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Heroes Draw Near. Command? (Hero Social Thread)

Not counting newcomers/echoes, which kind of DQ content would you like in future Smash games?

  • Assist throphies (i.e. Slime/Slime Family, Golems, Killer Machines, Party Members)

    Votes: 22 51.2%
  • Mii costumes (Alena, Torneko, Yangus, Priest)

    Votes: 8 18.6%
  • Stages to show more DQ worlds

    Votes: 10 23.3%
  • New tracks and arrangements

    Votes: 22 51.2%
  • A boss (i.e. Dragonlord, Estark, Bjørn)

    Votes: 9 20.9%
  • More Hero Alts (either male or female)

    Votes: 17 39.5%
  • More cameos

    Votes: 4 9.3%
  • Items (Chimera wing for example)

    Votes: 4 9.3%

  • Total voters
    43

Teeb147

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
10,624
So apparently Heal is limited to 2 uses per stock. That should shut up those that thought it'd be too good.

Played a bunch of Hero. REALLY don't like him. Which sucks because it was one of my most requested characters.

The Down+B is useless because of A. Randomness. B. Awkward menu navigation. C. Once you start using the menu, you're stuck there till you use a move. It's the most telegraphed move in history.

The mana also sucks. The fact that you can't even use your recovery move if you're out of MP blows.

I get that they were going for fanservice, but all these RPG mechanics make the character no fun to play. That's why none of the other JRPG characters use them...
You can shield or jump to get out of the menu.
I think the menu is fun casually, but competitively it's a steap learning curve because you have to constantly look back and forth from the battle to the menu to quickly see which ones are there, and then navigate.

Basically what I started doing for now is only look at the first two options cuz frankly it's a little too much to process and go through all at once.
I think the mana is actually well balanced and still fun since it's easy enough to recover and uncharged up-b only uses around 4 mp which usually you should have if youre being at least a little conservative, which is true to dragon quest.

I definitely think the character wont be everyone's cup of tea tho.

The boys are way too broken. lol
They really aren't :/ I think the crits are a bit too much tho, but i guess that's something people will have to watch out for. would be nice if it'd be only 25% more power, or even less.
 
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GolisoPower

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2017
Messages
4,337
You can shield or jump to get out of the menu.
I think the menu is fun casually, but competitively it's a steap learning curve because you have to constantly look back and forth from the battle to the menu to quickly see which ones are there, and then navigate.

Basically what I started doing for now is only look at the first two options cuz frankly it's a little too much to process and go through all at once.
I think the mana is actually well balanced and still fun since it's easy enough to recover and uncharged up-b only uses around 4 mp which usually you should have if youre being at least a little conservative, which is true to dragon quest.
I personally think the randomness and the MP make it balanced.

For the randomness, if we could consistently cast spells without RNG, we'd be going all Kiryl and spamming Thwack a lot. Or we'd be spamming Heal. Or Kaclang. Or really any spell that's good against the current opponent. The spells themselves are absolutely bonkers and I'm kind of glad that this is one of the barriers.

The MP also ensures that we don't do it for free, either. The Up B is affordable on MP, just as you say, and it only takes 4 seconds to regenerate the cost. Less if you land attacks. MP is another great setback because it further assures that you won't be using all of them for free. Also, Magic Burst is a thing, so having that without MP is like using Thoron without spending tome durability.

Besides, I'm aware people don't like the RNG aspect of the character to the point of lunacy, but we've only had Hero for a few hours. We should at least lab with him for a week at the least before writing him off as a terrible character. Who knows? Maybe there's some sort of tech that gives you the spell you want in Command Selection. Maybe there's a shortcut input to casting the spells that we don't know about. It's way too early, but I respect any first impressions, good or bad, that anyone may have.
 
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Troykv

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
3,990
I arrived too late for clusterheck.

How is people feeling Hero in Smash Boards guys?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I arrived too late for clusterheck.

How is people feeling Hero in Smash Boards guys?
The Geno thread seems to celebrate Hero with me a lot, lol.

This thread has been sharing some personal pros and cons of the character thankfully without getting into a bad mood overall... And I don’t want to check how it went at the Ultimate Social thread.

If you ask me, DQ got the justice I was hoping for and even more with Ultimate. I used 9€ for Hero and the Mii costumes and I feel that the price was fully worth it in the end.
 

Munchi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
296
I arrived too late for clusterheck.

How is people feeling Hero in Smash Boards guys?
A character that really represents the RPG in an incredible way and with several references and quite fun to play
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
It's only been a day and people are already finding new tech to get around some of the heroes flaws
The Smash community always try to work pretty fast, lol.

But it’s alright as long as I keep having fun with Hero and my other mains as usual.

Also worth to note is that some of my friends may come home this weekend to try out Hero with me! :D
 

Izanagi97

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Messages
1,477
Location
Cincinnati, OH
Switch FC
SW-2051-8893-9128
So, it looks like Meshima went and posted some of his Params on twitter


Comparing the stats to others, here is what I got

  • Walk Speed: On the slow side (a bit slower than Falcon)
  • Initial Dash: Also kinda slow (a bit faster than Ganondorf, Shulk, Pac-Man, and Samus)
  • Run Speed: Actually faster than I thought (Between Pit and WFT)
  • Air Speed: Rather slow (same air speed as Squirtle)
  • Fall Speed: Seems to be kinda floaty (falls slightly slower than Inkling), Fast Fall multiplier is 60%
  • Weight: Technically a heavy going off Kurogane Hammer (Between Cloud and Mega Man)
  • Ground Friction: Average (same as the shotos)
  • Air Friction: I have no idea because SSBwiki doesn't have the SSBU Air friction values
  • Gravity: Higher than average (bit lower than Pikachu)
 

Hadokeyblade

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 5, 2018
Messages
10,600
I only bought one of the mii costunes, Veronica, because I like how that costume looks.

I love how the slime hat looks but I've never once bought a hat in smash bros, they seem like a complete ripoff to me considering they are the same price as a full outfit.
 

Teeb147

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
10,624
Actually you can just press a direction with B or A too when you select the spell. very simple.

Normally you can reverse specials, so i think it was designed that way so you can still turn around with spells. Never was a flaw. ;p
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
I just bought every Mii costume both for completionist’s sake, get the full DQ content in the game and to support the franchise in the West which is actually pretty needed.

But I can understand why some people wouldn’t doh, which is fair.
 

Munchi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
296
I wonder how the viability of the hero will advance when people get used to it and learn to use it and at the same time learn to exploit their weaknesses
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I wonder how the viability of the hero will advance when people get used to it and learn to use it and at the same time learn to exploit their weaknesses
Only time will tell, but hopefully there won’t be a lot of controversy or dramas in the meantime.
 

TheTrueBrawler

Smash Demon
Joined
Jul 16, 2018
Messages
817
Location
Mystery
I love the idea for this character, and the way he fights is unique to him besides his copy pasted sword aerials and dash attack. The only real issue I have with this character (it is a pretty big one) is his Down Special, Command Selection. I feel as if one of the Hero's most unique moves was also his most poorly created move. Don't get me wrong, I like the RNG factor and choices that have to be made from a list of four spells, but there are two major flaws with this move that ultimately complicate things.

The first flaw and less notable of the two is that the system of selecting a spell is way too clunky. When committing to Command Selection, a menu pops up which allows the player to select a desired spell. This menu for selecting a spell is way too far out of the way. There are certain spots on the map where it just seems impossible to focus both on reading the spell list and checking your character's surroundings at the same time. It should defiantly be closer to the character you're controlling instead of above your damage percent. One's peripheral vision being in sight of stuff happening around the character they're controlling can make a huge difference. The other big thing making this UI a difficult one to handle is the fact that you have to scroll up and down to get to your desired spell. I don’t know Dragon Quest, so it might work well in that game, but those extra inputs make it hard to use. All of this in combination with the fact that the menu is different each time you pull it up makes for a very hard move to use all because of a poorly designed system of selecting spells. I like to compare the current Command Selection to Shulk's Monado Arts from Smash 4. In that game, Shulk had to repeatedly hit buttons to access certain arts. It left Shulk somewhat vulnerable when changing to the Buster or Smash art, and if something interrupted them, the Shulk player may get stuck with the wrong art. The added accessibility in Smash Ultimate helps when playing characters like Shulk because the Monado selection is quick and easy. Why could they not do that to the Hero?

The other flaw and defiantly the bigger one is the fact that all the spells are listed only in words. This fact alone isn't a big problem, and it probably won't be in most situations, but the issues of having to work around the game’s language are extremely problematic. Imagine for a second that we see two Hero mains at a major tournament go head to head. Both can speak English, but only one of the two can read it because the other person has a different primary language, and there is no language both players can read. This alone could put one player at a major disadvantage if they use Command Selection often because they can't read what spell they're about to use. Take this other situation that happened to me earlier this morning. One person in my primary friend group is a Marth maining weaboo who plays the game in Japanese for the Japanese voice actor. He got the Hero, invited us over to play some Smash Bros, and after one match where we all played as the Hero, I stuck with him, but I couldn't read the command selection. This is all something that can be changed in the settings by the way. Changing the language is essentially "[COLOR=3366CC]How to f*ck with a Hero main 101[/COLOR]". I recommended the possibility of using icons alongside the words which are universal regardless of language, but I don't know if that is going to happen at this point. This type of stuff seriously needs to be accounted for in tournaments by the way, because without either a ban on the Hero or consistency in the language used, people will be able to exploit this to their heart's content, and Hero mains could suffer greatly.
 

Teeb147

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
10,624
There's artificial drama about the character. Some of it is in joking, but some of it is because some people are actually upset about the rng.

But i think the character is fine, since the command menu is hard to use in fast-paced fights. Tho like I mentioned before, i wouldn't mind if the crits were nerfed eventually.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
There's artificial drama about the character. Some of it is in joking, but some of it is because some people are actually upset about the rng.

But i think the character is fine, since the command menu is hard to use in fast-paced fights. Tho like I mentioned before, i wouldn't mind if the crits were nerfed eventually.
Yeah, I am fine with the RNG too and find the character far from being the broken fighter people are claiming it to be.

And honestly, there are people who just want to rant to cause problem at times.
 

Munchi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
296
I love the idea for this character, and the way he fights is unique to him besides his copy pasted sword aerials and dash attack. The only real issue I have with this character (it is a pretty big one) is his Down Special, Command Selection. I feel as if one of the Hero's most unique moves was also his most poorly created move. Don't get me wrong, I like the RNG factor and choices that have to be made from a list of four spells, but there are two major flaws with this move that ultimately complicate things.

The first flaw and less notable of the two is that the system of selecting a spell is way too clunky. When committing to Command Selection, a menu pops up which allows the player to select a desired spell. This menu for selecting a spell is way too far out of the way. There are certain spots on the map where it just seems impossible to focus both on reading the spell list and checking your character's surroundings at the same time. It should defiantly be closer to the character you're controlling instead of above your damage percent. One's peripheral vision being in sight of stuff happening around the character they're controlling can make a huge difference. The other big thing making this UI a difficult one to handle is the fact that you have to scroll up and down to get to your desired spell. I don’t know Dragon Quest, so it might work well in that game, but those extra inputs make it hard to use. All of this in combination with the fact that the menu is different each time you pull it up makes for a very hard move to use all because of a poorly designed system of selecting spells. I like to compare the current Command Selection to Shulk's Monado Arts from Smash 4. In that game, Shulk had to repeatedly hit buttons to access certain arts. It left Shulk somewhat vulnerable when changing to the Buster or Smash art, and if something interrupted them, the Shulk player may get stuck with the wrong art. The added accessibility in Smash Ultimate helps when playing characters like Shulk because the Monado selection is quick and easy. Why could they not do that to the Hero?

The other flaw and defiantly the bigger one is the fact that all the spells are listed only in words. This fact alone isn't a big problem, and it probably won't be in most situations, but the issues of having to work around the game’s language are extremely problematic. Imagine for a second that we see two Hero mains at a major tournament go head to head. Both can speak English, but only one of the two can read it because the other person has a different primary language, and there is no language both players can read. This alone could put one player at a major disadvantage if they use Command Selection often because they can't read what spell they're about to use. Take this other situation that happened to me earlier this morning. One person in my primary friend group is a Marth maining weaboo who plays the game in Japanese for the Japanese voice actor. He got the Hero, invited us over to play some Smash Bros, and after one match where we all played as the Hero, I stuck with him, but I couldn't read the command selection. This is all something that can be changed in the settings by the way. Changing the language is essentially "[COLOR=3366CC]How to f*ck with a Hero main 101[/COLOR]". I recommended the possibility of using icons alongside the words which are universal regardless of language, but I don't know if that is going to happen at this point. This type of stuff seriously needs to be accounted for in tournaments by the way, because without either a ban on the Hero or consistency in the language used, people will be able to exploit this to their heart's content, and Hero mains could suffer greatly.
And how would you make a selection of 21 different movements in a comfortable way and that is not broken

Yeah, I am fine with the RNG too and find the character far from being the broken fighter people are claiming it to be.

And honestly, there are people who just want to rant to cause problem at times.
Well, I think the RNG is just what balances the hero and this makes him far from being broken
 
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Teeb147

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
10,624
Well, I think the RNG is just what balances the hero and this makes him far from being broken
What competitive people dont like isn't really the 'broken' aspect, but that someone could win because they randomly got thwack or a crit while they had oomph, taking a stock at like 40% or less on light characters. (etc)

But really, it wouldn't be something that can be relied on. Someone would have to be good with the character to go far in a tourney.
 
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TheTrueBrawler

Smash Demon
Joined
Jul 16, 2018
Messages
817
Location
Mystery
And how would you make a selection of 21 different movements in a comfortable way and that is not broken
The idea of it selecting four different moves randomly for the player to select isn't inherently bad, but there needs to be like some sort of directional input system so that scrolling isn't taking up too much time. It's unnecessarily slow.
 
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Teeb147

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
10,624
The idea of it selecting four different moves randomly for the player to select isn't inherently bad, but there needs to be like some sort of directional input system so that scrolling isn't taking up too much time. It's unnecessarily slow.
If you ignore the third option, then it's just one direction (up or down) for the bulk of the options (up wraps around).
I do find it pretty far from the charcter tho.
 

NomadLuminary

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Messages
910
Location
Alberta
If you ignore the third option, then it's just one direction (up or down) for the bulk of the options (up wraps around).
I do find it pretty far from the charcter tho.
Honestly how I manage the down b so far is in a couple of scenarios (not taking any special to account)

When opponent on the ground: look at only the first two options. If it isnt worth it, cancel it out and continue your day.

When opponent is off the stage: same as above except use long range spells or time to buff and heal.

When opponent loses a stock: read all four options and buff and heal accordingly.

This made it way easier for me to use the down b in a more optimal manner.
 

Tree Gelbman

100 Percent Done
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
15,352
My only complaint so far is that I feel he's kind of someone who is heavily hurt by how telegraphed he does is. Basic attacks? Telegraphed like ****. Command Menu? Super telegraphed.

I think that's ultimately the thing that hurts him most Competitive or not.
 

meleebrawler

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
8,156
Location
Canada, Quebec
NNID
meleebrawler
3DS FC
2535-3888-1548
It would be nice if the menu popped up above Hero's head instead of or in addition to his percentage, like Cloud's limit.
 

Izanagi97

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Messages
1,477
Location
Cincinnati, OH
Switch FC
SW-2051-8893-9128
Welp, after watching that one video about the music, something tells me that Yggdrasil's Altar will probably be banned not because of issues with the stage itself, but more because of issues with the music.
 

TheYungLink

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 29, 2018
Messages
1,454
Speaking of the music, I'm still bummed that we never got the orchestrated versions of the music after all, only the midi versions. Looks like the grand, sweeping version of Adventure we heard in the trailer was only for the trailer.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Speaking of the music, I'm still bummed that we never got the orchestrated versions of the music after all, only the midi versions. Looks like the grand, sweeping version of Adventure we heard in the trailer was only for the trailer.
Honestly, I was worried about the idea of getting just two songs and on MIDI form.

But I am actually fine with the MIDIs since we got more songs than I was expecting.

And the spirits choice was pretty cool even if it is clear how the focus is mostly on DQXIS. I want to believe that Toriyama was easier to negotiate with, he seems cooler than the composer.
 

Sigran101

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
3,070
Location
The Robo Center
NNID
Sigran101
I really wasn't expecting this, but Hero is definitely my new main! I don't know why, but he just fits me so perfectly. All of a sudden I'm consistently 3-0ing level 9's in under a minute. Joker and Ridley will always be my favorites, but Hero is my best character by far now.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I really wasn't expecting this, but Hero is definitely my new main! I don't know why, but he just fits me so perfectly. All of a sudden I'm consistently 3-0ing level 9's in under a minute. Joker and Ridley will always be my favorites, but Hero is my best character by far now.
Tbf, my mains are basically the characters from my favourite videogame series which happen to be in Smash.

Those right now being Metroid and DQ, with only Crash Bandicoot being the one missing at the moment.

And so far, I am awesome with every Metroid rep except ZSS and the Hero which is an awesome coincidence.
 

TheYungLink

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 29, 2018
Messages
1,454
I know some people are extremely upset (I'm only mildly, but have since gotten accustomed to it) about the random spells of Command Selection but I saw this comment regarding it that made me laugh.
Screenshot_20190731-130724_Chrome.jpg
 

thirsty-pocket

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
702
my opinion probably doesn't mean much since I'm just a casual who plays one-on-one against level 7 CPU Fighters, and occasionally my friends, But I've had so much fun playing as hero. I'm of the mind that I wish we could go back to having more traditional characters as opposed to having a gimmick on every character to make them worthy of adding to the game, But Heroes gimmick is the most fun I've had with a character in Smash.

playing against someone with quick projectiles is a nightmare though.

Side note, the hype is made me want to play more Dragon Quest, so I've started Dragon Quest 4, unfortunately I can only play the NES version, but That doesn't bother me too much. I may need a guide though, at the very least for knowing who can equip what. don't want to waste 5000 gold again on something my character can't use.
I only bought one of the mii costunes, Veronica, because I like how that costume looks.

I love how the slime hat looks but I've never once bought a hat in smash bros, they seem like a complete ripoff to me considering they are the same price as a full outfit.
As someone who loves miis both in and out of Smash, my biggest issue with Mii costume DLC Is that it's always based off another character. it usually looks dumb, and it makes people salty when their playable character gets in as a Mii costume only, Earning Mii Fighters more contempt than they deserve. I want more cool looking stuff like the vampire garb Not just cos play. But at least some of the DQ costumes look pretty cool.
 
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