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Hey guys, I'm in need of some help...

Randicus

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
15
Hey guys I'm new here and I've been a DK main since the original N64 Smash days. You guys have always had some good tid bits I've used to improve my game, now I come to you to ask what am I doing wrong against Fox? My friend and I have played one on one COUNTLESS times, and I've only successfully beaten him once in a 3 life comeback. He essentially uses the same tactics against me, which is his down air followed by either an uptilt or upsmash. Unfortunately, due to DK's massive physique, he gets literally stuck in Fox's uptilt where I'll get racked up to 40-60 damage in a short amount of time. Are there ways to get out of it, or perhaps prevent him from unleashing this damaging combo? This video is a good example of my poor tactics...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMi1nbpgHg8

Help is appreciated!
 

Veggi

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Messages
2,590
Location
I'm gonna wreck it! (Fort Myers)
You can shield after the initial dair before the up tilts. You can use more than one bair before you hit the ground, at lower percents you can use b air and do another right after it and have both hit. Use short-hopped back airs instead of full jumped. You can do double back airs during those too. Down b is a useful move, use that.

On another note, that Fox plays exactly like mine.
 

5yphon

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
Messages
62
Location
ohio
I watched the video and got angry and started yelling.....UP TILT im pretty sure that it stops the d-air and then u cant probbaly hit him 2 more times with u-tilt. use f-tilt more too and keep your spacing. It seemed like you fought the whole match in the air while dk is alot better than fox in range. Don't forget dk has super armor in his up-b and b fully charged. I would say if you fought him on the ground you would have more of an advantage. IM starting to find myself f-tilting more than b-airing.
 

Atsu

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
729
Location
Norcal
As 5yphon said, gotta use that Uptilt :3. You were getting continuously ***** by Fox's Dair > UpTilt Spam > Fair. I'm not too sure about UpSmash's priority but you could try that too. You were doing way too much Dsmash out of shield. It looked like the Fox was predicting you pretty well. DK outranges Fox is many ways. You were in the air too much Bairing all day. Work with his tilts. They're fast with enormous range. I'm not sure on the priority, but you can also try some UpAir juggling to counter the Dair.

But I feel your pain in the UpTilt =/. I get stuck in Peach's Ftilt a lot (Large Hitbox makes it hard to dodge D:). Gets me to around 40-60% off the spot. So basically, I'm not too sure of a way to get out of it.

I liked the UpB Stage Spike :p

Good Luck! :D
 

Randicus

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
15
Ugh, I spam Dsmash when I get frustrated haha. I tend not to up tilt because (even with tap jump off) I blow it and accidently smash (which answering another question, doesnt have priority). Definately good advice though, I was stuck on the idea that staying in the air with bair would be beneficial, but it appears tilts are the way to go!
 

Randicus

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
15
Oh, and another question: How can the lag be negated after the upB while in the air? I still haven't quite gotten the feel for that, any tips?
 

The Unlawful Salmon

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
32
Practice using all of DKs moves vs fox. There's a time and place for almost all of them. You seemed to be at a loss at what to do when placed forwards(face to face) at him.

Some tips:
-You can Bair to approach from a distance to avoid laser spam(Which you were doing.)
-When your close, and face to face with fox Dtilt and Ftilts are golden. Use it to keep him spaced, don't worry about Bairing except on approaching fox. Once your in close learn DK's forward/ground game.
-A grounded UpB at close range is also very good for racking up damage. A full hit can do 30%+, and it's hard to punish. Make sure if you land it, they won't be using a full shield against it, and make sure you are very close to them so it doesn't wear down too soon.
You can cancel the landing lag by finishing the move directly on a platform. For example you can drop off backwards from a ledge, and swing around with your UpB to land grounded on the stage with no lag.
-Get position on fox, and always try to keep it. You want him playing your game. If you play his, your going to have a much harder time. Fox can't force his game onto you like falco can.
-Avoid letting fox get into a position where he can Dair you and combo you with kicks. This isn't too hard since DK has a great spacing game, and has lots of great anti-aerial attacks.
-Learn to 9-whirl punch. A 9-whirl punch has greater knock-back than a fully charged DK punch. The 9-whirl can get kills at around 50% or less if landed. When fox is around 80%+ use a fully charged one, since it will kill him just as well. To count to 9 whirls, count in your head with the charging sound: one-two-three, one-two-three, one-two-three, then press shield to cancel it.
-Get used to using all of DK's moves.
 

Tbagz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
483
Location
Toms River, New Jersey
ok i dont play donkeykong, but my friend uses him and hes amazing with him.

first off, stop jumping around so much, donkeykong isnt really an arielcombat character unles its his Bair.

2nd, side step dodge twice when he comes down with the spin and the u tilt, do this combo

dtilt- THIS WILL NORMALLY CAUSE HIM TO TRIP
ftilt-ftilt
run up to him grab him hit him once and do a BACK throw.

donkeykongs back throw is brutal. keep ure distance and dont forget about that down B if your in a pinch. but dont use to frequently, when hes coming after u charge up a foward smash, if he isnt smart hell forget about donkeykongs insane reach and get punished.

i hope this helped
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,632
What is this 9 whirl punch you speak of?
charge the B-punch until you've heard 9 *whoosh* sounds. its stronger than a fully charged one but doesnot have super armor.

use your up-b on the ground more often to its very good.

use bair like crazy, full hop it, short hop it, whatever, just don't let fox use dair on you. you need aerial control trust me as a very good DK player

a very effective combo would be to bair their shields then pull back so you can't get grabbed and then f smash them. chances are very high that they will try and grab you anyway

if fox does get a dair on you keep smashing the control stick away from the way fox is facing. this will cause you to come out of the dair at fox's back side, you don't want to be in front due to up smash, this allows you to only be hit with a up tilt or D smash which may be power shielded.then use D smash.

stages to counter pick would be frigate, rainbow cruise, and luigi's mansion.
 

Randicus

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
15
Thanks to everyones help, I pulled off a victory against the Fox. I still repeat some mistakes, but theres is significant improvement. I don't always stop his dair utilt, but when I do, I severely punish him, having killed him twice that way. Thanks for the help guys, heres the vid, lemme know if theres any more I could be doing!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkpXmt7Lf_8
 

Master Raven

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
3,491
Location
SFL
I haven't read the whole topic but I'll give you some tips with DK:

DK has some seriously good throws; although I don't use his Uthrow or Cargo Ftoss very much, the rest of his other ones are great. A good combo you can use is Dthrow -> Ftilt; this works good for very low %, and the smaller the enemy, the faster you'll throw them, and the easier it will be to Ftilt them. Bthrow is basically DK's best throw, KO wise. This can easily kill an opponent if thrown from the edge of the stage at a high enough %, so use it a lot. Ah, now we get to the cargo throw; what an excellent one. Generally the best Cargo toss you'll want to use is Dtoss to set up several traps and attacks. A good example would be Dtoss -> Fair or Dair for a spike. This is the most common set up. Another good one is Dtoss -> Bair your opponent away. Finally, Cargo stage spike is your friend. I once told someone that they should always do it if they're near the edge and the enemy's at a high enough %, but like bigfoot said, Bthrow sometimes is the better option, however you definitely want to learn to utilize CSS whenever you have the opportunity.

DK has amazing tilts. Ftilt has great knockback and Dtilt is excellent for tripping the enemy and to set up some devastating follow-ups. Generally I like to do Dtilt -> DownB. Try it; it works wonders. Utilt has amazing range that can hit the enemy pretty far from behind, and you can sometimes juggle your opponents with it.

Don't be afraid to sometimes use his dash attack. It has some lag in the end, but if you use it sparingly enough that you can catch the enemy by surprise with it, it works wonders. It has really good knockback, even at very low %.

Learn to stall with UpB on the edge during moments where the enemy is pressuring you on the edge too much to safely get back up. You'll want to do this quickly and efficiently by pressing the opposite direction you're facing as you're hanging on the ledge, then immediatly pressing UpB. This is the quicket way to ledge stall. His ledge attack at low % is very good too, and has great range and speed.

Learn to spike very well with Fair and Dair, depending on the situation that's suitable for either one of those attacks. Sometimes I like to Fair as I get back on the stage if my opponent decides to jump and attempt to edgeguard me. This won't always work, obviously, but sometimes you'll catch them with it and spike 'em good. I've managed to do that several times. Dair is the safer option, and almost has just as good knockback as Fair. As for Bair, I think you're doing well enough with it as it is. Definitely one of DK's best approaches. A favorite use of mine for Bair however is to stage spike enemies. Usually I do this if they're stalling up and down on the ledge, and I run off the stage and immediatly Bair in hope of smacking them onto the sloped ledges to stage spike them. This will work on any stage with sloped edges. Learn to use Uair as well. Uair definitely has decent KO power and it's good for catching enemies by surprise. You can also hit enemies with it while ledge stalling if they're close enough. Nair is a good move, albeit a tad situational. Sometimes I use it when falling down or in the air.

DK's smashes are amazing, and some of the best in the game. Generally I like to use Fsmash to punish rolls, air dodges, and any enemy that attempts to recover back on the stage (a good example with Fox is if he uses his SideB and you position yourself so that he lands right in front of you, and you Fsmash him in the face). It has amazingly good range and almost just as good knockback as the super punch. Dsmash is probably the most common smash you'll want to use. It has a HUGE hitbox and can actually hit enemies from above, even if they're on platforms (Ex: Battlefield). This is a smash you'll want to use often to punish enemies. Usmash is probably going to be your least used smash, but do use it when you can! The best time to use it for example is if an enemy is above you on a platform. Other good uses are to punish air dodges and if you predict the enemy will jump above you from the edge.

DK's jab is actually pretty decent. I don't have much to say for this move but you can juggle enemies a couple times with it at very low %. You can also jab cancel and follow it up with a tilt. I commonly use A -> Dtilt -> Ftilt.

Finally, we get onto his specials. I don't think I need to explain the super punch much to you. This is by far DK's best KO move and you'll definitely want to keep it charged at all times. You can charge it in the air and press the dodge button during charging to stop the charge too. UpB is another move I really like. Use this move and its super armor frames to your advantage to rip through your enemies, and use it for punishing spot dodges and rolls as well. DownB is an amazing move, probably my second-most used DK special. This is a great move to punish rolling and spot dodging, and as I've mentioned before, Dtilt -> DownB works absolute wonders. This move can even outrange Snake's tilts, so consider that the next time you fight a Snake. Finally, his SideB. SideB is a bit of a risky move, but oh boy is it awesome when you hit someone with it. You'll want to use this mostly for punishing dodges. You can also spike people with it, but that's pretty risky and they don't really go too far down so I don't really use SideB for that.

tl;dr You'll love DK. :)
 

Randicus

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
15
I haven't read the whole topic but I'll give you some tips with DK:

Finally, Cargo stage spike is your friend
Learn to spike very well with Fair and Dair, depending on the situation that's suitable for either one of those attacks
tl;dr You'll love DK. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjeWm5OcBpA
Thanks alot for the advice, although spiking was very familiar to me...I sort of abused it here against my friend who is improving ^, yet he still hasn't learned to predict (or wiggle) the CSS or regular spike.
The headbutt is risky, but it paid off when I finally defeated my friend who uses Fox...Nothing is more satisfying then headbutting someone into the ground then smash them as they helplessly mash buttons to escape!
 
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