Help! I can't beat my friend's Pikachu OR Marth

[Blue Flash]

No, its not the same scrub that demands I use items. I found someone better than him...and better than me.

We use: No items, Final Destination, 3 Stock, 8 Minutes

Pikachu- As you know, I hardly use Specials as Kirby. His Pikachu is like impossible to grab. Even my pivot grabs don't do much good. When I use Inhale, he quacks right AROUND IT then punishes it. When I use Stone, Thunder hits before I can get invinsibility frames. Final Cutter works for a while(kinda limits his approaches), but then it gets predictable. I use tilts to get him away from me, but then he gets in my face. He uses quack quite a bit, and it limits what I can do to him(what attacks stop QUACK?). Thunderjolt hits me even if I shield, but then if I dodge it, he punishes me. When I'm recovering, I'm actually forced to do it UNDER THE STAGE because of his good edgeguarding skills and his ability to punish Airdodges. I don't have a problem with Skull Bash, but then, he only uses it as a recovery. I can Kirbycide, but that doesn't always work.

I'll write the Marth problem later.

 

[A1lion835]

Okay...pika...

I'm just gonna say this guy is extremely better than you. The things you say about him seem a bit unrealistic, but whatever.

Look, there are a bunch of Captain Falcons I play who beat me on a regular basis. It's just because they're better than me. However, I do have some advice:

- Bair cancels thunder jolt

- If you can't use stone without being hit, don't use it

- since he manages to always avoid inhale, maybe you could try something like just pressing b, then utilting when he's behind you.

- You are the offstage king. Not him. you have multi-jumps. He has to return after just one jump. If you have to, just eat him whenever he tries to edguard you until he stops.

As for marth, you won't be able to beat a good marth until you start to know their playstyle a bit and can predict a lot of their moves.

 

[Blue Flash]

Thanks for helping. Maybe I just need to get better. But the only "practice" I get is my little cousins, and they SUCK.

 

[A1lion835]

Thanks for helping. Maybe I just need to get better. But the only "practice" I get is my little cousins, and they SUCK.

Do wifi then. If you can't do it, make it so you can. If you "don't do wifi", start doing it.

 

[Blue Flash]

Speaking of which, I found my WEP Key. Problem? My mom doesn't want me Brawling with people I don't know(which doesn't make sense). She also heard about online lag and doesn't want my Wii to catch a virus.

There was more, but I forgot the rest.

 

[TechnoMonster]

Rofl wii virus.

ROFL.















>.> rofl

Anyways, I play against Z a lot (17th at BIO2, beat Valdens), and Pika is just one of those matchups that you have to master the spacing and the timings and know your situations. It sounds like a lot, but most of it comes pretty naturally after awhile. Pika's moves are generally similar to Kirby's, with a little less priority on physical and a little more on electric, and slightly faster, and he has much more mobility on the ground, and can quickly attack in the air with good variety and range. On the other side, Kirby has better grab combos and does much more raw damage. The match is all about reading, avoiding getting killed, punishing and pressuring. Here's a quick rundown of how you can handle common moves for ideas.

SH aerials: Unspaced, they're easy to shieldgrab, and you can dashgrab out of shield any spaced aerial. Kirby can also beat any SH aerial with a retreating b-air and if they are spacing at the tippy-tip, you can call one, SH jump back and hammer.

FH Aerials: Pika can do a rising N-air or U-air and hit Kirby on the ground, followed by whatever. You can't effectively punish them, sorry. If he's at 100%+, you can gamble afterward by just U-smashing. If the QAC away, quickly move to reset your spacing.

QAC approach is a butt, just know what followups you can punish if you shield it. Oftentimes you can just jump out of shield and U-air for a free 10%, and afterwards they'll have no 2nd jump so sometimes you can line up a f-smash on their landing frames ftw. Note that after a QAC, they retain their up-B lag on landing, which is hella good for you.

Jolt: If Pika is too close or approaching with it, you can B-air straight through Jolt and hit him. Otherwise you have a variety of options (sheilding/powershielding/jumping), but B-airing and resetting your spacing usually offers good options.

Thunder: You never have to get hit by this move if you get used to airdodging in reaction to the sound, and even moreso by DI-ing vertical launchers to one side or the other.

Grabs: Downtilts and paying attention

Downtilt: SH aerials go over the top, jump and D-air for hax.

 

[momochuu]

Take stuff like this to the FAQ/Q and A thread next time please.

Oh yeah, about your problem. Well, Pikachu has a little more range than you, so you'll have to learn to space yourself better.

QAC isn't actually that great for attacking. It just sounds a little like your punishing game isn't that great. BAir can go through his Jolts IIRC, and to get through Jolt spam, just walk/run then powershield. If the edgeguarding with Thunder is getting you, just airdodge forward back onto the stage. @_@ Kirby beats Pikachu offstage as well, so I assume Thunder might be your problem.

It just sounds like your friend is better than you skill-wise if anything like A1lion said.

Edit: Uhh...Techno's post is pretty much what I just said. xD Just listen to what he said. :X

 

[fromundaman]

Quick comments:

While what you guys said is true, doesn't Bair kind of stop QAC approaches too?

As for getting his power (which will help a lot), I find Dthrow>inhale tends to work, though the opponent will wise up to it if you get too predictable with it.

Kirby's jolts **** the **** out of Pika's and force him to approach normally, since they also stop QAC.


And on an unrelated note: Playing just FD is going to get you ***** if you ever go to tournies. There are a lot more starter stages, and not knowing CPs will hurt you even worse.

Oh, and Wii virus... lol...
Nobody cares enough to make Wii viruses

 

[Blue Flash]

A Wii virus IS pretty stupid, isn't it? Mothers don't know anything about game systems. Even if my Wii were to catch a virus, it wouldn't be from playing online, it would be from downloads.

What if I counterpick Corneria? I thought of Battlefield, but Thunder is a *****.

 

[Blue Flash]

A Wii virus IS pretty stupid, right? Mothers don't know a thing about game systems. I've already tried to convince her for the millionth time that there is NO WII VIRUS.

Thanks for the help, guys. I think he's just better than me, especially considering the KirbyPika matchup is even. Unfortunately, I get no good practice whatsoever.

 

[Blue Flash]

Stupid double post. Can someone delete the one 2 posts above, and this one too?

 

[Pink murder]

The air is your territory, so i'd approach from there ^^. I think a skilled pika can dodge a gonzo combo, so i'd use Dthrow into Utilt combo's. I find that Dthrow > Utilt> spotdodge> inhale is actually a pretty good way to inhale your opponent. I'd definitely get pikachu inside me no matter what, your thunderbolts can easily beat his because of kirby's mobility. But be careful, you can always get predicted and punished. Id never use stone against thunder, his is faster and you're simply going to get hit. Unless you predict a thunder and start the stone animation before he starts his thunder animation, don't do it. I actually find thunder easy to dodge. I mean, its bluntly obvious when he's going to do it, and a you can dodge it with a well timed air dodge.

Cornia... cornia... isn't that the melee fox stage? If it is, are you crazy? xD If you thought pika's thunder was a ***** on battlefield, then i'm sure that cornia's even lower ceiling is going to give you trouble

 

[Blue Flash]

Thanks for helping, Pink murder. What stages CAN I counterpick? I think the Pikmin Stage(forgot the name) would be good, but I hate every single song on there. Especially World Map Pikmin 2(which always seems to play everytime someone else chooses it) and Environmental Noises. I'm not that good if a song I hate is playing.

 

[fromundaman]

Okay, first things first: Kirby NEVER EVER picks Corneria of his own volition. EVER!

If you're in the magnifying glass on the top and Pika is under you or trying to get under you, stone. They aren't used to being punished in that situation, so it'll usually hit. Don't do it if he's already started thunder though.

Pink, you want Pikachu inside you no matter what?

 

[Asdioh]

manage to Inhale him and copy his power. Pretty important.

If you're having trouble grabbing, then don't try to do it, only grab when you see an obvious opportunity arise.

Use aerials more, this is where Kirby excels in this matchup. Watch out for the high priority on Pikachu's Fair, but otherwise, your Bair is a good choice.

Gimping Pikachu is tough, but try to Bair him. Fsmash is your most reliable KO move in this situation :/

 

[Sky`]

I think that Marth VS Kirby is 50/50.
It's just like...
I dunno.

If you outspace him, it's pretty much GGz. :3

 

[TechnoMonster]

Marth has a clean advantage over Kirby, in that Marth really can just do Marth stuff all day, and Kirby needs to know the matchup and the player. Kirby has a lot of options (b-air) against advancing Marth, but retreating Marth is pretty much impossible, and a good Marth's rushdown is hard to beats.

 

[A1lion835]

I can sort of see your logic, Sky, but no.

The only way the matchup is even is if you've played that marth so many times that you can predict almost exactly what he'll do every single time. And if he can't do the same to you. But that's basically saying "If you come into the matchup with the advantage, the matchup is neutral." Hence why I say 60-40.

 

[Xiivi]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=205797