Data Hero-King's Council: Video Analysis

[_Relapse_]

Another Mr.E video against Fox this time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmKxgvhZEKo

 

[Random4811]

Fighting these types of players are frustrating, I mean it doesn't help that it's netplay but still, any advice at all from what anyone can tell from my playstyle?

I can tell that you've done some reading on what you SHOULD do. Like, you had some nice Dancing Blade delays that worked really well for you.

Your biggest problem seems to be you arent thinking about what you're doing. There are so many times that you just throw out attacks with no real reason. like, when you dashed twoards falcon and did an upsmash like, 4 ft from his face, or when you threw out Fairs into nothing for no real reason.

You should be thinking the whole time you're playing. Before you throw something out, think about why you are doing it. What you are doing. What your options are afterwards. Is it safe?

You also need to learn your range and how long it takes for you to move. It seems a lot of your attacks were grossly overestimating Marth's range (to the point where its like, really? His range has never been that good.) and grossly underestimating how long it takes you to get somewhere. You commit to things super hard. (like "he's coming back from the ledge, I'm gonna fh fair him." then he moves on stage before you are even near him and you do it anyway, after he is far under and behind you.

You also need to learn to maintain spacing. You roll way too much, and when you arent being defensive, you're trying to rush down.

Another Mr.E video against Fox this time.

This is why M2K and Ken need to come back to Marth.

 

[Phoenon]

Yeah I have bad habits like throwing out Dash Cancel Up Smashes and still have a bit of a rolling problem, I'm just trying out a ton of new things and finding out what works since Smash is a very different type of fighter for me to play.

I throw out forward airs sometimes to try to space a bit and keep my opponent wary, most of the time trying to at least hit them near the tip and back off after to slowly rack up damage, I've just been playing him mostly as a defensive spacing character always keeping them at tip's reach if I can, I probably don't grab as much as I should though. When I do grab I usually just toss them to the nearest ledge or if at low percent down throw for an early up air combo, no idea if there's any other utilities for certain grab directions.

Also thanks a lot for all the advice GrubGrub, I've been using forward air to edgeguard so much since I've heard about it being DAGAWD move for Marth and usually use it over back air since it seems to have a much wider hitbox as opposed to back air's more...horizontal hitbox it would seem anyways. I'm still getting used to trying to punish things like dash attacks and air attacks out-of-shield, though it's very hard for me sometimes to tell if they're gonna end up behind me after it or not and I'll end up throwing some attack in the wrong direction with them being on the other side of me and looking like a wide open fool.

I'll try using full hop forward airs more too, I've had thoughts beforehand anyways of doing that and mixing it up by either doing a spaced neutral air tip after so they can't just out of shield punish me or just empty land grab them after, things similar to that anyways, I don't really use down air though aside from trying to spike because that landing lag is beyond atrocious.

 

[Emblem Lord]

When I watch Mr.E I do not see strong Marth gameplay. I see a good player making very hard reads that are successful about 80% of the time.

Hell, several times he ignores general fighting game know-how and puts himself in terrible situations. And he dies for it. His playstyle seems to be 100% instinct.

I don't think I can recommend watching him if you are trying to learn Marth.

 

[Victor Coelho]

Marth and Lucina are spacing-dependent characters, as Marth has always been. Your rolling costs you a lot in this video even though you don't see it, necessarily. At 0:57 you miss a d-smash and then instinctively rollback to avoid the punish, even though your opponent was in the corner of the stage. You need to seize stage control and keep it; don't back yourself into the corner. Giving up stage control is kind of like taking damage. Pretend to yourself that every time you move back toward a corner of the stage you're taking 3% damage. Then ask yourself if it's worth it to take 3% in this scenario to get away from your opponent. Sometimes, it will be, because there are no hard-and-fast rules in smash, but most of the time you'll find that standing your ground or just using walking spacing will be better for you.

Hey there! Thanks for the insight on my video

You're right, i need to hold my ground more and keep control of the space on my sword reach. Like you said, many of those rolls were instinctive and i could be much mor effective if i stayed in position and waited for my opponents actions and reacted propperly.
Will try to improve that. Thanks for the help!

 

[JaegerEC]

When I watch Mr.E I do not see strong Marth gameplay. I see a good player making very hard reads that are successful about 80% of the time.

Hell, several times he ignores general fighting game know-how and puts himself in terrible situations. And he dies for it. His playstyle seems to be 100% instinct.

I don't think I can recommend watching him if you are trying to learn Marth.

I completely agree. Guy makes awesome reads and is super good at adapting to his opponent mid-match, but he barely makes use of some of the things that actually make Marth not garbage in this game.

 

[BatShark]

I'm not actually sure I agree entirely about Mr. E's play. Far from an experienced Marth player, but my thoughts on his style...

• I think he plays a lot safer than you guys give him credit for. His Up B's offstage almost always sweet spot (the few that didn't he made up for by superior positioning after), he Fair pokes opponents in the corner and doesn't commit to things that get him shieldgrabbed. He uses Up B onstage quite a bit more than most Marths, and 90% of the time it's a very fast safety valve when he knows he's whiffed a landing aerial or is caught in the middle of a tough trap. He sometimes Fairs aggressively to push an edge-guarding opponent back. He's not whiffing a ton of bad smash attacks or anything. Really, I think he's doing a lot of things that are safer than you think.
  
• He uses Nair really well, generally. This is not something I'm seeing a ton of Marths in Smash 4 use as well quite yet, though I think it will get there.
• He makes smarter decisions than you think, and a lot of this is underscored by a fundamentally pretty sound Marth. His timing and spacing are pretty real, and those offstage counters are covering one of the few offstage options Fox has, even if they look silly when nothing is challenging them. (You'll notice he doesn't do it quite as much in other matchups.) There are a few moments that made me grimace, like get-up attack into an already shielding Fox just to die to the Dsmash, but I just don't agree that he's some lucky dude that runs on instinct and happens to derp into a ton of hard reads against good opponents.
• That's the other thing - that Fox he's playing is *good*. I actually found that video better than his match with M2K, who honestly got too cute and played a worse Diddy than I've seen in FG. He makes noticeable mistakes, but this his him hanging quite well with an absurdly well played Fox (who I happen to consider a top 5 character right now - Fox is MUCH better than the masses have realized yet.)

I don't think I disagree about watching him to learn Marth overall, but I also think there are a thing or two from his videos so far that players will be able to pick up. Just not sure this assessment is fair.

 

[Owangepuffs]

He's better than me, that's for sure. Still, why does he land with fair and dair? Old habits dying hard?

 

[Random4811]

He's better than me, that's for sure. Still, why does he land with fair and dair? Old habits dying hard?

Yeah, Im having that issue too.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I'm not actually sure I agree entirely about Mr. E's play. Far from an experienced Marth player, but my thoughts on his style...

• I think he plays a lot safer than you guys give him credit for. His Up B's offstage almost always sweet spot (the few that didn't he made up for by superior positioning after), he Fair pokes opponents in the corner and doesn't commit to things that get him shieldgrabbed. He uses Up B onstage quite a bit more than most Marths, and 90% of the time it's a very fast safety valve when he knows he's whiffed a landing aerial or is caught in the middle of a tough trap. He sometimes Fairs aggressively to push an edge-guarding opponent back. He's not whiffing a ton of bad smash attacks or anything. Really, I think he's doing a lot of things that are safer than you think.
  
• He uses Nair really well, generally. This is not something I'm seeing a ton of Marths in Smash 4 use as well quite yet, though I think it will get there.
• He makes smarter decisions than you think, and a lot of this is underscored by a fundamentally pretty sound Marth. His timing and spacing are pretty real, and those offstage counters are covering one of the few offstage options Fox has, even if they look silly when nothing is challenging them. (You'll notice he doesn't do it quite as much in other matchups.) There are a few moments that made me grimace, like get-up attack into an already shielding Fox just to die to the Dsmash, but I just don't agree that he's some lucky dude that runs on instinct and happens to derp into a ton of hard reads against good opponents.
• That's the other thing - that Fox he's playing is *good*. I actually found that video better than his match with M2K, who honestly got too cute and played a worse Diddy than I've seen in FG. He makes noticeable mistakes, but this his him hanging quite well with an absurdly well played Fox (who I happen to consider a top 5 character right now - Fox is MUCH better than the masses have realized yet.)

I don't think I disagree about watching him to learn Marth overall, but I also think there are a thing or two from his videos so far that players will be able to pick up. Just not sure this assessment is fair.

I didn't say he was an unintelligent player, but I don't see him abusing higher level Marth stuff namely trap situations and transitions. idk maybe I need to watch more of his matches.

But as of right now if someone asked me who should they watch between Mr.E or say....Shaya? For learning the nuances of high level Marth, I would say Shaya.

 

[kj22]

Welcome to da smashboards~

Honestly this was an interesting set I kept thinking Mr.E would lose, but he adapted well to things whilst M2K didn't.
For a while there I genuinely believed M2K would win just by short hop auto cancelling fair over and over again, thinking to myself "lol lag + lol diddy is so stupid", but Eric (I'm pretty sure it's Eric) starting bopping that and M2K just ... kept going for it.

I think this springboards people's impressions on Marth a lot higher than before, and probably more than he deserves (kinda). Marth's EZ gimps on Diddy is pretty good for the match up (like jump off and counter lol tier), Fsmash is much easier to land in this game than Brawl, and honestly dolphin slash is still a good move (been a while since I did a spiel on a move, but I had this baby in mind ever since I saw Zucco's megaman use his up tilt successfully and thought to myself, well if he's getting these hits in successfully, than marth can too); but it's probably a lot better than it should be on wifi due to lag.

Game 3 m2k kept running into things, reminded me Brawl's WiFi lag haha. He failed at z catching his bananas as well, maybe he's not used to playing on WiFi? Idr him playing online in brawl.

Mr. E had some good fsmash reads ,but tbh games 1 and 2 m2k was pretty dominant.

I can't believe how lagless diddys fair is...and it has shield push back. Airdodge->iasa upair discourages chases in the air too lol.

Does drop off counter really work?

 

[Cubonebonebone]

Hey guys. I was wondering if you all could analyze a game I played with a Dedede today. I mained Marth in melee and I am trying to learn how to use him effectively in smash 4. I know I shouldn't have gotten hit by the Dedede's up b, that was just a stupid mistake. Also I think maybe I was fishing for the SB too much, but I would love input on my Marth and general play throughout the match. Also HUGE thanks to EternalFlame and Emblem Lord for their super helpful guides and posts. I tried to go for the dancing blade setup a couple of times, but I think I need to mix it up more. Thanks in advance!

 

[kj22]

Marth and Lucina are spacing-dependent characters, as Marth has always been. Your rolling costs you a lot in this video even though you don't see it, necessarily. At 0:57 you miss a d-smash and then instinctively rollback to avoid the punish, even though your opponent was in the corner of the stage. You need to seize stage control and keep it; don't back yourself into the corner. Giving up stage control is kind of like taking damage. Pretend to yourself that every time you move back toward a corner of the stage you're taking 3% damage. Then ask yourself if it's worth it to take 3% in this scenario to get away from your opponent. Sometimes, it will be, because there are no hard-and-fast rules in smash, but most of the time you'll find that standing your ground or just using walking spacing will be better for you.

solidsenseee are you stalking me back?(;

 

[NairWizard]

solidsenseee are you stalking me back?(;

I just take a look at topics which are at the top of their forums haha.

 

[kj22]

I just take a look at topics which are at the top of their forums haha.

mhhhmmm either way your presence is appreciated!

 

[Emblem Lord]

So, I saw a match of Mr.E vs Dabuz's Wario and wtf?

It was like watching NEO or Azen. The play style was COMPLETELY different. There were reads sure, but I saw a TON of well spaced moves, intelligent traps and just general....hero-kingliness.

Now im scratching my head. Mr.E is...weird.

 

[kj22]

Just watched it as well. Changed his playstyle to match his opponent

 

[Phoenon]

Took all the advice from this thread from last time, put in some time in training mode and had some For Glory matches, hope I'm looking a lot better than I was.

 

[Victor Coelho]

I was watching some of NEO matches too and he's trully awesome... altough i cannot even compare myself to him i need to throw my two cents (based on what i've studied on EmblemLord's guide.) I think he wiffs too much SH fair and nair and that kinda telegraphs where he can hit or control. That's something i try not to do =/

 

[Owangepuffs]

So, I saw a match of Mr.E vs Dabuz's Wario and wtf?

It was like watching NEO or Azen. The play style was COMPLETELY different. There were reads sure, but I saw a TON of well spaced moves, intelligent traps and just general....hero-kingliness.

Now im scratching my head. Mr.E is...weird.

Landing with dairs are still making me scratch my head. Regardless, his play against Wario was great.

Then Rosaluma happened.

 

[_Relapse_]

So, I saw a match of Mr.E vs Dabuz's Wario and wtf?

It was like watching NEO or Azen. The play style was COMPLETELY different. There were reads sure, but I saw a TON of well spaced moves, intelligent traps and just general....hero-kingliness.

Now im scratching my head. Mr.E is...weird.

Link to said match :

When is the next video @ Shaya

 

[Shaya]

Oh.

Well I'm at sky's house and I've had the opportunity to get destroyed by Tyrant/ZeRo's Diddy Kongs. Saving replays and going over them later is a lot harder now too and no tournaments from me yet.

Not sure of the best choice in this scenario. I wouldn't mind doing them again soon. I'm working on it (the match up) though, I guess it could be really beneficial to myself to record me getting destroyed and going over it; but yeah, no ez-mode 3ds replay saving, ****.

 

[Icyie]

Link to said match :

When is the next video @ Shaya

I watched this, the M2k video, and the Fox video, and I cannot for the life of me notice how he was playing differently. Anyone care to elaborate the better play and trap situations Mr. E was doing in the Wario fight? I'm a Marth main, currently trying to improve my play and make it safer.

 

[Random4811]

Hey guys. I was wondering if you all could analyze a game I played with a Dedede today. I mained Marth in melee and I am trying to learn how to use him effectively in smash 4. I know I shouldn't have gotten hit by the Dedede's up b, that was just a stupid mistake. Also I think maybe I was fishing for the SB too much, but I would love input on my Marth and general play throughout the match. Also HUGE thanks to EternalFlame and Emblem Lord for their super helpful guides and posts. I tried to go for the dancing blade setup a couple of times, but I think I need to mix it up more. Thanks in advance!

Good things: You have some good spacing, you are getting some good mileage out of dancing blade to dtilt, and that comeback was unexpected based on your first stock, that was a good turnaround on your part. Your shield breaker baited out attacks that you punished, so even if that wasnt your intention, you used it well too.

Bad things/advise: You are too aggressive. Remember, you need to maintain good spacing consistently. You are just charging in too much, and then you are using one of the worse options for that rush in. You might look into learning to foxtrot, because it makes it a little easier to dole out Fsmashes and ftilts out of dash. Also, walking is a viable option. You have an insane walking speed. Your pokes are super good, and you can use them all out of walk.

You also need to learn the hitboxes and usage for things. Upsmash is not a good move without a read. You are throwing it out willy nilly hoping DDD walks into your feet hitbox, I guess. Infact, where you were throwing it out would have been perfect for a Utilt. Its arcing motion /should/ have caught DDD the first time, mabye not the second time though. Utilt can be spammed a bit reminiscent of Fox's Utilt, but not as effectively.

Did you know you can reflect Gordos? Well, you can. Hit them. Any move, doesnt matter. Just bat them back at DDD. They do much more dmg and knockback when reflected. If your DDD foe is good, he might hit it back again, so you have to stay on your toes. Don't be afraid to counter it if the Gordo volleyball becomes too much, because it gets faster each time.

Speaking of, Counters are your best friend. Don't spam counter, but use it wisely. There are many a time in this video where you rolled away from DDD starting his jab, or just out of the way of a laggy, easy to counter attack. That Up B that killed you? You had plenty of time to counter. That counter would have killed DDD. I'd practice that.

You roll a bit excessively when you don't need to. Rolling messes up your spacing. You want to try to roll only when you need to. Remember, spot dodge is an option for single hit attacks, and grabs. Be careful with laggy grabs. Rolling will not save you on frame 1, so multihits will tend to eat you out of your roll when used against them. Remember, countering is your friend.

Also, shielding. Plenty of points you could have shielded DDD's jab and then retaliated. Learn to love your shield and your OoS options. Like, Dolphin Slash.

You roll a lot to try to reset spacing. However, when you roll, you leave your opponent unattended, allowing them to just close the gap again.You need to reset the in more ways then just rolling, though rolling is still an option that you should use sparingly. The easiest space tools are SHFF nair and grounded Dolphin slash.
Remember that Dolphin Slash has start-up invincibility. Use that to your advantage, its sweet spot is at the base. At high enough percents on ledge or off stage, it can even kill. It is a very viable spacing tool. Lets also not forget our BAE Dtilt.

So, on your SB I've noticed you seem unsure where to let it off. For example, at 0:36/7 you start a FH SB, land it, and then hold it as DDD approaches. Remember that once he is in your range, you can let it off. It has transcended priority, so it wont clash with anything. It is also rather quick to go out. If you would have let it out at 0:38, you would have probably landed it. I think it would have ended up being a trade, but DDD would have likely died. There are other points where you just seem to want to charge it up as high as you can before unleashing it. You need to break that habit. Shield or no, It is a good high damage poke. Let it off when the opponent is in range of the attack, preferably near the tip, and you'll probably get them before they get you. If they shield, you either cracked it or made them unable to utilize it temporarily. Both are good for you.

Other than that, work on your non-existant offstage play. Try and get your opponent into the air more as well. Marth is still an air shark. You have the tools to throw a large portion of the cast around, your disjoints tend to beat out their other aerials. If they don't know how to DI, or they DI into you, you basically get a free follow up. The power of holding twoards Marth is strong. Strong enough to create a "ken combo" near ledge. Some characters like Bowser are susceptible to FH double Fair at low-mid percents (dont remember exactly where) due to his weight and size. (And for Falcon mains, you can Knee him all the way across the stage. It is glorious.)

Definately mix it up more. Throwing out full dancing blades is still an option. I prefer the up variation as it kills and helps pops characters into the air, but the neutral variation can kill too. Keep that in mind. Mix it up with more Dtilts and SHFF nairs as well, and ofcourse the staple SH fair. Throw in some SH bair, bair is pretty good in this game.

You are pretty good, especially for someone just starting to learn. Watch more of the videos here and read the critiques on them to see what others are doing right and wrong.

 

[Cubonebonebone]

Good things: You have some good spacing, you are getting some good mileage out of dancing blade to dtilt, and that comeback was unexpected based on your first stock, that was a good turnaround on your part. Your shield breaker baited out attacks that you punished, so even if that wasnt your intention, you used it well too.

Bad things/advise: You are too aggressive. Remember, you need to maintain good spacing consistently. You are just charging in too much, and then you are using one of the worse options for that rush in. You might look into learning to foxtrot, because it makes it a little easier to dole out Fsmashes and ftilts out of dash. Also, walking is a viable option. You have an insane walking speed. Your pokes are super good, and you can use them all out of walk.

You also need to learn the hitboxes and usage for things. Upsmash is not a good move without a read. You are throwing it out willy nilly hoping DDD walks into your feet hitbox, I guess. Infact, where you were throwing it out would have been perfect for a Utilt. Its arcing motion /should/ have caught DDD the first time, mabye not the second time though. Utilt can be spammed a bit reminiscent of Fox's Utilt, but not as effectively.

Did you know you can reflect Gordos? Well, you can. Hit them. Any move, doesnt matter. Just bat them back at DDD. They do much more dmg and knockback when reflected. If your DDD foe is good, he might hit it back again, so you have to stay on your toes. Don't be afraid to counter it if the Gordo volleyball becomes too much, because it gets faster each time.

Speaking of, Counters are your best friend. Don't spam counter, but use it wisely. There are many a time in this video where you rolled away from DDD starting his jab, or just out of the way of a laggy, easy to counter attack. That Up B that killed you? You had plenty of time to counter. That counter would have killed DDD. I'd practice that.

You roll a bit excessively when you don't need to. Rolling messes up your spacing. You want to try to roll only when you need to. Remember, spot dodge is an option for single hit attacks, and grabs. Be careful with laggy grabs. Rolling will not save you on frame 1, so multihits will tend to eat you out of your roll when used against them. Remember, countering is your friend.

Also, shielding. Plenty of points you could have shielded DDD's jab and then retaliated. Learn to love your shield and your OoS options. Like, Dolphin Slash.

You roll a lot to try to reset spacing. However, when you roll, you leave your opponent unattended, allowing them to just close the gap again.You need to reset the in more ways then just rolling, though rolling is still an option that you should use sparingly. The easiest space tools are SHFF nair and grounded Dolphin slash.
Remember that Dolphin Slash has start-up invincibility. Use that to your advantage, its sweet spot is at the base. At high enough percents on ledge or off stage, it can even kill. It is a very viable spacing tool. Lets also not forget our BAE Dtilt.

So, on your SB I've noticed you seem unsure where to let it off. For example, at 0:36/7 you start a FH SB, land it, and then hold it as DDD approaches. Remember that once he is in your range, you can let it off. It has transcended priority, so it wont clash with anything. It is also rather quick to go out. If you would have let it out at 0:38, you would have probably landed it. I think it would have ended up being a trade, but DDD would have likely died. There are other points where you just seem to want to charge it up as high as you can before unleashing it. You need to break that habit. Shield or no, It is a good high damage poke. Let it off when the opponent is in range of the attack, preferably near the tip, and you'll probably get them before they get you. If they shield, you either cracked it or made them unable to utilize it temporarily. Both are good for you.

Other than that, work on your non-existant offstage play. Try and get your opponent into the air more as well. Marth is still an air shark. You have the tools to throw a large portion of the cast around, your disjoints tend to beat out their other aerials. If they don't know how to DI, or they DI into you, you basically get a free follow up. The power of holding twoards Marth is strong. Strong enough to create a "ken combo" near ledge. Some characters like Bowser are susceptible to FH double Fair at low-mid percents (dont remember exactly where) due to his weight and size. (And for Falcon mains, you can Knee him all the way across the stage. It is glorious.)

Definately mix it up more. Throwing out full dancing blades is still an option. I prefer the up variation as it kills and helps pops characters into the air, but the neutral variation can kill too. Keep that in mind. Mix it up with more Dtilts and SHFF nairs as well, and ofcourse the staple SH fair. Throw in some SH bair, bair is pretty good in this game.

You are pretty good, especially for someone just starting to learn. Watch more of the videos here and read the critiques on them to see what others are doing right and wrong.

Sweet, thanks for the in depth responce, I'm sure it will help boatloads. I actually played 1fow1 on his stream and he told me a lot of similar things about being too aggressive and rolling and what not. I did know that I could hit back Dedede's projectiles, just a tad too slow in this match. Will definitely look into all the things you noted on. Thanks again.

 

[Victor Coelho]

I have a feeling that marth/lucina are avanced characters. Spacing, pressuring and moving accordingly plays a huge part on those characters and this is something you just don't learn it in a few days, even if you're an oldshool fighting gamer, like me. I'm having a hard time learning Lucina, but the journey has been very fun =)

 

[Emblem Lord]

Dolphin Slash has no start-up invincibility.

 

[kj22]

Oh.

Well I'm at sky's house and I've had the opportunity to get destroyed by Tyrant/ZeRo's Diddy Kongs. Saving replays and going over them later is a lot harder now too and no tournaments from me yet.

Not sure of the best choice in this scenario. I wouldn't mind doing them again soon. I'm working on it (the match up) though, I guess it could be really beneficial to myself to record me getting destroyed and going over it; but yeah, no ez-mode 3ds replay saving, ****.

What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger(;

Howru playing that mu? A lot of hard zoning I'm presuming?

 

[Shaya]

What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger(;

Howru playing that mu? A lot of hard zoning I'm presuming?

Eh, I almost feel like I need a secondary for Sheik/Diddy, but I can't properly come to the conclusion yet without moar practise.
Hard to find characters that seem to gel/flow well, I really am just a Marth player at heart, not many characters play similar and the will to put work into other characters is so low, BLAH.

Keep hovering over the sheik icon but then I think about forward smash/shield breaker tipper.

 

[kj22]

Was watching a marth lose to a ganon and learned something...

Db as a landing option to beat grabs. Not really beat, but hit them out of their grab. Since Marth's aerials all have atrocious landing lag need the ground, aerial db1 may be his saving grace to getting out of landing traps.
There's also the classic db1 stall anx b-reverse shield breaker.

Eh, I almost feel like I need a secondary for Sheik/Diddy, but I can't properly come to the conclusion yet without moar practise.
Hard to find characters that seem to gel/flow well, I really am just a Marth player at heart, not many characters play similar and the will to put work into other characters is so low, BLAH.

Keep hovering over the sheik icon but then I think about forward smash/shield breaker tipper.

Have you tried out ike/shulk/pit/dark pit? It doesn't stink that you may not be able to go your main vs those characters, especially with the amount of work you've put into marth.

And if marth had auto cancels the my wouldn't be that bad, wall diddy out with fairs/apply pressure with Nair/fair while approaching. Marth would actually flow.


Side note--did you watch the toad to tgc 2? Megafox put in a lot of work, vs diddies to boot. Makes me wonder how fox vs marth will play out, as fox has EXTREMEMLY good mobility and an amazing short and full hop and fox trot to bait things, and any character that's can bait out reactions from marth generally does well (in this game for sure)
Watching him has reinforced my mindset of more empty hops/walking as marth to control space rather than retreating fairs. Spacing to hit rather then spacing to whiff is another change, as Marth's aerials are not really that safe on whiff anymore imo, which goes back to the more empty hop mindset to threaten without the commitment.

 

[Emblem Lord]

lol I said that like day 3.

You want to hit their shield or your opponent. Whiffing is bad with Marth in this game. I know it goes against habits we have built for years, but your win rate will improve dramatically if you walk and empty hop more for spacing and only hit buttons when you think they will get hit or to poke at their shield.

 

[kj22]

lol I said that like day 3.

You want to hit their shield or your opponent. Whiffing is bad with Marth in this game. I know it goes against habits we have built for years, but your win rate will improve dramatically if you walk and empty hop more for spacing and only hit buttons when you think they will get hit or to poke at their shield.

You have that future sight.
I'll keep that in mind when I play the game again.

 

[kro_]

never mind

 

[Wilyen]

i'm surprised no one posted this. here is a video of zero playing marth.

 

[Wilyen]

i'm new here, literally just joined. so i don't know what the rule is about double posting. sorry in advance.

here is a video by Super Mario's channel that compares smash 4 marth to brawl marth

 

[Loachy]

I do miss his Counter lines...
Worst nerf imho

 

[BatShark]

So, a handful of recent random FGs I decided to upload. Couple wins and a loss, tried to just go for some matches that I felt were decently close and a fair representation of my current Marth, who I picked up probably a week or two ago. Didn't main him in any other games, which I think might be an asset in some ways, but I'm clearly adjusting to a less aggressive playstyle and trying to rely on some more well-informed reads and safer punishes.

Forgive the quality and occasional jankiness, obviously not a legitimate capture setup. (The last two actually have higher quality settings.)

An okay Shulk here, I get kind of destroyed by his side smashes (27% uncharged in the right stance is absolutely absurd) and a few counters (I know his last forever but I still find myself underestimating it now and again).

Me getting destroyed by a pretty real Fox. Those jabs, those Usmashes. A few DB input ****ups here, for some reason my timing on getting those out quick is the first thing to get ****ed up in any amount of lag, so I could have made some more out of those.

Clearly some spacing issues against this Mario, though I'm kind of baffled that a few of those whiffed instead of tipped. Maybe just overestimating Mario's height or sword graphic.

My general critical thoughts about my game right now:

• Less rushdown, more patient selections.
• Implement Nair and Utilt better, which are at times non-existent in my play. I know Nair is a superior option to Fair on rising opponents and to wall people out over a slightly longer period, but often I just get tunneled into Fair spacing that I don't use those tools as well as I could.
• Far too many silly Usmash attempts, and slightly too many silly sidesmash attempts.
• I need to figure out what to do better against opponents on the ledge. I think I maintain stage control well but the rewards seem to be offstage, I'm not maximizing opportunities from them on the ledge because of baffling smash attack habits.

 

[Phoenon]

I do miss his Counter lines...
Worst nerf imho

SOKODA
SASERUMONOKA
MIKITTA

 

[GREGORE]

Just a new Video of my Marth (I will get my Video Capture Card in 2 weeks)

 

[H-O-G]

I have a few videos to post wit me vs a shiek as well wen I post them i would like them reviewed. I feel u hav 2 aggressive vs shiek