Heroes Draw Near. Command? (Hero Social Thread)

[Brother AJ]

Because sometimes Smash trailers need something fitting and presentable for a character's trailer. Joker's also featured a song that ultimately wasn't in the final game for no particular reason.

Still, at least Joker got decent tracks. I just don’t get it. It’s more presentable for the series to get proper tracks in the actual game don’t you think? I can’t even imagine how that conversation went...

Sakurai: Say, can we have the orchestrated tracks for The Hero?

***head: Yes, BUT ONLY FOR THE REVEAL TRAILER! I don’t want my masterpieces in your ****ty party game.

Sakurai: That seems a bit illogica-

***head: SCREW YOUR LOGIC I HAVE MONEY!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

At least the Japanese fans are happy with the midi tracks for nostalgia reasons.

Meanwhile, FF7 is still stuck with only two tracks. Doesn't help that Uematsu hasn't been with Square very much lately.

 

[Brother AJ]

At least the Japanese fans are happy with the midi tracks for nostalgia reasons.

Meanwhile, FF7 is still stuck with only two tracks. Doesn't help that Uematsu hasn't been with Square very much lately.

I mean, I think they’re passable. Those tracks in the trailer were just so amazing though. It made me excited for a character I knew next to nothing about. It made me want to play DQ! Which is on the list btw...

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Unpopular opinion but I actually kinda prefer the Midi versions. Reminds me of the old days of JRPG's.

 

[meleebrawler]

Unpopular opinion but I actually kinda prefer the Midi versions. Reminds me of the old days of JRPG's.

Also gives series newcomers something to look forward to when they go and try the games.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Unpopular opinion but I actually kinda prefer the Midi versions. Reminds me of the old days of JRPG's.

I think midi suits some songs better than others. IMO, Ole Sylvando is far better suited to midi than an orchestral rendition.

 

[Munchi]

I think midi suits some songs better than others. IMO, Ole Sylvando is far better suited to midi than an orchestral rendition.

I agree there are some tracks that are better midi and others that are better orchestrated

 

[Arrei]

Is it just me or is the Swoosh level of Hero's recovery really awkward to use? Feels like a significant portion of its added recovery distance is spent drifting downward during the charge-up, so that there's a pretty small distance where Woosh is not enough but Kaswoosh isn't necessary yet. I've SDed numerous times already going for a Swoosh when I thought it was enough only to come up short.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Is it just me or is the Swoosh level of Hero's recovery really awkward to use? Feels like a significant portion of its added recovery distance is spent drifting downward during the charge-up, so that there's a pretty small distance where Woosh is not enough but Kaswoosh isn't necessary yet. I've SDed numerous times already going for a Swoosh when I thought it was enough only to come up short.

Swoosh is really useful. It’s meant to be used for horizontal recoveries.

Kaswoosh is the one where you charge (like one second) to travel far.

The one I’m finding no use for is Woosh, other than oos options.
I actually feel like air-dodge covers the same distance as Woosh, but I have to analyze it more.

 

[~The Koopa King~]

i hate that there exists people who act like Hero's worse than he actually is

players(pro's and casuals alike)simply labeling as a low tier gimmick riddled character whose only good for playing silly goofy matches with friends

his command down b isn't gonna lead to his downfall...i think that part of him makes him unique and really fun to play among the cast but i can see why some pro's might think he'll never go far with that in his tool kit

i don't understand why they wanna talk trash about him this early though

with all that aside i really think he's an enjoyable character to play as and his down b has a lot to do with that

 

[NomadLuminary]

i hate that there exists people who act like Hero's worse than he actually is

players(pro's and casuals alike)simply labeling as a low tier gimmick riddled character whose only good for playing silly goofy matches with friends

his command down b isn't gonna lead to his downfall...i think that part of him makes him unique and really fun to play among the cast but i can see why some pro's might think he'll never go far with that in his tool kit

i don't understand why they wanna talk trash about him this early though

with all that aside i really think he's an enjoyable character to play as and his down b has a lot to do with that

Remember when Joker was deemed as mid tier at best

 

[Troykv]

Remember when Joker was deemed as mid tier at best

The best way a character can get higher tiers it's through results after all.

 

[Arrei]

Swoosh is really useful. It’s meant to be used for horizontal recoveries.

Kaswoosh is the one where you charge (like one second) to travel far.

The one I’m finding no use for is Woosh, other than oos options.
I actually feel like air-dodge covers the same distance as Woosh, but I have to analyze it more.

Woosh is pretty close to his air jump in height gain, plus a little more. I've found myself in a lot of situations where I just need a little push to get to the ledge, and it's also safer than jumping to the ledge since jumping doesn't ledge snap right at the apex.

I hadn't considered that Swoosh would enable greater horizontal distance, though. I guess I have used it to fake out edgeguards a few times.

 

[~The Koopa King~]

The best way a character can get higher tiers it's through results after all.

*Looks at K.Rool and sighs*

 

[Neosonic97]

Here's a fun fact you may not have noticed.

Did you know that when Hero charges his Smash attacks, it plays the sound effect that happens whenever the player attacks in Dragon Quest? It's very quiet but it's there.

 

[Munchi]

You have seen some player of hero interensante in competitive and I the best I have seen is Parappa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrIr0yD8EJI

Here's a fun fact you may not have noticed.

Did you know that when Hero charges his Smash attacks, it plays the sound effect that happens whenever the player attacks in Dragon Quest? It's very quiet but it's there.

Curious

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

It's official now. My favorite alternate costume for Hero is the 6th one. I use that one in Level 9 CPU Tournaments. Also, I finally got over my hatred for Ness.

 

[SleuthMechanism]

So one thing i gotta say that annoys me in particular about all the whining about this character who's most likely average/mid tier at best is neutral special.
As a samus player i see people claim "it's like charge shot but better OMG IT'S SUCH A RIDICULOUS OP MOVE AAAAAA" but they're flat out wrong there.

The frizz family of spells IMO is hero's best designed and balanced move i could write paragraphs of praise for and here's why.
For one, going back to the charge shot comparison, yes it does more damage and kills earlier than charge shot. it also charges up fully faster but you're ignoring what it trades in exchange for these strengths if you think it's this flat out upgrade that is "broken". For one, though kafrizz may charge faster a big disadvantage to it is that you have to charge it all in one go. if you cancel it mid-charge, hero has to charge it up all over again from scratch whilst other chargable projectiles like samus's charge beam for example can have their charge stored at any point allowing them to freely continue charging it at any point in the match.

This honestly makes it a lot less consistent to obtain than a full charged samus shot i'd say with hero you're likely to only be able to get one chance per stock in most matchups maybe two if you're particularly lucky/focus entirely on neutral b without going for potential menu buffs or anything whenever you're given a free moment to breathe.
Secondly, kafrizz takes up a massive ammount of mp on a character that greatly depends on their mp guage to do anything worthwhile which means this move comes with the large risk of potentially wasting a large ammount of hero's key resources if it misses or gets blocked so it can't ust be thrown out as carelessly as other chargable projectiles. and thirdly, kafrizz really.. isn't all that fast, it's not slow but.. it really isn't super fast making it rather reactable unless used at point blank range meaning this is a move that rewards smart decisions and frame trapping but greatly punishes reckless use of it. It has a high ammount of reward when succesful but comes with a significant risk(another risk being in addition to the mp cost that you lose the very threat of kafrizz itself meaning the opponent no longer has to fear you/[which is another mistake i see alot of players make against this character: they respect hero way too much despite his overall sluggish nature which in turn lets hero get away with way more stuff than they normally should])

In conclusion, kafrizz is a well-crafted and unique projectile move that I hope remains untouched

 

[~The Koopa King~]

i hope the pro's learn that hero's fine and they don't just disregard him due to his down b

 

[Jade_Rock]

I think we'll end up in a KRool or little Mac(smash4) situation where people complain, he gets nerfed and sucks forever.

The one paid dlc newcomer that hasn't been kinda broken when they first released lol.

 

[Teeb147]

Since the Rng stuff has been such a big thing, maybe nintendo and sakurai will know about it easily enough and nerf a few things (like crits, whack/thwack, and maybe magic burst), but even with the rng stuff, i dont think hero is good enough to be really annoying. If anything it'll maybe just make the matches more entertaining.

So one thing i gotta say that annoys me in particular about all the whining about this character who's most likely average/mid tier at best is neutral special.
As a samus player i see people claim "it's like charge shot but better OMG IT'S SUCH A RIDICULOUS OP MOVE AAAAAA" but they're flat out wrong there.

The frizz family of spells IMO is hero's best designed and balanced move i could write paragraphs of praise for and here's why.
For one, going back to the charge shot comparison, yes it does more damage and kills earlier than charge shot. it also charges up fully faster but you're ignoring what it trades in exchange for these strengths if you think it's this flat out upgrade that is "broken". For one, though kafrizz may charge faster a big disadvantage to it is that you have to charge it all in one go. if you cancel it mid-charge, hero has to charge it up all over again from scratch whilst other chargable projectiles like samus's charge beam for example can have their charge stored at any point allowing them to freely continue charging it at any point in the match.

This honestly makes it a lot less consistent to obtain than a full charged samus shot i'd say with hero you're likely to only be able to get one chance per stock in most matchups maybe two if you're particularly lucky/focus entirely on neutral b without going for potential menu buffs or anything whenever you're given a free moment to breathe.
Secondly, kafrizz takes up a massive ammount of mp on a character that greatly depends on their mp guage to do anything worthwhile which means this move comes with the large risk of potentially wasting a large ammount of hero's key resources if it misses or gets blocked so it can't ust be thrown out as carelessly as other chargable projectiles. and thirdly, kafrizz really.. isn't all that fast, it's not slow but.. it really isn't super fast making it rather reactable unless used at point blank range meaning this is a move that rewards smart decisions and frame trapping but greatly punishes reckless use of it. It has a high ammount of reward when succesful but comes with a significant risk(another risk being in addition to the mp cost that you lose the very threat of kafrizz itself meaning the opponent no longer has to fear you/[which is another mistake i see alot of players make against this character: they respect hero way too much despite his overall sluggish nature which in turn lets hero get away with way more stuff than they normally should])

In conclusion, kafrizz is a well-crafted and unique projectile move that I hope remains untouched

You can hold the charges like samus for neutral b, but by the levels, and it charges very fast to frizzle (level 2), but gettting to kafrizz does take more, and a lot of mp, and it slower, so yeah i dont see a problem with it if people block it it's big waste for hero, andi t's not that hard to block. Hero is also slow so it's hard to set up a lot of things, but when you do knock them away there's time to charge it.

A lot of people were complaining about side-b fully charged, and it's true that it's incredibly strong, but it also takes a ton of mp too, and if you see someone charging it then just block or dodge because they can't hold the charge. But i do think it could be cool if sakurai toned down the power of it, as well as make it less costly on mp. I dont like to use it because it basically acts like a very strong smash attack but you waste a lot of mp if it's blocked or dodged.

 

[SKX31]

Since the Rng stuff has been such a big thing, maybe nintendo and sakurai will know about it easily enough and nerf a few things (like crits, whack/thwack, and maybe magic burst), but even with the rng stuff, i dont think hero is good enough to be really annoying. If anything it'll maybe just make the matches more entertaining.

As for the RNG stuff, I have a couple thoughts which aren't discussed a lot:

First, I think it'd be for the best if people started to group together spells. It makes it easier to guess what kind of spell's going to come up in general. Like putting Sizz, Sizzle, Bang and Kaboom into one category since they're straightforward projectiles. They have 20 (Sizz, Bang) and 16 (Sizzle, Kaboom) % chance of appearing respectively, and the combos Sizz / Sizzle and Bang / Kaboom can't happen on the same roll. Effectively, it means that those four spells are semi-reliable: Hero has a little more than a 1/3 chance to roll a straightforward projectile.

On a similar note: the offense buffs (Oomph, Psyche Up, Acceleratle) - all share the same relative odds of appearing (16 %) and can all appear on the same roll. In effect, their chance approaches 40-50 % on a roll.

Other groupings I'd suggest:

Disable / Stuns: Kacrackle Slash, Snooze, (Hatchet Man)
Insane Damage / Instakill: Magic Burst, Kamikaze, Thwack, Whack, Flame Slash (Hatchet Man)
Defense: Bounce, Zoom, Heal
Really niche / near useless spells: Hocus Pocus, Kaclang, Metal Slash

That's six categories in total. Not perfect categories either, but it's much easier to keep track of 6 categories of spells instead of 21 spells.

Also: Magic Burst does stupid damage even when Hero's Mana is near zero. We're talking 13-ish damage at 3 mana, 30 damage at 45-ish mana and 55-65 damage at 100 mana. If anything, that could use a damage / knockback scaling nerf and / or lag nerf.

Otherwise, I've been having not many issues with Hero really. My only other nerf would be slight nerf to mana gain. One could also argue that crit chance should scale with opponents damage like Whack / Thwack already do (with 1/8 chance at a certain %), but too many nerfs and it's going to be overkill.

 

[Teeb147]

As for the RNG stuff, I have a couple thoughts which aren't discussed a lot:

First, I think it'd be for the best if people started to group together spells. It makes it easier to guess what kind of spell's going to come up in general. Like putting Sizz, Sizzle, Bang and Kaboom into one category since they're straightforward projectiles. They have 20 (Sizz, Bang) and 16 (Sizzle, Kaboom) % chance of appearing respectively, and the combos Sizz / Sizzle and Bang / Kaboom can't happen on the same roll. Effectively, it means that those four spells are semi-reliable: Hero has a little more than a 1/3 chance to roll a straightforward projectile.

On a similar note: the offense buffs (Oomph, Psyche Up, Acceleratle) - all share the same relative odds of appearing (16 %) and can all appear on the same roll. In effect, their chance approaches 40-50 % on a roll.

Other groupings I'd suggest:

Disable / Stuns: Kacrackle Slash, Snooze, (Hatchet Man)
Insane Damage / Instakill: Magic Burst, Kamikaze, Thwack, Whack, Flame Slash (Hatchet Man)
Defense: Bounce, Zoom, Heal
Really niche / near useless spells: Hocus Pocus, Kaclang, Metal Slash

That's six categories in total. Not perfect categories either, but it's much easier to keep track of 6 categories of spells instead of 21 spells.

Also: Magic Burst does stupid damage even when Hero's Mana is near zero. We're talking 13-ish damage at 3 mana, 30 damage at 45-ish mana and 55-65 damage at 100 mana. If anything, that could use a damage / knockback scaling nerf and / or lag nerf.

Otherwise, I've been having not many issues with Hero really. My only other nerf would be slight nerf to mana gain. One could also argue that crit chance should scale with opponents damage like Whack / Thwack already do (with 1/8 chance at a certain %), but too many nerfs and it's going to be overkill.

I always like categories, but what's the point of it in this case?

I kind of lump them for how they are and their speed, so i put bang and kaboom with whack and snooze, because they're all a little slow and you need to catch the other person off guard or in the air somehow. Sizz and Sizzle are so fast that i put them in a league of their own.

I think magic burst just puts out a big hit box for too long and can ko early, and in a lot of cases is just overly good even if it uses all mp. It's still fun tho :D I think if it didnt have as much ko power it'd be fine because it's still be fun but not op.

 

[Deleted member]

I want to imagine that the DQ8 Hero entered the world of Smash Ultimate in a similar way to this:

 

[~The Koopa King~]

it feels awful using hero against characters that just don't give you any time whatsoever to think....

 

[helloiamhere]

The midi music is awful but the DQ8 world map theme is so bangin that it survives the downgrade.

 

[TheYungLink]

The midi music is awful but the DQ8 world map theme is so bangin that it survives the downgrade.

Well it's the version that plays when riding around on a Great Sabercat. That version sounds good no matter which version you listen to.

 

[TriforceBun]

it feels awful using hero against characters that just don't give you any time whatsoever to think....

In these cases, I rely on quicker moves like jab, up tilt, Whoosh, Zap, and blocking/grabbing. But yeah, it can really be a pain. If it's someone like Pikachu, Bounce can help throw off his game a bit.

 

[Firox]

Ok, Heroes, my brother plays Link and claims that he got killed at 0% center stage by a fully powered Magical Blast. Is that actually possible?! Some factors to consider was that the Hero was enraged with 140% damage and he was airborne at the time, trying to come down with a FF Nair.

 

[Jade_Rock]

Ok, Heroes, my brother plays Link and claims that he got killed at 0% center stage by a fully powered Magical Blast. Is that actually possible?! Some factors to consider was that the Hero was enraged with 140% damage and he was airborne at the time, trying to come down with a FF Nair.

At Max mp, with rage I believe it. Hero needs a lot of tweaking. Some of his A moves are pretty slow, and same specials are kinda broken so...yeah.

 

[shinhed-echi]

What do you guys think about having MP Burst revamped like this:

Every multihit except the last won’t make opponent flinch, but the last one will be the same explosive blast.

Hero however will be in super armor the whole time so he doesn’t get interrupted with a jab or something.

And a little vacuum effect is also applied so that running away isn’t that easy (But very doable)

 

[Jade_Rock]

What do you guys think about having MP Burst revamped like this:

Every multihit except the last won’t make opponent flinch, but the last one will be the same explosive blast.

Hero however will be in super armor the whole time so he doesn’t get interrupted with a jab or something.

And a little vacuum effect is also applied so that running away isn’t that easy (But very doable)

1. Yes this is fine
2. Maybe. Super armor may be a little much. Can. He still be flinched on startup and lose all his mp?
3. No, this is just broken. It already covers most of the stage. A vacuum gives it the entire stage.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...st_v_re-entered_the_japanese_charts_this_week

I think that supporters for Madason and his brides are going to get an uptick from this and the movie.

 

[Slime Master]

What do you guys think about having MP Burst revamped like this:

Every multihit except the last won’t make opponent flinch, but the last one will be the same explosive blast.

Hero however will be in super armor the whole time so he doesn’t get interrupted with a jab or something.

And a little vacuum effect is also applied so that running away isn’t that easy (But very doable)

As is I believe it lasts, like, 1 frame longer than regular ledge get-up's intangibility. I feel like it would mostly be pretty manageable if you just shortened the duration slightly so that's not the case. These are pretty solid ideas as well though.

 

[Deleted member]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...st_v_re-entered_the_japanese_charts_this_week

I think that supporters for Madason and his brides are going to get an uptick from this and the movie.

Im surprised by their way of protesting, from my understanding the movie really messed up big time.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Im surprised by their way of protesting, from my understanding the movie really messed up big time.

Protesting? I haven’t heard anything negative from this movie. Then again, it came out like yesterday so I haven’t heard a whole lot about it.
I thought the spike in interest was because of people watching the movie and (re)gaining interest in the game that inspired it.

As is I believe it lasts, like, 1 frame longer than regular ledge get-up's intangibility. I feel like it would mostly be pretty manageable if you just shortened the duration slightly so that's not the case. These are pretty solid ideas as well though.

That’s reasonable too. People are mad because of the range it covers. But if I recall correctly, Link’s bombs covered a huge area before the game’s official release. And it was a devastating edgeguard tool.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Ok, Heroes, my brother plays Link and claims that he got killed at 0% center stage by a fully powered Magical Blast. Is that actually possible?! Some factors to consider was that the Hero was enraged with 140% damage and he was airborne at the time, trying to come down with a FF Nair.

I was curious so i tested it, a Hero with max rage (150%) using Magic Burst (100mp) will send Link (0%) flying 12 units vertically and about 12 units horizontally (no DI). Link being airborne is almost inconsequential (i tested with both a grounded and airborne Link, with some angle variations and the result is basically the same).

The top blastzone in Final Destination is at about 17 units high so I tested it on the stage with the lowest top blastzone (that i know of), Warioware, and it doesn't kill either.

With Link at 25-30% tho, it's totally possible.

 

[Munchi]

What is your favorite hero of those who are. Mine that of DQ8 8 (Eight)

 

[Lamperouge]

What is your favorite hero of those who are. Mine that of DQ8 8 (Eight)

Eight has the coolest design out of all of them, IMO. I've also only had exposure to his game of origin so naturally I gravitate more towards using him.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2019/08/feature_best_nintendo_ds_games
>Dragon Quest V is ranked 3rd highest
Well, if that isn't coincidental.