Hidden Gameplay Tweak in Hidden Footage? (First Post Slightly Refined)

[Dylan_Tnga]

I can't believe you take one technique so seriously that you would automatically dismiss Brawl like that. Hell, nothing about the WD has even been confirmed; you could very much just be letting your obsession with the WD (and the oh so terrible thought that it might not be in Brawl) cloud your judgement. If anything, that attitude is an insult to the advancement of Smash Brothers.

1. Are you actually Arash? If so I won't argue with you and bow to your skills.

IF you're not though (I doubt you are anyway) :

Melee is the perfection of smash brothers, changing anything other than characters / movesets /tractions/weights/levels

RISKS (im not saying for certain) completly imbalancing and destroying the competitive aspect of the game. I'm not saying SSBB won't be fun. But **** fun, ok? I dont give a **** about fun when it comes to Super smash brothers, Im QUITE serious, actually. ''fun'' for me is actual competition, not guffawing like a dolt at all the kewl new m0vez and characters.

Im hoping beyond hope that there will be a pro scene for Brawl that is as good as the one we currently have for melee. Taking wavedashing out of Brawl, or nerfing it in anyway WILL destroy any chance brawl has at being as successful as a competitive game as melee.

Look at classic, it was great fun, but the tournament scene wasn't near as big as melee. Why? It was too slow, 0-death comboes were garunteed after one forward throw from falcon, one shffled fair from pikachu, or any hit from kirbys dair, among other things. It was too easy to become pro at to the point where if you hit your opponent he COULD NOT escape being comboed past 100% or even to death.

That's it. There's no point arguing this as it's entirely subjective and personal opinion. I'm speaking from a DEEP passion and respect for SSBM that I'm sure most of you would understand.

And to those that are so against WDing they don't even do it in melee, I think they're the ones that deserve pity. not enthusiasts like myself who do quite well in smash gatherings and tournaments. News flash, you guys aren't Aniki and you won't beat top calibur smashers without the WD in your game, sorry

And if you think something like this will ruin Smash, you are incredibly paranoid of change, and I pity you.

Spare me your pity, you use Kirby. That's sad enough for a candlelight vigil.

 

[Rash]

What's wrong with using Kirby? Just because he's low tier doesn't mean no one should use him. Hell, I'd like to see someone step up and actually kick arse with Kirby against the likes of good Marth, Fox, and Shiek players.

Seeing a nerfed character like Kirby defeating the smash "giants" would be inspirational.

 

[Kujirudo]

You guys go off-topic lol.

This rolling thing is a good thing I think. It's just unrealistic that you stop rolling on the edge, this makes it a little bit more risky to roll around. It would be even more fun if characters could roll different distances. For example, Bowser would roll less far because he is so heavy while Pikachu could roll a long distance.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

You guys go off-topic lol.

This rolling thing is a good thing I think. It's just unrealistic that you stop rolling on the edge, this makes it a little bit more risky to roll around.

In melee it has always been risky to roll around, and rolling across the stage has always been a sign of a weaker player. Rolling in a predictable manner can get you easily grabbed, or worse, kneed in the face by captain falcon

I see what you're saying though, it might be a good tweak to rolling. I find rolling bland and boring in melee and rarely do it unless I'm at the edge and want to get to the other side of someone, to move around and dodge attacks I either wavedash or spotdodge usually. So maybe if they spice it up a little in brawl it could be intresting.

I'm just hoping that wavedashing will still be in the game, and that rolling won't be the new wavedashing, because that would suck heavily

 

[Diddy Kong]

Dylan I've read through many of your posts, and now I'll finally respond to them.

Melee is the perfection of smash brothers, changing anything other than characters / movesets /tractions/weights/levels

RISKS (im not saying for certain) completly imbalancing and destroying the competitive aspect of the game. I'm not saying SSBB won't be fun. But **** fun, ok? I dont give a **** about fun when it comes to Super smash brothers, Im QUITE serious, actually. ''fun'' for me is actual competition, not guffawing like a dolt at all the kewl new m0vez and characters.

Im hoping beyond hope that there will be a pro scene for Brawl that is as good as the one we currently have for melee. Taking wavedashing out of Brawl, or nerfing it in anyway WILL destroy any chance brawl has at being as successful as a competitive game as melee.

So basically what your saying is that Melee is perfect the way it is, and Brawl will suck because it won't have Waveshining Foxes, Glitch Grabbing ******'s, Dress-dancing princesses and hunny hopping birds?

Brawl can easly be a well developed tournament game without any likes of wavedashing, waveshining and those sort of things. Sure they are very intressting and used alot by the current Pro players but you forget what SSB is really all about, and always WILL be about...

Tactics and mindgames.

Sure you can take 100+ hours perfecting your technical skills, but tactics and mindgames are just as important, if not even more... Since they are your trademarks in the battle, you can't learn them you must find them out yourself. That is the case in Melee and will also be the case in Brawl.

The technical stuff as SHL and Waveshining are nice, yes... But Brawl can live without them. Why? Because it will likely have other hidden gameplay tweaks in them. You are defending the current tweaks, because your good with them, and apperanlty refuse to learn the newer ones...

And I wouldn't call Melee perfect. The tournament play is really unbalanced, character wise. I would've loved to be able to use my Donkey Kong in high tournament play, but no I should use Peach instead cause she's higher tier and will likely increase my changes for victory. Now sure there's also Low Tier tournaments but wouldn't it be better if you could use MORE characters competively (sp?) ? It would surely improve the metagame of SSB.

In melee it has always been risky to roll around, and rolling across the stage has always been a sign of a weaker player. Rolling in a predictable manner can get you easily grabbed, or worse, kneed in the face by captain falcon

I see what you're saying though, it might be a good tweak to rolling. I find rolling bland and boring in melee and rarely do it unless I'm at the edge and want to get to the other side of someone, to move around and dodge attacks I either wavedash or spotdodge usually. So maybe if they spice it up a little in brawl it could be intresting.

I'm just hoping that wavedashing will still be in the game, and that rolling won't be the new wavedashing, because that would suck heavily

Why would rolling be also bad in Brawl? Yes it wasn't excatly the best thing to do in Melee, but Brawl is diffrent. You saw the crawling? Perhaps that will give us ALOT of new tweaks... What about Wave Crawling for example?? Spotdodging also will be back, since why else did they added it in Melee and mentoined in the intruction manual? Same goes for Air Dodging btw.

Also I'd like to mentoin that characters will change with Brawl, and some of them are gonna be removed. That is officially stated by the head director Sakurai. Maybe that means the end of Falcon's Knee, Peach's Downsmash, Fox's Shine... Heck you can also say goodbye to Falco and Ganon's current moveset, Jiggly's WoP, and even to whole characters as Sheik and Dr.Mario.

But who said Brawl won't have any of these killer moves? We've seen in the trailers, that ATLEAST Short Hopping is back and since L Canceling wasn't removed in Melee, why would it in Brawl? As for the moves and characters, Brawl will have more characters so most likely more tactics, mindgames and Tiers we as a comunity must work on... Your a profesional Melee player, so why waste your talents in Brawl?

 

[Caleb Wolfbrand]

Diddy Kong pretty much hit the nail on the head for me there. although in the last paragraph "brawl will have more characters" well... we hope there will be, at least. I know I do.

these tweaks are interesting. I at first thought Pikachu was landing and wd'd off the stage but you're right it is rolling. it's weird... and Zamus' movement in the air is kinda strange to me, too.

 

[rm88]

Dylan_Tnga, I've read some of your views about Melee/Brawl, and even if I'm not a "pro" player like you, I understand your point. In Mario Kart DS (a game in which I think I'm good) there's a "technique" called Snaking. If you don't snake, you lose. I happen to be a good snaker, but I'll not be mad if they remove Snaking in the next Mario Kart, because I'm aware that not anyone can Snake. Less rivals = Less fun.

That's beyond the point though, I don't specially agree with your "playing as Kirby = failure" point of view. The fact that some characters are not even considered competitive, reflects the fact that Smash needs to be more balanced. I'm a Peach user, her wavedash is really bad... should I stop using Peach? I'll not, because I think the best Peach player should be in the same level as the best Sheik/Fox/Falco player (and that's obviously not the case).

Wouldn't Brawl be more fun with more challenging players? I think yes, but I absolutely understand and respect your opinion. Hopefully I'll be able to play against you via Wi-Fi, so you can destroy my Peach >_<

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Dylan_Tnga, I've read some of your views about Melee/Brawl, and even if I'm not a "pro" player like you, I understand your point. In Mario Kart DS (a game in which I think I'm good) there's a "technique" called Snaking. If you don't snake, you lose. I happen to be a good snaker, but I'll not be mad if they remove Snaking in the next Mario Kart, because I'm aware that not anyone can Snake. Less rivals = Less fun.

That's beyond the point though, I don't specially agree with your "playing as Kirby = failure" point of view. The fact that some characters are not even considered competitive, reflects the fact that Smash needs to be more balanced. I'm a Peach user, her wavedash is really bad... should I stop using Peach? I'll not, because I think the best Peach player should be in the same level as the best Sheik/Fox/Falco player (and that's obviously not the case).

Wouldn't Brawl be more fun with more challenging players? I think yes, but I absolutely understand and respect your opinion. Hopefully I'll be able to play against you via Wi-Fi, so you can destroy my Peach >_<

Peach is a **** good character.

Look there may be a few skilled Kirby players in melee but hes just not very good at the whole winning thing, read any guide on him it always has advice like ''don't expect to win'' He was GODLY in classic, and they nerfed him much like they did pikachu but they made him pretty bad.

I dont want to diss up any character though, so yeah I shouldn't rag on kirby, In a skilled players hands he might even win but if you're thinking of picking him up I'd suggest you dont, there are low tier characters that you can win with, but kirby would be a tough battle to compete with.

 

[dj asakura]

Dylan, accept change. I've read enough of your posts to see your view on all that is melee and its "perfection of smash". There were people that said the same when melee first came out but look at it now. Things change and people change, should Brawl remove wavedashing, people will find something else equally as useful. You have to understand that their will still be something to raise the level in Brawl, I'm almost sure of that.
Don't think I'm biased against all the advanced tactics. I main the Ice Climbers and I want them, their wavesmashing and their chaingrabbing back in Brawl, but if not, I'll find some other way to manipulate the game and my opponenets and win with them (assuming they make it back).
New game means new start. Don't give up on it because it isn't melee. It's not supposed to be, that's the whol point of making the sequal.

But on topic. I think they may have just changed the roll physics so that you can roll of ledges. It's very possible and likely in my opinion. Seems to be much faster and non-shield involved too.

 

[FreakoFreako]

I just hope they give Kirby a boost. For me, I use chars I like/like how they play rather than based on how high on the tier list they are. Although I was lucky that Kirby owned in SSB64. XD I never played Melee, but I'm sure I would have used Kirby anyway much like using Ganju in BDS2... Which I do and get pwn'd.

I'm looking forward to Brawl. But, I'm gonna see the response it gets/online before choosing Wii over PS3.

 

[darktiamat47]

Well I think its an improvement. Making these kinds of changes will only better the smash community because it accomplishes alot. It in my opinion does the following:

1. Gives the pros in SSBM not so much of an edge considering they've masterd Melee
2. Gives those who havent played melee or just started, a chance to get on even ground with old pro smashers.
3. Completely changes battle strategies and more options during fighting gameplay.

all in all Brawl shouldnt be exactly like Melee or the gap between pros and rooks would never become even. I say we support almost (and I do mean ALMOST considering we dont know if they may make the small possibility of a "bad change") all changes to come in brawl.

 

[Klowne]

Okay, lets assume that this roll thing is in fact an extremely easy wavedash. So what? Just knowing advanced techs doesn't instantly qualify you as a pro smasher. Even if they made ALL the advanced techs totally simple and noobish, there would still be a competitive community that would win by more than just pure tech skill.

What i'm trying to say is that the competitive community would not be changed in any way even if all of the advanced techs were simplified, because those things are natural to them anyway. The only difference would be that the slow-fingered people with no SSBM tech skill would have a chance at entering the SSBB competitive community. This way, as long as there are still elements of skill OTHER than pure tech, the competitive community of SSBB will only GROW.

However, i'm not trying to say that i'm one for removing the 'tech skill' element from Brawl. There are obviously advantages to having more areas of skill to distinguish players. My point was just that the game won't cease to be competitive just because you remove the element of tech.

Of course, the situation isn't that extreme at all. Like people in this thread have said, wavedashing isn't really that big of a deal anyway, and even if it was removed by itself, there will still probably be a huge bundle of tech skills to learn to improve your game and distance yourself from 'noobs'.

 

[MoP]

That's a nice find. It might be easier to hit you off while your edge-hogging as well.

 

[Zodiac]

In melee we could waveland to avoid attacksm it seems form te meta knight comment, that we can now roll from the air, this would indeed replace wavelanding in many ways.

 

[Shapechanger]

Maybe I'm just the odd one out, but am I the only one who cares about wave landing? In my playstyle I just so happen to wave land at just about every oppurtunity to get me a little close to where I need to be, and to drop most of the lag. If they replaced wavedashing with rolls, I'd get used to it eventually, but I would be pretty dissapointed if I couldn't wave land.

 

[DSB]

With such a huge effort put forth into this game I guarantee that it will probably be a beefed up version of the 64 game. It will still be fun but it'll be the end for heavy end competition on the scale of Halo.

SSB64 is very fun and competitive online. The only thing bad about it is the lack of defensive options.

 

[HiddenTiger]

Personally, I'm quite releaved that the techs and physics are being reworked. You wanna know why? Because this proves, beyond a shaddow of a doubt, that they are not making Super Smash Bros. Melee again. I don't know about all of you whining over Wavedashing and whatever, but I'd prefer to have a new game. If Brawl turned out to play exactly like Melee did, I'd just keep playing Melee and save myself the cash.

 

[Tyson651]

its the wavedashing and advanced techniques that keeps us playing.

if ssbm didnt have any of these, its safe to say it wouldnt be as popular as it is now.

and people love how the gameplay is for ssbm, but its boring with the same characters, and the same tiers etc. so thats why people hope with the same gameplay engine (a few changes is great) and great new and refreshing start, its like being rejuvenated all over again with the same great type of game we all love to play with new characters, maps, etc.

 

[FalseFalco]

its the wavedashing and advanced techniques that keeps us playing.

if ssbm didnt have any of these, its safe to say it wouldnt be as popular as it is now.

and people love how the gameplay is for ssbm, but its boring with the same characters, and the same tiers etc. so thats why people hope with the same gameplay engine (a few changes is great) and great new and refreshing start, its like being rejuvenated all over again with the same great type of game we all love to play with new characters, maps, etc.

...except slower

 

[HiddenTiger]

if ssbm didnt have any of these, its safe to say it wouldnt be as popular as it is now.

I would argue that it's not safe to say that at all. I'm willing to bet money that for every single Smash player who practices all the advanced techniques and plays the game solely to get better at it, there's at least three more who don't even know what wavedashing is and still love the game.

All I'm trying to say is this: I want a different game. I don't want to play Super Smash Bros. Melee 1.5. I want to play Super Smash Bros Brawl. The gameplay itself looks like it's remaining intact, for the most part. The physics are just being reworked to create a new game experience. Which is a good thing.

Let me ask you all this: How many of you hate Melee or refuse to play it at all because it wass too different from Super Smash Bros. 64? I'm willing to bet none. You'll be fine. If wavedashing is taken out, you'll find new advanced techniques. Just stop worrying so much about what's going to happen to Melee, and start looking forward to Brawl.

 

[Tyson651]

I would argue that it's not safe to say that at all. I'm willing to bet money that for every single Smash player who practices all the advanced techniques and plays the game solely to get better at it, there's at least three more who don't even know what wavedashing is and still love the game.

All I'm trying to say is this: I want a different game. I don't want to play Super Smash Bros. Melee 1.5. I want to play Super Smash Bros Brawl. The gameplay itself looks like it's remaining intact, for the most part. The physics are just being reworked to create a new game experience. Which is a good thing.

Let me ask you all this: How many of you hate Melee or refuse to play it at all because it wass too different from Super Smash Bros. 64? I'm willing to bet none. You'll be fine. If wavedashing is taken out, you'll find new advanced techniques. Just stop worrying so much about what's going to happen to Melee, and start looking forward to Brawl.

ok, so for every 1 person who only plays the game soley to get better at it, and there was no such thing as advanced techniques, he would get bored quickly, and most likely due to the boring-ness, quit? right?

well, just using ur example, theres 3 other people who love the game, without adv techs, so they are still playing and etc.

well, that would make 1/4 people quit, due to the lack of competition, and getting bored of it.

think about it too? if there was no adv techs, there would be no such thing as this site, and no such enthusiasm to create tournaments for extreme competitive play. im sure without these, ssbm wouldnt be as popular, and most likely wont have the competitive scene as it does now.

and if u dont want ssbm v1.5, then dont play smash at all, cause all the smash series will be the same, one way or another. even without wavedashing in ssbb, fighting/physics engines will be the same, with probably a little added features. and all it is, is that its being added new things and characters ontop of ssbm pretty much.

gameplay may be different however, but all in all, it will be anyway since we have new characters, so taking out wavedashing and other adv techs have only a portion of the effect of change onto ssbb.

for example, if there was no wavedashing, im sure people will just walk away when the opponent is approaching and then fsmash. or just a retreating aerial, etc.

 

[Stryks]

its the wavedashing and advanced techniques that keeps us playing.

if ssbm didnt have any of these, its safe to say it wouldnt be as popular as it is now.

and people love how the gameplay is for ssbm, but its boring with the same characters, and the same tiers etc. so thats why people hope with the same gameplay engine (a few changes is great) and great new and refreshing start, its like being rejuvenated all over again with the same great type of game we all love to play with new characters, maps, etc.

Wrong, its are urge to get betetr at the game that keeps us playing, I keep playing cause I wanna get better at this, I dont know how good I am, but I always give saber a hard time, and we usualyl tie, and the guy is pretyt good with falco, if I were to fight myself from one year ago, the me in the present day would win, cause I still practice, and knowing I can get better at this popular game is what keeps me playing...

 

[Classic-Black]

and if u dont want ssbm v1.5, then dont play smash at all, cause all the smash series will be the same, one way or another. even without wavedashing in ssbb, fighting/physics engines will be the same, with probably a little added features. and all it is, is that its being added new things and characters ontop of ssbm pretty much.

.

If your looking for Melee 1.5, your going to be severely disappointed. Gameplay will be similar, but it will not end up being Melee 1.5 or 2.0 or whatever, simply because it's the next title in the franchise. Most franchises (with the exception of sports games like Madden) will change their formula to keep from getting repetative, sometimes subtlely (Ala Street Fighter), others not so much (Soul Edge/Caliber) and Smash is no different. SSBM wasn't SSB 1.5, and Brawl won't be SSBM 1.5, so i'm not quite sure where your pulling that from.Sakurai went on record as saying that if he didn't agree to make Brawl, that it would've been Melee 2.0. Much of the formula will stay similar yes, but Brawl will evolve further than just being a port of Melee w/ a few new characters. While I'm pretty sure most of the advanced techs (including WDing) will return in Brawl, that doesn't mean their implementation will be the same as they were in Melee. Sakurai is going for more than simple cosmetic changes, so if your expecting SSBM Wii, then your in for a shock.

The following post was not meant to be flammatory in any way shape or form. If you took it as such, that's your problem

 

[DeeDoubleU]

Am I the only one here to find Dylan's posts to be pure grade A dicktrash?

Wavedashing's uses being cut down due to them being available in other moves doesn't remove an advanced tactic from the game. All it does is it makes the advanced tactics more accessible to people who haven't trained themselves in a hand movement. I emphasize hand movement because it isn't a skill, its just a trained reaction, a mental macro if you will. The skill isn't in performing some silly little quick gesture with your hands. The skill is in what you do with the added mobility.

 

[Papapaint]

I just have one thing to say.

If the only reason you play smash is because there are advanced techniques, then you're playing the wrong game. There are plenty more fighting games with far more advanced techniques. You're fighting people with goofy nintendo characters. Yes, the competition is fun. But if you're trying to be a hardcore gamer, play a game made to be hardcore. Sakurai is not going to make the game to please competitive players, he's going to make it more fun. If that takes the fun out of it for you, go have fun masturbating on your ps2 controller as you play MVC2.

 

[Doc_Holiday]

I just have one thing to say.

If the only reason you play smash is because there are advanced techniques, then you're playing the wrong game. There are plenty more fighting games with far more advanced techniques. You're fighting people with goofy nintendo characters. Yes, the competition is fun. But if you're trying to be a hardcore gamer, play a game made to be hardcore. Sakurai is not going to make the game to please competitive players, he's going to make it more fun. If that takes the fun out of it for you, go have fun masturbating on your ps2 controller as you play MVC2.

That's definitely flaming. Anyway, think about it this way, there is no possible way for them to take out wavedashing unless they take out airdodging, why would they take out airdodging? Just because there is a faster roll does not mean that wavedashing will be taken out of the game, I alos got to thinking about the new roll though. Rolling gives you invincibility right? Well, the new roll is so fast and it makes you invincible, that makes it a potentially unstoppable technique that anyone can do without fast fingers at all. N00bs will have the best technique available for them right there, and since it is so fast, it can probably make slow characters faster then when they run. You now have an invincible and fast character. Did anyone else think about this?

 

[DeeDoubleU]

Oh, I can think of plenty of ways for them to take out wave dashing and leave wave dashing in tact.

I mean, they could simply slow you down and play an animation when you impact with the ground while in the air dodge state.

But really, does it matter that a person who is new to the game can roll? It isn't like rolling has no disadvantages that you can exploit.

And whats with the fascination for fast fingers? Is that how we gauge skill now? By who has the fastest finger? I mean really, last I checked, skill was the result of experimentation and tactics, not the result of being able to repetitively perform a motion on a controller.

 

[Chepe]

Wow DeeDoubleU, you say exactly what I think, its kinda scary! I have had a problem with skill being heavily based on how fast you can move your fingers, and not all of us want to go lightspeed all over our controllers...

Yeah, people dont see something. Even if the new roll is an easier version of the wavedash, it doesnt mean newbs can abuse it and become invincible. It would just become a simple move like the rolling in Melee, which would likely be punishable with other advanced techs that will undoubtedly be found in Brawl, including mindgames. Newbs who spam this new roll would likely be as bad as a newb who spams rolling in Melee...

People seem to think only Melee's versions of things allow the game to be competitive... -_-

 

[Tyson651]

ive always been a fan of smash, and always liked it. i dont only play it for the advanced techniques, but i also play it since i love the style of the gameplay, it fits perfectly into what i see in my ideal "gaming wants".

but theres only so good u can get if there wasnt any advanced techniques, WHICH LEADS to boredom. due to easy quick mastery of the game.

and no, im not only looking towards ssbm v1.5, im just saying OTHER people are, and u have to keep in mind about that.

EDIT:

Wrong, its are urge to get betetr at the game that keeps us playing, I keep playing cause I wanna get better at this, I dont know how good I am, but I always give saber a hard time, and we usualyl tie, and the guy is pretyt good with falco, if I were to fight myself from one year ago, the me in the present day would win, cause I still practice, and knowing I can get better at this popular game is what keeps me playing...

well it wouldnt be as competitive if any at all, if there wasnt any advanced techniques. pretty much all u could do is roll, walk away, jump away, there would be no shffl'ing, no dash dancing, try and look at it like that prospective.

this goes to the same reply as the guy under me

 

[DeeDoubleU]

In this case though, it isn't about advanced techniques. You can still get just as good without them if you still have all of the mobility offered by them.

Also, getting old won't be a problem if this game is online.

 

[Chepe]

Why wouldnt there be advanced techs? I can only see wavedashing possibly affected. Others, like L-canceling, have been in both games and will likely remain. Teching, Crouch Canceling, SHFFLing, side step, and others are either part of the game itself or will remain because of other things that are still there. Mindgames will still be there.

Really, there is no reason to believe it wont be competitve even if some techs are removed. Others would be found, and the speed issue: the game is not being played by "pros" in the trailers. Melee is a lot slower when played casually, and this will likely still apply in Brawl...

 

[Doggalina]

blah blah blah

Melee is the perfection of smash brothers, changing anything other than characters / movesets /tractions/weights/levels

blah blah blah with mild ignorance

Spare me your pity, you use Kirby. That's sad enough for a candlelight vigil.

If Melee's so perfect, don't buy Brawl. Continue playing Melee if you have a huge problem with the changes that are going to be in Brawl.

Oh and your "lol, you don't use hi tire; datz stoopid" comment made me chuckle.

 

[Tyson651]

im not talking about the possibility of which advanced techniques that might be removed buddy.

maybe pay some attention, im talking about advanced techniques, not just wavedashing. advanced techniques IN GENERAL.

 

[Chepe]

I did pay attention. Again, why WOULDNT there be any advanced techniques? -_-

 

[DeeDoubleU]

Advanced techniques in general aren't even an issue. We'll still have L-canceling and we'll still have pretty much everything else that is programmed deliberately into the game. Unless you are specifically referring to buggy crap like Fox using 15 shines in the time frame of one second, then there is not going to be a problem here.

 

[Tyson651]

cause some other guy was arguing about advanced techniques having no effect on the popularity or the "fun-ness" of ssbm, and im saying it does by comparing with no advanced techniques and with. and then u guys start arguing about having no advanced techniques.

i dont kno where u guys are trying to get at, but in the end u guys just make everyone involved sound like a ******* arguing about all this pointless crap.

 

[Problem2]

from what I can tell, the rolls aren't that much faster, even if they are at all. Seriously, you can easily roll faster by holding the C-stick a direction and then tapping shield. Your shield never actually pops up and you go straight into the roll and straight out of it. (go and try that right now).

Also, that supposed roll Metaknight does against Kirby could possibly BE a wavedash. It might just lack the smoke effect and may have some actual character animation to it now.

 

[KirbySSB]

The only person who knows what they are talking about in this thread is Diddy Kong.

 

[Devastlian]

Also, that supposed roll Metaknight does against Kirby could possibly BE a wavedash. It might just lack the smoke effect and may have some actual character animation to it now.

Yeah but Meta Knight (and Pit against Wario) moves around (as in he slightly comes up along the Z axis) Kirby and comes off the ground which is both indicative of a roll and not a wavedash.

Also..."possibly" would've been the right word to stress.

 

[heety9]

Yes, great job! I would have never found that!