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"Hey! Watch out!" Link Video & Critique Thread

Anonano

is the mano, ya know?
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
1,769
Location
Utah
So, a couple of things to watch out for are avoiding SH/FH boomerang approaches. It's something that I do sometimes too, but if you are traveling towards an opponent and throwing the boomerang at midrange you leave yourself pretty wide open. Just noticed that at the beginning of the matches.
@1:26:45 You tried to predict his DI with usmash. Not too bad but sometimes its better to stay back and space your opponent rather than try to predict them, especially since Link has a lot of lag if he misses. Plus, he was right above you anyways so utilt in place would've been a better, less risky option.
1:28:12 Good option choice right there. Leaving Mario to defend you near the edge would've been incredibly risky (since he has such an advantage edgeguarding link) and you knew your spacing and that you'd have time to bair and grab the ledge.
1:28:30 Sick bomb>bomb>dair combo :) Good option on throwing the bomb up. That's a great set-up tool that Wario's bike and ZSS armor pieces are good for as well. Nice choice.
LOL he switched to MK after you wrecked him.
Alright, start of the 2nd match you needed to play more defensively. You had some good stuff, like the DJ bomb drops to keep him away or the dair read on his tornado (I think it was his tornado :s) but just waiting for a good option to come up would've been better. Avoid trying to predict with that double fsmash because that left you so open. MK can punish really well off of that. Lucky you weren't at a higher percent.
1:30:40 LOL balloon cancel :3
1:30:50 Nice autocancel on the dair again. I hope this technical stuff is intentional because it makes you look really good.
1:31:15 Again, nice read. Being patient and waiting for those hard punishes is what Link is all about at high percents.
1:30:30 I feel like the MK should've been more aware of your option to recover to the platform, but okay.
1:31:55 Don't spam dair when opponents are at low percents. :(
:32:00 Too aggressive! Should've been willing to stay on that platform and camp a bit until you could get grounded on the main stage again. And then you opened up that stock too aggressively. Again, avoid the jumping boomerang approaches, make sure you're moving away and not towards. :32:20 That dair spam :(
1:33:10 Ooooh, you should've just waited for your dair to autocancel. Might've gotten grabbed out of it, but that would've been better than a dsmash to the face. LOL at the edgeguarding there. Sweet job being patient and holding on to that bomb to save you.
1:36:20 Again, that early dair spam. He wouldn't even fly far enough to NOT be able to punish you even if you did land that dair. Save the dair for mid and high percents.
1:37:00 Gooood call on not approaching during that phase of PS1. Sick bomb drop skill there 0.o
1:37:22 Careful about approaching there. At all -_-
1:39:00 Practice momentum cancelling. There was an earlier match where you just barely didn't die off the top, and this time it cost you.
:39:15 Great spam game. You did so well UNTIL YOU SH BOOMERANGED TOWARD HIM. With the backwards throw too lol :p
:40:40 Good option with those bomb uthrows. Great way to juggle him to death.

Tl;dr
Good technical skill. I liked the bomb drops on platforms and you've got a pretty technical Link. I think that you are pretty patient with your bomb game and in those matches you started out patient in your dair game but it got sloppier and sloppier as the set progressed. Try not to FF those dairs so you can autocancel them on landing. Honestly, who really wants to approach you while you've got that freaking sword sticking out below you?
 

Irisz

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Okokok thank you, first time I've been critiqued on my Link. Awesome to hear from another person <3

Yea, I admit I relied on Dair when he switched over to MK (>.>). Knowing Meta, he likes to nado and whatnot under me so I'm used to it Q.Q
The boomerang? I just do it out of habit, idk why. I'll try to stop using it when I'm so close though.
Most of the times I'm trying to wavebouce (or whatever it is) towards them, reversing my momentum AWAY from them.

I also feel that I played pretty well during me VS that Mario. When I see MK, I sh*t my pants and get worried. I don't have enough MK experience :/

But anyways, THANK YOU FOR THE FEEDBACK <3 Much appreciated ^-^
 

Anonano

is the mano, ya know?
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
1,769
Location
Utah
Yea, I admit I relied on Dair when he switched over to MK (>.>).
...
When I see MK, I sh*t my pants and get worried. I don't have enough MK experience :/
Just a thought for you :) :

Read this quote from M2K about who he thinks the best Falco is on http://clashtournaments.com/?page_id=423
Falco – DEHF/Masha tie then huge gap (dehf might be slightly better on his good day but he relies too much on reads and always assumes you will do the smart option, so he can beat good players but he’ll struggle sometimes with less good players).


What I’m trying to take from this quote for you is: Don’t overestimate your opponent’s capabilities! That’ll put you in a losing (fearful) mindset (If you aren't DEHF anyways, and I don't think you are DEHF, so pay attention). MK has advantages in this MU, but Link has a lot of options, too.
A good way to get a realistic mindset about what MK can do--especially since you mention you don't have a lot of MK experience--is to practice using him yourself. Get in some friendlies if necessary (make sure to take a shower afterwards to wash the filthy feeling away) so that you can see what his realistic options and decisions are, and then you’ll have a much better knowledge about what you can and can’t do against an MK main. It won’t be easy, but it will certainly make your mindset calm and confident as opposed to having a fearful and therefore panicky one. Honestly I think keeping a good disposition is about one of the most powerful tools that a player can have.

As the quote goes, “know your enemy.”
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,902
Location
Colorado
The Link Video Archive and Critique Thread!
Current videos will be sorted below by player, opponent, type (tourney/friendlies/wifi/etc). This should help clear up things about Link's current metagame!
All of the following videos are no older than 2012. The format is:

Player (Alphabetical order)
(Collapsed)
Character MU
Live videos
Opponent's name Video links
Wifi videos
Opponent's name videos

Dittos


Ano


Offline

Singles

Bowser

DK

Ken Neth
5/18/13 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvBrmKT3TS8#t=04m56s

Fox

Ken Neth
5/18/13 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvBrmKT3TS8#t=02m38s

Marth

Ness

Olimar

Peach

Pit

Jigglypuff

Snake

Sonic

Yoshi

Ben
4/26/13 (Tournament) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGHtFiXOIaA#t=02m08s
4/26/13 (Friendlies) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbtUklq4wIk

Dittos



Doubles



Online

Singles


Doubles

Link dubz versus Da Star http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1_F6KW25Kc
Link dubz versus West's Team http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj8pvJgBW-I
Link dubz versus Slay-BlayZ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3GITzVhlV0





Bomber


KotierWolf



Donkey Kong
Opponent: bsm​
WiFi​
Falco
Opponent: DOOMS​
WiFi​
Opponent: NAVI​
WiFi​
Ganondorf
Opponent: Tree​
WiFi​
Ike
Opponent: bsm​
WiFi​
Kirby
Opponent: Tree​
WiFi​
Marth
Opponent: Shaun​
WiFi​
Peach
Opponent: bsm​
WiFi​
Pikachu
Opponent: bsm​
WiFi​
Samus
Opponent: DOOMS​
WiFi​
Opponent: ?​
WiFi​
Snake
Opponent: NAVI​
WiFi​
Opponent: bsm​
WiFi​
Wario
Opponent: bsm​
WiFi​


Rizen:

Singles vs:

Alphabetic order by character:
2012 and on...

Bowser

Live

Wifi



C Falcon


Diddy Kong


DK


Falco


Fox


Game and Watch


Ganon

Live

Wifi



Ice Climbers


Ike


Jigglypuff


King Dedede


Kirby


Lucario


Lucas

Live

Wifi



Luigi


Mario


Marth


MK


Ness


Olimar


Peach


Pikachu


Pit


Pokemon Trainer


R.O.B.


Samus


Sheik and Shelda


Snake


Sonic


Toon Link


Wario


Wolf


Yoshi


Zelda


Zero Suit Samus


Doubles 2012 and later. Organized by Link player:

Rizen



Scizor
 

Anonano

is the mano, ya know?
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Utah
You should give him control of posts #2 and #3 as well. They have pertinent info. (Or maybe just post #2?)

I'll be recording matches at my tourney this Saturday for the entire tournament, so hopefully I can get a few of my own in :p
 

Scabe

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Canberra, Australia
Cool thanks for the tip Ano.

I kinda screwed things up and got rid of Rizen's post, but if you look hard enough you might see it somewhere on the first page :p
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,902
Location
Colorado
Lol, thanks Scabe :)
______________________
Fast Blade vs me in dittos, wifi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bODx5VI3RUU

Start it helps spacing to SH and move while throwing boomerang but I missed PSing it anyway lol
0:07 with a bomb airdodge>zair tether the ledge then press Z a 2nd time to reel in.
0:17 when an attack hits your shield with lag either shield grab it or OoS upB if the attack has enough lag.
0:19 most jabs can be DIed. Up and out is a good way to DI Link's jab cancels.
0:21 It's important to recover quickly. I was fast but you probably could have landed or grabbed the ledge without tethering it. You moved too far offstage; DI in and act quickly. Link's vulnerable as he tethers.
0:22 it's possible to tech stage spikes with 'L' (shield) but hard on wifi.
0:24 use returning invulnerability to pressure opponents.
0:27 that bomb had no chance of hitting and wasted time.
0:28 practice and you'll adapt faster. You could have stayed onstage.
0:32 tap away from the ledge>Z>Z to quick edgehog. Don't double jump or you lose it. Rarely is it good to hang because Link's vulnerable as he hangs and reeling in until he grabs the actually ledge again.
0:33 Dair has a lot of landing lag. In that case it would have been better to bomb pull from a ledge jump.
0:36 Never roll into the opponent. If they roll themselves follow it with an attack but don't dodge.
0:38 bad, too close spacing for a boomerang. I think boomerang is released frame 26 and Link can act frame 37. Jabs would have landed.
0:40 you're at a low %, launches shouldn't hit Link very far offstage. Immediately DI toward the stage. If you are going to tether the ledge mix in airdodges in case the opponent aggressively tries to gimp. Reel in tethers; Link's vulnerable.
0:50 Dair was a gambit. Nair is generally a faster safer alternative to Dair that landing cancels in these situations.
0:55 good Nair. Follow up faster, dash attack would have hit, frame 7. Link's Fsmash starts frame 13 and hits low.
0:57 shield grab this kind of cooldown lag. Dsmash was too far; it starts fast frame 6 but also has a long cooldown (ends frame 50).
1:01 nice jab cancel grab. Fthrow would have been better because it would have put me offstage. Generally Dthrow's Link's worst throw because it takes a few more frames to recover from but it has some uses. All throws do 7% so throw the opponent offstage or up past 170%ish for KOs.
1:03 notice my Nair spacing is above your Bair so it won. Bair hits more sideways. After the launch you could have landed or FF tethered the ledge safely. These things come with experience.
1:09 nice bomb catch and Utilt. Don't roll away after these. I was in a bad spot you could have exploited with Uair or tracking my fall/landing.
1:14 don't retreat when the opponent's returning from the ledge; try to pressure them or read their return.
1:23 I was impulsive and guessed you'd go low so that upB worked but you drifted too far out and any attack that hit you would leave you offstage with no 2nd jump. It's a very unsafe recovery.
1:27 here I had no jumps left but you rolled away. When you are in a good position to punish, pressure the opponent, don't retreat. Rolling's generally slow and unsafe movement.
1:29 throwing bombs up doesn't help when I don't have to approach. Fine tune the spacing so they don't fall on you.
1:33 good arrow spacing. Cover your landings :)
1:35 when landing buffer the next move. In this case shield would have saved you. (input the next move during landing lag or technically the last 10 lag frames of an action to buffer).
1:37 to momentum cancel with a bomb tap C back to back throw it>C back again immediately to catch the bomb with Bair and DI toward the stage. Work on momentum canceling (launched>Bair+down>move toward the stage) launches right away. If you simply held the bomb it could have possibly exploded and saved you. Don't throw bombs away if they might help you recover.
1:39 notice how fast my quick tether was. There's still a few frames when I'm off the ledge but not many.
1:52 popping balloons refreshes moves but it's the lowest priority. don't pop them if you could be spacing or spamming.
2:02 work on quick tethers.
2:03 Fair would have hit. ledge jump>Dair is very unsafe and shouldn't be done unless you know you'll hit.
2:05 Uair was random. Work on returning down to the stage which can be done with landing canceling aerials like Nair. Uair has landing lag.
2:14 bombs will explode after taking 6 or 7% damage. My arrow had enough charge to detonate it.
2:23 Link's hitbubbles eat weak/med strength range attacks so Fair ate your boomerang. Notice how I land Fair which landing cancels and jab before you can react.
2:25 jab cancel>spotdoge is a gambit I pulled off here. Spotdodge dodges the opponent's attempt to counter jab cancels and leaves them with more end lag from their attack. You Fsmashed, I dodged and Spin attacked the lag. It's a good mix up.
2:26 After launches momentum cancel and DI back. you died a ton when you could have lived this way. Eventually it will become habit.
Zair tethers won't attack if they can grab a ledge so edgehogging got you. Press down during tether animation to cancel the tether and immediately upB (this works only when the tether is going for a ledge, not for Zair's attack). Mix up recoveries; you almost always tried to tether.


General:
Momentum cancel and DI launches. This, or rather lack of, was the biggest reason you died.
Mix up your game. Specifically ledge returns (you like to ledge jump) and recoveries.
Don't shy away from opportunity. If you have the upper-hand and the opponent's in a bad spot seize the opportunity. Only reset the situation to get yourself out of a bad spot.

Keep practicing how to buffer and attack most effectively. You'll improve in leaps and bounds with experience and working out DI etc. :)

'hope that helped :)
 

Anonano

is the mano, ya know?
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Messages
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Doubles matches from a tourney yesterday:

v Ben/Caysyka (Full set)

I kept messing up my fsmash spacing when trying to punish TL for spamming dair. I was seriously 1 or 2 pixels off almost every single time >:o
 

Anonano

is the mano, ya know?
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
1,769
Location
Utah
Alright, some videos for critiquing:

Teams: The first two matches ( I guess you could critique my Wofl if you want :p).

v Ben: Jiggly/Oli/Peach (last stock v Oli in particular)

v Ken Neth: Bowser, Link
v Ken Neth: Ness, Sonic, Snake(his main)

On the other hand, you could always lol at my Pikachu.
The ones that probably could get the best critique are vs Snake, Bowser, and Oli.

Even if you don't feel you're any good at feedback, go ahead and post something! At worst we can get a good discussion going on what we can do to improve all of our Links the most.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,902
Location
Colorado
Alright, some videos for critiquing:

v Ken Neth: Snake(his main)
14:27 unsafe bomb pull and you wasted your 2nd jump. Snake could have DACUSed (DAC) you. The platform made it better but you risked being hit out of the air which he could have done by Bairing sooner.
14:29 Okay bomb tactic but you are wandering too high above the stage. Snake's DAC is a pain so Zair (or Nair if he's close enough because it eats his Usmash) work really well to cover landings.
14:31 good bomb tactic. You wasted time and spacing by pulling another bomb from standing when you could have pressure Snake from the 1st bomb. Standing for the pull would have made you vulnerable if Snake had dodged the bomb too.
14:34 3 bombs in a row from standing is not effective spamming. Move and mix in other projectiles/attacks.
14:37 too close for boomerang, that's Zair spacing. Jab would have been better than Utilt but it was still good.
14:39 the turning slide let him shield. Pivot grab or read for another Utilt would have gotten him.
14:41 Good idea with Fair. Space so he doesn't land behind you by not advancing forward so far.
14:44 you use your 2nd jump too soon. Save it for when you need it. Snake's Fsmash would have killed if he released earlier.
14:47 another too close for boomerang spacing. Use Zair more and be careful of approaching jumps/SHs. Snake controls the space in front of him well.
14:51 good Bair. Use a lot of FF Nairs in these situations because it beats Snake's DAC.
14:53 you used your double jump again. Try to save it. Keep in mind Snake must come down and you don't need to go all the way up. Fair would have spaced better. Good landing Nair>Utilt.
14:55 obviously never follow with UpB in the air. You were so lucky to not get punished by that or tripping, lol. Remember Snake must come down and Link can throw bombs up and Uair, Utilt, etc.
14:59 SH for spam, don't stand in place. The Uair was another time when you overshot by jumping too high. Fair or Utilt or punish the landing.
15:09 Bad Usmash he was in front of you.
15:11 DON'T DOUBLE JUMP! Use Zair a lot more, especially in this MU.
15:13 keep the bomb and use a boomerang instead.
15:16 this is one of the few times Link's ground Spin would be a good choice. It attack walls lag from dodges and landings.
15:18 good DI vs Ftilt.
15:20 SH Bair. You're turning for Nair and it wastes time.
15:26 better spamming but move with SHs and maximize output. Spam faster and move around to help spacing.
15:35 better SH spam and walling out Snake's nades with Brang. Try to throw more out faster. You hesitate too much.
15:40 good read.
15:47 remember you can go for the ledge. FF airdodge>tether can be very good and FF Nair beats Snake's Usmash missiles. ...Throw more stuff out to cover you.
16:02 Snake should have grabbed you. Don't land near opponents and if you have to, land behind them with Nair.
16:07 save Link's 2nd jump, you didn't need to use it then to recover.
16:12 quick tether the ledge to keep Snake from forcing ledge returns with Usmash like that.
16:18-24 move sideways as you SH. You're jumping and spamming in place a lot which is bad for spacing. Remember Snake's Ftilt starts frame 4, 2 frames faster than our jab or Dsmash :( . Snake should win close combat. Save your 2nd jump!
16:30 nice whiplash. I need to use that more, it reaches a good distance above and below the ledge.
16:32 good read for Usmash trapping his landing. Usmash often shield pokes or gets dodges like that.
16:34 by jumping up to Snake you get above him and lose the ground advantage. Link should stay lower than the falling opponent. Go for landing punishes if they're this low.
16:40 you missed a great chance to pressure Snake when he had no jumps and a bad angled upB.
16:45 another double jump. Space to stat near the ground. Use all 3 projectiles to maximize spamming.
16:48 good DI-ing out of Nair and followup Utilt :). Decent Uair spacing too.
16:51 IDK what that Bair was but good pivot grab. Throw Snake backward to control the stage better.
16:59 you lost the Dair gambit but could have been safe guiding it offstage and grabbing the ledge without lag. Snake ledge rolled giving enough time.
17:02 :( this is the kind of SD I make when I'm tired. jump toward the stage. Oh well.
17:10 good bomb down throw but bad followup. It looks like you tried to throw another Brang. Utilt's usually a good followup option at low %s.
17:13 bad Dsmash. Wall with jabs if you're worried about rush attacks.
17:25-31 good bomb up throw pressuring. Dsmash was a bad landing punisher option though.
17:45 work on the best spacing to punish landings. Your pressure was not very efficient.
17:53 you could have ledge grabbed sooner and avoided Usmash rocket.
17:55 DI 'inland' and get bombs out to help.
17:58 protect recoveries with spam. Snake's Fair could have been airdodged 'fairly' easily.
You got impatient after that SD.


General:
SAVE DOUBLE JUMPS AND PLAY NEAR THE GROUND!!!!!
More Zair and arrows. Zair really helps in every MU but especially this one.
Link out camps snake but you have to space while camping by moving SHs and use all 3 projectiles. Spam faster and don't waste time with standing or whatever when you can safely throw more spam out.
Practice tip of attack spacing. You jumped too high and close a lot and landed next to him. Work more Bairs and Zairs into spacing and move more in SHs and less on the ground.
You tried to pressure Snake but with bad spacing. Take advantage of when Snake must recover down. Pressure landings and recoveries more.
Make Snake approach, spam to get him off balance and take advantage of when he's vulnerable. your aggression and spamming were often at bad times.

You seemed nervous, I get that too. Play as safe and passively as possible with fast attacks like jab/Bair/Nair/Zair/Utilt and spamming from a distance until you're in a better spot and/or calm down, I've found. Nothing flashy.

'Hope that helps :)
 

Scabe

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Hey Ano just give me one vid you would me to critique the most and I'll do it.

Also I prefer the way that Huggles organised the thread compared to this version. Just sayin'.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,902
Location
Colorado
I saved Huggles' stuff on post 2. People have a hard time finding Link MUs vs ________ so I tried it that way.
Too many people base Link on seriously outdated games :[

It is less friendly to casuals :/. Maybe I'll rethink it.

At this point in Brawl's playable lifespan almost no new videos are being submitted anyway. IDK what to do; organizing it when nobody looks feels pointless :/

__________________________________________________________
Edit:
Critique the v Ben: Olimar match.
Alright, some videos for critiquing:
/Oli/
3:41 nice crossover. Keep in mind Link can footstool to escape these situations too (bomb or no bomb).
3:49 Oli's vulnerable in the air like this so Uair would have been better. Brang wasn't a bad choice but you have to really exploit Oli when he's in a weak position.
3:51 Fsmash hits low. Use Ftilt to punish landings instead.
3:53 Oli's grab range is a danger zone. Avoid it whenever possible. Zair out-ranges it slightly.
4:01 a pattern I noticed is Oli's giving you a lot of opportunities to shield grab. Take advantage of these.
4:03 Oli is very good at shield grabbing landings like here. If you are going for these, slow fall Dair and it will bounce or FF Nair>jab or spotdodge. FF Dair is too punishable.
4:06 good bomb pull and tricky upB recovery. It worked and surprised me too :)
4:22 Bomb Fsmash or throw the bomb at landings to frame trap and blow them up again. Only be passive with bombs when you can't otherwise hit.
4:24 Dair high launches to survive longer.
4:27 aim to land behind characters with FF Nair so they can't shield grab like that.
4:30 nice survival and bomb action. Uair from under the ledge so it rises into a ledge grab.
4:39 edge hog oli.
4:41 OoS spin attack would have killed him.
4:49 Link can spam faster with arrows and Brang in addition to bombs.
4:51-53 all this was very good pressure on Oli :).
4:55ish good work exploiting Oli's landing habits.
5:07 FF Nair would have beaten Oli's Usmash here and hit him out of it.
5:16 good pressure. Good work further punishing Oli's bad landing with shield grab; he falls for that a lot.
5:29 spaced right you're guaranteed a Dair after bomb footstools like that. Good work still.
5:40 interesting cross over tactic. Be careful Oli and opponents don't retreat and pivot grab these.
5:48 good work. You could have gone for more juggles rather than retreat and brang.
5:53 careful not to land in front of opponents, even with FF Nair. You and the Oli do this a lot this game.
5:59 Uair would have landed. Be aggressive when in positions of power like this.
6:00 hasty grab attempt.
6:03 good job covering recoveries. Be careful not to overshoot the ledge with upB. Tethering it would have reached.
6:06 you might have recovered by dropping under the ledge and UpB-ing to it. The SV platform is hard for Link's low upB to reach :[
6:17 Oli's in the air so pressure his landings. Don't passively camp.
Your game got a lot sloppier around this time. Keep cool and remember spacing>>>everything else.
6:23 that yellow pikmin grab :/ . Yellows have better range.
6:26 nice airdodge>land...Dsmash.
6:29 don't retreat; you could have Uair-ed him.
6:36 don't try to 'get the drop' on Oli and most opponents like that. They have a major advantage if they shield or move out of the way.
6:40 don't roll into opponents, Link's bad rolls leave a lot of cooldown lag.
You started throwing out a lot of attacks while neglecting spacing. Link won't win in pure speed and spacing comes 1st.
6:52 land in front of the opponent and they'll punish it. :/
6:54 interesting strategy but too risky. You lost your 2nd jump over the ledge and Oli could have jabbed or Ftilted there for the win.
6:59 short Ftilt spacing.
7:02 your timing was off; you could have landed a grab on this landing.
7:09 pressure Oli's landings. Utilt out ranges Oli's Dair. Bad time/spacing for the arrow.
7:17 you could have shield grabbed this.
7:19 don't fish for kills. Dair's landing is super punishable.
7:25 you landed right in front of Oli and got punished :/
7:26 could have covered the recovery with spam or a bomb pull.
7:30 if Dair hits a pikmin the next hit will be the weak bounce hit. You FF it when it would have bounced and ended safely.
7:33-end you keep landing right on top of Oli.
:urg:

Stock 1 good, you're getting the feel for his patterns. Stock 2 great spacing, reading him and frame traps; you're playing very well :). Stock 3 major choke :(, you're trying to Blitz him which Link can't do, neglecting spacing and fishing for KOs.
The simple answer is you choked. Play like the 2nd stock. If you are in a bad spot or get frustrated, reset the situation and play safe with attacks that don't commit like jabs/Nair/Zair/Utilt and spamming from a distance. Sometimes a player needs to play safe and pull their game back together before continuing.

You played the 3rd stock like the Snake game I critiqued a few posts earlier. Keep your cool and maintain spacing no matter what.

'Hope that helps.
 

Anonano

is the mano, ya know?
Joined
Jul 25, 2008
Messages
1,769
Location
Utah
Welllll now that Rizen has done that one too I would ask that you critique the Bowser one instead, Scabe.
 

Scabe

Successful Businessman
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
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Location
Canberra, Australia
I had a lengthy reply but my computer closed out of it. So here's a quick condensed and concise version.

  • Space projectiles so that you don't get punished afterwards. If you're being hit after you do a projectile then you're doing it too close.
  • Try hold on to your lead as long as possible. Do some ledge stalling, running away and spamming.
  • In fact be more comfortable on the ledge, you seem to try and get off it as soon as possible. Link has some alright ledge stalling, like just dropping down and then up Bing back, I also think he can pull out a bomb, not sure if he can drop down then pull a bomb and then come back up, something to test out.
  • Be more defensive on that Smashville platform. Dying twice in one match by being on that platform is not a good sign.
  • At around 1:04 you so could have done bombfootstool to dair. :p
  • If you're finding it hard to kill the opponent, whenever you really close try pulling out some Dairs, either full hopped or short hopped. Sometimes it's a good surprise. Punishes Side dodges sometimes.
That's about it, you played good and you should have won that match along with that match against Olimar.

You make me want to play Link again.
 

Anonano

is the mano, ya know?
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Double post because 12 days.

So, this is two of the matches from the losers final from the monthly I just went to. I'd love critique on what I could've/should've done better.

A couple of things I'd like to throw out there before you begin critiquing:
1) First match I accidentally used someone else's tag. I think this contributed to a couple of the wonky uairs that happened.
2) Yessss I know I shouldn't have FFbombpulled that one stock while recovering, and I was trying not to. Any tips on how to bombpull and not FF? Somebody was telling me today that they hold down and right when they bombpull, but that doesn't make sense because I always boomerang instead.
3) I consciously used all three projectiles and made sure not to double jump needlessly. Feel I can still work a little on the double jump part.

http://youtu.be/qFOzka9drdA

EDIT: Rizen, you should include my vids in the OP :awesome:
 

Scabe

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  • Need better movement, your Link looks clunky and slow. It does a move, then pauses to figure out what move to do next, kind of like how a CPU plays. Work on being more fluid, where each move and movement flows to the next.
  • More bombs less arrows, bombs pressure better.
  • Space Zairs better, couple of times were just straight into a shield grab.
  • Try using some short hopped double hit Fairs,
  • You don't hold your shield long enough. Like you shield because you expect to get hit, but the way you shield you shield for like a second, and then let go, I've seen you get punished by this quite a few times. One moment is at 3:39.
  • Watch how your opponent lands. You started punishing really good with grabs on Snake on the last game. Since I noticed that Snake usually would shield when he hits the ground.
  • Mix up your recovery. Using that double jump early a lot of the times can be the safer option.
  • Throw in some Dairs only when they're at their dair kill high percent, it's a good surprise killer if used sparingly.
And to answer your question I suggest not taking the risk and trying to bombpull without a jump. Not worth it if you end up failing, good chance that will happen. But if you practice just slightly tilting down it should be pretty good.

 

Anonano

is the mano, ya know?
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Huh. It's too bad that you feel I did that badly--but that's why I'm going to tourneys these days.
 

Scabe

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Well you got two stocked both matches iiirc. It's a great thing you're going to tourneys, for all means don't stop. I guess I was a bit harsh but it's really only me taking my valuable time to watch your match like 6 times just to help you improve your game.
 

Anonano

is the mano, ya know?
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I certainly think you were being too harsh with your feedback. However, I appreciate you taking time to give me critique. Thanks for giving it. Just remember: How many years have I been around, and active, in spite of lackluster tourney attendance, having no MU experience, or even theorycrafting experience? You're not going to scare me away through honest and brutal feedback. I'm certainly discontented about it, but I'm going to take it for what it is and I'm going to use it to improve, not go cry in a corner.

Your time is valuable and I thank you for giving me an opportunity to look at my playstyle from a different perspective. It's certainly made me think harder about my playstyle. I'm going to try to reincorporate more bombs into my spam game, mix-up my mid-close range game by using zairs and fairs instead rushing in with nairs, and I'm going to focus on conserving my double-jump a little bit more.

I've also noticed late in the second game Snake landed behind me, and I moved away b/c I was uncomfortable with my options. I'm going to try and see how upb works as a punish move for landing behind Link (obviously on the rare occasion, not as the norm).

Also I noticed a couple of times I tried to pressure Snake's shield up close with jabs. I should have jab cancelled into a retreating zair instead of continuing to try to pressure him. There are clearly situations zair would've been effective that I didn't do it, so yeah, I can modify my style a lot right there.
 

Scabe

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Sorry about the brutalness, I know how bad it feels like to be criticized like that.

I enjoyed watching the match though. 6 minutes or minutes flew by pretty quickly when I was watching it over and over.

I think Fair is a pretty good shield pressure (that's why I suggested to use it more mostly in that situation) and Dtilt too (since it has a short ending lag iirc, I've tricked opponents into thinking they could punish me after the Dtilt and I would jab straight after but this was awhile ago.)

Oh and one my pointers was to use the double jump more. Because sometimes conserving it can get you gimped like in that first spike Snake did on you.
 

Anonano

is the mano, ya know?
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I'm pretty much trying to just ease myself into tourney play right now. Master the basics. For instance, if you watch closely you'll notice several times where I run past the opponent and turn around and don't do anything immediately. I'm really good at luring players into landing in pivot grabs, but I just can't execute it. It's the same thing for running reverse boomerangs and JC bthrow bombs. You'll see me mess that up fairly consistently in my matches.

DJing is really hard to time, and that Snake has the best edgeguarding game I've ever played against. I'm still trying to figure out how to get past him, but he's really good forcing options. I really didn't have much choice but to fall low, which is by far my safest option (because if I recover higher he has ample time and options to punish me). Besides, tbh I'm working on mastering lowest recoveries possible because there have been so many times in tourney where if I'd waiting just a few more frames I would've been able to knock opponents off the edge.
Basically, I don't mind losing to that stupid spike right now because I'm not trying to learn how to avoid it. My major concern is to figure out how to recover perfectly (because I have full confidence that Link CAN knock people off the edge--it is seriously a matter of waiting a few frames). I don't mind losing stocks to gimmicky strategies. They'll be easier to take care of later if I can master basics now.

Dtilt just doesn't have the range or startup speed to be useful in the Snake MU I'm afraid. Snake pieces Link apart in close range, as you could see. But I did use it as a setup on a Kirby player in the tournament which was fun (I meant to dsmash BUT OH WELL).
 

Scabe

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Ah good to know the reasoning behind the "mistakes" that I saw. And yeah that Snake player is really good at forcing options.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
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Location
Colorado
I've been busy recently.

About the Snake match:
I'm pretty much trying to just ease myself into tourney play right now. Master the basics. For instance, if you watch closely you'll notice several times where I run past the opponent and turn around and don't do anything immediately. I'm really good at luring players into landing in pivot grabs, but I just can't execute it. It's the same thing for running reverse boomerangs and JC bthrow bombs. You'll see me mess that up fairly consistently in my matches.
^this really says it. You know the options but hesitate and have to think too long. When I'm nervous or tired I do that too (lol, my shame: http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=P...=mzYB_XPqK94&feature=player_detailpage#t=231s ) . I believe Link places low because he's SO DIFFICULT to think fast enough and process the situations to space right :urg:. Work on speeding up your game and 'instinctively' seeing what moves are for what spacing; the old 'tip-of-attack' spacing rule :awesome:. Remember spacing comes first, including not retreating too far either.

Think of tourney games like $1 money matches; don't sand bag but no real pressure. I do worse when I feel pressured or irritable. It's important to have a good, relaxed but serious mindset.

An example that sums it up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFOzka9drdA&feature=player_detailpage#t=296s
Bair and momentum cancel immediately and you easily could have landed on stage. Snake's Fair was also easy to see and airdodge. You didn't act and ended in a worse and worse position.

Use less Uairs, you spammed those.
 

KotierWolf

Smash Rookie
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Messages
14
Location
Los Angles, CA
NNID
KotierWolf
3DS FC
0404-8218-2413
I only have a couple for now:
Link Dittos
Opponent: Anonano​
WiFi​
Opponent: TriforceOSM​
WiFi​
Opponent: TriforceOSM​
WiFi​
Ganondorf
Opponent: Tree​
WiFi​
Falco
Opponent: DOOMS​
WiFi​
Opponent: NAVI​
WiFi​
Marth
Opponent: Shaun​
WiFi​
Samus
Opponent: DOOMS​
WiFi​
Opponent: ?​
WiFi​
Snake
Opponent: NAVI​
WiFi​
 

Anonano

is the mano, ya know?
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I only have a couple for now:
Link Dittos
Opponent: Anonano​
WiFi​
LOL dtilt spike <3 Not gonna lie, this was probably one of my first matches after my hiatus.

Both of us have improved so much since that vid idk that you'd get much help from a critique of it. You have much more advanced spam play now and you know longer roll into your opponent all the time xP
 

Rizen

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LOL dtilt spike <3 Not gonna lie, this was probably one of my first matches after my hiatus.
Ano was on a 2 year vacation in a tropical paradise while the rest of us were here working our butts off playing videogames ;)
(I'm just kidding of course)



Added Kotier's vids and I'll critique later when I have time. :)


I have lots of good vids coming soon too ;)

____________________________________________________________________
Edit:
Ganondorf
Opponent: Tree​
WiFi​

Ganon's a weird match. Keep in mind he can't do anything to you unless you show vulnerability. His fastest ground moves are jab (frame) 8 and grab 7. His Uair is good (best in the game IMO, yes better than ZSS's) and starts frame 6 and he has 7 frames jump lag. Link also has 7 lag frames when jumping btw.
Link's reach is better and Link jabs frame 6. Ganon needs to use your lag and must approach. He can do that and get a frame advantage vs your attacks with shields and dodges.


You entered Ganon's workspace. Retreating is all you have to do. If you're behind, keep Ganon at tip of jab (or better Zair) spacing and chip away until you make an opening. Only use low risk options (projectiles from a distance greater than Zair's reach, Zair/jab/Utilt/Bair/Fair from tip reach) and Ganon will be forced to make reads vs the slightly faster Link. Keep in mind boomerang and arrows are slow attacks that Ganon can hit through; never use them close.

Ganon's Uair beats everything except bombs if he spaces it right from below. Link's reach advantage on Ganon is much better from the side so play to that (don't go above/below him).
 

KotierWolf

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Jul 22, 2012
Messages
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Location
Los Angles, CA
NNID
KotierWolf
3DS FC
0404-8218-2413
That Uair did seem pretty ridiculous every time it hit. I'll have to get out of the habit of ending up above or below him, and rushing Ganon at times.

Here's a couple more videos that are more relevant; all recorded this week.

Donkey Kong
Opponent: bsm​
WiFi​
Critique
Ike
Opponent: bsm​
WiFi​
Kirby
Opponent: Tree​
WiFi​
Critique
Peach
Opponent: bsm​
WiFi​
Pikachu
Opponent: bsm​
WiFi​
Snake
Opponent: bsm​
WiFi​
Critique
Wario
Opponent: bsm​
WiFi​
Critique
 

Anonano

is the mano, ya know?
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Messages
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v. Snake:

Use your grabs to punish Snake's landings or if he ftilts your shield from up close, but avoid grabbing him otherwise because he punishes pretty hard. Around :50-1:08 you made a couple of mistakes by trying to bombpull from up close. Snake can punish you really well so be careful.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
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Messages
14,902
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Colorado
Snake
Opponent: bsm​
WiFi​
Critique

General:
Link can out camp Snake. Use more boomerang and arrow camping because those will stop nades and are faster than he can pull them. Bombs are not good for camping Snake because the detonate nades and are about as fast. Link's advantage in camping is he can make nakes land next to snake by shooting them and wind will pull nades offstage.

You got bombs out but used them in a way that limited your fighting. Know when to use other attacks with bombs like rang, Zair, Fsmash etc. Don't pull bombs at the expense of losing spacing or letting the opponent reset a situation that is good for Link.

Know when to reset and when to punish. You missed a lot of times when you could have pressured Snake.

Specific:
0:14 don't abandon attack chains. Snake's landing could have been grabbed here.
0:20ish you spaced well and defensive before here but at this point you should be throwing more arrows and rang out and not hesitating. Keep the spamming momentum.
0:25 Especially on wifi it's best to simply stay away from nades. You might have tried to grab the nade but getting a boomerang onscreen would have been better anyway.
0:28 Zair to cover landings like this.
0:32 only grab to punish. If you think Snake will rush, jab him.
0:20-50ish you move around and hesitate a lot. Work on getting projectiles other than bombs out too. Keep the spamming momentum going.
0:54 I like to OoS SH Bair these. The boomerang wasn't superclose but a bit close vs characters with good rush attacks like snake.
0:56 you can go for the ledge to avoid being punished when landing.
1:00 Zair is a good tool vs Snake that would have worked here. Snake's Ftilt range is huge and it's an unsafe place for Link to spam in.
1:04 unsafe bomb pull. Bombs can be great but don't sacrifice spacing for them.
1:07 Nair starts frame 6, Fair frame 13. Use Nair for quick GTFO situations. Snake's Dair probably shouldn't have killed if you had momentum canceled with FF and not 2nd jumped. I think :/. save your 2nd to help recover and not as you're flying backward.
1:14 good pressure but you abandoned it to bomb pull and right on top a nade. Snake's vulnerable to pressure in the air so keep at him.
1:19 you bomb pull>run under nade closing to bad spacing. Instead use arrows and boomerang to create traps and openings.
1:28 was this backwards rang by accident? Sometimes I misbuffer and do that but it's not a good tactic.
1:30 land behind opponents if anything. Zair behind>jab might have worked. Keep in mind Snake's Ftilt starts frame 4 and wrecks Link close.
1:32 you hesitated. OoS grab/Spin attack would have worked but probably shield drop jab or Dsmash too.
1:35 you could have landed a SH offstage Fair. Exploit Snakes vulnerability offstage.
1:41 this is a good example of bombs limiting your fighting. At 1:42 you could have spin attacked/Fsmashed the landing or grabbed if you hadn't pulled the 2nd bomb. Throwing that bomb forward would have been better than jumping>throwing it down on a landing.
1:47 another time bombs limited you. Don't drop opportunities to pressure bad positions to get bombs out. Use Fsmash and Zair with bombs too. Throwing one against the shield let him reset the good situation for you.
1:55 more bad bomb options (throwing it). Getting lots of bombs out is good but not at the expense of spacing or letting the opponent reset when they need to. Get other attacks like rang, Zair, arrows out with bombs too. Don't pull and throw alone. Nice platform pressure Fair.
2:05 instead of throwing 1 bomb up too soon and pulling another go for a read with the 1st and make Snake airdodge or something you can punish.
2:09-2:20 this is generally bad spacing and letting Snake's nades get the upper hand and use your bombs against you. Sometimes it's better to reset. Snake wins damage trades.
2:23 lots of bombs but they're not safe.
2:31 bomb pull that let him reset and escape a bad spot. Look for opportunities to pressure.
2:38 I'm guessing the turn around grab was by mistake.
2:43 nice.
2:45 pulling the bomb made it so you couldn't grab his upB. Bomb Fsmash would have been the next best thing.
3:00 don't roll into opponents. Zair>jab.
3:16 bombs can be thrown OoS.
3:21 good grab.
3:22 you could have Fair/Bair-ed instead of pulling a bomb.
4:11 look for opportunities to grab Snake out of his upB>hold without pummeling>let a grab break happen and he'll be forced to C4 himself or fall to his death.
4:19 you rolled backwards when you could have punished.
I hate Snake's Bair :[

'hope that helps.
 

Scabe

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Kotier I'm critiquing your Wario one.

Wario is a really tough match up imo. I think you did pretty well considering that. You got a solid link.

Some tips would be to throw out some Fairs, nairs to zone him out.

If he's about to land near you stay on the ground and try to space jabs. I think this part is real key here!

Try and gauge at what distance you can get away with pulling a bomb out without him getting in on you and then only pull bombs from that distance. Probably best just to bomb pull away rather than bomb pulling towards him.

At like 2:20 your play was beautiful.

Anyways that's all I got, I think you're pretty solid.
 

Anonano

is the mano, ya know?
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Messages
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Utah
Wish I got critiques like that.

Anyways, I've got a couple of new matches to post here.

1 v 1's
v Marth *Critique requested*

v Yoshi
v Olimar​

The matches that were lulz
2 v 1!!!
v. Samus/Toon Link (as Lucario)
Look at me get stomped
v Jigglypuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLb5ZEFW4Bs (Probably my best match yet)
That moment where I was like, No Sakurai, we WILL save this replay
The part where I 0-death someone
I tried switching up controls this time around to give Wavebounce Link a try. Switched the c-stick to specials instead of smashes. Means giving up DAC and Bombslides, but it was very helpful for spacing and baiting. Momentum cancelling was a pain in the butt because I kept hitting the c-stick (although theoretically with R set to Attack I should be able to still use the c-stick for SDI and MC with R...just thought of that :/ ). It also makes punishing with smashes much more difficult, say, dsmashing out of a grab was almost impossible.​
But overall I felt much more in control of my projectile game, and it made pulling bombs while recovering without FFing way easier.​
EDIT FOR KOTIER: The v Kirby match​
When you stayed back and spaced with projectiles and zair the Kirby player pretty much couldn't do anything to you. You gave a lot of openings when trying to approach him and Kirby just LOVES openings for bair/fsmash. Don't ever dair Kirby if you've already lost your second jump because he will gimp you.​
Kirby tends to be more of a punishing character when facing Link--wait for an opening to CG, wait for an opening to bair/fsmash. Protecting yourself while you return to the ground should be your priority, not killing Kirby, because Kirby will punish landings best with those moves and Link can't afford those particular moves hitting him. Had you not daired those two or three times from off the top of the screen you could have won easily.​
As a note, most of Kirby's aerials have a little startup lag before they come out, so Link can ff nair/bair to get past Kirby instead of dairing.​
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Colorado
1 v 1's
v Marth *Critique requested*

Start You're doing very well
3:19 DI inland it's safer.
3:21 Utilt's safer here.
3:25 that sucks :(. It's easier to ledgestall then punish then to try and time those.
3:36 cover landings with Zair.
3:40-56 good reads, lol Marth missed that recovery. Good intercepting rang.
3:56-4:07 good work. Don't attack with aerial spins he can DI out and punish.
4:13 bad spacing rolling toward Marth. Shield dashing or airdodge would be safer crossovers.
4:16 same thing as above.
4:20 good timing. Too risky for my taste but you pulled the ledge hop air dodge off.
4:29 great punishing grab game.
4:47 work on not rolling into the opponent. Marth got you that time.
4:58 Fair spacing not Dair. Tip Fair probably would have avoided the counter. That upB was probably a mistake.
5:19 good Bair>FF>land. You lost the advantage by throwing the rang backwards though.
5:30 Marth recognized your ledge get up timing and pattern. Better to play these safe than risk getting smashed offstage.
5:37 see above comment^.
5:52 good FF airdodge to return down to the stage.
6:02 there's the Fair spacing for that :)
...to end good work :)

You played very well. A few habits to work on are be careful with rolls and be patient with ledge returns, those cost you a lot. vs Marth make him come to you more with projectiles and avoid being in his upB attack area. Good defensive play and spacing otherwise.

Great work :)

_______________
Ano and Kotier's vids added btw.
 

Anonano

is the mano, ya know?
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Utah
You know what, it's a shame that Kotier's parents won't let him go to tournaments. If his offline Link is anywhere as good as his online Link (and it almost certainly is) and he could make it to a tournament in CA one day, he could probably give us a pretty good idea of how Link's current metagame places in tournaments.

I've got Salt Fest in a couple weeks with players already preregistered coming from:
Anyways, states that I have on the preregister list so far:
1. Washington
2. Arizona
3. Colorado
4. Idaho
5. California
6. Nevada
I'm definitely not a good rep of Link's metagame, especially as I'm likely going to continue experimenting with the wavebounce controller setup. (Need to relearn MCing -_-; ) It'd be nice for the people who live in more active and advanced areas to get out and represent.
Also, I was seriously tempted as I was getting back into the tourney scene to switch from Link entirely but I'm glad I haven't. I thought maining him was going to be so painful but as it turns out it hasn't been. I even managed to take a Falco main to last stock in a tourney a couple weeks ago in a friendly and it wasn't that hard. You guys should really try to make it out to tourneys. I feel pretty lonely posting my results every few weeks. :(
 
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