me. I should be tearing up at his death, not wondering if he is going to be coming back for the rest of my life. There is a lack of finality to this death, unlike Persona 3. And here is the thing, a part of me is still expecting to see Akechi die if he does make a comeback in an extra story for P5R, considering I don't see them repeating what they did with Adachi when it comes to getting arrested and taking responsibility(though it was great and I loved how they took it in Arena Ultimax), but also not letting a person who killed dozens of people(Including some of out paryt member's parents) get off scot free. His death is likely, but I see this as a chance to expand on things.

 

[amageish]

Funny you say that, since the PT will be making an appearance there:

http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2018...y_is_packing_more_than_any_of_us_bargained_on

Yeah, I heard. I really hope we get localization news for that game soon, as they announced its localization alongside its Japanese announcement (unlike the Dancing games, Etrian Odyssey Nexus, and the hopefully-still-going-to-be-localized Persona Q2), which makes me think we may be getting it closer to its Japanese release?

I'd rather we get a P3P situation where you could get Male or Female protags with different confidants, but I've accepted that doing so essentially doubles the workload for making the game.

Yeah, P5 would be especially interesting with a FeMC given how the game's focus on being a slave to societical norms (with said norms often being gendered), but I imagine that it would have to be the only addition they make to the game for it to be doable...

Maybe I'm in the minority...

Spoiler: MAJOR PERSONA 5 AND PERSONA 3 SPOILERS

but I absolutely do not want Akechi to live, period. His death was a heart-wrenching, complicated moment showing that people can make the right decision even if it's too late for them. His sacrifice was haunting and the finality of it was a genuine surprise, one I appreciated a lot. His story of someone who was given the same power as Joker only to use it in a completely different way and how that corrupted him and twisted him and ultimately made him yet another pawn of Yaldabaoth's unfair and cruel game was a sad but really complex edge to his story. He made his bed and in the end he had to lie in it, but at least he did what he could at the end to make some kind of amends, and you can't help but feel bad for the guy despite having him for having, yknow, sold you out and "killing" you in cold blood, because at the end of it he was just a part of Yaldabaoth's ****ty unfair system as you.

I get why people wish they could save him, but I feel by losing his final death you lose the meaning of his arc. It's why I feel that, as much as I adore the female route of P3P, the fact that you can save Shinji is a purely incorrect decision. It's still emotional, but the sense of longing and loss I felt when I realized that I only had him on social link level 8 and would never be able to see him again...it really hit me, man. And that same sense of longing and hurt hit me when I realized in Akechi's final moments that this guy I had grown to despise through the game really was caught up in the same week as I was, but made the wrong choices all the way down.

You just don't get to see such realistic and boldly-written detestable yet sympathetic villains often enough like that. I don't want to lose that.

Spoiler: More Major Persona 3 FES and Persona 5 Spoilers

Oh, I 100% agree with you from a storytelling point of view. Him being a pawn is a great motif and he serves as a fantastic contrast to Ren because of it. However, as EarlTamm pointed out, his death happened off-screen in the most Schrodinger's-cat-esque way and, frankly, it seems basically guaranteed that they did that to leave the door open for him to return in future spin-off games.

So, personally, if he didn't die, then I want an equally-good story to justify his return inside of a Persona 5 remake/port/ATLUS-weird-trend-of-adding-new-endings-to-ports-game, versus just being like "HEY GUYS! THIS IS PERSONA 5 ARENA AND AKECHI IS BACK! COOL HUH?" later.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Yeah, I heard. I really hope we get localization news for that game soon, as they announced its localization alongside its Japanese announcement (unlike the Dancing games, Etrian Odyssey Nexus, and the hopefully-still-going-to-be-localized Persona Q2), which makes me think we may be getting it closer to its Japanese release?

That'd be cool. I was always hesitant to getting Catherine since I vastly preferred the 360 cover art, but this iteration has a pretty good alternative. Plus those DLC packs.

 

[EarlTamm]

Yeah, P5 would be especially interesting with a FeMC given how the game's focus on being a slave to societical norms (with said norms often being gendered), but I imagine that it would have to be the only addition they make to the game for it to be doable...

Spoiler: P5 spoilers

Yeah, this is what I think as well. I would love to see a female Joker and how the story could differentiate for them considering all the theme's of the game and terrible people you meet that have in some way abused women(Now that I think about, almost every major confidant in some shape of form has done some terrible things to women. The only exceptions are major female targets themselves, Futaba and Sae, and they turn into full on allies by the end.). However, the cost would be great, and we would not get any extra stories for the game. And that would lead to me getting a Schrodinger's bulkhead door related migraine.

 

[kirbsmash]

Can I date the boys ?

 

[EarlTamm]

Can I date the boys ?

Tragically, no.

 

[kirbsmash]

Tragically, no.

In the likely remake, I meant

 

[EarlTamm]

In the likely remake, I meant

Unless they blindside us and actually make a female Joker, probably not. I mean, the fem MC from P3 as able to romance two female characters, but the two in question existed in a weird grey area.

Edit: Though there is some implication in some of the fem MC's other female social links, but the two I am referring two above is where we can safely say that some stuff went down. Keep in mind though, out of P3, 4 and 5, I am the least familiar with 3, so I apologize to everyone if I am getting stuff wrong.

 

[amageish]

Spoiler: "P5 spoilers

Yeah, this is what I think as well. I would love to see a female Joker and how the story could differentiate for them considering all the theme's of the game and terrible people you meet that have in some way abused women(Now that I think about, almost every major confidant in some shape of form has done some terrible things to women. The only exceptions are major female targets themselves, Futaba and Sae, and they turn into full on allies by the end.). However, the cost would be great, and we would not get any extra stories for the game. And that would lead to me getting a Schrodinger's bulkhead door related migraine.

Oh, definitely.

Spoiler: P5 Spoilers

Yeah, the mistreatment of women is definitely a major motif in the game - the villains do it and the Confidants/sidequests explore many more forms of abuse (Kawakami, Chihaya, and Hifumi especially). It's just hard to say if they would be willing to take the development time to add a new FeMC to explore this herself - especially when simply adding a bit of extra content into Joker's already-existent story would probably satisfy most fans.

That said: If they did have a FeMC and announced it on the 30th during the special anime episode, then do you think she'd be included as an alt in Smash?

Unless they blindside us and actually make a female Joker, probably not. I mean, the fem MC from P3 as able to romance two female characters, but the two in question existed in a weird grey area.

You could have a male-male romantic relationship in Persona 2: Innocent Sin as well, not that P2 has much of a lasting impact on the franchise apart from the Feathermen.

 

[Hinata]

Spoiler: "P5 spoilers

Yeah, this is what I think as well. I would love to see a female Joker and how the story could differentiate for them considering all the theme's of the game and terrible people you meet that have in some way abused women(Now that I think about, almost every major confidant in some shape of form has done some terrible things to women. The only exceptions are major female targets themselves, Futaba and Sae, and they turn into full on allies by the end.). However, the cost would be great, and we would not get any extra stories for the game. And that would lead to me getting a Schrodinger's bulkhead door related migraine.

Spoiler: P5 Spoilers

The introduction of a FeMC in P5 would certainly make Kamoshida's Palace, and interactions with Kamoshida in general, a MUCH different experience.

 

[EarlTamm]

Oh, definitely.

Spoiler: P5 Spoilers

Yeah, the mistreatment of women is definitely a major motif in the game - the villains do it and the Confidants/sidequests explore many more forms of abuse (Kawakami, Chihaya, and Hifumi especially). It's just hard to say if they would be willing to take the development time to do it - especially when simply adding a bit of extra content into Joker's already-existent story would probably satisfy most fans.

That said: If they did have a FeMC and announced it on the 30th during the special anime episode, then do you think she'd be included as an alt in Smash?

I think they would, especially with how much Smash loves fem alts.

You could have a male-male romantic relationship in Persona 2: Innocent Sin as well, not that P2 has much of a lasting impact on the franchise apart from the Feathermen.

Sorry, I have no clue about things pre P3, and I don't even know P3 that well.

 

[kirbsmash]

Spoiler: P5 Spoilers

The introduction of a FeMC in P5 would certainly make Kamoshida's Palace, and interactions with Kamoshida in general, a MUCH different experience.

Spoiler: P5 spoilers

He also was beat by cops.

 

[Flyboy]

Good: Introducing a female Joker path to create new perspectives on the overarching themes of inequality and injustice in society as well as changing how one views the stakes in each individual case along with potential for new confidants.

Bad: Introducing a female Joker path to take the coward's way out and not let Ren and Yusuke date despite the overall seemingly-romantic nature of their Confident path.

Regarding the remake, I really hope they don't change too much, really.

It's not that I don't have faith in Atlus in whatever they do but their track record is complicated when it comes to the updated remakes. On one hand, Minako/FemC was the best addition to Persona 3 they could have done, and they used it to make an already moving story even better, deeper, and more personal with a fresh perspective, excellently-written new main character, and some fantastic new social links while also including Aigis and Elizabeth romances plus dateable male party members and plenty of gameplay tweaks and extra scenes that are all for the better.

On the other hand said remake potentially changed a major plot point for what I absolutely see is for the worse, and when they remade Persona 4 they added the Poochy-esque Marie who stuck out in an already great story like a sore thumb and actively made the game worse. The new content was also very deep and interesting, but man, everything regarding Marie was...not very well-done.

If I have one wish with P5R it's to be pleasantly surprised. I just don't know how to improve on almost-perfection but hey, who knows.

 

[kirbsmash]

Good: Introducing a female Joker path to create new perspectives on the overarching themes of inequality and injustice in society as well as changing how one views the stakes in each individual case along with potential for new confidants.

Bad: Introducing a female Joker path to take the coward's way out and not let Ren and Yusuke date despite the overall seemingly-romantic nature of their Confident path.

Regarding the remake, I really hope they don't change too much, really.

It's not that I don't have faith in Atlus in whatever they do but their track record is complicated when it comes to the updated remakes. On one hand, Minako/FemC was the best addition to Persona 3 they could have done, and they used it to make an already moving story even better, deeper, and more personal with a fresh perspective, excellently-written new main character, and some fantastic new social links while also including Aigis and Elizabeth romances plus dateable male party members and plenty of gameplay tweaks and extra scenes that are all for the better.

On the other hand said remake potentially changed a major plot point for what I absolutely see is for the worse, and when they remade Persona 4 they added the Poochy-esque Marie who stuck out in an already great story like a sore thumb and actively made the game worse. The new content was also very deep and interesting, but man, everything regarding Marie was...not very well-done.

If I have one wish with P5R it's to be pleasantly surprised. I just don't know how to improve on almost-perfection but hey, who knows.

Give me BI Joker and I will be happy.

 

[EarlTamm]

Good: Introducing a female Joker path to create new perspectives on the overarching themes of inequality and injustice in society as well as changing how one views the stakes in each individual case along with potential for new confidants.

Bad: Introducing a female Joker path to take the coward's way out and not let Ren and Yusuke date despite the overall seemingly-romantic nature of their Confident path.

Regarding the remake, I really hope they don't change too much, really.

It's not that I don't have faith in Atlus in whatever they do but their track record is complicated when it comes to the updated remakes. On one hand, Minako/FemC was the best addition to Persona 3 they could have done, and they used it to make an already moving story even better, deeper, and more personal with a fresh perspective, excellently-written new main character, and some fantastic new social links while also including Aigis and Elizabeth romances plus dateable male party members and plenty of gameplay tweaks and extra scenes that are all for the better.

On the other hand said remake potentially changed a major plot point for what I absolutely see is for the worse, and when they remade Persona 4 they added the Poochy-esque Marie who stuck out in an already great story like a sore thumb and actively made the game worse. The new content was also very deep and interesting, but man, everything regarding Marie was...not very well-done.

If I have one wish with P5R it's to be pleasantly surprised. I just don't know how to improve on almost-perfection but hey, who knows.

You know, that is a thing I would like to note. I would absolutely find a fem P5 protag worth it in a new version if they took the natural narrative and thematic extreme's of such a concept in a game like P5. If it is just "Hey, you can finally date best boy like you always wanted" and nothing else, it would not be worth it, especially if it came at the cost of no extra story.

As far as P5R hope, I think it's going to be good. I don't see them pulling a Marie again. You can argue that they are doing something similar with Qatherine right now, but that seems to be changing up a lot more within the branching narrative itself rather than just inserting an extra character into a story that did not need the extra factors. And from the looks of things, it seems like they came into P5 with something in mind for if they wanted to make an extra version rather than trying to stitch something together when the game has already been made and shipped, at least if what some of us are speculating is true.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

At the least, the updated remakes brought us two good things; a proper localization of Persona 1, and the most hilariously awesome censorship decision ever made for a game. That's right, I'm talking about

Spoiler

sunglasses Hitler in Persona 2: Innocent Sin.

Also, I'm kind of amazed they managed to have a third Catherine that still uses a first letter with a "K" pronounciation, even though the Q is seldom used for that name.

 

[EarlTamm]

At the least, the updated remakes brought us two good things; a proper localization of Persona 1, and the most hilariously awesome censorship decision ever made for a game. That's right, I'm talking about

Spoiler

sunglasses Hitler in Persona 2: Innocent Sin.

Also, I'm kind of amazed they managed to have a third Catherine that still uses a first letter with a "K" pronounciation, even though the Q is seldom used for that name.

It bothers me that there is not a u after the Q, but that may just be me.

Edit:
Anyway, if this P5R game is going to be Switch exclusive, do you think there will be some Nintendo related things put in the game as extra selling points for Nintendo fans? That tends to be a trend for series know for being on other consoles before coming over to Nintendo.

 

[amageish]

Sorry, I have no clue about things pre P3, and I don't even know P3 that well.

Not many people do, I'm not judging haha. Despite P2 not having social links, there is a scene wherein you can declare your affection for one of your party members and the rest of the plot plays out with you dating them.

Good: Introducing a female Joker path to create new perspectives on the overarching themes of inequality and injustice in society as well as changing how one views the stakes in each individual case along with potential for new confidants.

Bad: Introducing a female Joker path to take the coward's way out and not let Ren and Yusuke date despite the overall seemingly-romantic nature of their Confident path.

Regarding the remake, I really hope they don't change too much, really.

It's not that I don't have faith in Atlus in whatever they do but their track record is complicated when it comes to the updated remakes. On one hand, Minako/FemC was the best addition to Persona 3 they could have done, and they used it to make an already moving story even better, deeper, and more personal with a fresh perspective, excellently-written new main character, and some fantastic new social links while also including Aigis and Elizabeth romances plus dateable male party members and plenty of gameplay tweaks and extra scenes that are all for the better.

On the other hand said remake potentially changed a major plot point for what I absolutely see is for the worse, and when they remade Persona 4 they added the Poochy-esque Marie who stuck out in an already great story like a sore thumb and actively made the game worse. The new content was also very deep and interesting, but man, everything regarding Marie was...not very well-done.

If I have one wish with P5R it's to be pleasantly surprised. I just don't know how to improve on almost-perfection but hey, who knows.

ATLUS has definitely made some unique decisions with their enhanced remakes, yeah - I mean, there is precedent for us to get Persona 5 R featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry Series. FeMC was fantastic in P3P and, while I found Marie's emoness too hilarious to detract from my experience personally (seriously, those poems are hillariously agnsty and I love them even more in Q wherein they don't even bother to try to make them symbolically relevant), P4G's main gains were in more social goofing-off-type content (which I would definitely appreciate more of with Persona 5) and not in story content. I definitely have my worries about the port, but I'll trust that ATLUS knows the pressure is on and they'll cook up something well-thought-through.

Give me BI Joker and I will be happy.

This. I mean, Ren being bisexual would also reflect the theme of rebellion pretty darn well given how gay marriage is still illegal in Japan (in spite of a majority of the population supporting it).

You know, that is a thing I would like to note. I would absolutely find a fem P5 protag worth it in a new version if they took the natural narrative and thematic extreme's of such a concept in a game like P5. If it is just "Hey, you can finally date best boy like you always wanted" and nothing else, it would not be worth it, especially if it came at the cost of no extra story.

As far as P5R hope, I think it's going to be good. I don't see them pulling a Marie again. You can argue that they are doing something similar with Qatherine right now, but that seems to be changing up a lot more within the branching narrative itself rather than just inserting an extra character into a story that did not need the extra factors. And from the looks of things, it seems like they came into P5 with something in mind for if they wanted to make an extra version rather than trying to stitch something together when the game has already been made and shipped, at least if what some of us are speculating is true.

For Rin's inclusion, it's also rumored that they're releasing a Catherine Classic sometime too for people who don't want a changed story. It also should be noted that the director has stated that this is actually a restoration the original plan for Catherine (though you can choose not to believe him if you wish). So, I don't see them changing as much as they are in Catherine.

Edit: Actually, thinking about it more, if they were to pull a Catherine Full Body and restore cut content, then I guess we could see Hifumi become a Phantom Thief?

If this P5R game is going to be Switch exclusive, do you think there will be some Nintendo related things put in the game as extra selling points for Nintendo fans? That tends to be a trend for series know for being on other consoles before coming over to Nintendo.

At minumum, I feel like they may explicitly call the "retro game console" a Famicom and make Futaba's Nintendo jokes more overt (ex/ actually call it "Super Smash Bros").

 

[EarlTamm]

Not many people do, I'm not judging haha. Despite P2 not having social links, there is a scene wherein you can declare your affection for one of your party members and the rest of the plot plays out with you dating them.

Wait, so it actually affects the story, even just a little bit? It would be nice to have relationships play a bigger factor in the newer games, but I guess that is difficult nowadays considering how many factors are at play.

This. I mean, Ren being bisexual would also reflect the theme of rebellion pretty darn well given how gay marriage is still illegal in Japan (in spite of a majority of the population supporting it).

Absolutely. If Joker can date older women, I don't see why they cant have him get with the guys. The only possible determent I can see to this is that the cafe would get a lot more cramped if you decided to be a filthy cheater, but that is just karma at work.

For Rin's inclusion, it's also rumored that they're releasing a Catherine Classic sometime too for people who don't want a changed story. It also should be noted that the director has stated that this is actually a restoration the original plan for Catherine (though you can choose not to believe him if you wish). So, I don't see them changing as much as they are in Catherine.

Huh, neat.

At minumum, I feel like they may explicitly call the "retro game console" a Famicom and make Futaba's Nintendo jokes more overt (ex/ actually call it "Super Smash Bros").

I do think that would be the minimum. I could also see Joker once again taking after Bayonetta and getting some Nintendo themed costumes for the Phantom Thieves. If they are going to do costumes though, I hope there is a Lucina one. She already has a fitting mask with her character, and it's a butterfly mask. Talk about appropriate. Perhaps they could also do something similar to that Dante thing you and so many others have mentioned.

 

[Flyboy]

Look, if P5R is Switch-exclusive I'm just saying there's no reason we shouldn't be able to summon Palutena as a Persona.

 

[EarlTamm]

Look, if P5R is Switch-exclusive I'm just saying there's no reason we shouldn't be able to summon Palutena as a Persona.

I would want to summon Hades. Really, most of the Kid Icarus cast would fit well as Persona's. Throw in some LoZ gods, some Kirby abominations and a few powerful characters from more obscure sources(I want to summon Giygas), and you got a good Nintendo exclusive Persona list.

 

[amageish]

Wait, so it actually affects the story, even just a little bit? It would be nice to have relationships play a bigger factor in the newer games, but I guess that is difficult nowadays considering how many factors are at play.

Yeah! It's acknowledged within the main story at least, even if it isn't super important.

Absolutely. If Joker can date older women, I don't see why they cant have him get with the guys. The only possible determent I can see to this is that the cafe would get a lot more cramped if you decided to be a filthy cheater, but that is just karma at work.

True, but it would get more cramped if they were adding in a Marie-like character anyway...

I do think that would be the minimum. I could also see Joker once again taking after Bayonetta and getting some Nintendo themed costumes for the Phantom Thieves. If they are going to do costumes though, I hope there is a Lucina one. She already has a fitting mask with her character, and it's a butterfly mask. Talk about appropriate. Perhaps they could also do something similar to that Dante thing you and so many others have mentioned.

Ooooooh, that would be super cool! Lucina definitely would fit super well as a costume... Otherwise, I imagine a Link outfit for Yusuke that replaces his fox mask with a Keaton Mask would be cool.

If they did go full-on "featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series," then I hope they execute it better this time as Dante was very weirdly forced into Nocturne...

I would want to summon Hades. Really, most of the Kid Icarus cast would fit well as Persona's. Throw in some LoZ gods, some Kirby abominations and a few powerful characters from more obscure sources(I want to summon Giygas), and you got a good Nintendo exclusive Persona list.

This! If you can get Pokemon company on board somehow, Arceus would be perfect, but that's definitely unrealistic. Hylia, Farore, Din, and Nayru from Legend of Zelda would be good. Mila and Duma would be great for Fire Emblem representation. Otherwise, I feel like Rosalina could be included given how she has god-esque powers even if she isn't worshipped by the Mario cast... I feel like they'd have to include a Mario character out of obligation.

 

[EarlTamm]

True, but it would get more cramped if they were adding in a Marie-like character anyway...

Yeah, but that's one extra person compared to nearly doubling the crowd in size. Plus, Marie was strangely exempt from the determent of cheating. There is no consequence to dating Marie as well as other people, perhaps due to her unique nature among the rest of the romance options.

Ooooooh, that would be super cool! Lucina definitely would fit super well as a costume... Otherwise, I imagine a Link outfit for Yusuke that replaces his fox mask with a Keaton Mask would be cool.

If they did go full-on "featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series," then I hope they execute it better this time as Dante was very weirdly forced into Nocturne...

I saw some great art of Lucina in the Persona 5 style, and it is really striking. Perhaps in another timeline, she would have made a great Phantom Thief. As for other costumes, Futaba as an Inkling is obvious, I could easily see Makoto rocking a Samus look, or if they wanted to go obscure, Mach Rider, and I strangely want Haru to get a Masked Dedede costume.

Spoiler: Lucina art

Phantom Thief Lucina! This was a fun redesign~#FireEmblem #FireEmblemAwakening #Persona5 #SuperSmashBrosUltimate pic.twitter.com/B49IVFgzZF

— Haku🍜 (@Hakuramen) December 22, 2018

Out of curiosity, how was Dante implemented?

Otherwise, I feel like Rosalina could be included given how she has god-esque powers even if she isn't worshipped by the Mario cast... I feel like they'd have to include a Mario character out of obligation.

Perhaps it's the memory of an art piece I saw before influencing me, but Rosalina almost seems more like a Velvet Room attendant more than anything else. I know that is not how they would implement a Rosalina cameo, but it's fun to think about. I do agree that they would include a Mario character of some sort.

Spoiler: The mentioned Rosalina art

 

[amageish]

Yeah, but that's one extra person compared to nearly doubling the crowd in size. Plus, Marie was strangely exempt from the determent of cheating. There is no consequence to dating Marie as well as other people, perhaps due to her unique nature among the rest of the romance options.

True... I forgot that about Marie and also neglected to consider that P5 let you romance adult Confidants... I'm sure they could figure out special dialogue for the scenario in which you go for literally everyone though.

I saw some great art of Lucina in the Persona 5 style, and it is really striking. Perhaps in another timeline, she would have made a great Phantom Thief. As for other costumes, Futaba as an Inkling is obvious, I could easily see Makoto rocking a Samus look, or if they wanted to go obscure, Mach Rider, and I strangely want Haru to get a Masked Dedede costume.

That is some fantastic fanart. Haru as Masked Dedede would be mildly hilarious, but sure - and the other ones fit perfectly (especially if you do Hero Suit Inkling, as that would look somewhat like Oracle). Morgana as Pikachu would be funny, given how they share a Japanese VA, but obviously wouldn't happen because of the Pokemon Company, so maybe Duck Hunt Dog ("I'm not a dog; I'm a cat. Wait... I'M NEITHER!"). Then we just have Ryuji and Joker himself...

Out of curiosity, how was Dante implemented?

Spoiler: Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne Maniax Spoilers

Dante appears throughout the first part of the game as a psuedo-enemy who seems, understandably, confused by the state of Tokyo (as the apocalypse occurs very close to the beginning of the game). He is ordered to hunt down demons and the protagonist by reoccurring SMT character Louis Cyphre, but grows suspicious of Louis' motivations. You fight Dante quite a few times before he basically goes "Eh, screw it" and offers to join your party - either charging you 1 Macca (in-game currency) or half of all the Macca you have on-hand based on a coin-flip. Once he joins your party, he proceeds to do a whole lot of nothing story-wise and his fate isn't mentioned in the endgame.

It's a very weird crossover that was removed from the next enhanced port of Nocturne, Nocturne Chronicles, wherein Dante's role was given to the MegaTen character Raidou Kuzunoha the XIV (and his talking cat partner Gouto).

Perhaps it's the memory of an art piece I saw before influencing me, but Rosalina almost seems more like a Velvet Room attendant more than anything else. I know that is not how they would implement a Rosalina cameo, but it's fun to think about. I do agree that they would include a Mario character of some sort.

I have seen that art before and it is very good - a Nintendo-themed Persona-esque game would be lucky to have her as a Velvet Room equivlant (though they maybe would stick to TMS#FE's use of Tiki for that role). Rosalina just seems like the closest Mario gets to have a character of an average MegaTen demon's caliber power-wise.

 

[EarlTamm]

Haru as Masked Dedede would be mildly hilarious, but sure

I think it's the axe and more heavy weaponry tha tis making me think of Masked Dedede specifically.

Spoiler: Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne Maniax Spoilers

Dante appears throughout the first part of the game as a psuedo-enemy who seems, understandably, confused by the state of Tokyo (as the apocalypse occurs very close to the beginning of the game). He is ordered to hunt down demons and the protagonist by reoccurring SMT character Louis Cyphre, but grows suspicious of Louis' motivations. You fight Dante quite a few times before he basically goes "Eh, screw it" and offers to join your party - either charging you 1 Macca (in-game currency) or half of all the Macca you have on-hand based on a coin-flip. Once he joins your party, he proceeds to do a whole lot of nothing story-wise and his fate isn't mentioned in the endgame.

It's a very weird crossover that was removed from the next enhanced port of Nocturne, Nocturne Chronicles, wherein Dante's role was given to the MegaTen character Raidou Kuzunoha the XIV (and his talking cat partner Gouto).

Okay then, I don't think they would try anything like that with a Nintendo character for P5. It would not fit at all, both thematically and logically.

I have seen that art before and it is very good - a Nintendo-themed Persona-esque game would be lucky to have her as a Velvet Room equivlant (though they maybe would stick to TMS#FE's use of Tiki for that role). Rosalina just seems like the closest Mario gets to have a character of an average MegaTen demon's caliber power-wise.

I almost feel like if Persona 5 R is going to be Switch exclusive, as well as Joker being in Smash, I could easily see them making a transition to a more Nintendo X Persona based game. Especially with TMS#FE not really making any waves if I recall correctly. But then again, I had little interest in anything relating to either series at the time, so perhaps I am mistaken.

 

[amageish]

Okay then, I don't think they would try anything like that with a Nintendo character for P5. It would not fit at all, both thematically and logically.

Oh, yeah, I more meant it as an example of what kind of weird things ATLUS has done in enhanced ports/remakes before haha. It could maybe work again for SMTV, but generally speaking its more of a meme then something people remember fondly as a "good decision"...

I almost feel like if Persona 5 R is going to be Switch exclusive, as well as Joker being in Smash, I could easily see them making a transition to a more Nintendo X Persona based game. Especially with TMS#FE not really making any waves if I recall correctly. But then again, I had little interest in anything relating to either series at the time, so perhaps I am mistaken.

You recall correctly! That game flopped by Wii U standards, sadly. It was a critical success, but it lost fan support way before release.

The initial teaser trailer was completely incongruent with the final product - apparently the game was originally going to be a traditional crossover, but the developers felt that it would become less of a "SMT and Fire Emblem characters meet in an awesome way" and more of a "Fire Emblem game developed by people who have never developed a Fire Emblem game and therefore have no idea what they're doing ft. SMT characters." So, they scrapped everything and made a game about the challenges of working in the Japanese entertainment industry. This was partly inspired by a rejected project plan for Fire Emblem Awakening (with this scene in the first gameplay trailer being a direct copy of a FEA plan), but the change was still super drastic and did not sit well with either SMT or FE fans. Oh, and also the English localization had no dub and quite a bit of censorship, causing even more backlash and negative press.

Personally, I find the game to be a mess but hillariously so. There were constant rumors about it getting an expansion or being ported to Switch (rumors that began in 2016 and continued well into this year), but speculation has largely died down - especially as a possible Persona 5 port becomes more and more likely.

 

[EarlTamm]

You recall correctly! That game flopped by Wii U standards, sadly. It was a critical success, but it lost fan support way before release.

The initial teaser trailer was completely incongruent with the final product - apparently the game was originally going to be a traditional crossover, but the developers felt that it would become less of a "SMT and Fire Emblem characters meet in an awesome way" and more of a "Fire Emblem game developed by people who have never developed a Fire Emblem game and therefore have no idea what they're doing ft. SMT characters." So, they scrapped everything and made a game about the challenges of working in the Japanese entertainment industry. This was partly inspired by a rejected project plan for Fire Emblem Awakening (with this scene in the first gameplay trailer being a direct copy of a FEA plan), but the change was still super drastic and did not sit well with either SMT or FE fans. Oh, and also the English localization had no dub and quite a bit of censorship, causing even more backlash and negative press.

Personally, I find the game to be a mess but hillariously so. There were constant rumors about it getting an expansion or being ported to Switch (rumors that began in 2016 and continued well into this year), but speculation has largely died down - especially as a possible Persona 5 port becomes more and more likely.

That sounds more like a Persona game than a SMT game. At least in its concept. And if P5R is coming to the Switch, then yeah, a port for the game is dead in the water. On the bright side, the Wii U will finally have a game that is guaranteed to not be eventually scooped up by the Switch, so there's that...
Wow, that is actually depressing on so many levels.

 

[amageish]

That sounds more like a Persona game than a SMT game. At least in its concept. And if P5R is coming to the Switch, then yeah, a port for the game is dead in the water. On the bright side, the Wii U will finally have a game that is guaranteed to not be eventually scooped up by the Switch, so there's that...
Wow, that is actually depressing on so many levels.

Yeah, whether or not it is more Persona or Shin Megami Tensei is a debate people often get into (though I personally think that's splitting hairs). It was a different part of ATLUS that made it then Studio Zero or P-Team, so it's still technically possible, but it's definitely improbable. Congratulations on the Wii U for having an exclusive that may stay exclusive though - TMS#FE can be to the Wii U like Jack Bros was the Virtual Boy.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Incidentally, NL thinks that Mirage Sessions could have a second lease on life on the Switch:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...wii_u_games_wed_like_to_see_on_switch_in_2019

Unfortunately, even Pikmin 3 and W101 stand a better chance than it at being brought over.

It bothers me that there is not a u after the Q, but that may just be me.

Edit:
Anyway, if this P5R game is going to be Switch exclusive, do you think there will be some Nintendo related things put in the game as extra selling points for Nintendo fans? That tends to be a trend for series know for being on other consoles before coming over to Nintendo.

I suppose they could give some Nintendo outfits for the party (e.g. Inkling Futaba, Peach Ann, etc).

 

[amageish]

Incidentally, NL thinks that Mirage Sessions could have a second lease on life on the Switch:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...wii_u_games_wed_like_to_see_on_switch_in_2019

That's a well-timed comment haha.

Sakurai has also made his first comment on Joker's inclusion in Smash! As per NintendoEverything's translation, here it is:

Early on in release day, we revealed that Persona 5’s protagonist, Joker, is going to join Ultimate’s roster as another fighter. Joker is the first of Ultimate’s DLC characters, so the character isn’t at a stage in development where he’s playable yet. That being said, development has been progressing soundly. As readers familiar with my columns may already know, I personally have a lot of respect for P5. I really think that working on this character has been an endless source of motivation for me.

As for the character himself and how we’re going about it, there’ll probably be another time where I can touch on it; for now, though, it’s a secret. What I’d like to talk about first is his reveal.

Nintendo had first approached me with a request: “We want you to reveal that Joker’s in development at The Game Awards 2018.” The timing wasn’t bad at all, it really was what made the flower that was Ultimate’s release bloom. Of course, I hadn’t even started on development at that point, so there wasn’t any gameplay we could show off.

To that end, I thought that we could reveal him through an animated cutscene.

After seeing The Game Awards’ venue, I thought about how I could make the reveal interesting. I’d eventually reach the idea that Joker would infiltrate the venue and steal its “treasure” – an invitation to Smash.

I’m familiar with P5, so writing dialogue that suited the character wasn’t much of an issue. Scheduling with Joker’s voice actor – who’s quite popular – was a different story. We had fun recording the lines, though; the atmosphere in the recording studio was pretty cheerful. We only ended up with a few lines of dialogue, though… What a waste…

I’m not sure about whether or not we’ll do reveal movies for the other DLC fighters, but I’d like to do what I can (within the realm of possibility) to make sure you all enjoy them.

It follows what we expected haha. It definitely does make me think we may not see any in-game footage of Joker in the January Direct, sadly, but it's fun to imagine Sakurai plotting a Phantom Thief heist.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

That's a well-timed comment haha.

Sakurai has also made his first comment on Joker's inclusion in Smash! As per NintendoEverything's translation, here it is:



It follows what we expected haha. It definitely does make me think we may not see any in-game footage of Joker in the January Direct, sadly, but it's fun to imagine Sakurai plotting a Phantom Thief heist.

It also more or less confirms my theory that the other DLC fighters might get trailers of their own (which was sorely lacking much of any in 4's DLC dev cycle).

 

[EarlTamm]

That's a well-timed comment haha.

Sakurai has also made his first comment on Joker's inclusion in Smash! As per NintendoEverything's translation, here it is:



It follows what we expected haha. It definitely does make me think we may not see any in-game footage of Joker in the January Direct, sadly, but it's fun to imagine Sakurai plotting a Phantom Thief heist.

I am surprised that getting Xander would be difficult for them, as he does the voice of the announcer, Master Hand and Crazy Hand.

 

[amageish]

It also more or less confirms my theory that the other DLC fighters might get trailers of their own (which was sorely lacking much of any in 4's DLC dev cycle).

I like the idea of random trailers in Directs spontaneously being revealed to be Smash-related. I hope they keep up with the format!

I am surprised that getting Xander would be difficult for them, as he does the voice of the announcer, Master Hand and Crazy Hand.

He was definitely talking about the Japanese voice actor, Jun Fukuyama - though he does also voice Roy.

 

[osby]

He was definitely talking about the Japanese voice actor, Jun Fukuyama - though he does also voice Roy.

Even then, he's a pretty big name in voice acting business, so it shouldn't be surprising.