Social Hideout of the Phantom Thieves - Joker Social

[Luigifan18]

Oh, and speaking of the SMT metaverse, this now officially means we get representation from a franchise stuffed with Christian references. If people got worried about Devil World stuff in Smash before, they'd have an aneurysm over knowing what SMT has.

And the Catholic fundies raising a stink over "Devil World" would have strokes over the fact that SMT draws specifically from Gnosticism, meaning that it portrays God/YHVH in a less-than-flattering light... (Heck, Persona 5 itself takes the Gnostic mythos elements of SMT and puts them front-and-center, though going into more detail than that would spoil the endgame.)

 

[amageish]

And the Catholic fundies raising a stink over "Devil World" would have strokes over the fact that SMT draws specifically from Gnosticism, meaning that it portrays God/YHVH in a less-than-flattering light... (Heck, Persona 5 itself takes the Gnostic mythos elements of SMT and puts them front-and-center, though going into more detail than that would spoil the endgame.)

I am kind of surprised that SMT has never had a stink raised about it - like, I know it is niche, but it isn't that niche. I mean, it really throws a bunch of religions, mythologies, and folklore together - with little descrimination for what is or is not believed in. Persona 5 is really all over the place with its main story's mythological persona - we have some Greek, some Chinese, some Syrian, some Japanese, some Gnostic, some Roman, some Norse, etc. - but its compartively-mild to mainline SMT wherein so many different traditions can appear fighting on the same side of a singular war.

As a mythology nerd, I love the repurposing of mythologies this series does, but I don't imagine everyone would appreciate it.

 

[Luigifan18]

I am kind of surprised that SMT has never had a stink raised about it - like, I know it is niche, but it isn't that niche. I mean, it really throws a bunch of religions, mythologies, and folklore together - with little descrimination for what is or is not believed in. Persona 5 is really all over the place with its main story's mythological persona - we have some Greek, some Chinese, some Syrian, some Japanese, some Gnostic, some Roman, some Norse, etc. - but its compartively-mild to mainline SMT wherein so many different traditions can appear fighting on the same side of a singular war.

As a mythology nerd, I love the repurposing of mythologies this series does, but I don't imagine everyone would appreciate it.

...Do they have anything Slavic? Perun, Veles, Rod, Svarog, Chernabog, Triglav, Jarilo, et cetera... I'm pretty into Slavic mythology, in part because it gets neglected in pop culture, making it kind of an underdog among pagans.

Spoiler

The whole "God is evil and an imposter" angle is very clearly Gnostic, though.

 

[amageish]

...Do they have anything Slavic? Perun, Veles, Rod, Svarog, Chernabog, Triglav, Jarilo, et cetera... I'm pretty into Slavic mythology, in part because it gets neglected in pop culture, making it kind of an underdog among pagans.

Spoiler

The whole "God is evil and an imposter" angle is very clearly Gnostic, though.

Heck yes they do! Chernobog is definitely one of the series staple demons and he can appear in the Mementos in Persona 5. Triglav is also fairly common, though they weren't in Persona 5 for whatever reason. Perun's non-Slavic counterpart Kresnik is also pretty common (demons go under multiple names sometimes due to how mythology evolves geographically). Jarlio is one of the newer demons in the series, only being in SMTIV and its direct sequel/AU SMTIVA, but he'll probably be back in SMTV on the Switch.

That said, googling it, Slavic demons are definitely the most abundant in the DemiKids sub-series - the kid-friendly Pokemon-esque SMT series. I don't know much about that series myself though.

The MegaTen wiki is your friend if you're curious about what demons are included or where they are from. They sort all of them franchise-wide by their origins, where they appear, their arcana/race when they appear, etc. You also can find some very weird things - like, for example, Jason Voorhees was a demon in the original Megami Tensei series, under the name "Friday" to avoid getting into legal trouble.

Spoiler: Giant P5 Spoilers

True. Plus, the final bossfight is literally the gnostic Demiurge, who you defeat by summoning a semi-obscure fallen angel. Using psuedo-Christian mythos as symbolic of repressive values is a pretty common motif in Japanese JRPGSs overall, but it is done exceptionally well in P5.

 

[SmashBro99]

So whats this anime boy all about, is he a swordsman too?

 

[EarlTamm]

So whats this anime boy all about, is he a swordsman too?

While he does wield a blade, he is actually the first character in Smash to wield a knife.

 

[Flyboy]

So whats this anime boy all about, is he a swordsman too?

He's a few things. He doesn't use a sword, it's more of a dagger and he also has a gun. He's a phantom thief that basically infiltrates peoples' subconscious to change their desires and rid the world of corruption. VERY flashy and stylish. He also has the power of a Persona, a mythological being he can summon to do magical attacks with. In his case, he has Arsene, the representation of the legendary Phantom Thief Arsene Lupin, and he uses dark and curse-based magic. He can control the summon independently of his own knife and gun moves. He's agile, too!

Of course, in the real world, he's a mild-mannered high schooler. He's a good kid, but due to being framed for a crime he didn't commit he yearns for justice in his heart, so in the subconscious world he becomes that phantom thief with the codename Joker, a charming and rebellious soul out to help the world become a better place. A picaresque hero.

 

[Robertman2]

So whats this anime boy all about, is he a swordsman too?

nah

He's a Jojo

 

[SmashBro99]

He's a few things. He doesn't use a sword, it's more of a dagger and he also has a gun. He's a phantom thief that basically infiltrates peoples' subconscious to change their desires and rid the world of corruption. VERY flashy and stylish. He also has the power of a Persona, a mythological being he can summon to do magical attacks with. In his case, he has Arsene, the representation of the legendary Phantom Thief Arsene Lupin, and he uses dark and curse-based magic. He can control the summon independently of his own knife and gun moves. He's agile, too!

Of course, in the real world, he's a mild-mannered high schooler. He's a good kid, but due to being framed for a crime he didn't commit he yearns for justice in his heart, so in the subconscious world he becomes that phantom thief with the codename Joker, a charming and rebellious soul out to help the world become a better place. A picaresque hero.

Omg he is just an anime character lol

Dont get me wrong, sounds like a cool addition

While he does wield a blade, he is actually the first character in Smash to wield a knife.

Nah, Sheik uses one in her FS no?

 

[EarlTamm]

Nah, Sheik uses one in her FS no?

True, but that is just for the FS, not the whole moveset. It's like saying Kirby is a sword user because he brings out the utra sword for his FS. Joker would use his knife in much more depth.

Anyway, I found this glorious art.

Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it. pic.twitter.com/ck1Xffl3hv

— Fran (@franmm127) December 12, 2018

 

[FamicomDisk]

Anyway, I found this glorious art.

Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it. pic.twitter.com/ck1Xffl3hv

— Fran (@franmm127) December 12, 2018

"I do want the chocolates."

 

[SmashKeks]

To the people who have played Persona 5: Is there any way we can construe Joker's specials as a boring charge shot that manifests in an energy sphere, an unspectacular command grab side special, and a bland, dime-a-dozen counter for his down special? Maybe up-special is Iunno a single swift upwards movement that sends him into free fall if whiffed?

 

[Deleted member]

It has been a week since he was confirmed for Smash and my mind still hasn't gotten over it. I often go on SmashWiki just to make sure that I wasn't having a lucid dream of him getting in Smash Bros.
While there have been characters in the past that I have been excited for (namely Sonic, Robin, Shulk, Cloud, and King K. Rool to name a few), Joker was the only character that truly got me out of my seat and screaming that he got in Smash. I've always said that I wanted him in Smash and when I played P5 last year, I've thought, "Dang, Joker would be so awesome to have in Smash Bros. He's practically made for it!" I just never thought it would happen and the fact that it did makes me speechless. You could say I never saw it coming!
To get a little sappy and personal here, Joker's inclusion to me means a lot more than just having him or P5 content in the game.

Spoiler

Last year, I had a job where the people I worked with treated me nicely. But then... things changed for some reason and I was treated like dirt. I quit my job and went job searching.
I was on the fence on playing P5 as I never played a Persona game prior, but I was recommended by some friends. The plot of the game involved changing the hearts of corrupt individuals and adults... people like that whom I have experienced in real life. The game came out at the perfect time in my life and helped me cope during this admittedly difficult time in my life.
I also owe P5 for helping me get closer with my girlfriend, who also hasn't played a Persona game prior and I recommended the game to her. Now she is a massive Persona fan and has played P3P and plans to play P4G.
So yes, Joker's inclusion means to me more than just a character from an awesome game. P5 represents a point in my life where i needed to grow, become stronger, and mature.
No matter what people think of the game in a few years, I will always love Persona 5 and I owe that game a lot. It's within my top 5 RPGs and maybe even games of all-time. While I don't think it's perfect, it's an incredible game that helped me out so much and I implore anyone who hasn't played it yet to wake up, get up, and get out there to buy a copy.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

True, but that is just for the FS, not the whole moveset. It's like saying Kirby is a sword user because he brings out the utra sword for his FS. Joker would use his knife in much more depth.

Anyway, I found this glorious art.

Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it. pic.twitter.com/ck1Xffl3hv

— Fran (@franmm127) December 12, 2018

On the bright side, he hasn't sent any invites to Leaf, that's extra pain.

 

[EarlTamm]

On the bright side, he hasn't sent any invites to Leaf, that's extra pain.

Or maybe Leaf was the one he spent Valentine's Day with. The context of this situation does mean that he had to have spent it with someone.

 

[Robertman2]

Or maybe Leaf was the one he spent Valentine's Day with. The context of this situation does mean that he had to have spent it with someone.

Rosalina and Bayo are missing too.

Also Leaf is ten

 

[Flyboy]

Rosalina and Bayo are missing too.

Also Leaf is ten

So with Bayonetta his mother that means Rosalina is the one he spent it with. Process of elimination. I see.

 

[EarlTamm]

Rosalina and Bayo are missing too.

Also Leaf is ten

True, but Smash headcanon dictates that Bayonetta is now his mother, so that's a no go. It could also be fem Robin or fem Corrin.

 

[Deleted member]

So, why does everyone say that Bayonetta is his mother now?

 

[EarlTamm]

So, why does everyone say that Bayonetta is his mother now?

They are both Sega character's with numerous similarities in appearance, personality and style. That and it's funny.

 

[Deleted member]

They are both Sega character's with numerous similarities in appearance, personality and style. That and it's funny.

That makes sense. And it is pretty funny now that you mention it.

 

[StormC]

It's funny. I'm the only person here who didn't think he was a pipe dream. I constantly argued that Joker had a very good chance, then I gave up on him at the last second. And I literally gave up just because I thought it had been confirmed that the dlc was decided in 2015.

The moment Sakurai said he was a huge fan of Persona 5, I kept a mental space for the possibility of Joker. I still didn't outright expect him, but I always considered it a small possibility (if SMT was getting any type of representation it would definitely be through Persona). When it was revealed Nintendo played a part in choosing DLC, I sorta assumed it wouldn't happen, but it turns out Sakurai probably had more control than initially thought.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

The moment Sakurai said he was a huge fan of Persona 5, I kept a mental space for the possibility of Joker. I still didn't outright expect him, but I always considered it a small possibility (if SMT was getting any type of representation it would definitely be through Persona). When it was revealed Nintendo played a part in choosing DLC, I sorta assumed it wouldn't happen, but it turns out Sakurai probably had more control than initially thought.

Well, of course he could make a character out of Joker. Maybe Nintendo gave him another ATLUS character choice (the reason he's in) but went with him.

 

[THE 6r]

Kirby, Piranha Plant and Joker saving the fighters from Galeem's hold.

I can't believe that this is a factual statement.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So, would Joker leave Isabelle alone because he isn't into animals? (Or more accurately, because he doesn't want to incur Villager's wrath.)

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

On the bright side, he hasn't sent any invites to Leaf, that's extra pain.

Maybe because she tried to catch him in a poke ball after seeing him conjure a Persona? :U

Girl seems a bit more unhinged these days if ya know what I mean.

 

[StormC]

I think it would be cool if after all the DLC is released, there's a bonus world announced for WOL with all the DLC characters and their spirits.

Well, of course he could make a character out of Joker. Maybe Nintendo gave him another ATLUS character choice (the reason he's in) but went with him.

I assume Nintendo said he could have his pick of an SMT/ATLUS character due to their good business relationship, and he landed on Joker.

Bet even Nintendo never saw that one coming.

 

[EarlTamm]

Maybe because she tried to catch him in a poke ball after seeing him conjure a Persona? :U

Girl seems a bit more unhinged these days if ya know what I mean.

That's a funny image.

 

[C-G]

So, would Joker leave Isabelle alone because he isn't into animals? (Or more accurately, because he doesn't want to incur Villager's wrath.)

Nah, he just doesn't want another small anthropomorphic animal to tell him that he has to go to sleep

 

[Flyboy]

Nah, he just doesn't want another small anthropomorphic animal to tell him that he has to go to sleep

"Mayor! It's been a long day...don't you think you should rest?"

Morgana was seen sulking in Onett the rest of the day.

 

[EarlTamm]

Man, I just love it when a new franchises joins and there is so much new crossover art. It's one of favorite traits of the Smash fandom.

they're coat buddies pic.twitter.com/MfraNQxGwb

— nyasty majesty (@heirror) December 11, 2018

It does make me wonder what the future of the Persona series on Nintendo consoles is going to be like. I know that they made that Shin Megami FE game back on the Wii U, but do you think they might try it again with a bit more influence from the Persona side of things?

 

[Robertman2]

Man, I just love it when a new franchises joins and there is so much new crossover art. It's one of favorite traits of the Smash fandom.

they're coat buddies pic.twitter.com/MfraNQxGwb

— nyasty majesty (@heirror) December 11, 2018

It does make me wonder what the future of the Persona series on Nintendo consoles is going to be like. I know that they made that Shin Megami FE game back on the Wii U, but do you think they might try it again with a bit more influence from the Persona side of things?

Future Persona games, starting with a P5 rerelease, will probably get a Switch version

 

[StormC]

I don't expect much to change, honestly. The only thing that changed for MGS between Brawl and now is a 3DS port of MGS3. Third party inclusions in Smash rarely affect the series' actual presence on Nintendo going forward (with maybe Bayonetta being the exception).

 

[EarlTamm]

I don't expect much to change, honestly. The only thing that changed for MGS between Brawl and now is a 3DS port of MGS3. Third party inclusions in Smash rarely affect the series' actual presence on Nintendo going forward (with maybe Bayonetta being the exception).

But MGS had it's downfall afterward, so maybe it's not the best judge of things. Sega is pretty chummy with Nintendo, and so is Sonic and Bayo. Sonic games became exclusive to Nintendo consoles for a long while after Brawl and Bayonetta is practically a Nintendo property now. And there was the previously mentioned Shin Megami FE and the 3DS exclusive PQ series. I think there is potential for Nintendo related stuff to happen with Persona in the future.

 

[amageish]

Man, I just love it when a new franchises joins and there is so much new crossover art. It's one of favorite traits of the Smash fandom.

they're coat buddies pic.twitter.com/MfraNQxGwb

— nyasty majesty (@heirror) December 11, 2018

It does make me wonder what the future of the Persona series on Nintendo consoles is going to be like. I know that they made that Shin Megami FE game back on the Wii U, but do you think they might try it again with a bit more influence from the Persona side of things?

Okay, my maximum pipedream: I want the Nintendo versions of Persona and Shin Megami Tensei games to contain licensed Nintendo personae/demons, a la how Fox cameos in Starlink.

Like, have the three scared goddesses from Zelda, or a couple of the sacred dragons from Fire Emblem, or literally all of the Kid Icarus Uprising cast summonable as special persona - redesigned in the abstract art style of MegaTen.

I know that would be such a minor cameo its basically pointless, but the idea of summoning Queen Mab, Shiki-Ouji, Thoth, Narcissus, and Palutena is inherently hilarious to me.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I don't expect much to change, honestly. The only thing that changed for MGS between Brawl and now is a 3DS port of MGS3. Third party inclusions in Smash rarely affect the series' actual presence on Nintendo going forward (with maybe Bayonetta being the exception).

But MGS had it's downfall afterward, so maybe it's not the best judge of things. Sega is pretty chummy with Nintendo, and so is Sonic and Bayo. Sonic games became exclusive to Nintendo consoles for a long while after Brawl and Bayonetta is practically a Nintendo property now. And there was the previously mentioned Shin Megami FE and the 3DS exclusive PQ series. I think there is potential for Nintendo related stuff to happen with Persona in the future.

Regardless of anything, this game is already a more accurate FE/Persona crossover than Mirage Sessions.

 

[GolisoPower]

Regardless of anything, this game is already a more accurate FE/Persona crossover than Mirage Sessions.

Personally, when I look at it I get a Kingdom Hearts vibe. People were wary of a Disney/Final Fantasy crossover, and now it’s one of the most loved games in the industry. So I think of this as Atlus’ Kingdom Hearts.

 

[Flyboy]

Okay, my maximum pipedream: I want the Nintendo versions of Persona and Shin Megami Tensei games to contain licensed Nintendo personae/demons, a la how Fox cameos in Starlink.

Like, have the three scared goddesses from Zelda, or a couple of the sacred dragons from Fire Emblem, or literally all of the Kid Icarus Uprising cast summonable as special persona - redesigned in the abstract art style of MegaTen.

I know that would be such a minor cameo its basically pointless, but the idea of summoning Queen Mab, Shiki-Ouji, Thoth, Narcissus, and Palutena is inherently hilarious to me.

Absolutely love this idea. I was thinking about it myself the other day. Let me summon Rosalina but as a cosmic entity. Personas are created from human cognition and Morgan's form in Mementos is a reference to cognition formed from media! There is no reason Mario isn't a Persona!

 

[StormC]

But MGS had it's downfall afterward, so maybe it's not the best judge of things. Sega is pretty chummy with Nintendo, and so is Sonic and Bayo. Sonic games became exclusive to Nintendo consoles for a long while after Brawl and Bayonetta is practically a Nintendo property now. And there was the previously mentioned Shin Megami FE and the 3DS exclusive PQ series. I think there is potential for Nintendo related stuff to happen with Persona in the future.

Sonic had a game release on non-Nintendo consoles as soon as two years after Brawl.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_&_Sega_All-Stars_Racing

Sonic exclusives have come and go on Nintendo consoles since Sega went third party, it has nothing to do with him being in Brawl.

 

[EarlTamm]

Okay, my maximum pipedream: I want the Nintendo versions of Persona and Shin Megami Tensei games to contain licensed Nintendo personae/demons, a la how Fox cameos in Starlink.

Like, have the three scared goddesses from Zelda, or a couple of the sacred dragons from Fire Emblem, or literally all of the Kid Icarus Uprising cast summonable as special persona - redesigned in the abstract art style of MegaTen.

I know that would be such a minor cameo its basically pointless, but the idea of summoning Queen Mab, Shiki-Ouji, Thoth, Narcissus, and Palutena is inherently hilarious to me.

I found a bunch of fan art exploring something similar to this. Fair warning, there is a lot, and they are big.

Spoiler

And here is just a cute art piece they also made.

Link to DeviantArt:
https://www.deviantart.com/guilhermerm/