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Data Hero-King's Council: Video Analysis

roymustang1990-

Smash Ace
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Messages
772
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Volcanic plains
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RoyMustang1990
So, a handful of recent random FGs I decided to upload. Couple wins and a loss, tried to just go for some matches that I felt were decently close and a fair representation of my current Marth, who I picked up probably a week or two ago. Didn't main him in any other games, which I think might be an asset in some ways, but I'm clearly adjusting to a less aggressive playstyle and trying to rely on some more well-informed reads and safer punishes.

Forgive the quality and occasional jankiness, obviously not a legitimate capture setup. (The last two actually have higher quality settings.)


An okay Shulk here, I get kind of destroyed by his side smashes (27% uncharged in the right stance is absolutely absurd) and a few counters (I know his last forever but I still find myself underestimating it now and again).


Me getting destroyed by a pretty real Fox. Those jabs, those Usmashes. A few DB input ****ups here, for some reason my timing on getting those out quick is the first thing to get ****ed up in any amount of lag, so I could have made some more out of those.


Clearly some spacing issues against this Mario, though I'm kind of baffled that a few of those whiffed instead of tipped. Maybe just overestimating Mario's height or sword graphic.

My general critical thoughts about my game right now:
  • Less rushdown, more patient selections.
  • Implement Nair and Utilt better, which are at times non-existent in my play. I know Nair is a superior option to Fair on rising opponents and to wall people out over a slightly longer period, but often I just get tunneled into Fair spacing that I don't use those tools as well as I could.
  • Far too many silly Usmash attempts, and slightly too many silly sidesmash attempts.
  • I need to figure out what to do better against opponents on the ledge. I think I maintain stage control well but the rewards seem to be offstage, I'm not maximizing opportunities from them on the ledge because of baffling smash attack habits.
So, a handful of recent random FGs I decided to upload. Couple wins and a loss, tried to just go for some matches that I felt were decently close and a fair representation of my current Marth, who I picked up probably a week or two ago. Didn't main him in any other games, which I think might be an asset in some ways, but I'm clearly adjusting to a less aggressive playstyle and trying to rely on some more well-informed reads and safer punishes.

Forgive the quality and occasional jankiness, obviously not a legitimate capture setup. (The last two actually have higher quality settings.)


An okay Shulk here, I get kind of destroyed by his side smashes (27% uncharged in the right stance is absolutely absurd) and a few counters (I know his last forever but I still find myself underestimating it now and again).


Me getting destroyed by a pretty real Fox. Those jabs, those Usmashes. A few DB input ****ups here, for some reason my timing on getting those out quick is the first thing to get ****ed up in any amount of lag, so I could have made some more out of those.


Clearly some spacing issues against this Mario, though I'm kind of baffled that a few of those whiffed instead of tipped. Maybe just overestimating Mario's height or sword graphic.

My general critical thoughts about my game right now:
  • Less rushdown, more patient selections.
  • Implement Nair and Utilt better, which are at times non-existent in my play. I know Nair is a superior option to Fair on rising opponents and to wall people out over a slightly longer period, but often I just get tunneled into Fair spacing that I don't use those tools as well as I could.
  • Far too many silly Usmash attempts, and slightly too many silly sidesmash attempts.
  • I need to figure out what to do better against opponents on the ledge. I think I maintain stage control well but the rewards seem to be offstage, I'm not maximizing opportunities from them on the ledge because of baffling smash attack habits.
Hmm,Call me crazy,but I could have sworn I encountered you once on For Glory mode before.Ican't seem to recall which character you were using at that time,but I do remember the name "bat shark". But anyways, I watched your videos and wanted to clique them in a non professional manner But you weren't looking for that kind of feedback anyways.
 

Ryzax

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 15, 2014
Messages
2
Sorry for the garbage gameplay 1st game of the day and it's against a weak opponent but the final smash to KO him had to be shared. Marth is still a great character, Just need to work on that spacing.

/watch?v=pRpY2xW5M2k - youtube

Crazy.
 

Locuan

D&D Obsessed
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 20, 2005
Messages
4,381
Location
San Antonio, TX
Sorry for the garbage gameplay 1st game of the day and it's against a weak opponent but the final smash to KO him had to be shared. Marth is still a great character, Just need to work on that spacing.

/watch?v=pRpY2xW5M2k - youtube

Crazy.
Hey there. First of all, welcome to Smashboards! I moved your thread into the appropriate location. As you can see this is our video analysis thread. Here you can post your videos and receive feedback from other Marth mains or Smashboards members. If you have any questions feel free to ask them to me via a private conversation.
 

BatShark

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
146
Location
NorCal
Hmm,Call me crazy,but I could have sworn I encountered you once on For Glory mode before.Ican't seem to recall which character you were using at that time,but I do remember the name "bat shark". But anyways, I watched your videos and wanted to clique them in a non professional manner But you weren't looking for that kind of feedback anyways.
Were you Marthing it up? I've actually encountered a surprising number of Marth dittos as of late. What was your tag?

Also I'll take any feedback I can get, I'm certainly not at the level where a pro is the only one that can give me advice, and I'm beginning to wonder if I'll get any responses, maybe I posted too many matches? Wanted to give a sampler.
 
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LordShade67

Smash Ace
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Might as well put up a "quick" one. I feel like I could do better and making mistakes, but hey. Constructive criticism is da bess, so why not. :p
 

roymustang1990-

Smash Ace
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Jan 10, 2014
Messages
772
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Volcanic plains
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RoyMustang1990
]
Were you Marthing it up? I've actually encountered a surprising number of Marth dittos as of late. What was your tag?

Also I'll take any feedback I can get, I'm certainly not at the level where a pro is the only one that can give me advice, and I'm beginning to wonder if I'll get any responses, maybe I posted too many matches? Wanted to give a sampler.
I always run a marth/ Lucina on For Glory.Ive been trying other characters though.

Also,My tag name is the same as my screen name here,just without the numbers.

After some searching,I actually found the replay of my Shulk versus your marth on luigi mansions( omega stage). I'm not sure we ever marth ditto since I think you left after that game.

Here's picture proof proof
http://m.imgur.com/IJXmINF

And I even uploaded it on youtube,if that doesn't bother you.The video quality is just awful.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pc97etbSEjc


I'm not a pro either but of the three videos I watched. The only advice I could think of is:

- Utilize his d tilt more.Its great for stopping approaches. They can also lead to landing a free throw/dancing blade. :)

-Use more short dashes with marth. I use them as a substitute to rolling and for baiting out attacks.My favorite part is baiting out ledge attacks and earning a free f smash,sometimes tippered afterwards This is character specific though.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cIiqlIykpCs

- I also think your double jumping too early when recovering back on stage. That only makes you more susceptible to getting off stage punished easier IMO.
 
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BatShark

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
146
Location
NorCal
]
I always run a marth/ Lucina on For Glory.Ive been trying other characters though.

Also,My tag name is the same as my screen name here,just without the numbers.

After some searching,I actually found the replay of my Shulk versus your marth on luigi mansions( omega stage). I'm not sure we ever marth ditto since I think you left after that game.

Here's picture proof proof
http://m.imgur.com/IJXmINF

And I even uploaded it on youtube,if that doesn't bother you.The video quality is just awful.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pc97etbSEjc


I'm not a pro either but of the three videos I watched. The only advice I could think of is:

- Utilize his d tilt more.Its great for stopping approaches. They can also lead to landing a free throw/dancing blade. :)

-Use more short dashes with marth. I use them as a substitute to rolling and for baiting out attacks.My favorite part is baiting out ledge attacks and earning a free f smash,sometimes tippered afterwards This is character specific though.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cIiqlIykpCs

- I also think your double jumping too early when recovering back on stage. That only makes you more susceptible to getting off stage punished easier IMO.
Haha, damn that was a tense match. My Marth was hella sloppy at that point though, silly new things like landing too much with Dairs and poorly spaced Fairs to get shield grabbed. And the most bafflingly stupid reads, oi.

Good call on the early double jumps, I think that's just a bad overall player habit on my part. And I will try some better ground game like you mentioned, I don't capitalize on ledge situations nearly as much as I could. Thanks!
 

dizney

Smash Cadet
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I don't have any real 1v1's up yet, but I did make a Marth video showcasing some cool moments while playing through for glory if anyone is interested:

My most used combo is probably down throw - bair - falling up air - up tilt/up smash
 
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Conda

aka COBBS - Content Creator (Toronto region)
Joined
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Toronto
Hey marth mains. I'm not a Marth main myself, but I dabble. Here's a video where I use him in For Glory, give me your tips. The Marth forums are thankfully one of the most helpful skill-improvement wise.

Marth play at 18:00

Of course since it's my video, there's decent chatter about the game and commentary of the match
 

Random4811

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@ W Wilyen it is not a combo in Smash 4. People can DI out of it; act accordingly to escape.
People can double stick DI out of it in Melee. It had its hayday, now it is just something that will rarely work and raise hype levels to maximum.
 

Locuan

D&D Obsessed
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People can double stick DI out of it in Melee. It had its hayday, now it is just something that will rarely work and raise hype levels to maximum.
Thanks for the notice, I should be a bit more specific regarding Smash 4. You have plenty of options to respond from a setup such as this in Smash 4. Air dodging being one of them.
 

Emblem Lord

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Rip me to shreds guys my body is ready. This is online play but still, comment as if it weren't.

I haven't looked at these yet on my own to analyze it. Going to work now. Will be back to read.
 
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Random4811

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Wait, at 5:21 you rolled and grabbed in the middle of the roll animation? How did you do that?
Roll cancel grab

@emblemlord
Other than some questionable rolls in the first frew minutes, your Marth play is pretty damn good. Like many other top Marth players, you could come to learn to use counter a little better, but I cant tell what lag was preventing you from doing. I'll have a full analysis for you later.
 
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Boo Jr.

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And how do you perform it with Marth? It seems I cant do that, even at 1/4 speed...
 

Random4811

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And how do you perform it with Marth? It seems I cant do that, even at 1/4 speed...
Roll in a direction and immediately try to grab. Its pretty easy to do. One of Marth's better tools is actually the pivot roll-cancel grab.
 

Boo Jr.

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I still trying but nothing...
Also, in another thread is said to "Forward or Back -> R -> Z/L or A", while on the video posted (on the same thread) it say "forward + shield (and hold it) then the attack button", not the grab button.

I'm confused =/
 

Random4811

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I still trying but nothing...
Also, in another thread is said to "Forward or Back -> R -> Z/L or A", while on the video posted (on the same thread) it say "forward + shield (and hold it) then the attack button", not the grab button.

I'm confused =/
You need to roll and then immediately cancel it with a grab. Its kind of tricky at first, but a hellofalot easier than perfect pivoting.
 

Novaseer

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Messages
43

Rip me to shreds guys my body is ready. This is online play but still, comment as if it weren't.

I haven't looked at these yet on my own to analyze it. Going to work now. Will be back to read.
I don't know how much advice I can offer but I'll try. During the first match you short hopped near Link a lot for spacing/baiting, but the Link player punished this on reaction most times through his hookshot. You seemed to realize this though and stopped short hopping like that in later matches.

Spotdodging is generally a bad option against Link. Too many of his attacks are meaty (10:15) or hit multiple times (12:52 ). If the worry is about the hookshot grab, I've found success with rolling. Link's grab is so slow it can be punished even after an away roll.

At times like 6:50, 9:43, and 11:10 an off-stage counter would've gimped Link's spin attack recovery. Challenging his Up-B like this would've forced him to rely on hookshot more and recover high, opening him up to F-airs.

Most everything else in the match looked solid. I especially liked the patient ledge traps. High-level Marth matches are so hard to find so I hope you upload more. If you disagree with anything in my analysis please tell me, as I'm still learning.
 
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H-O-G

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Rip me to shreds guys my body is ready. This is online play but still, comment as if it weren't.

I haven't looked at these yet on my own to analyze it. Going to work now. Will be back to read.
Not much to truly say but you get defensive rather quickly and that is what I felt gave link the time to make a good comebck. U play much better when your offensive so try not go defensive to early if ur pressure is dominating.


Rip me to shreds guys my body is ready. This is online play but still, comment as if it weren't.

I haven't looked at these yet on my own to analyze it. Going to work now. Will be back to read.
Other than that I felt u played solid and adapted rather quickly. You r a very smart player.
 
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H-O-G

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Thank you for the notice and clean up

This is video of me fighting shiek. I am very aggressive so u will notice that I stayed in the fray and rarely gave myself time to become defensive or gather. This fight is on the 3ds, when I get my copy for wii u I will start using bids from that.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7NauucnRg38
 
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EternalFlame

Smash Ace
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Rip me to shreds guys my body is ready. This is online play but still, comment as if it weren't.

I haven't looked at these yet on my own to analyze it. Going to work now. Will be back to read.
That playstyle is certainly reminicent of defensive players, and possibly the latency made you play more like this, but otherwise you're fine xD You gimping is excellent (particularly like how you use Up B to try and stage spike and recover rather than BAir, Imma take note of that), the spacing was pretty good, and overall you kept yourself safe. The countering really didn't do you much favors though, and though not really a bad point per say, but there weren't as many setup attempts from you. Though your priority from how I can tell was to get them off stage and gimp them, so that in itself is fine xD

Dat Spike Doe xD

But seriously, nicely done as usual. I expect nothing less from ya

This is video of me fighting shiek. I am very aggressive so u will notice that I stayed in the fray and rarely gave myself time to become defensive or gather. This fight is on the 3ds, when I get my copy for wii u I will start using bids from that.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7NauucnRg38
That was an intense match xD You certainly pulled it through in the end, as that Shiek just could not get that final blow to finish the job.
 

Conda

aka COBBS - Content Creator (Toronto region)
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With commentary and all that jazz:

Also, I've started a series where I hop into the Replay Channel and give some useful and helpful commentary. Makes the replay channel less pointless - helps to have someone doing commentary and making things interesting.


Let me know what you think of the quality and commentary. Hope you all enjoy.
 

EternalFlame

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH3CBg-aiSk

plz help me! i know i messed up after the first stock head jump thing. just tell me what i'm doing wrong plz ):
The Diddy MU... that's a pretty harsh one it is. Diddy has not just the speed, but the projectiles to gimp/set you up into attacks of his own. Based on what I saw, I'll give what advice I can:

- The times you went for the full DB you'll need to make sure that every hit chains properly, as every additional swing adds more commitment on your part. Otherwise, it results in repeated punishment, as that Diddy demonstraited. What you can also do is purposefully stop midway (like with the DB setup) to make them react a certain way like air dodge then punish them.

- Two times you went for a hard read FSmash, but those are extremely risky as you know. Not that it is necessarily wrong the way you tried to read them, but just note that there are safer options to rack up the damage/get the kill. You'll need to weigh the risks, especially against a character that has two of Marth's weakpoints in his favor.

- Though I am unsure of which direction exactly, but there is a way to DI out of that setup Diddy kept going for. It seemed unlikely that he would go for anything else, so hopefully someone with better Diddy MU knowledge can tell you how to escape it. My best advice would be to shift between DI'ing left and right so the Diddy will have to guess on where to jump. You just need a moment to get that air dodge roll out and you'll be mostly fine.

- I'm sure you noticed how the Diddy did a few light hits in the air with the bananna or otherwise to get you into another attack like a grab. This tactic is based on your hesitation, and it can be escaped by double jumping. You could either use that momentum to go for a retreating FAir, cancel your air momentum with DB1 then followup (Air DB setup in other words xD), or SB yourself away. You also have similar tactics yourself, though its a choice if it fits your playstyle or not (My guide has that all there for ya on setups/combos section if you wish to read it).

+ To end on a better note, your item control was really good (I'mma need to take notes from you there xD), and you knew the method to get in.

You're on the right track to beating that MU though, so keep that practice up.

I'll watch it a few more times then edit in any more info I could give ya on the matches. But for now, I hope this will help ya out ^^

EDIT:
+ Those out of shield options are going to be your main points for keeping the spacing solid, and I saw you went for them at times which is great already. Marth when faced with an opponent faster than him will more likely be forced to play defensively, so mixing up between jump cancels +FAir/DS, grabs, or simply putting the shield down and going for a tilt (probably DTilt is your safest bet), so you can force your opponent to slow down on their agro. You already were playing it a bit, but I get the strangest feeling you'd agro if you had the chance - problem is Diddy makes that hard for any Marth to do.
 
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LoreLes

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW3Ag5ZXtZg

Vs Diddy Kong. This guy is like around our top 10 range in the local scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH3CBg-aiSk

plz help me! i know i messed up after the first stock head jump thing. just tell me what i'm doing wrong plz ):
As stated above this MU is hard for Marth but it was more of your mistakes in the match that hurt you more than the match up. Your main approaches consisted of DB and short hop fairs committing onto his shield and this was getting you punished way more than it should of been. What you want to do is space mid range with him and always try to maintain that, bait his banana game and read his movements. Keep your counter and dash attacks in check and don't abuse them.

Your spacing was decent to a point but you always committed right out of retreating Fairs with dash attack back into his shield. Your rolling was getting easy for him to read and he started to condition you to do it so he could get free punishes or banana set ups, so beware of that. Also watch those hard read fsmashes, it gets you killed.

Other than that your fundamentals with Marth are great just make sure you don't play so telegraphed to where it gets downloaded.
 
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Darklink401

Smash Master
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So I haven't seen any Marth combo videos for Smash 4. So I figured I might put this here. It's my first combo video, so it probably won't be that good, but hey XP
I just know that Marth is severely underestimated in Smash 4.

Feedback/criticism/tips would be welcomed XP
 
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EternalFlame

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So I haven't seen any Marth combo videos for Smash 4. So I figured I might put this here. It's my first combo video, so it probably won't be that good, but hey XP
I just know that Marth is severely underestimated in Smash 4.

Feedback/criticism/tips would be welcomed XP
No false advertising sir xD

But seriously, a lot of these are one hit wonders or just good reads on your part - not so much true combos by the game's standards. Though you did acknowledge it towards the end, and these were pretty good plays on your part xD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW3Ag5ZXtZg

Vs Diddy Kong. This guy is like around our top 10 range in the local scene.



As stated above this MU is hard for Marth but it was more of your mistakes in the match that hurt you more than the match up. Your main approaches consisted of DB and short hop fairs committing onto his shield and this was getting you punished way more than it should of been. What you want to do is space mid range with him and always try to maintain that, bait his banana game and read his movements. Keep your counter and dash attacks in check and don't abuse them.

Your spacing was decent to a point but you always committed right out of retreating Fairs with dash attack back into his shield. Your rolling was getting easy for him to read and he started to condition you to do it so he could get free punishes or banana set ups, so beware of that. Also watch those hard read fsmashes, it gets you killed.

Other than that your fundamentals with Marth are great just make sure you don't play so telegraphed to where it gets downloaded.
Good to see you're getting more active again in all this xD Your Marth experience will certainly help, especially since your fundamentals are much stronger than mine.

Can't wait to fight ya again this weekend so I can buff out those problem points, and preferrably, I fight you in a condition where I don't have any regrets on my end. To a true fight where we give it both of our alls ^^

Oh, impressive work on that Diddy btw xD
 

Darklink401

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No false advertising sir xD

But seriously, a lot of these are one hit wonders or just good reads on your part - not so much true combos by the game's standards. Though you did acknowledge it towards the end, and these were pretty good plays on your part xD


Good to see you're getting more active again in all this xD Your Marth experience will certainly help, especially since your fundamentals are much stronger than mine.

Can't wait to fight ya again this weekend so I can buff out those problem points, and preferrably, I fight you in a condition where I don't have any regrets on my end. To a true fight where we give it both of our alls ^^

Oh, impressive work on that Diddy btw xD
Yeah, I put it in the video decription as well.

It's just that, combo video, I feel is the general term for videos like that, cuz string video sounds f*cking weird.


Thanks tho ^^ And these were recent, so I wonder if you can notice any changes on my Marth playstyle ever since we played each other :3

BTW, I especially like what I can do to Shulk while using Marth. IDK, I just feel it's a very good matchup XP
 
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